8659 réponses à ce sujet

[Will Doherty]

imgur.com/zwEfr

This sums it up

http://imgur.com/zwEfr

Modifié par Will Doherty, 23 février 2011 - 10:28 .

[Garak2]

crel wrote...

 This has been covered before, seems to be one of the more common complaints among the PC-format users, but the camera zoom range in the demo is really terrible. I both can not zoom out enough during combat and also can not get the directly over the shoulder view that actually lets me see where I'm going when not in combat. Having spent most of DAO in one of these two views, I will be extremely disappointed if we're stuck with the demo's camera restrictions in the actual game.

Here is what I think happened.

With DAO it was well known the the PC version was superior so to avoid that with DA2 they decided to give the PC users a console camera knowing that it would be harder to use on the PC that it would be on a console (unless the PC version has controller support, which I doubt).

Now, the PC version will no longer be superior. I could be wrong though, I am just guessing about their motivations but they had to know long before now that the mouse cannot be manipulated as fast as the right analog stick considering that you also have to hold right click. I am making an assumption that the right analog stick controls the camera on the consoles.

[WuWeiWu]

The OP of another thread posted this in response in that original thread - I felt the OP should have gone here, and as such, am making my reply here as it is relevant to the discussion of demo feedback.

I apologize for bringing up, "LULZKK DFINE DA2 N RPG?" but it is relevant for my feedback of the demo.

Perjorative wrote...

Apologies for missing the demo thread -- I posted hurriedly and didn't see it.

With all due respect, I'm not an elitist. I don't object to other genres of game being made, but I'd just like the classical-type RPGs to stay like that. We don't get many per year; in fact, I'd say  we get   less than 5 most years. I don't mind ARPGs, and quite enjoy them sometimes -- I just want a classical RPG series to stay like that.

Hey: I'm not an elitist, but here's me being an elitist.

Not to call you out, but damn - I couldn't help myself. I don't miss the overhead view as it was clunky and immersion breaking. I prefer first-person, but third-person expanded works well enough for me. You aren't a god directing your party these days (read: you aren't the DM), you are the character being played.

This type of change was inevitable. In previous games, you had some attachment to the character as the character but the main emotional attachment was of the group being directed through a story arc by you. You wanted to continue for the story and how your group went through it, not for the character(s) themselves.

With Dragon Age: Origins we had a bit of an identity crisis: am I, the game, an olden story-driven RPG where I want the players to play, however minorly, the part of the DM; or am I the character-driven novel-like RPG where I want the players to play a characterization through my (the games) characters and story?

Dragon Age 2 actually falls on one side of that coin rather than balancing precariously, and previously successfully, on it's edge. To clarify: Dragon Age: Origins wasn't successful because it balanced on that aforementioned edge, it was successful because it was a good game despite being balanced on that edge.

DA2 appears to forego the feel of you controlling a character or group of characters so much as you are the character. No top-down views, no detachment. To keep things straight, the mechanics of DA:O were that of a D&D styled game - you assumed some of the roles of the Dungeon Master. The story of DA:O was that of an ARPG or a novel or... et cetera where you assumed the persona of the character (that you wanted to play); the result of mixing the two was a character-driven game with mechanics that did not support it.

The question now to ask is if the divulgence from  that olden-D&D core ethos, that twist towards the ARPG path, affects the gameplay of DA2. I would argue that it certainly changes the feel of the game and by that I mean the emphasis of the game, and in my opinion that's not a bad thing, but does it change the actual gameplay? I would argue that it does not. DA2 will still be an RPG-strategy game at heart on the higher difficulties, just the mechanics will be a lot more true to it's purpose - which is that of a character-driven RPG.

My one point of contention there is the attack animations - they serve the purpose for the 'legend' portions of the game, but in the 'truthful' parts of the game? I feel they are just slightly too fast and/or extreme.

