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Dragon Age 2 Demo feedback thread


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#5526
Ariella

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T-Rock1209 wrote...

Brimleydower wrote...

Rowlf wrote...

I have to wonder whether the majority of people complaining had much of an inclination to actually buy this game in the first place. I really enjoyed the demo. It's a very unique story style that they are adopting which hopefully will make this game really stand out. Bioware aren't happy to just churn out a same old sequel and they should be applauded for sticking their neck out in this respect.


I had the highest hopes possible for this sequel.  If the demo is anything to judge by, however, the sequel is going to pale in comparison to the original.  I'm not real sure why people keep insinuating Bioware has to do anything in regards to making a game stand out.  Are they trying to distance themselves from their own formulae?  All of the Infinity Engine Games, the NWNs, KOTOR, and so on... these are all very distinctive games that stand out above other RPGs on the market.  In fact, most of the changes made between Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 are accomplishing just the opposite: generic action-fantasy combats for the console, the abandoning of player-created characters in favor of cheesy voice actors, crude/bland/boring dialogue mechanics, and a portrayal of women that rivals DoA volleyball.

I just hope that Bioware analyzes more than the income generated by DA2.  At this point, the game's title alone will generate some sells, thanks to how amazing the first Dragon Age was. 


So you're saying that Bioware is abandoning all of it's roots based on 4 conversations heard from a demo and the presence of large breasts? I can't take comments like this seriously until the real game comes out. Bioware is known for several things-- story telling and character interaction. That is at the heart of every single one of their biggest hits. How can you judge that from a 40 minute demo that obviously focused on showcasing the new combat mechanics?


And if breasts are an issue for the OP there must be a huge hole in his memory if he can't remember Morrigan's outfit... Generally speaking DA as a series has done pretty well by women, not perfect, but damn well for what is a still a male dominated hobby. In fact, women seem to be in more positions of authority or at have a presence which is more than a body: Aveline, Bethany if you play a rogue or a fighter, Cassandra, Hawke's mother, Flemeth, even Isabel commands and demands respect. 

#5527
rinter_degan

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I don't really have anything new to add, but I wanted to comment anyway.  ^_~

+The combat has improved drastically.  I enjoyed it. 

+ The graphics have improved. Not quite ME2 good, but definitely better than DA:O.  

+ Skill trees look exciting. 

- The voice-acting drove me nuts and the writing felt...crappy.  Maybe the fact it was a demo (and had constraints), but I just felt like I was being smacked in the face with every fantasy cliche.  The dialogue lacked a lot of the charm that DA:O had. That being said, this was a short demo and fair enough, it lacked build-up.   But Flemeth's cynicism, Isabella's one-liners, and Varric's bravado all felt too staged.  Maybe they grow on you?  IDK.  I didn't really care much about the sibling either.  Or Wesley.  Or even Hawke. So...playing the demo actually made me less excited for the game release.  

-  The text size is killing me.  I don't have an HDTV, but I have a 24 inch screen and I was still struggling to read the damn codex entries.  


Neutral:  Flemeth's design is...interesting. But femHawke looked a little like Morrigan and I was creeped out.

Isabella's...bouyancy bits.  Yeah.  Umm.  Don't those get in the way when you fight?



Still buying the game, and all, but I'm definitely not as excited as I had been.

Modifié par rinter_degan, 25 février 2011 - 02:29 .


#5528
Sarielle

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detoni.douglas wrote...



Sarielle wrote...




One more thing that I find toooooo much anoying... what is that dancing thing that the mage do to attack?

I mean this is not DJ or Dance Hero, but my mage keeps jumping and making 'balé' moves in a repetitive order that no one would make when fighting... nonsense, why can't he justo shoot with his staff, old school style....






Because that "old-school" animation is boring and un-epic. :B








ooo I see... than epic is like dancing while you hit a darkspawn with a lot of bright glowing and fancy magic.... is this type of animation that young console players like?



The fire doesn't even look like fire damn... :)






Had to leave for awhile but, I am reminded strongly of Zero Punctuation. YOU ARE PLAYING A SWORD AND SORCERY RPG, attempting to be condescending about maturity levels is full of lulz.



And that's actually the PC version of DA:O registered under my avatar. Herp a derp.






