8659 réponses à ce sujet

[TrackerTrem]

The demo was dissapointing! And for any of you who think the combat is great, here's accordian cat!

[huwie]

A justification for the less realistic aspects (kung-fu style leaps and exploding enemies) is that this isn't supposed to portray reality, it's supposed to portray Varric's account of reality. The actual events might might well have looked much more mundane.  Obviously this justification isn't compatible with use of the engine for non-framed stories.

The same rationalisation could go for the potrayal of women in the game: it's not the designers catering to what they imagine their male audience wants, it's Varric spinning the story to match his personal preferences ! :-) I have to say that I wish he'd leaned more towards the more subtle end of the spectrum of female charms, but that's just me, and I will wait for the full game before judging.

With the above rationalisations in mind, I must say I'm concerned by what I've seen from the demo, which does suggest a change of emphasis away from thoughtful play and towards sound, fury and instant gratification. But I also know that the demo didn't showcase much in the way of story or character -- which is really the product I'm looking to buy. Bioware has delivered the goods consistently since BG in 1998, and while that doesn't give them infinite credit, it does mean I won't abandon them on the strength of one short demo.

Modifié par huwie, 24 février 2011 - 10:04 .

[kublakhan42]

I was staying away from DA2 coverage because I was afraid of the direction the game was going in. Unfortuntately, the demo has confirmed all my fears. Bioware used to be a producer of quality RPGs. But this game clearly is a mixture of an action game with some sort of interactive fiction, where both parts are designed BADLY.

Combat in the demo is so mindless that I couldn't even finish the thing. Click on a target to attack, spam some abilities if you like. The style is completely over-the-top: exploding enemies, a backstab ability that makes you disappear and pop up behind your target. Paradoxically, this 'fast-paced' and 'furious' combat style is implemented in such a fashion that taking down a single low-level enemy takes ages, i.e. your attacks do much too little damage in comparison to the average enemy's health, dragging out fights interminably. (The ogre was even worse. After my party and all other enemies had gone down, I spent a minute watching my character and the ogre slug it out.)

The cutscenes were uninspired, badly acted, and even (astonishingly for Bioware) badly written. The dialogue choice wheel just doesn't work for me. You can alternate between paragon and madman like a schizophreniac, without notable consequences.

So, judging from the demo, the game will be an alternating sequence of 'fast-paced' fighting in corridors and watching cut scenes advancing some supposedly 'epic' plot, with 'fast-paced' and 'epic' apparently being euphemisms for 'over-the-top in style and mindless in execution' and 'badly written and acted as well as horribly clichéd', respectively.

[Zeppeli]

rooky91 wrote...

Zeppeli wrote...

Sereaph502 wrote...

RPG: Role Playing Game

You take on the ROLE of Hawke. You decide how good/neutral/bad he/she is, you play through the game, deciding what quests to do and which not to do.

It seems to me that the people who are saying that DA2/ME2 aren't RPGs are the people who don't know what RPGs are. They want a game where they can make their own character, and have tons of dialog options. They didn't do their homework on what DA2 was going to be, so they're complaining about it.

It's not the game's fault you guys never read up on what the game was going to be about.

Now then, as for actual feedback instead of whining about how the game isn't like BG1/2, Icewind Dale, DA:O, etc? The combat feels good, but that's really all I can say...Locking most skill trees, the inventory system, character customization severely limits what the players can test.

Also, how do I know if I unlocked the blade? I finished the tutorial, and don't think I got disconnected...

In Monkey Islad i take the role of Guybrush... Monkey Island is an RPG... Or better: in Wing commander i take the role of Blair, i take decisions, those decisions lead to different path, so Wing Commander is an RPG...

And in these forums is appears you've taken to the role of being a Dick?

And RPG contains elements of choice and allows you to customize the character your playing as with stats and such.

