8659 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

Besides excessive flashiness, the main problem I have with animations is that if something looks badass, its effect should also be badass. Basic attacks are barely caresses to the enemies. I hit a lot more often but a DA:O swing did much more damage.

If IA is like the demo, first thing to do on Nightmare is disable any AoE attacks. Considering autoaiming, mayne on other difficulties too.

[NerfenLied]

Without trying to be offensive to anyone, including BioWare devs and forum members of this community, I found the demo really, REALLY bad. Keyword being the demo, as I can't know if the final game is similarly... awful.

First off, some good stuff. The presentation of the story is top notch, I loved the loading screens, they were nicely animated. The graphics are a little worse than DA:O's, but it is probably because we'll be having many more enemies per screen so they had to to keep it playable. Plus, who cares about graphics, right? On the matter of the combat system, camera and all that, I preferred DA:O's, but I can dig the twist in this one without a problem, it's fine changing up the pace in the sequel, no problem.

Anyway, on to my issues with the actual game, now.

First off, the storytelling is really bad. It starts nicely, but when we reach the real story, we very quickly get to the point where family members start dying around you. Family members that for the character are very important, obviously, because one has so many mothers and brothers after all, right? But for the player those people mean nothing. We are literally given no time to interact with those people and actually feel the loss of them.

Ironically, after his brother dies a brutal death, our protagonist, Hawke, does not seem to really care about him. It is his freaking brother, damn it, not some random dude. How can he not cry at the very least? It seems impossibly unsentimental. And even more ironically, he seems much more saddened by the death of the Paladin who insulted his sister instead. Moreover, later you meet a woman for the first time in your (Hawke's) life and she offers herself to you after 5 entire minutes since you first met her. Of course, these are just some random dialogue moments of the demo, but the entire thing is horribly written, I did not only pick the worst ones. Flameth's line's (or maybe Hawke's responses) were probably even worse.

As any sane person can obviously see by this point, the writing in this sequel has taken a nose dive. But that is not the last of the problems of this demo. One of the most important changes from its predecessor is the dialogue wheel. In Mass Effect it was a wonderful tool that made dialogue options quick and easy. What it did not, however, do, is make dialogue absolutely trivial.

However, in Dragon Age 2, the dialogue options could not be any more bland and uninteresting. But that might be only the demo's dialogue, right? Wrong! The entire system has become so dumbed down, that really, dumbed down is a compliment at this point. I do not need the icons that tell me "HEY YOU GOOD GUY, PICK THIS, IT'S THE GOOD OPTION!". No, I want to read the dialogue options and decide for myself. This really takes a lot out of the RP of the game and is a really poor design choice. It also makes the dialogue look even more black/gray/white than ever before, something RPGs should be trying to hide well instead of conspicuously pointing out.

And, finally, my biggest gripe with the game is by far the entire experience. It is basically one endless loop of MOVE IN A LINEAR PATH, FIGHT, DIALOGUE, CUTSCENE. The disruption of gameplay was tremendous in the brief demo. Hopefully this will be better in the real game. Mass Effect had a similar structure, but here it is even more blatant than before, and for some unknown reason, the game seems to pause for some moments between action and dialogue.

So, this is my opinion on the demo. I'm absolutely sure that Dragon Age 2 will be a success, both critically and sales-wise, but I'm letting BioWare know that they are on a very slippery slope right now. A slope that only leads to short-term success. Here's hoping BioWare appreciates negative feedback as much as positive.

I'd like to point out that I am not a big fan of the first game, either. I found it dull and really bland in comparison to old good RPGs like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights (even NWN2, yes the OC), but this is much, much worse so far. It was so bad, in fact, that it made me want to vent and send my feedback on how horrible my experience was, making this my first post on BioWare forums, even thought I've been playing your games for years, even Jade Empire was a masterpiece in comparison. I never felt like I should complain about it at least.

EDIT: Fixed the spacing, hopefully.

Modifié par NerfenLied, 25 février 2011 - 12:42 .