#5529
Sarielle

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Whoops, double post.

Modifié par Sarielle, 25 février 2011 - 02:31 .


#5530
Brimleydower

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Rockpopple wrote...

Actually, Flemeth's breast size is the same as Hawke's, and Bethany or whatever her name is, Hawke's sister only has big breasts during the dwarf's exaggerated telling of the story, not during the normal telling. It might help if you actually pay attention to the game you're excoriating before you come here to vent.

Also, in DA:O you're still customizing an existing character in some senses. But yes, this game has a narrative and not just a nearly blank-slate Grey Warden character. Heaven forfend.


Apparently we just have excruciatingly different barometers for what is "big" and what is not.  I know it's fun to simply dismiss people's opinions as wrong on the basis of them disagreeing with your own, but it doesn't make either side more than mere opinions.  We could just call eachother pretentious and fanboys all night if that would make you feel better, I suppose, but it isn't going to change how both of us feel about the demo we've just played.

I happen to enjoy creating my own character from scratch.  I don't know why this upsets you (or any one for that matter) so much.  It's one of the things I have enjoyed about many of Bioware's title.

#5531
aMammothrpg

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I started RPGs with DnD, Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, all the old greats. I've been playing games since the 80's and I have found that RPGs are my fav. The Dragon Age 2 demo gives me the feeling I had playing the good RPGs back in the day and for that I salute Bioware, and also for sticking to their guns no matter what the nerd-raged bawls drinking living in their mommas basement nay sayers do.

#5532
errant_knight

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Scandigeek wrote...

You know, I'm not sure why Bioware is keeping this thread open anymore.  I suppose theres a few more folk out there wiliing to just give feedback.  But now It seems like it's just become a battle ground between those that love the demo and can't wait for the game to be out in two weeks, and those that feel like Bioware has dropped John Cleese, complete with a desk, in their laps, and are unhappy because of it. 

I'm in the unhappy, not want "something completely different" camp, but I'm pretty much done complaining about the demo, and am distracted by the christmas game with all the dragons and viking motiffs.  Besides I don't want to fight anyone.  If like the game, and want to buy it, more power to you, I ain't going to tell you how to spend your money unless your buying toxic waste or the star wars prequels. 

So um...yeah, could we all stop fighting about this?  Cause it doesn't do us or Bioware any good.  

You're right. Those who haven't had their say yet should be able to do so without those of us who already have clogging up the thread. *bows out*

#5533
Brimleydower

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Ariella wrote...

T-Rock1209 wrote...

Brimleydower wrote...

Rowlf wrote...

I have to wonder whether the majority of people complaining had much of an inclination to actually buy this game in the first place. I really enjoyed the demo. It's a very unique story style that they are adopting which hopefully will make this game really stand out. Bioware aren't happy to just churn out a same old sequel and they should be applauded for sticking their neck out in this respect.


I had the highest hopes possible for this sequel.  If the demo is anything to judge by, however, the sequel is going to pale in comparison to the original.  I'm not real sure why people keep insinuating Bioware has to do anything in regards to making a game stand out.  Are they trying to distance themselves from their own formulae?  All of the Infinity Engine Games, the NWNs, KOTOR, and so on... these are all very distinctive games that stand out above other RPGs on the market.  In fact, most of the changes made between Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 are accomplishing just the opposite: generic action-fantasy combats for the console, the abandoning of player-created characters in favor of cheesy voice actors, crude/bland/boring dialogue mechanics, and a portrayal of women that rivals DoA volleyball.

I just hope that Bioware analyzes more than the income generated by DA2.  At this point, the game's title alone will generate some sells, thanks to how amazing the first Dragon Age was. 


So you're saying that Bioware is abandoning all of it's roots based on 4 conversations heard from a demo and the presence of large breasts? I can't take comments like this seriously until the real game comes out. Bioware is known for several things-- story telling and character interaction. That is at the heart of every single one of their biggest hits. How can you judge that from a 40 minute demo that obviously focused on showcasing the new combat mechanics?


And if breasts are an issue for the OP there must be a huge hole in his memory if he can't remember Morrigan's outfit... Generally speaking DA as a series has done pretty well by women, not perfect, but damn well for what is a still a male dominated hobby. In fact, women seem to be in more positions of authority or at have a presence which is more than a body: Aveline, Bethany if you play a rogue or a fighter, Cassandra, Hawke's mother, Flemeth, even Isabel commands and demands respect. 