I loved the demo. It was too short for my tastes (hah! full game naaoooww), but I enjoyed playing through as every role at least once. The game - not just the characters or the story or the mechanics or the blah blah blah but the entire game - resonated with me in a way DA:O did not. In DA:O the story and the characters (even my character) felt true to the game, and the mechanics did not. Thus far, from what I've seen and now played of DA2, I look forward to concluding that Dragon Age 2 was true to itself, in every way.

Modifié par WuWeiWu, 23 février 2011 - 10:29 .

[Nilbog79]

It was better than I thought t would be, but still not that great really

I was able to ignore the mage combat animations, but the rogues were too much. Battles feel unnecesarily fast, everyone constantly charging around like they're on steroids. Combat is still fairly tactical, but lack of friendly fire really simplifies things, main challenge now seems to be in keeping enemies away from mages, they'll do the rest with aoe spells. I guess Nightmare is the only option now.

It's worrying though that there's hardly anything except for combat in the demo. Even the death of your own sibling is "That's really sad but we have to go now, more darkspawn to kill". The Lothering level is one long corridor. While this is probably understandable in the prologue, the second mission is the same, immediately you get charged by lots of bad guys, you loot the first one and immediately have to run to the Chantry where you can either talk a little bit and fight lots more bad guys or skip the talking and fight straight away.

I've somewhat warmed up to the MHawke VA, he sounds enjoyably smug. He probably works best with the funny responses, Renegade responses work well too. Still, I'd expect the protagonist to be more charismatic.

None of the characters in the demo apart from Flemeth and maybe Varric are even remotely interesting, maybe also Wesley the templar, but he dies almost immediately. Isabella is obviously only there for the benefit of teenage boys. I don't know, it almost seems like the devs' heart wasn't in it when they were making this game. Based on what I've seen so far, this game is nowhere near the level of DAO.

[Morroian]

Galenwolf wrote...

RPGs at their core are about story and the player using their choices to move the story along.  Bioware seems to understand this very well, and are evolving that priniciple with making choices throughout a series matter by having us import our old choices which then effect the next chapter of a story.

This. Excellent comment.

And it ties in with a comment I heard on another gaming forum (QT3), which was about ME2 but applies to DA2 as well. Which was that ME2 was a distillation of a Bioware game down to what Bioware considered the essential components of a Bioware game, which are story, character development/role playing, characterisation and character interaction. DA2 looks to be to get the balance even better, almost right. I still think there should be a few tweaks here and there, such as greater choice in customisation, but on the whole I think they're going in the right direction. 

Modifié par Morroian, 23 février 2011 - 10:35 .

[Perjorative]

The 'no silent protagonist' fact was rather painful to deal with. I can appreciate it's not a popular design choice these days, but I rather liked being able to imbue my characters with a personality I created, rather than having a voice forced upon me.



The graphics also seemed somehow ... lacking. Origins fireballs, for example, *looked* good. (okay, I never played on anything but tactical camera, so can't comment about the action camera) The DA2 fireballs seemed somehow lacking in power in comparison. Equally, the cone of cold effect didn't have the look it did in Origins. Perhaps it's just that I could easily imagine the Origins spell effect having 'Wizard 5: Evocation' attached to it. Winter's Grasp also looked feeble -- rather than ice erupting from the floor, the effect seemed rather bland.



The combat flourishes also seemed overly long. I can appreciate that sync kills look nice, but they seemed .. overdone here. Perhaps they happened too often, or they were too long -- I can't exactly put my finger on it, but the combat turned me off hugely. I did notice, however, that my warrior (not that I paid much attention to him) was doing such things considerably less than my mage was, or perhaps his animations were simply less flashy and obtrusive.



Graphically, it was much improved, but then again, I did rather like the original's graphics. At least, I had no complaints, and didn't really understand the criticism you guys got over them.