Ehm so the character customization and stats make it an RPG, so Fifa 11 has stats and you can customize your football player, is it an RPG? I think you are a little confusion on it... You can't customize your character in DA 2 you are Hawke, so it is lesser rpg than Fifa?  


First, think of a D&D campaign, than ask yourself, it remembers DA 2? 

Think of it....

Modifié par Zeppeli, 24 février 2011 - 10:06 .

[sleepyowlet]

Sereaph502 wrote...

RPG: Role Playing Game

You take on the ROLE of Hawke. You decide how good/neutral/bad he/she is, you play through the game, deciding what quests to do and which not to do.

It seems to me that the people who are saying that DA2/ME2 aren't RPGs are the people who don't know what RPGs are. They want a game where they can make their own character, and have tons of dialog options. They didn't do their homework on what DA2 was going to be, so they're complaining about it.

It's not the game's fault you guys never read up on what the game was going to be about.

Now then, as for actual feedback instead of whining about how the game isn't like BG1/2, Icewind Dale, DA:O, etc? The combat feels good, but that's really all I can say...Locking most skill trees, the inventory system, character customization severely limits what the players can test.

Also, how do I know if I unlocked the blade? I finished the tutorial, and don't think I got disconnected...

Er... let's get back to the roots, yes? In a pen and paper RPG (and I've played those for years) you make up your own character within set rules and play it in a story the gamemaster tells. That is RPG. In DA:O I made up my own character, looks, and personality, and imaginative voice and all, and I played it. Within the boundaries of a PC game that was RPG.
To be settled with a Hawke, that hasn't got much of a backstory, has got a personality of their own and their own voice - for me that has no longer the RPG-feel. The player-character is the gamer's avatar in another world. Not that the PC necessarily does what you would do, but you decide how they act, react, talk and most importantly: feel. The voiced character and the dialogue-wheel take that away from me. I click on a couple of words next to an icon and sit back while this character is having a conversation that I feel I should have.

I don't think ME2 is a RPG. I tried it, and put it aside after an hour or so for exactly that reason. And, respectfully, I know what RPGs are. I've played AD&D, Shadowrun and Vampire the Masquerade. I've played the BG series, the NWN series, KOTOR 1+2 and tons of others.

I did my homework where DA2 is concerned - I've been following the news with sagging spirits for months. But I told myself, how bad can it be? Give it a chance. I played the demo and cried. Honestly. Because it really was that bad.

You enjoy the game as it is now - and I'm glad that you do (it *is* good to see that at least someone does). I just find myself unable to. DA2 is not really a successor to DA:O, it's something else entirely. It's like going to a shop and buying an apple. You eat the apple, and find that you enjoy it; so the next day you want to buy another apple and the shopkeeper gives you a pear; it's fruit too, after all. You try it and find that you don't enjoy it. That's how it was for me. I did not enjoy the DA2 pear.

[Zeppeli]

sleepyowlet wrote...

Sereaph502 wrote...

RPG: Role Playing Game

You take on the ROLE of Hawke. You decide how good/neutral/bad he/she is, you play through the game, deciding what quests to do and which not to do.

It seems to me that the people who are saying that DA2/ME2 aren't RPGs are the people who don't know what RPGs are. They want a game where they can make their own character, and have tons of dialog options. They didn't do their homework on what DA2 was going to be, so they're complaining about it.

It's not the game's fault you guys never read up on what the game was going to be about.

Now then, as for actual feedback instead of whining about how the game isn't like BG1/2, Icewind Dale, DA:O, etc? The combat feels good, but that's really all I can say...Locking most skill trees, the inventory system, character customization severely limits what the players can test.

Also, how do I know if I unlocked the blade? I finished the tutorial, and don't think I got disconnected...