Listen, I'm not saying I don't expect their to be a certain level of raunch in these games.  I've said exactly the opposite several times.  For it to be so exaggerated, though?  It makes it hard for me to immerse myself in the world when I'm constantly rolling my eyes at every woman I come across.  Maybe the huge boob thing isn't a big deal for everyone else, and that's fine, but it is blatant overkill to me.

#5534
Mezinger

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After repaying and umpteenth time with the vain hope of staying connected to a EA/DA server to unlock the sword... I just wanted to post a couple more thoughts...

Somebody here stated the new darkspawn models reminded them of the flying monkeys from the Wizard of OZ... totally! Their animations now seem super over speedy to me and very identically and bland.. somebody else posted that we probably wont see much darkspawn after the initial period of the game, let's hope!

I noticed another thing that makes dialogue weird in the game... there's very little background noise or music, the voice acting comes out is inappropriately echo-ie in game. Hopefully that's fixed in the gold version.

I've got mixed feelings about the discovery of mood monitoring, where the game tracks your responses to dialogue wheel choices and then varies what you say in non-choice driven dialogue sections based on your previous selections... in one way it's cool because it further personalizes you're Hawke, in another way it reinforces black & white choices, like I'm always going to pick the "good" option cause I hate it when my character is inappropriately snarky in dialogue situations where I'm not driving..

I think I'm going to be constrained to playing a female warrior sword and shield Hawke. As I find the male Hawke voice.... grating... and I hate the rouge and wizard combat animations... not to mention the silly over sized one handed butter knife animations for the warrior class.. I just really hope I can do something with Lady Hawkes ridiculous emo bangs...

:)

I guess we'll see what the game is actually like March 8th (yes I'm in NA).

Modifié par Mezinger, 25 février 2011 - 03:42 .


#5535
BlaznZero

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aMammothrpg wrote...

I started RPGs with DnD, Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, all the old greats. I've been playing games since the 80's and I have found that RPGs are my fav. The Dragon Age 2 demo gives me the feeling I had playing the good RPGs back in the day and for that I salute Bioware, and also for sticking to their guns no matter what the nerd-raged bawls drinking living in their mommas basement nay sayers do.


Cheers to that. 

Bioware is looking forward and made changes to step towards that goal. Unlike too many here, that are looking as backwards as they can.

#5536
CyberNinjaSensei

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 Absolutely astounding! After starting the demo, all I could think was "If the demo is this awesome, can't wait 'til the finished product." The combat is the best change by far! Love the talent layout, also. 

Also, much thanks for adding more stuff for pre-orders! 

Modifié par CyberNinjaSensei, 25 février 2011 - 02:37 .


#5537
cabbagesoup

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aMammothrpg wrote...

I started RPGs with DnD, Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, all the old greats. I've been playing games since the 80's and I have found that RPGs are my fav. The Dragon Age 2 demo gives me the feeling I had playing the good RPGs back in the day and for that I salute Bioware, and also for sticking to their guns no matter what the nerd-raged bawls drinking living in their mommas basement nay sayers do.


I seriously doubt you played all the old RPGs if you like this one so much.
What on earth does this have in common with a true RPG D&D style and most of the games young man who still lives with momma (I can tell) you've quoted are action RPGs:devil:

#5538
ure7

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I have downloaded the DAII demo for Xbox 360, and this is my review after three playthroughs:

Gameplay & Mechanics

It is livelier than DA:O, I must admit.  The fact that you can swing your sword is kinda nice, but the regular attack feels like it does virtually nothing.
When I played as the Warrior, it felt like I was constantly mashing the bloody "A" button to little avail.  I would use a special attack like a heavy swing (or whatever) which would be the only thing that actually killed anything, then I would go back to the monotonous task of mashing "A" to little effect, waiting for my cooldowns, which felt like they were around 10-20 seconds.  I think my eye started to twitch.