That first ogre in the very first fight was pitifully easy. I can understand the conceit of the DA2 story being related by someone else and therefore being exaggerated in the telling, but I feel the 300-style combat, while 'epic', isn't particularly suited to your strengths as game designers. When, for example, my warrior was surrounded, I found it quite difficult to tell the NPCs apart -- it was all too visually noisy for my tastes. I couldn't zoom out far enough from my main character to be able to get a good overview of battle, which I feel is *absolutely* necessary in this sort of game. Returning to the ogre, I can understand *why* the battle was easy -- but I still remember the first ogre in DA1, which stomped me flat several times before I worked out how to take it down. Even then, it wasn't a safe fight, and I had to be wary constantly. This new more flashy combat style has the side effect of making combat less visceral and dangerous as there's less threat of failure. Perhaps it's just that it was on normal, but I didn't have to pause once, whereas in DA:O I was pausing in combat all through the tutorial and, in fact, still do so when replaying now.



So yeah, I'm very disappointed. If you'd have just released this game as "Rise to Power", I wouldn't have been vexed. If it were simply another game in the Dragon Age universe, I'd also have no complaints -- it's just the fact you called it DA2 while removing the silent protagonist and the full isometric view. I rather enjoy ARPGs and action games, and I'm not trumpeting the old-school RPG as superior to either of these genres-- it's just that it's my preferred genre and one that's sadly neglected these days, so it's a little depressing to see a much-loved formula tinkered with in such a way.



The dialogue wheel -- I see the point of it, and before I played it I didn't see it as such a problem. However, having a brief summary of what my character's about to say just isn't the same as having the entire line of dialogue previewed for me. It seems somehow like a loss of control -- like I'm merely *guiding* my character or suggesting possible courses of action rather than dictating exactly what he or she says. In the ME series, too, I distinctly remember having my responses occasionally (not often, admittedly, but enough to be memorable and irritating) be very different in their implications to what the short summary would suggest Shepherd was about to say.



It isn't that I don't *like* that sort of system -- I feel it worked very well in the ME series. I'd just prefer it if it wasn't in the Dragon Age games, for the reasons given above. In the ME series, you play Shepherd -- sure, you can customise them so they become *your* Shepherd, but they're still a pregenerated character with a preset story arc. The beauty of Dragon Age, however, and classical RPGs in general (again, not saying they're *better* games, just different, for different tastes) is that your character is your own.

[Elysium-Fic]

AlekNovy wrote...

I think its more about insecurity among female gamers, than gripes about "realism". Its not like every female character looks like that... Only some. And that's true in real life.

Ahh, the obligatory male paternalistic psycho-analysis of the female mindset. How refreshing.

Size G cup here. No insecurities whatsoever. I just have no interest in being bashed in the face by cartoon boobs every time my PC turns around, especially since it makes me feel like I'm a second-class citizen where the target audience of the game is concerned.

When I see stuff like that, it tells me the game was made for the younger male demographic, and the female audience was an afterthought, at best.

I'll happily retract these assertions if the game itself turns out to be loaded chock full of gratuitous close-up shots of Sebastian's bulging codpiece and taut, flexing buttocks, however. I mean, fair's fair, right? So where's my eye-candy?

[kwinia]

Will Doherty wrote...

imgur.com/zwEfr

:lol:

[Magus_42]

I've pre-ordered the PC game, as that's my preferred RPG platform, but I downloaded the PS3 demo just for kicks. My experience playing a warrior is that you hit the X button an awful lot, to no effect, and occasional get to do something when the recharge bars fill up on your other abilities. It had neither the depth of an RPG nor the fun of an action game. Loading was very jerky, even though it was loading off the hard drive, not the blue ray. Oh, and then, when I got to the fight in the Chantry, it hung my console and I quit. So, not really a good experience.



I found the opening of the game to be very unappealing. I found the mudhole level completely unappealing, and a poor place to become immersed in the game world. Characters entered and left the story with supposed dramatic impact, but the pacing of the situation gave me no chance to get to know them, so I didn't care. Any of the origins from the last game serve as a better prologue than this mission.



I'm hoping that the PC interface suits my tastes better. I still think there's potential here.