Er... let's get back to the roots, yes? In a pen and paper RPG (and I've played those for years) you make up your own character within set rules and play it in a story the gamemaster tells. That is RPG. In DA:O I made up my own character, looks, and personality, and imaginative voice and all, and I played it. Within the boundaries of a PC game that was RPG.
To be settled with a Hawke, that hasn't got much of a backstory, has got a personality of their own and their own voice - for me that has no longer the RPG-feel. The player-character is the gamer's avatar in another world. Not that the PC necessarily does what you would do, but you decide how they act, react, talk and most importantly: feel. The voiced character and the dialogue-wheel take that away from me. I click on a couple of words next to an icon and sit back while this character is having a conversation that I feel I should have.

I don't think ME2 is a RPG. I tried it, and put it aside after an hour or so for exactly that reason. And, respectfully, I know what RPGs are. I've played AD&D, Shadowrun and Vampire the Masquerade. I've played the BG series, the NWN series, KOTOR 1+2 and tons of others.

I did my homework where DA2 is concerned - I've been following the news with sagging spirits for months. But I told myself, how bad can it be? Give it a chance. I played the demo and cried. Honestly. Because it really was that bad.

You enjoy the game as it is now - and I'm glad that you do (it *is* good to see that at least someone does). I just find myself unable to. DA2 is not really a successor to DA:O, it's something else entirely. It's like going to a shop and buying an apple. You eat the apple, and find that you enjoy it; so the next day you want to buy another apple and the shopkeeper gives you a pear; it's fruit too, after all. You try it and find that you don't enjoy it. That's how it was for me. I did not enjoy the DA2 pear.

Finally, a fellow rolepalyer...

[TrackerTrem]

Look guys it's Isabela! The main attraction of the game! So much for character development! She just shows up in a tavern!

[amirfoox]

Meh, defining a genre is counter-productive.

For me, an RPG is a good story, a good leveling system and combat which doesn't require the same amount of reflexes as a fast-paced FPS or RTS in order to succeed and enjoy.

For you, RPG may be something completely different. But that really doesn't matter a single thing, as RPG's, even pen and paper ones, crossed genres quite a while ago and are much more varied. Staying fixated on one, single, holy-grail RPG type is simply wrong and hurts you, the player, more than anything else, as you deny yourself from simply having fun based on technicalities.

Now, if you honestly don't have any fun from playing, that's something else, and quite unfortunate.

Modifié par amirfoox, 24 février 2011 - 10:19 .

[Aradace]

In all seriousness, Im enjoying all the changes so far. The only question left now, is whether or not there will be a NG+ option. If not, that means a total of 5 playthroughs before I sell it back to Gamestop. If yes, then it will most likely take over in my (black) little heart as my favorite game of all time, dethroning (it's a word now dammit if not before lol) Mass Effect 1 & 2.

[Yrkoon]

Avalastrius wrote...

I wonder why BioWare felt the need to treat us like geek children who have never seen a woman before. It is offensive, sexist and dowright stupid. Where is the maturity they are talking about?

It's amazing that they actually pay a team of writers to come up with large breasted women. I mean, really?

Where is the fragile, the emotive, the pale, the mysterious?

For God's sake, even Hawke's mother looks like the same as his sister, only with whiter hair. Can't you really make an old person to look like an old person?

Trully amazing, in this day and age, to see an RPG like that not looking trully convincing, beautiful and adventurous in its art style. This is an old school RPG. There are no A.I. systems running for the NPCs, there is no open world, there are no real weather effects, no day/night cycle, no NPCs going about their business to eat up resources.

Then why on earth don't we have amazing graphics? Why? What''s the excuse? There is no excuse.

Please BioWare, try to understand we are not children who want to look at Xena-look-alikes while we try to be immersed in a -supposedly- dark heroic fantasy story.

Sorry but you need to check Witcher 2 for some advice. This is going to steal all the thunder from DA2, and it seems deservedly so. 

Aha,  and the true motivation   shows itself at the very end.

Here we have a guy who created  an account here, just today,  for no reason but to ruffle feathers, and then advertize Witcher 2.  We won't even waste time pointing out the  dozen or so factual errors  that exist in this post of his.