I could immediately tell this would be one of those game that would work much better if you could hotkey more than 3-6 skills (the limit for the console version, without holding down more buttons to bring up the wheel), because you could use all your different abilities to break up the monotony of pressing the A button.  Then by the time you've finished using one set of skills, the other set would already have cooled down by that time and you could repeat.  Which sounds like it might be perfect for PC since you've got a whole keypad to hotkey stuff.
But as it was, the Warrior was, disappointly, a bit dull ( I do still hope you'll bring back the Spirit Warrior prestige class which you introduced in Awakening--that was rather interesting).

The Mage was more interesting to play because there are so many creative and delightful ways kill your opponent.  However, I also think the Mage suffered from a similar problem the Warrior did in that there weren't many spells to choose from, so I had to result to mashing "A" (to little avail) again.

That was when something became apparent to me: it seems like the skill trees have been dumbed down a little.  It feels like there aren't as many skills or spells to choose from as there was in DA:O.
So for the Mage, it was like I only had one or two spells, which is natural for level 1, yes, but it felt like the cooldowns were too bloody long, and my only other option for attack was pretty useless.  Then when you jump ahead in the demo and automatically go up about 4 levels, it still felt like I didn't have enough spells.  Part of this was probably becuase skill points can be spent on upgrading spells you already have, so you may be putting in about as many points into skills as you did in DA:O (I haven't done the math, just supposing), but you have fewer spells/skills to choose from.  That's what it seems like anyway.
On that note, it seems like the Mage here really gets the short end of the stick since they originally had so many wonderful toys to choose from.  Now it feels like they've been gimped a bit.

So to clarify here quick: I'm not saying that the regular attack should be really jacked up and it should do a ton of damage.  I just think it could stand to do a little more and feel a tad more substantial.
Anyway...

In contrast to the other two, the Rogue was another story.  The refinement to the Rogue is just fantastic, and it feels like it is the only class at this point that truely benefits from these new game mechanics.  The new Evade skill and the facelift which Backstab has received are great and (maybe it's just me, but) it seems like use those skills cool off frequently enough to break up the monotony of the A button.

Archery (now strictly for Rogues) has the similar problem of the Mage and Warrior where you're stuck mashing "A" until you earn a few skills.  So when you're starting off, it kinda stinks.

Also to clarify: I think all classes suffer from "A" mashing at beginning level until you get some skills and your lot improves with leveling.  But I think some classes suffer from this more than others.

Dialogue

It's interesting that the game has taken the ME approach, but I'm a little disappointed that I can't play as an elf or dwarf, which is partly why I'm drawn to fantasy games in the first place.  But I do understand the limitations of the game engine and the cost of voice actors and scripts.  But still.

At any rate, (and I know there's nothing that  can be done about it now) there were a few dialogue options that were rather rediculous.  Such as...

*SPOILER!*

... When Aveline's husband is corrupted by Darkspawn blood and he begs her to kill him.  One of the things you can choose to say is "It's up to you" (which I thought was the most sensible choice since I had to pick in order to move on).  However it ends up coming out like:
"He's your husband.  I can't decide his fate."
My reaction: ... Umm... she didn't ask you?

Another strange dialogue (which your character just blurts out) is after you kill a group of gang mooks and afterwards you suddenly say, "I was trying to talk them down!"
No, no, I'm pretty sure I was trying to kill them.
Anyway, it's not it's anything that can be fixed, I know, I just fely like pointing it out.

Graphics

The character models are certainly more polished, I must say.  Overall the graphics aren't terrible, but nothing amazing.  Graphics are never on my list of high priorities anyway, I do bring them up when there is an uncanny valley--the one I am referring to in this instance are the Darkspawn character models and some of the game's environments.  Both of which are rather unsightly to the eye.
Not in the "Oh the Darkspawn are ugly" kind of way but ugly as in graphically--they're just not that good looking.  And again, some of the environments didn't look so good.
But the other character models are not that bad.
Eh, graphics haven't really been DA's strongest point to start, you can tell that BioWare is putting more of their attention elsewhere *Ahem* ME3.

So like I said, graphics aren't on my list of high priorities anyway, but there were some things that could've used a touch up.

Another quick thing, but this has more to do with the appearance and portrayal of a character--not graphics:

WHY THE HECK DOES FLEMETH HAVE HORN HAIR???  What were you thinking, BW?  That's a little weird.

Final Verdict

It's okay.  It could stand a bit of touching up, but it's not bad.  I'm interested enough to buy the game.