Oh, a couple notes on the console interface if any devs see this and want some feedback. For some reason, I was completely stumped the first time the dialog wheel came up. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to make a selection. Thought this was a bug at first. I think I expected the game to highly a default selection, and to use up/down to select, and left/right to switch sides of the wheel. Using the stick to point was not expected. Maybe a little tutorial animation on the first dialog would help users figure it out. Or maybe it was just me. On the other hand, I found the way spell targeting was handled for mages *the auto-pause effect) to be absolutely brilliant.

[LordPaul256]

Hmmm... Appears to be a lot of very angry and very happy yet dismissive people.  My opinion based on having just played the game 30 minutes ago:

--Not a fan of the Darkspawn changed.  They dance around like the monkey from The Wizard of Oz, and it really drew me out of the game.  Preferred their old look.  I'm having a hard time taking them seriously.

--Combat is way too fast.  I wanted to try a tank spec, and my character just stood there stabing like crazy.  It was like he was armed with a needle.  Very little damage, but he never died, because...

--Combining Cunning & blocking seems far too powerful in the demo. I always put enought points into each character's Cun to get block up to 50%, and no one died.  Ever.  It was actually kind of boring.

I know that seems like a lot of negatives, and some will just write my review of the demo off as someone who planned to hate the game, but as soon as I'm done writing this I'm going to go back and play with a new character.  I realize this is a demo, and from a several month old build, so I'm willing to give this a chance.  After all, BioWare has never done me wrong (though Jade Empire came close to being mediocre).

[Fynny]

just to add my 2 cents to the 150++ pages



personally, I am digging it. Very excited about the game, although I am still worried about the story and how our DAO choices will influence the DA2 game... plus hoping for the tying up of certain lose ends (Witch Hunt just added more questions!)



About the Demo (on XBox 360)... I play on a smaller tv so the writing is a little small for me, I foresee myself purchasing massive amounts of eye drops. I am impressed by the updated graphics and textures though. I know the game will look epic on PC, but being a console person I appreciate the jump from DAO to DA2 especially from what I've seen of the range of different faces on 'crowd' characters.



Also enjoying the new game play it's nice and fluid and the animations just look sexy. I play a rogue predominately and the demo is just making me itch to dual wield my way through the masses.



The one pet peeve I do have is one issue I don't think will ever be fixed, though I am not sure why. I hate being forced to play the demo as a dubbed version. If my preferred language is English I should be able to play the demo in English and not be forced to sit through a horrible dub. Don't get me wrong, the side characters voices are ok but Hawke sounds horrible in German. No emotions whatsoever.



I understand region codes and all that (though I personally think they are silly) but what prevents the added option to be able to play the game in the original language? I always end up having to order all my games from the UK because bad dubs ruin games (Mass Effect 2 is another example). I want to be able to go to the store on release day and just buy the game, not wait for the mail to arrive. It might sound like a trivial problem and to most people it probably is but really... why not give the game(s) a language option?



but again... pet peeve.. doubt it will change. good for UK sellers I guess.

[Frinklin]

I've now played through the demo both on my PC and my 360, and two things really stand out.



The first is how much faster the game moves than it did in DAO. It's almost too fast. It's certainly chaotic and I'm not sure that might get a little old playing on a PC. On the 360 it seems to make more sense. Might be the difference between a 17" laptop monitor and a 47" TV though too.



The other thing that gets me? What is up with Isabella's boobs? Did they use Mamie Van Doren as the body model for her? My wife burst out laughing at the first close-up of our favorite pirate.

[TheMake]

DA2 Darkspawn have "Mooks" stamped all over them in large glowing letters. They all look and move exactly the same, and are painfully easy to kill even in large groups pouring from all directions.



Do hope it's different on higher difficulties.



I guess the Hawke family was a one-of-a-kind in Lothering. Cos had half the town consisted of badasses like they are, they'd stop the whole Darkspawn incursion dead right there.

[Elysium-Fic]

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

Americans, for example, have no problem with gratuitous violence, but see some breasts, or worse, and they go into a religious fervour.