But I will say one thing, and you can take it as an iron-clad promise:  Paybacks are coming,   Lets see how you and your little  Witcher-fan- boys feel  in a couple of months when WE decend upon the Witcher boards and bash it as a "turd", and its fans as "children", just like you have done here with DA2.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 février 2011 - 10:21 .

[Hylan Dronta]

I have played the demo on all 3 platforms. I am actually suprised that I decided to order the 360 version as Origins felt VERY clunky on the 360, but DA 2 actually felt very clunky on the PC (and no I wasn't lagging or anything, I have a rather high end PC). It just felt more natural on the consoles. I will admit the PC version did look prettier, but I play games more for the fun factor than the visuals.

Between PS3 and 360, it was a pretty close race. To the PS3's credit, the game did look slightly better. The reason I decided on the 360 version was mainly because of the controls. While very similar to the PS3, the 360 controls seemed rather natural, while the PS3's did not. The load times seemed smoother on the 360 as well, as on the PS3 version, the music seemed to skip a beat sometimes. It never lasted long, but it was there. I did notice some frame rate issues on both console versions, while it was absent on the PC. Although present on both consoles, it was far more noticeable on the PS3. I only noticed it once on the 360, and it was a very brief skip of a frame or two.

As for the demo itself, it solidified my decision to preorder. I found it very enjoyable. I can't wait til March 8th.

Modifié par Hylan Dronta, 24 février 2011 - 10:21 .

[Aradace]

Hylan Dronta wrote...

I have played the demo on all 3 platforms. I am actually suprised that I decided to order the 360 version as Origins felt VERY clunky on the 360, but DA 2 actually felt very clunky on the PC (and no I wasn't lagging or anything, I have a rather high end PC). It just felt more natural on the consoles. I will admit the PC version did look prettier, but I play games more for the fun factor than the visuals.

Between PS3 and 360, it was a pretty close race. To the PS3's credit, the game did look slightly better. The reason I decided on the 360 version was mainly because of the controls. While very similar to the PS3, the 360 controls seemed rather natural, while the PS3's did not. The load times seemed smoother on the 360 as well, as on the PS3 version, the music seemed to skip a beat sometimes. It never lasted long, but it was there. I did notice some frame rate issues on both console versions, while it was absent on the PC. Although present on both consoles, it was far more noticeable on the PS3. I only noticed it once on the 360, and it was a very brief skip of a frame or two.

As for the demo itself, it solidified my decision to preorder. I found it very enjoyable. I can't wait til March 8th.

We'd have went 360 ourselves but all our data from origins is on the PS3 version so was only logical for us to get DA2 on the PS3 as well.

[wildannie]

...I've already posted that like the demo and can't wait for the game...
but, the way f Hawke and Isabella moves was bugging me, kind of looks weird and put me in mind of a film. I couldn't find a clip so it may be my memory playing tricks but don't they kind of move like the alien lady with the pointy breasts in Mars Attacks? they glide.

Modifié par wildannie, 24 février 2011 - 10:24 .

[Lord Drakkul]

 Am I the only one here who finds it more than a little ridiculous that the DA:O extremists are calling foul on the difficulty of the combat of DA2 when:

1. The demo is on the Normal difficulty setting (which they said was meant to feel more action packed with little in the way of team management, but that higher difficulties would demand tactics and strategy to stand a chance), and

2. This is the beginning of the game, where generally most games ease new players into how to play. Notice the tutorial vibe the demo had, teaching you how to use everything? Yeah...stop expecting epic boss battles and encounters that only the most experienced of RPG players can defeat. It's just a demo. I'm sure there will be plenty of rough encounters in the game itself. 

Did I think the demo was heavily favored in the easy category? Of course I did. This certainly isnt my first game in the genre as I'm an RPG nut, action or otherwise. But perhaps you should look past your own nose and realise that there are gamers out there of all skill types, and they want to enjoy the demo too. The bone crushing challenge and difficulty will be available for us at launch. 