And hey, maybe the demo is just undeveloped and the released product might be very different.  Who knows.

#5539
CaitlynRoe

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In Origins, I loved playing mage so much that I ever successfully completed a non-mage playthough. After playing through the demo with all 3 classes, however, I am most excited about playing a rogue, which was always the least appealing class for me before.

Other reactions: I'm not a big fan of how the character moves while in battle. It feels less natural, and as if there were an invisible grid. I really like the camera angle and how the camera follows the action, more than I did Origins. I like the voiced protagonist more than I thought I would, but that combined with the dialogue wheel, I feel as if I have a choice between playing 3 characters--Nice Hawke, Snarky Hawke, and Gruff Hawke, instead of coming up with a character concept and choosing the dialogues to fit it. This way, there is less thought involved in dialogue choice and less thought regarding who I want my Hawke to be apart from he initial decision (although this may change when I get more into the main game).

Overall, my enthusiasm level is about the same, with the unexpected change of preferred class.

Modifié par CaitlynRoe, 25 février 2011 - 02:39 .


#5540
Rockpopple

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Brimleydower wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

Actually, Flemeth's breast size is the same as Hawke's, and Bethany or whatever her name is, Hawke's sister only has big breasts during the dwarf's exaggerated telling of the story, not during the normal telling. It might help if you actually pay attention to the game you're excoriating before you come here to vent.

Also, in DA:O you're still customizing an existing character in some senses. But yes, this game has a narrative and not just a nearly blank-slate Grey Warden character. Heaven forfend.


Apparently we just have excruciatingly different barometers for what is "big" and what is not.  I know it's fun to simply dismiss people's opinions as wrong on the basis of them disagreeing with your own, but it doesn't make either side more than mere opinions.  We could just call each other pretentious and fanboys all night if that would make you feel better, I suppose, but it isn't going to change how both of us feel about the demo we've just played.

I happen to enjoy creating my own character from scratch.  I don't know why this upsets you (or any one for that matter) so much.  It's one of the things I have enjoyed about many of Bioware's title.


I'm telling you, dude, Bethany's big breasts are only during the exaggerated God-Hawke portion of the demo, not during the rest of the tale. During the rest of the tale, her breasts are the same size as femHawke. Isabella's the only one with admittedly, ridiculously big boobs. Play the demo again and see for yourself. Or don't, and keep telling yourself that you're right when you're not. Whatever floats your boat.

And I couldn't care less how you want to play your character. We've known for what, a year now, that DA:2 will be the story about human from Lothering. Dunno why that bothers you now.

#5541
Deadmac

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Eurypterid wrote...
....

I got the whole rogue message. Lol... I am so use to seeing Rouge being used as a name. I will try to remember we are not talking about a pronoun. Lol...

Modifié par Deadmac, 25 février 2011 - 02:37 .


#5542
havoc546

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 God, chill out about the graphics, you guy's are setting your expectation's to high, (like i did with REACH), I think the graphics are great really, Hawke's voice acting was amazing, Isabella's hot as hell, The combat is a WHOLE lot better, and the best part YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WHEEL, INSTEAD OF A TREE! Overall the demo was just FANTASTIC, It's a great step from origins, And thank GOD you improved the navigation system, THANK YOU BIOWARE! THANK YOU!

#5543
Lekwid

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Aveline's hands are just creepy. I bet they put granny hands on her in the demo just for kicks. Don't wanna romance that...

#5544
Zeepee

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This is my two cents of a personal preview of Dragon Age II, my judgment is purely based on the released developer diaries, trailers, the 55 min. in-game walkthrough movie and lastly the public demo Bioware just released.
 
 
First, a little background:
 
I am one of the old PC gamers dating back from when the Eye of the Beholder series was hot.
However I have also played most of newer RPG titles as well, which includes the Baldur’s Gate series, Icewind Dale series, PlanceScape Torment, The Elder Scrolls series and the Fallout series, which I all loved tremendously.
When Bioware started on the Neverwinter Night series I was excited at first, but was quite disappointed with the end product, primarily because of the way the Dungeons & Dragons mechanics ended up implemented in the game. Being a veteran Dungeons & Dragons gamer myself at that time, I personally thought that “The Temple of Elemental Evil” game did a much greater job of implementing the Dungeon & Dragons ruleset into a video game. So I ended up taking a big break from Bioware, while they did the expansions, the sequel and Jade Empire.
 