Who's in a religious ferver? I don't like the boobs because they are a powerful reminder that, as an audience, my demographic is an afterthought.

I have nothing against lots of gratuitous boobage... so long as we can also have gratuitous bulging codpieces.

[Mystique83]

I played the demo yesterday and I must say I am very disappointed.





I don't mind some changes in gameplay or combat system, but now after all the changes I can hardly recognize DA anymore. Nearly everything looks totally different.

Here are some points I really disliked:



1) the missing tactical view. I want to see all my party members during the fight.



2) the really ugly user interface. It looks like an action shooter interface to me



3) the dialogues are bad. Where are the emotions? For example, when Carver died all Hawke could say is „at least Dad is no longer alone“. They were much better in Origins I think.

Also the voice actors sound a bit strange sometimes...I can't identify with such a main character at all!! It is much worse than identifiying with the warden in DAO.

I also don't like the dialogue wheel.



4) The new look of the darkspawn is ugly.



5) The maps are too linear and too boring. Why is Lothering a wasteland now? Why are there no burning houses, for example?



6) The amount of blood in the battle is sometimes ridiculous.



7) The new graphic style is worse than in DAO. The eyes are very lifeless. And the clothes and hair looks like they are just painted on the characters



8) The faster combat is okay imo, but sometimes it is a bit too fast.



9) The cooldown of healing is too slow.



10) I think changing the skilltree is okay, but now I think there are a bit too few skills left.



Well, these are just some points why I feel disappointed about the demo.

I really loved DAO. For me it is one of the greatest games I have ever played.

Therefore I hoped DA2 will be as good as DAO, but after I played the demo I am sure now it won't be a good game for me. I preorderd the SE and I will play the game, but I have only few hope I will change my opinion.



I really hope Bioware will change some points of them for future games (DA3 maybe?). Otherwise I fear Bioware will lose a customer after DA2.



Anyway thank you, Bioware, for the demo to get a look on the game before its release.

[Frinklin]

As for everyone complaining about playing on a SDTV and how unreadable it is? BioWare announced that as of ME2, they aren't even considering non-HD screens when they program. They make sure it looks good in HD and then forget the rest. I played through ME2 on my SDTV and couldn't read anything.

[STiAT]

zazei wrote...
Jennifer Hale never sounded like a drone and managed to capture emotion while doing paragon, renegade or neutral choices without ever sounding like a totally different person. Sadly whoever did Lady Hawke seems to change her voice quite a lot between the three choices so the dialog doesn't sound as natural when changing between different choices like they did in Mass effect.

I've been using lady hawke, and it sometimes really is not realistic. Although, it seems to be the same speaker as it was for Morrigan, since if you give the funny answer at some point to Flemmeth, it is not just an answer Morrigan could have given, but she actually HAS given in DA1 and sounds exactly the same.

[TheMake]

MyNorthernSky wrote...

The other thing that gets me? What is up with Isabella's boobs? Did they use Mamie Van Doren as the body model for her? My wife burst out laughing at the first close-up of our favorite pirate.

You'd never hear me complain about that. 
More grautitious boobage plx!

[alizie]

Ok bareing the multiple crashes of the game once I got to character customization after the exaggarted part, I did manage to get it to work by running it on medium setting and as adminstrator and with v-synd off... (I certainly hope this is just a demo thing)



alright on to the demo itself then. Haveing now finished the demo afew times with all the classes I can safely say I was quite pleased by the demo overall.



The Good Things:

- The new combat is a great improvment over DA:O, it feels much more fluent and responsive now.

- The voiceovers seem very solid. Altough some dialog choices compared to the voiceover seem abit off but overall I thought they were very good.

-All 3 character types seem like great fun here, Altough as was the case in Origins I always found myself controlling the mage in the party the most (in this case Bethany had alot of use, Mages are cool you know!)

- you are no longer glowing like discoballs and flashing neon signs with all magic on after combat.



