8659 réponses à ce sujet

[Sandy2009]

caslav wrote...

Yes, apparantly the people that have bought the game, played it for a long long time, enjoyed it, mede it their favourite game, are not so important as the people that did not buy the game or did not play it for longer than half an hour.

This paradox makes me sad (worlds tiniest violin, some would say), but from the economic point of view it does make sence....the people who liked the first game will shurely buy the second...so we need to attract others.

From the moral point of view, it does not.

lots of companies have mistakenly assumed that their loyal customers will not leave them. Consumers are very smart in this internet age. They owe allegience to good products, not to companies. People running Titanic also throught it cannot sink.

[Dubya75]

Sandy2009 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

I think the real problem here is that YOU think you are in a position to define what Dragon Age is and what it isn't.
Sorry to say this is not your call.

End users always define what products get made in consumer society. What are you talking about????

If the players who like DAO don't buy DA2... who will???

Like I mentioned before, Bioware has incorporated a lot of things into DA2 that the GAMERS wanted (yes the Dragon Age gamers) and removed stuff that annoyed the GAMERS.
People **** and moan about everything! From the graphics, to the gameplay, to the story line.
What was Bioware meant to do? Give the story over to the community to be written? What should they have based their choices for DA2 on? Should they have simply continued the Warden's story for all future DA games?
It seems like the only way to keep people satisfied is to not change anything. That is NOT progressive. If Dragon Age 2 ended up just another "sequal" with the same graphics, the same gameplay, the same mechanics, don't you think it would quickly fall behind in the industry?
Same way people are still whining about Baldur's Gate. Would Bioware have been able to survive if today's games were identical to games of 10 years ago?
Come on, get real!

[Erika T]

JimWarp93 wrote...

1Nosphorus1, you are right...

I'll have to add the booob thing...

But come on Bioware, what's up with all this badass-superhero-hypercool-enemies-split-in-half-f-cup-boobey attitude? We're adults...

DAO was a "mature" game (despite the blood spatter), which cared about decisions and showed us the ambivalence (and corruption) of people(s) and societies. DA2 in comparison (considering the demo and the trailers) seems to be numb and dumb...
Well, bioware still has time to convince me otherwise...

I could not quite put it into words what i felt about the demo but you just did it for me. 

im getting sadder and sadder every time i play it, and thats unexpected as i was hoping to "get used to it".  sometimes i wonder if it would be better not to buy and play the game, just so that i dont get completely disappointed?  at any rate, i can still play DAO anytime and its the perfect game for me

[Val Seleznyov]

I replayed the demo last night, and noticed a new cut-scene that i didn't see the first time around. The one that introduces Aveline.



I'm thinking that i pressed x to attack at the exact same time the cut scene started, so accidentally exited it.



Will there be any way to change it so that a different button skips the cutscenes?

[anyoldname]

wojciec wrote...
I'm sorry to say that more and more games are being simplified to suit the younger generation who CBA to read a page of text in a game journal, or a whole line of dialogue without it being read to them, fidgeting in the equipment pack to look for a weapon/armor with better stats because adding numbers is stupid and annoying. No offence to anyone but look around, lots of games share that fate. At least that's what I think.

That's unfortunate. Older people tend to have more income for this sort of thing. I bought DA:O and all DLC for it, followed by Awakenings and Golems and Witch Hunt. If I liked DA:II, I would probably purchase the complete set for it. (Correction: I've just remembered I never bought the feast day pranks DLC).

Also, as another poster said, some of these changes are based on the idea that loyal customers wont leave them so they think: 'if we change this, we can bring in more of x sort of tastes'. They neglect that it might also lose them many customers.

I guess we will see.

[Sandy2009]

wojciec wrote...

Sandy2009 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

I think the real problem here is that YOU think you are in a position to define what Dragon Age is and what it isn't.
Sorry to say this is not your call.

End users always define what products get made in consumer society. What are you talking about????

If the players who like DAO don't buy DA2... who will???

I'm sorry to say that more and more games are being simplified to suit the younger generation who CBA to read a page of text in a game journal, or a whole line of dialogue without it being read to them, fidgeting in the equipment pack to look for a weapon/armor with better stats because adding numbers is stupid and annoying. No offence to anyone but look around, lots of games share that fate. At least that's what I think.

The kind of consumers you have described don't have money to buy the games in first place. They will just rent it from blockbuster for a weekend, finish hack & slash, return it monday morning and go back to school. It is the older population who have the money and intellect to enjoy mature games. If companies want to cater to younger audience they can do so without hurting the mature group (make saperate product for them).

[Dubya75]

Erika T wrote...

JimWarp93 wrote...

1Nosphorus1, you are right...

I'll have to add the booob thing...

But come on Bioware, what's up with all this badass-superhero-hypercool-enemies-split-in-half-f-cup-boobey attitude? We're adults...

DAO was a "mature" game (despite the blood spatter), which cared about decisions and showed us the ambivalence (and corruption) of people(s) and societies. DA2 in comparison (considering the demo and the trailers) seems to be numb and dumb...
Well, bioware still has time to convince me otherwise...