Years later when I discovered that Bioware was making Dragon Age, which was a step back towards the good old Baldur’s Gate days, I was thrilled. The game turned out to be EPIC in my eyes, a great new world with an exciting story and its own ruleset geared towards a video game and not inherited from a tabletop RPG, worked just perfectly, of course there were some minor issues, but in the big picture it was an instant masterpiece.
 
So now, approximately two years later, Dragon Age II has gone gold and arrives in a couple of weeks.
I have personally been looking forward to its release and I am sure many other people have as well, however the more I see of the game, the more I get the impression that Bioware took a BIG nose dive into the wrong direction and changed a lot of things that really worked very well and made Dragon Age Origins the masterpiece it is today.
 
In Dragon Age II Bioware has decided to remove all the playable character races, except one, because of their new story, furthermore they have removed all skills from the game, removed most of the equipment options for all companions, except weapons and magic enhancements, removed the two-weapon fighting option for the warrior class and lastly they removed the way you could see your dialogue options, before you chose them.
 
Now, what is wrong with that?
You see RPG games are ultimately about character development and important player/story choices, in both videogames and tabletop games; of course you don’t have the same amount of freedom in a computer game as you do in tabletop games, since you have to focus around a specific story and have limited scope around it.
 
In Dragon Age Origins, Bioware really caught that and turned out a fantastic game focused around a great story, but at the same time giving the players a big range of options to choose from, everything from races and origin, to different ways to develop you character, both skill-wise and ability-wise.
 
 
In Dragon Age II, Bioware has removed most of the RPG aspects (except story) in order to make a fast paced action game instead, if you compare the two games, you will see almost all improvements of the sequel is about better graphics, improved combat reaction and control, and a new way for console gamers to play the game.
The shortcomings, you will not be able to choose your race, your origin, you will be more limited in character development, equipment choices, strategy and dialogue options.
 

So to sum it up a bit:    
 
The Good:
-Improved overall graphics
-Improved characters
-Improved city landscapes (does Kirkwall just look amazing or what!!!)
-Nice and streamlined ability trees
-More reactive character control in combat (Needed)
-Beautiful spell effects
 
 
The Bad:
-Only one playable race (story issue)
-Only one origin (story issue)
-Generally over/inhuman sized weapons
-Way too fast combat pace
-Removed two-weapon fighting from the warrior class
-Dialogue wheel
-Open lock is only available to the rogue class
 
 
The Ugly:
-Removed the strategic view
-Removed the skills from the game
-Removed most armor and customization options from all companions
-Removed the PC Toolset
 
 
Some of the issues - In detail:
 
Fast Combat pace
In my personal opinion the new combat pace is way too fast, every melee fighter goes ninja berserk, I agree that the faster combat pace was needed a little, but this is way too much. When characters wield two-handed weapons like knifes it looks unreal and destroys the immersion as it looks too far-out.
Personally I would have loved a pace between the first game and this.
 

Removed the Dialogue wheel:
Personally I really don’t care about if it is a wheel, a triangle or something third. However I really dislike that I am not able to see what sentences/specific words that I am about to say. Again it ruins the immersion of the character as you often end up saying something that you really didn’t want to say.
 
 
Removed two-weapon fighting from the warrior class
What is that; was it really necessary to do that in order to make the rogue class more attractive to play. You don’t make a sequel greater by limiting the options that were available before. Instead you should have improved the weapon options for the warrior class by introducing spears, halberds and other pole arms with unique weapon range bonuses.
Give the rogue class some other unique abilities instead of removing them away from the other classes, especially when it comes to abilities that many players favor.
 
 
Open lock is only available to the rogue class
This one is a minor thing, but again I don’t get the design team.
Dragon Age is one of the only RPG games I know where it is only the rogue class that is able to open a lock. In almost all other RPG games there exists an “open lock” spell or it’s possible for warriors to break open chests and doors.
Again it looks like the design team has problems making the rogue class attractive and therefor only makes it available to them.
Hopefully the modders out there will provide a solution again, making it possible for both mages and warriors to get the above mentioned abilities, as they also did with Origins.
 