The Bad:

-the new UI dosnt seem that great,( the artwork for the UI itself seems worse then in Origins). Tactics system UI in particular seems bad when you have to click a small part in the corner of the rectangle for it to work.

-Some of the combat animations are abit to exagarrated for my taste(sword and board warrior spinning his sword every 5 seconds for example).

-The enviroments are abit dull and pure linearity where you can go (I know this is just a demo so I hope its better in the full game)





Overall if I ignore the fact of the performance issues with the demo (multiple crashes and lagging cutscenes that was only remedied after multiple tries) I would give this Demo an 8 out of 10.



*Now if only they could have keept things like you could equip your party with various outfits and gear in the full game etc (this is something that blizzard for example has understood is a HUGE incentive to play a game alot, get more items and equip, get even better items, and equip your characters to look like you want etc..) seems like this has gone in the direction of mass effect 2 wich is quite sad

[thebratterz]

Hey guys,



So after completing the demo, I decided to upload some gameplay to YouTube along with my thoughts on the demo so far.



That video can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/TheBratterz



I was a huge fan of Origins and I'm really excited for the release of DA2 next month. I thought the demo was very promising overall and apart from a couple of issues - it was the demo I was hoping for.



The storyline sounds like it will be rather epic and I love the fact that we will be seeing some of the characters from Origins reappear (Flemmeth looks bad ass!)



Anyhows, I'm still finding my feet within the YouTube gaming community... so any constructive feedback is very welcome indeed!



Let me know what you think :]



Chris (TheBratterz)

[cptncanuck]

Brilliat demo Bioware! I thoroughly enjoyed it, and the gameplay seems solid



One question though, will there ever be something explaing (in one word or as much) what the conversation icons/colours mean? For example, what is the purple diamond compared to the purple face?



Thanks!

[oxymoo28]

The breast argument again? Should that not be in a different thread, perhaps one about character appearance?



The graphics seem better on the console version, and whilst the combat was a bit too fast at the start on the second playthrough I had the hang of it.

I prefer the voiced protagonist and liked all the voice actors. I enjoyed the character interaction and personally CAN'T FREAKING WAIT for this game to come out.

[Elysium-Fic]

AlekNovy wrote...

[Or is everyone going off of Isabella? There were 5 female characters in the demo... Only isabella had the huge breasts.

Actually, no. Ma Hawke, Bethany, and Isabela all had extravagently large breasts, Cassandra was well-endowed, and only Aveline (you know, the homely one) had more realistic proportions.

[Morroian]

Ieldra2 wrote...

First impressions (PC demo):

(1) Combat is fun, but *way* too fast. Characters and enemies almost teleport across the screen. Fighting animations are ricidulous and tactics don't exist if you can't block enemies. Just the same as in DAO - the hordes can and will pass your warriors by to fall upon your mages. Most disappointing.  

Sounds like you didn't manage threat properly using Aveline. I managed to use it to prevent this from happening. As for tactics they are still required. Tactical play was required for the real ogre fight. On hard and nightmare the game shoul be very tactical.

Ieldra2 wrote...

(5) Graphics are very, very disappointing. Mostly because textures lack details and models are too low-res. I'm using the highest settings the demo lets me use (DX11, 1920x1200, high details) and it still looks like a five-year-old game. It doesn't bother me that much, but it is disappointing. I expected better from a game published in 2011.

Sorry but thats just not true. I played it on 1680x1050 with all other settings maxed out and it looked pretty good and ran fairly well on the whole, given the demo is not the final build it should be better and more optimised in the final game. The blightlands were ugly but the textures were great.

[KBomb]

Elysium-Fic wrote...


Who's in a religious ferver? I don't like the boobs because they are a powerful reminder that, as an audience, my demographic is an afterthought.

I have nothing against lots of gratuitous boobage... so long as we can also have gratuitous bulging codpieces.

To be fair, all of the men do have rippling six packs. Not the same thing--but still, that is eye candy. I think Bioware gives the girls a fair bit of eye candy and I think too many people make a big deal out of one character’s topside.