I could not quite put it into words what i felt about the demo but you just did it for me. 

im getting sadder and sadder every time i play it, and thats unexpected as i was hoping to "get used to it".  sometimes i wonder if it would be better not to buy and play the game, just so that i dont get completely disappointed?  at any rate, i can still play DAO anytime and its the perfect game for me

I cannot understand how people can make such premature judgement on this game! You've played a few battle scenes! That's all! And you use that to base the whole game on? Are you serious?

[Iconic_N7]

Remember that its just a demo. The actuall game might be tweaked in some areas where the forums were complaining before DA2 went gold. What can i say, Im optimistc.

[caslav]

Sandy2009 wrote...

caslav wrote...

Yes, apparantly the people that have bought the game, played it for a long long time, enjoyed it, mede it their favourite game, are not so important as the people that did not buy the game or did not play it for longer than half an hour.

This paradox makes me sad (worlds tiniest violin, some would say), but from the economic point of view it does make sence....the people who liked the first game will shurely buy the second...so we need to attract others.

From the moral point of view, it does not.

lots of companies have mistakenly assumed that their loyal customers will not leave them. Consumers are very smart in this internet age. They owe allegience to good products, not to companies. People running Titanic also throught it cannot sink.

I know that Bioware has several "branches"...that make different games.... I'm guessing that couple milion people, myself included, will earn them hundreds of millions, billions maybe, in next couple of years by playing Star Wars:  The Old Republic... I do not know how their company works, but it seems to me that that proffit could easily cover any financial setback made by any other game.

[anyoldname]

Dubya75 wrote...
Like I mentioned before, Bioware has incorporated a lot of things into DA2 that the GAMERS wanted (yes the Dragon Age gamers) and removed stuff that annoyed the GAMERS.
People **** and moan about everything! From the graphics, to the gameplay, to the story line.
What was Bioware meant to do? Give the story over to the community to be written? What should they have based their choices for DA2 on? Should they have simply continued the Warden's story for all future DA games?
It seems like the only way to keep people satisfied is to not change anything. That is NOT progressive. If Dragon Age 2 ended up just another "sequal" with the same graphics, the same gameplay, the same mechanics, don't you think it would quickly fall behind in the industry?
Same way people are still whining about Baldur's Gate. Would Bioware have been able to survive if today's games were identical to games of 10 years ago?
Come on, get real!

The corrollary to "Change or die" that needs to be remembered, is "The change must also be one that helps keep you alive". I would love to see an improved DA:O as the sequel. I don't want or expect it to be exactly the same. It's a false argument to say that in being critical of what I've seen so far in the demo, that I must therefore want it to be identical to the first. But I don't want to lose the things I liked about DA:O. That's reasonable enough, surely?

[Polyester74]

Having read a lot of the posts, it seems that everytime some dislikes something, they're perceived to be moaning, complaing and b****ing.



Well, if they dislike something, then of course it's going to be a negative comment! Why can't people just post that they 'dislike' something without being attacked as miserable little whiners?

[Sandy2009]

caslav wrote...

Sandy2009 wrote...

caslav wrote...

Yes, apparantly the people that have bought the game, played it for a long long time, enjoyed it, mede it their favourite game, are not so important as the people that did not buy the game or did not play it for longer than half an hour.

This paradox makes me sad (worlds tiniest violin, some would say), but from the economic point of view it does make sence....the people who liked the first game will shurely buy the second...so we need to attract others.

From the moral point of view, it does not.

lots of companies have mistakenly assumed that their loyal customers will not leave them. Consumers are very smart in this internet age. They owe allegience to good products, not to companies. People running Titanic also throught it cannot sink.

I know that Bioware has several "branches"...that make different games.... I'm guessing that couple milion people, myself included, will earn them hundreds of millions, billions maybe, in next couple of years by playing Star Wars:  The Old Republic... I do not know how their company works, but it seems to me that that proffit could easily cover any financial setback made by any other game.

Online gaming it tough market to break into. There are already well established franchises (WoW, Guild wars). It requires gigantic resources upfront from company (servers, connections) to start attracting customers who are just one click away from running into next cool thing. Billions in profit... how do you know?

[caslav]

Sandy2009 wrote...

caslav wrote...

Sandy2009 wrote...

caslav wrote...

Yes, apparantly the people that have bought the game, played it for a long long time, enjoyed it, mede it their favourite game, are not so important as the people that did not buy the game or did not play it for longer than half an hour.

This paradox makes me sad (worlds tiniest violin, some would say), but from the economic point of view it does make sence....the people who liked the first game will shurely buy the second...so we need to attract others.

From the moral point of view, it does not.

lots of companies have mistakenly assumed that their loyal customers will not leave them. Consumers are very smart in this internet age. They owe allegience to good products, not to companies. People running Titanic also throught it cannot sink.