 
Removed the Strategic View:
This is one of the biggies, again what are the designers thinking.
I know that the function was only available on the PC version and they sold most copies on consoles, but come on. You are ruining one of the greatest aspects of the game, removing strategy from the game doesn’t make it any better, it just makes it more boring.
Example, you have also removed any need of strategic placement for the rogue regarding backstab, in Origins you needed to be on the side or behind your target in order for it to work. In Dragon Age II you axed that with a Houdini trick, where the rogue vanishes in thin air only to reappear behind the target and backstab, no strategy necessary, only mindless attack-that-target-clicks.
That is not improvement; it is axing and oversimplifying one of the game’s great strengths.
 
 
Removed Skills
Again why was this necessary, the character skills were a nice part of your characters limited development options. I agree with many players that not all skills were useful, but removing skills entirely only makes character development and replay value more limited.
 
 
Removed most armor and customization options from all companions
Personally another design decision I can’t follow. Bioware did the same thing with Mass Effect - in the first game you had lots of equipment options, but when they released the sequel, you couldn’t change the armor of your companions, actually you could barely change your inventory, and no weapons had any statistics anymore.
Again sequels don’t get better by removing options, especially regarding character creation, customization or equipment options. Are the development schedules really that tight that you needed to remove important things like this in order to make the deadline? Sad…
 
 
 
Ending comments:
 
Will I play Dragon Age II, of course I will. I have preordered my signature edition and I am way too curious about the sequel of one of my favorite games, to just let it go because of catastrophic design decisions.
However I am sad that Bioware has decided to remove so many good aspects of a fantastic game.
 
If you have read this far, thanks for your interest, I needed to give Bioware a little personal rant, I hope I haven’t stepped on your toes as well, if so you have the apology of an old frustrated video RPG gamer and Dragon Age fan, who just can’t understand modern videogame producers’ design decisions anymore.
 
Why turn one of best RPG titles (if not the best) of several years, into a limited action game? Because of better console sales..?
 
Sad.. Posted Image
 
Hopefully the final product will have some great surprises.
 
  
PS:
I know most of you probably don’t agree with me, but before you start flaming-away, know that I didn’t write this to start a debate with you. Instead I needed tell Bioware that I don’t agree with the direction the game is taking.

#5545
T-Rock1209

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[/quote]

I'm willing to bet you enjoy Fox News.  I'm saying Bioware has taken a step that leads down a different path that does not interest me at all.  The dialogue system has been boiled down into 3 one-dimensional character choices for every situation (choices that often times are not even remotely represented by Hawke's reponse). Do you think Hawke's sister, mother, Flemeth, or Isabela's chest are going to deflate between now and the release?  They're not.  They distract from the actual game (and not in the OMG BEWBS way, but the this is ridiculous way).  I'd be just as put off if all of the male characters had soda-can bulges running down their right thigh.

If you'll notice, I had nothing to say about the storytelling and character interaction, which forces me to wonder what you're on about.  I noted what I did not like about the game (as I've noted what I did like elsewhere in this thread) just as the opening post invited me to do. 

[/quote]

Haha. What? Fox News? Ohh, I get it. Because we disagree I must be one of those ignorant, crazed tea party 'Publicans! I love it when people use their political alignment as a platform for intellecutal condescension. Shows how inflated their sense of opinion is. If you would actually read my post instead of getting in a tizzy because I disagreed with you maybe you'd better understand what I'm saying. Which is--

Your making a judgement on an entire dialogue system based on 4 conversations you had in the demo. Isn't that a little premature? Not to mention the fact that there are several occassions where you are offered morally ambiguous responses (conversations with the 3 circular arrows). As for the "bewbs" my point wasn't whether or not they'd deflate but the but that is it really that serious? Are large boobs THAT distracting that they could turn you off of what could be an engrossing story? 

Now, as for my character/interaction statement. You basically said that Bioware is moving away from what it always did best but only cited complaints about the dialogue wheel and breast size. My point was characterization and story telling are what Bioware does best but you made no complaint on either of those topics. 