As for my thoughts on the demo, I actually really enjoyed it...and strangely enjoyed it MORE on the PS3 than the PC (although it'll take some getting used to assigning commands and such, but the combat feels more suited to the console, at least to me). I really tried to like Dragon Age: Origins, as RPGs are definately my favorite genre, but I just couldn't. I did complete it, but the whole thing felt repetative, dull, and lackluster with a story that, while good, is also a little played out. It felt like an MMO with no one else to play with. DA2 seems better suited to my style (hopefully the upper difficulties present a nice challenge without the interface and mechanics getting in the way).

Was skeptical at first, but looking forward to March 8th now.

[Zellana]

i agree isabela show off ... a little bit too much, compare to her, morrigan is a nun , i have nothing complain about voice of hawke , it make the character have personality, a real person in that world , a hero with a real background , not someone ..... not some vagabond sudden become a king beside you are the decide what he/she say, what attitude , cold harsh, or mocking .... etc, so what do you disagree about the story, the only problem i found is combat a little bit too fast, and cutscreen loading
And yes, pc gamer will find this a litte annoy , me too to find out that their favourite game look like a console game

Modifié par Zellana, 24 février 2011 - 10:28 .

[Kath]

TrackerTrem wrote...

Look guys it's Isabela! The main attraction of the game! So much for character development! She just shows up in a tavern!

[pic]

You do know that the demo is cut up right? The quest with Isabella is later in the game (NOT right after the intro) but they thrust you into it in the demo so you could get a feel for the different situations in the game.

[Beguiler59]

I had fun with the demo. My question is I did the secondary quest for isabella before delivering the amulet for flemeth, and the demo ended. Will I still get credit for completion and receive the perks.

[sleepyowlet]

amirfoox wrote...

Meh, defining a genre is counter-productive.

For me, an RPG is a good story, a good leveling system and combat which doesn't require the same amount of reflexes as a fast-pased FPS or RTS in order to succeed and enjoy.

For you, RPG may be something completely different. But that really doesn't matter a single thing, as RPG's, even pen and paper ones, crossed genres quite a while ago and are much more varied. Staying fixated on one, single, holy-grail RPG type is simply wrong and hurts you, the player, more than anything else, as you deny yourself from simply having fun based on semantics.

Now, if you honestly don't have any fun from playing, that's something else, and quite unfortunate.

I was just replying to someone who implied that everyone who doesn't enjoy the demo doesn't know what an RPG is. And quite honestly, I have yet to come across a P&P where you don't make up your own character.

I'm not clinging to anything Holy-Grail like; I'm just rying to explain why I don't like something. I was trying to give this unfortunate cross-breed that is DA2 a chance. I just found that it doesn't float my boat at all - another reason being that it's so heavy on the combat. I don't enjoy combat, I put up with it in a die-already-I-want-to-get-on-with-the-story kind of way. But that's just me, and I don't seriously expect any developer to make a RPG without much combat. But if you read the thread there are a lot of people criticising the same things - and they do so loudly and vehemently because they feel cheated. And I can understand why they feel that way.

[Lord Drakkul]

Hylan Dronta wrote...

The load times seemed smoother on the 360 as well, as on the PS3 version, the music seemed to skip a beat sometimes. It never lasted long, but it was there. I did notice some frame rate issues on both console versions, while it was absent on the PC. Although present on both consoles, it was far more noticeable on the PS3. I only noticed it once on the 360, and it was a very brief skip of a frame or two.

Hopefully that is just because the demo is old and unoptimized. I remember when the ME2 demo came out for PS3, it was rather choppy as well, but once the retail version arrived, it was smooth as butter. I'm guessing this game will have similar results.

[Gabbs]

huwie wrote...