[errant_knight]

Kromex wrote...

And what's with Fem Hawke walking like a stripper?

That's only Mage Hawke. Warrior Hawke seems to move fairly normally. I'll admit, I wasn't paying attention to that specifically, but it didn't make me go 'wtf?' the way playing a female mage did.

[Garak2]

errant_knight wrote...

For God sake, can't we disagree about a video game, even vehemently, without insulting each other? This is getting ridiculous.

Well, it seems to me that the people who love the demo are throwing far more personal insults.

[WarBaby2]

Garak2 wrote...
1) The demo is supposed to be representative of the final product which is why people think that it is representative of the final product. Do tell, why would Bioware release a non-representative demo?

2) So you trust a review you READ over a demo that you PLAYED.

1) you cannot make a representtive demo for a game where the main focul lies on a long winding story and character advancement... that demo would be the final game. and that the dialogue, sound mixing and other stuff people are so chocked up about was not final in the demo has already been stated by bioware... multiple times.

2) yea i do because I read this mag sinze it fist came out in the late 90. they gave DAO a 92 and DA2 a 87... good enough for me.

Modifié par WarBaby2, 25 février 2011 - 12:43 .

[Deadmac]

cabbagesoup wrote...

detoni.dougla s, I am with you on this totally. I have played almost all of there games and was a big fan of theirs.
This demo seems like the game will be a total sell out. The whole thing is so shallow it is down right boring.
No more tactics required just hit attack over and over. How quickly the battles end- in the demo I didn't even need to switch party members for there special abilities and your choice of dialogue or tone seems to make no difference.

I agree with your points, and I am going to raise you another one.

Keep in mind that I write the follwing as a graphic designer and web developer by degree and profession.
"Dragon Age II" is a conceptual mess. Unlike how "Dragon Age: Origin's" gui worked in harmony, "Dragon Age II's" interface for abilities, skills, and inventory do not work with the main game. It feels like they are two seperate components from two different games. One half of the game comes from a 12th century fantasy, and the other half of the game comes form a post-modern era. If you pay attention to how the chracters fight, you will see the same exact conundrum. You have 12th century dark fantasy characters acting like they came out of "Mortal Kombat" (Asia).

Its a conceptual mess.

Modifié par Deadmac, 25 février 2011 - 12:44 .

[cabbagesoup]

PirateGoat wrote...

I loved it! And I can't wait until my game comes!

Combat is A LOT faster paced than Origins. The animations are more fluid, and enemies go down fast! I had to change some of the tactics I used in Origins to make up for the faster combat, which basically chalk up to having to react more quickly, instead of plodding around the battlefield taking out one enemy at a time. Archers seem a bit overpowered, but nothing major. I did notice that they actually hit much harder than mages on their normal attacks, but as usual, mages get more powerful as they level up. Little disappointed at lack of friendly fire.
Rogues-Overall, loved them! They're so...roguish! It is now mandatory that i play one.
Mages- Fun, as always! The new animations for the spells are much more pleasing to the eye!
Warriors-Never been much of a warrior person, I'll admit, but I had a blast as a two-handed warrior!

Two main complaints- The indicators on the dialogue wheel don't always make sense to me. What does the diamond mean? Also, during the fight with just before Hayder, both Bethany and my PC starting attack invisible enemies on the staircase, but this mainly just provided some giggles.

What are you saying there are no tactics to speak of in this demo! You just want flashy quick combat that you get Jaded with in no time there is no game play. I don't even have to think tactically to win every battle and they go by quick like nothing happened. You want this just watch a kung fu movie.

The  words "fast paced" are getting thrown around here enough to become another mindless cliche to us in forums and for the game developers to latch on to for more sales:?.

[rak72]

errant_knight wrote...

Kromex wrote...

And what's with Fem Hawke walking like a stripper?

That's only Mage Hawke. Warrior Hawke seems to move fairly normally. I'll admit, I wasn't paying attention to that specifically, but it didn't make me go 'wtf?' the way playing a female mage did.