Oh, yeah. Palin for President! Wooooo! :wub:

#5546
Xatrez

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Everyone is complaining about the PC version having weak graphics, but what these people don't
realize is that DX11 isn't supported in the Demo so our top of line PC's can get the fullest from the
game. Just wait until the retail version comes out. Plus i played DA:O and Awakening on PC
because of the modding community. I love those custom sets of armor and weapons what console
users can't get. You can clearly see that each version will have its pros/cons.

Modifié par Xatrez, 25 février 2011 - 02:45 .


#5547
Sidney

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Brimleydower wrote...

It's not just the reduced number of options, it's having a clear-cut "Good Guy, Funny Guy, Bad Guy" label slapped onto each of the three decisions.  Once more, this boils down to character investment.  RPGs should make you care about the decision your making, the answers you're giving, and the choices you're facing.  "Good Guys pick #1" is terribly unimaginative and basic.


There are not a reduced # of options. That's just bunk so you are wrong there.

As for the icons, seriously unless you had a major learning disability you spotted the good guy and bad guy options in DAO and BG2 and in both games the "good guy" option was option #1 and the bad guy option was #2 in almost all cases.  Hell in FO good it usually the first option out of the bag as well because that is really the "happy path".

It isn't like developers try and hide what these options do - they shouldn't since it makes it harder for me to do what I want  and select the responses that make the most sense for the way I'm playing my character. That's what investment does. I'm not sure how having information makes it harder to invest in your character so most likely you are griping for no good reason.

#5548
Kileyan

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The new wizzbang faster graphics annoyed me in later parts of the demo. Perhaps it was because our hero had default weapons and armor, rather than cool more advanced weapons and such.

I am getting a total disconnect from the game. All my toons are jumping around doing crazy looking, admittedly fun looking moves, but they don't tie in to what is happening to the enemies. It is kinda like you did half the job. You put in the fun crazy maneuvers, but didn't really tie them to the game and make it feel like they were anything. They might have well have been stutter slash, slash, stutter slash slash. My mighty warrior leaped forward with a yell and a glowing sword swing trail and did *plink*, a little damage.

I think people refer to this as the weight of the combat moves. It never felt like the damage done, reflected the work you put into the animation. Maybe some more work, even post release should be put into balance of the auto attack flashy moves vs the big damage activated attacks, just giving my input.

#5549
aMammothrpg

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cabbagesoup wrote...
I seriously doubt you played all the old RPGs if you like this one so much.
What on earth does this have in common with a true RPG D&D style and most of the games young man who still lives with momma (I can tell) you've quoted are action RPGs:devil:



I still have them all sitting next to my TV in the living room, and my wife plays them too :P

Anyway, if you know DnD you also know that immersion is a choice and not something the developers give you.  RPGs give you the chance to play a role other than a normal every day human, and wanting something thats "realistic" is not in true RPG fashion.  DA2 demo gives me a role (thats not average-every-day) to immerse myself in, just like the games I quoted.

#5550
alan614

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I can see stat driven combat is still here in the game, but what I see it as being less tactical is that there is less of a need for positioning. Perhaps, this is what they meant from removing shuffle, or a result of having only four party members at a time.



In any case, it seems you can just pretty much leave your party members where they are, heck, Bethany was pretty sturdy having 3-4 darkspawns attack her, and not going down for a long time, and this was in the second Ogre battle, after Varric's exaggerated version. Mages are spellcasters not martial artist, so the twirling staff seems to be a bit excessive, that is unless they allow multi-classing of mages to monks here.



Anyway, back to tactical positioning in my view, you should be worried about where you place your mage, they should be in grievous danger should a melee attacker get close to them hence you'd be forced to protect them, either putting them at the back or sandwiching them with fighters.

Also with the DW rogue, the backstab ability is a bit too easy. One keypress makes you disappear and reappear and backstab instantly, it's like an assured critical hit. This especially becomes sillier when you're surrounded by opponents and you can still execute this move. While I appreciate that this is a fantasy game, it's a bit too cartoony, I expected backstab to have been a passive ability where should you get your opponent unaware or distracted such as being attacked by another party member, you would roll for a chance of hitting a vulnerable sport and causing a critical hit.



Anyway, final judgement would be when this game actually comes out. But it's those two instances above thus far is what gives me a less tactical feel, because in the battlefield, your formation and position is just as important as your abilities.