A justification for the less realistic aspects (kung-fu style leaps and exploding enemies) is that this isn't supposed to portray reality, it's supposed to portray Varric's account of reality. The actual events might might well have looked much more mundane.  Obviously this justification isn't compatible with use of the engine for non-framed stories

Wow, you must be the most hardcore-believer I saw so far in this thread. Props for that I guess?

So the terrible UI is part of Varric's account of how console-ports look like on PC, mkay. And Varric also must have mentioned to the mysterious Chantry lady how you cannot zoom out anymore to a tactical view. Also Varric totally loves the new ME dialog system.

Yes, yes - its all the narrative of Varric's storytelling. The actual game will look and be fantastic. Now share some of those pills brother. Pretty please?

[DanZOAR]

I enjoyed the demo, but I felt that it lacked a lot of things that I enjoyed from DA:O.

-First of which I did not think that the graphics style was as good as DA1. I loved the realism and realistic look in the first game.

-The point that I didn't like the most was the interface. I don't know what it's called, in an fps it would be the HUD, it is what shows your health, stamina, items on screen and all that. It looked too cheap, I know it was supposed to be simple and easy to see everything, but I loved the style of DA1, with the mystical and curvy patterns to everything. In DA2 its just an orange box with writing in it.

But I really enjoyed it overall.

[Yrkoon]

Lord Drakkul wrote...

 Am I the only one here who finds it more than a little ridiculous that the DA:O extremists are calling foul on the difficulty of the combat of DA2 when:

1. The demo is on the Normal difficulty setting (which they said was meant to feel more action packed with little in the way of team management, but that higher difficulties would demand tactics and strategy to stand a chance), and

2. This is the beginning of the game, where generally most games ease new players into how to play. Notice the tutorial vibe the demo had, teaching you how to use everything? Yeah...stop expecting epic boss battles and encounters that only the most experienced of RPG players can defeat. It's just a demo. I'm sure there will be plenty of rough encounters in the game itself. .

Yep.  Not only is it the beginning of the game, but it's  the  friggin tutorial.

  Just to put things in perspective,  You fought a kitchen full of RATS  to learn combat mechanics  in DA:O.  Where was the outrage back then?

I'll say it again.  Opinions are one thing.   Mind numbingly Retarded complaints are another.  We're seeing  a lot of the latter on this thread.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 février 2011 - 10:33 .

[Gabbs]

Yrkoon wrote...

Avalastrius wrote...

...stuff...

Sorry but you need to check Witcher 2 for some advice. This is going to steal all the thunder from DA2, and it seems deservedly so. 

Aha,  and the true motivation   shows itself at the very end.

Here we have a guy who created  an account here, just today,  for no reason but to ruffle feathers, and then advertize Witcher 2.  We won't even waste time pointing out the  dozen or so factual errors  that exist in this post of his.

But I will say one thing, and you can take it as an iron-clad promise:  Paybacks are coming,   Lets see how you and your little  Witcher-fan- boys feel  in a couple of months when WE decend upon the Witcher boards and bash it as a "turd", and its fans as "children", just like you have done here with DA2.

Well I didn't created my account just today and absolutely agree with that he is saying. I bought both DA and Witcher and thought I would buy both DA2 and Witcher2 - as a matter of fact both were pre-ordered. Except now the DA2 pre-order is cancelled. Its too easy to label him a Witcher-fanboy and dismiss all his remarks as a troll. But the fact is that the DA2 demo disappointed half the community, while the other half is absolutely franatic about it. Saying that the disappointed half of the community are simply Witcher fanboys is pretty stupid. Most of us bought DA:O, Awakening and all DLC's. And we pre-ordered DA2 because we gave them the benefit of the doubt.

[Godvindel]

Bioware has clearly taken a step away from rpg to a more action oriented and simplified game. Probably  in order to make profit. I understand it because afterall, it's a business. You have to earn money. But It makes the game seriously less interesting.
I also doubt making a cartoonish action game is the only way to earn money. Well well.