I just got done playing a rouge - there was a lot of booty shaking with that one too.

[HawXV2]

Garak2 wrote...

HawXV2 wrote...

I just don't understand. This is DA:O, but with faster combat and better graphics.

Too fast and the graphics are no better than DAO (which I am playing now). In fact, I prefer the art style of DAO too.

Really, because I am too, and everything looks better on DA2. Not by much, but it's a nice improvement. Combat is fine. If it's too damn fast, don't press the button that fast! But I would like to see an auto-attack for the higher difficulties. I thought it was too fast the 1st time I played, but after a few other plays, I realized it's not really that fast at all. A high dex rogue in Origins easily outpaces the speed I've seen for this game. If you played one in DA:O, this shouldn't be fast enough.

[RyuKaiser]

For the PC version... I would like to see the gamma slider go past 1. I had to get into the config to get something around 1.70 just so I could see things. I will admit that the game runs incredibly well, is incredibly fun, and I've fallen pretty hard for it. Funny enough, I hadn't even played Dragon Age, and I bought the Ultimate Edition during the Steam Sales. I really have to say though, now I'm pumped to play the original, so I can carry over my choices.

As I type this, I'm uninstalling several games I don't really play, and gearing up to tear into Dragon Age because of the DA2 Demo. You guys really did a good job in optimizing the game. I look forward to release, and I will highly likely preorder this game because of this demo.

[Garak2]

WarBaby2 wrote...

Garak2 wrote...
1) The demo is supposed to be representative of the final product which is why people think that it is representative of the final product. Do tell, why would Bioware release a non-representative demo?

2) So you trust a review you READ over a demo that you PLAYED.

1) you cannot make a representtive demo for a game where the main focul lies on a long winding story and character advancement... that demo would be the final game. and that the dialogue, sound mixing and other stuff people are so chocked up about was not final in the demo has already been stated by bioware... multiple times.

2) yea i do because I read this mag sinze it fist came out in the late 90. they gave DAO a 92 and DA2 a 87... good enough for me.

1) Yes you can. It can be representative of combat, voice acting, graphics, control scheme, camera, etc....  These are things that people are judging the demo on....and rightly so.

2) Your choice but I think a playable demo is alot more informative than a reviewer who may or may not be biased.

[errant_knight]

rak72 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Kromex wrote...

And what's with Fem Hawke walking like a stripper?

That's only Mage Hawke. Warrior Hawke seems to move fairly normally. I'll admit, I wasn't paying attention to that specifically, but it didn't make me go 'wtf?' the way playing a female mage did.

I just got done playing a rouge - there was a lot of booty shaking with that one too.

Dang. That's sad to hear. And I was so proud of them for skipping that nonsense in DA:O, too. Disappointing.

[gpk13]

the502entourage wrote...

is there a forum for console users only

There should be...

There seems to be a pretty big divide between PC and Console opinions (PC here, didn't like it).

Honestly, I would have preffered a delayed PC release to "get it right for the PC" rather that what the demo indicates we're getting on the PC.
I truly feel that the investment they would have put in would be returned twofold (at least!); instead I think they will lose MANY PC sales overall in the current state of affairs.

TLDR summary: long time hardcore Bioware fanboy and PC gamer most likely picking up DA2 from the bargin bin some months from now...

P.S. Glad I pre-ordered Witcher 2 off GoG; I think I'll buy A-10C off D2D this weekend...

[Yrkoon]

Muddlehead wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
How  did you manage to watch and enjoy finishing moves like decapitations and such when  using the top down camera and your characters are really small and you couldn't see the full details close up?

Maybe some of us aren't so motivated by watching ketchup being sprayed around?

Fair enough,   but swinging  my sword and watching  a darkspawn's head fly off his shoulders is probably what I loved most about the combat in origins.

[Graunt]

Overall it was a positive experience, but as I stated already in the "Demo Avilable" thread, it's not without it's many blemishes that I hope have been ironed out for the final build, and that this demo was the same you were showing last fall.

+Graphics have a much better sense of uniqueness this time around, and I like the use of negative space.
+Skill trees seem like they have a lot of potential, but aren't quite what I was expecting based off of the comments from Bioware.  You don't necessarily have the option to stay and "power up" a particular favorite ability, you have 1-2 options that enhance that ability before moving on.  That's not really much of a choice since most people are going to get the biggest boost that they can from a special attack that is used frequently.  It's also not game breaking, so you're still going to see many of the same limited builds over and over again where there wasn't really that much choice besides "Main build + a few utility abilities" or "Enhanced Main build with no utility".
+Combat didn't really feel that much different than the first game (which was terrible), but enough to push it out of the terrible zone and into passable.

-Volume spikes up super loud during cutscenes (this needs to go)
-Inconsistencies with the way characters look in game compared to cutscenes, and even changing hair coloring during a scripted event (this should be fixed by now).
-Selecting characters through portraits is a nightmare in this game and seems 50/50 on whether or not you're actually going to hit the mark.
-Selecting tactics was also 50/50 (more like 10/90 more often than not) and had to be coaxed into actually working.  On my second and third playthrough I simply didn't bother with them at all.
-Combat isn't really particularly exciting and is still such that to get anything even remotely useful out of it, it becomes both a pause fest and a focus fire fest exactly the same as the first.  I already said combat was improved, but it's still not great by any means even though it's still slightly better than the first game.  It's setup so that it should be playable in real time, but the AI is still horribly unoptimized for this, so you still have to manually control everything, and the only way to do that is through pausing.
-I don't like the way the new hotbars are at all.  They take up the entire portion of the bottom of the screen.  This would be fine if not for the fact that they are transparent.  It looks absolutely ugly as sin, as does the xp bar running right on top of that.  Thankfully a mod will more than likely fix this ugliness within a week.

Modifié par Graunt, 25 février 2011 - 12:57 .

[Kileyan]

Is there a way to select a character and give him/her orders, without the camera zooming to the characters location?

More often than not, when I select a character aside from my "main" character, I just want to give them a quick spell cast or movement order. I don't want the camera to zoom to their location, which may or may not even be in a position to see the area I want to target or move them to. ( I hope that made sense)

The camera is getting in the way of the game for me:(

Modifié par Kileyan, 25 février 2011 - 12:57 .

[HawXV2]

Deadmac wrote...

cabbagesoup wrote...

detoni.dougla s, I am with you on this totally. I have played almost all of there games and was a big fan of theirs.
This demo seems like the game will be a total sell out. The whole thing is so shallow it is down right boring.
No more tactics required just hit attack over and over. How quickly the battles end- in the demo I didn't even need to switch party members for there special abilities and your choice of dialogue or tone seems to make no difference.

I agree with your points, and I am going to raise you another one.

Keep in mind that I write the follwing as a graphic designer and web developer by degree and profession.
"Dragon Age II" is a conceptual mess. Unlike how "Dragon Age: Origin's" gui worked in harmony, "Dragon Age II's" interface for abilities, skills, and inventory do not work with the main game. It feels like they are two seperate components from two different games. One half of the game comes from a 12th century fantasy, and the other half of the game comes form a post-modern era. If you pay attention to how the chracters fight, you will see the same exact conundrum. You have 12th century dark fantasy characters acting like they came out of "Mortal Kombat" (Asia).

Its a conceptual mess.

lol. And? The only thing I'm worried about is how cool the game looks. This game looks cool. Good job, though. I've never seen someone attack the conceptual integrity of a game. What games have you designed? And, I'm very curios, what does the web desinger portion of your education equate to in games?

[DJBare]

Deadmac wrote...
I agree with your points, and I am going to raise you another one.
Keep in mind that I write the follwing as a graphic designer and web developer by degree and profession.
"Dragon Age II" is a conceptual mess. Unlike how "Dragon Age: Origin's" gui worked in harmony, "Dragon Age II's" interface for abilities, skills, and inventory do not work with the main game. It feels like they are two seperate components from two different games. One half of the game comes from a 12th century fantasy, and the other half of the game comes form a post-modern era. If you pay attention to how the chracters fight, you will see the same exact conundrum. You have 12th century dark fantasy characters acting like they came out of "Mortal Kombat" (Asia).

Its a conceptual mess.

I knew there was something I could not quite put my finger on, that's it!, mish mash comes to mind.

Modifié par DJBare, 25 février 2011 - 12:59 .

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

gpk13 wrote...

the502entourage wrote...

is there a forum for console users only

There should be...

There seems to be a pretty big divide between PC and Console opinions (PC here, didn't like it).

Honestly, I would have preffered a delayed PC release to "get it right for the PC" rather that what the demo indicates we're getting on the PC.
I truly feel that the investment they would have put in would be returned twofold (at least!); instead I think they will lose MANY PC sales overall in the current state of affairs.

TLDR summary: long time hardcore Bioware fanboy and PC gamer most likely picking up DA2 from the bargin bin some months from now...

Agreed.

[Kromex]

Deadmac wrote...


Keep in mind that I write the follwing as a graphic designer and web developer by degree and profession.
"Dragon Age II" is a conceptual mess. Unlike how "Dragon Age: Origin's" gui worked in harmony, "Dragon Age II's" interface for abilities, skills, and inventory do not work with the main game. It feels like they are two seperate components from two different games. One half of the game comes from a 12th century fantasy, and the other half of the game comes form a post-modern era. If you pay attention to how the chracters fight, you will see the same exact conundrum. You have 12th century dark fantasy characters acting like they came out of "Mortal Kombat" (Asia).

Its a conceptual mess.

Good points-very good. I guess it was caused by rush to publish the game quickly. Well they will probably sale many copies based on previous sucesss but the series will be damaged by the sloppy work.

[william.munden]

reaaly dont like the demo on pc feels to much to me like a console game too me, some people might like that and thats fine but not for me.It felt like devil may cry to me.I liked DOA1 a lot but i just dont like the fill of this new game.There not many dialogue options that i noticed as well when playing.never mind there are plenty of other new games on the horizon.

[Steve2911]

HawXV2 wrote...lol. And? The only thing I'm worried about is how cool the game looks. This game looks cool. Good job, though. I've never seen someone attack the conceptual integrity of a game. What games have you designed? And, I'm very curios, what does the web desinger portion of your education equate to in games?

What's cool looking about the GUI? It's ridiculously bland, especially compared to the more immersive style of Origins, which is my main (pretty much only) complaint about the demo it seems.

[Eurypterid]

Kileyan wrote...

Is there a way to select a character and give him/her orders, without the camera zooming to the characters location?

More often than not, when I select a character aside from my "main" character, I just want to give them a quick spell cast or movement order. I don't want the camera to zoom to their location, which may or may not even be in a position to see the area I want to target or move them to. ( I hope that made sense)

The camera is getting in the way of the game for me:(

Camera was my biggest gripe with the demo as well. I found myself constantly fighting it. On a subsequent run through, I found it slightly better, but I'd give a lot to have the DA:O camera back.

As for switching, no there's nothing you can do about it.It automatically switches to whatever character you control and I don't believe there's an option to disable it.

[rak72]

errant_knight wrote...

rak72 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Kromex wrote...

And what's with Fem Hawke walking like a stripper?

That's only Mage Hawke. Warrior Hawke seems to move fairly normally. I'll admit, I wasn't paying attention to that specifically, but it didn't make me go 'wtf?' the way playing a female mage did.

I just got done playing a rouge - there was a lot of booty shaking with that one too.

Dang. That's sad to hear. And I was so proud of them for skipping that nonsense in DA:O, too. Disappointing.

Yea, I miss my warden

[BelgusTradis]

Deadmac wrote...

Keep in mind that I write the follwing as a graphic designer and web developer by degree and profession.

Ok... So what?