I know that Bioware has several "branches"...that make different games.... I'm guessing that couple milion people, myself included, will earn them hundreds of millions, billions maybe, in next couple of years by playing Star Wars:  The Old Republic... I do not know how their company works, but it seems to me that that proffit could easily cover any financial setback made by any other game.

Online gaming it tough market to break into. There are already well established franchises (WoW, Guild wars). It requires gigantic resources upfront from company (servers, connections) to start attracting customers who are just one click away from running into next cool thing. Billions in profit... how do you know?

You've got a point there...admittingly, it may be part my whishfull thinking, cause I really want that game to succeed :innocent:

[frufallan]

Utterly disappointed. This time around it seems they aimed for twelve year olds. Producers can not possibly be RPG fans themselves. No buy.

[Wivvix]

Dubya75 wrote...
Like I mentioned before, Bioware has incorporated a lot of things into DA2 that the GAMERS wanted (yes the Dragon Age gamers) and removed stuff that annoyed the GAMERS.

This is just disingenuous. The community feedback on Dragon Age Origins was overwhelming positive. The delineation of the franchise from Dragon Age Origins into Dragon Age 2 was precipitated by a minority of Dragon Age gamers, but overwhelmingly people who didn't constitute the existing community, and rather people who WEREN'T customers. As Silverman and others at Bioware have pointed out, Dragon Age 2 seeks to attract gamers who play Call of Duty. Yes, that's right. Call of Duty. Don't believe me?

Read it for yourself.

Fernando Melo, Senior producer wrote...
“We have data that shows there are a lot of people that enjoy playing
RPGs although they won’t necessarily call them RPGs. They’ll play
Fallout, Assassin’s Creed and even Call Of Duty, which have these
progression elements – you’re putting points into things – but they
don’t necessarily associate that as an RPG. So we think that if we
expand that out we’ll attract a much bigger audience.”

Dubya75 wrote...
People **** and moan about everything! From the graphics, to the gameplay, to the story line.

You mean like DA2's intended audience did about Origins, saying it was boring, the graphics were bad and the gameplay was too slow and cumbersome?
Well at least we know EXACTLY what to do to get Dragon Age 3 back on the rails.

Dubya75 wrote...
What was Bioware meant to do? Give the story over to the community to be written? What should they have based their choices for DA2 on? Should they have simply continued the Warden's story for all future DA games?

Of course not. It doesn't mean they go from producing quality adult content to pre-teen/teen games however.

Dubya75 wrote...
It seems like the only way to keep people satisfied is to not change anything. That is NOT progressive.

Total strawman argument. Look at CD Projekt Red and Bethesda. They've both evolved their previous games within the franchise, and managed to make significant improvements without alienating the core constituency of their product; in Bioware's case with Dragon Age the BG crowd.

Dubya75 wrote...
If Dragon Age 2 ended up just another "sequal" with the same graphics, the same gameplay, the same mechanics, don't you think it would quickly fall behind in the industry?

How could it possibly fall behind the industry? Nobody else is making a party-based traditional dice-roll western RPG like this. Bioware was the only crowd. Why do you think the BG crowd and subsequent DAO community loved the game so much? It filled a long-standing void in the western RPG community.

Dubya75 wrote...
Same way people are still whining about Baldur's Gate. Would Bioware have been able to survive if today's games were identical to games of 10 years ago?
Come on, get real!

You really don't seem to get it. People play dice-roll traditional RPG's because they're consistent. The core elements are consistent. We like these games. We don't want action RPG's with character animations that resemble graphical artifacting. That's what Mass Effect 2 and Jade Empire are for. Go and play Fable if you want an action RPG for teenagers.

It's true DA2 was never a sequel to DAO. It still represents the total derailment and delineation of the franchise however, which from the outset was marketed as a traditional dice-roll RPG. That fact is inescapable.

Modifié par Wivvix, 26 février 2011 - 02:03 .

[Erika T]

Fair enough everyone who said "dont judge it by the demo, wait for the full game".

As much as i think we all are entitled to voice our opinions here (and mines are not positive right now), its a very valid point and i really hope that the full game proves me wrong. sadly it doesnt look that way.

[caslav]

Call of duty...what's next?



Enter EA executive stage right:

-Ok, people, I've just been informed that that racing game for ps3...gran tourismo sold like umbrellas in the rain....so let me hear your thoughts on Dragon Age 3?



game devs:

-well, we could make a racing track around kirkwall...

-hm...yes...when I think of it, we did have those swoop races in Kotor...



-excellent!!! Make it happen!

exit stage left

[Boatking]

First impressions are from my time on the PS3 demo is that it just feels like a generic button masher with Mass Effect 2 mechanics thrown in. It felt just like playing the old Lord of the Rings games on the PS2 but with better graphics.

[biomag]

Things I don't like:



classes + weapon restrictions. I said it as it was announced and its as bad as it was. I hate it and I never will like it as such restrictions are always horrible and a sign of extremely lazy balancing&development.



Surroundings... they look so fake and empty.



Graphics & combat animation: Too much comic&manga. Isabella looks like a cheap fake pornstar (I ain't talking about outfit, but the body model). On the other hand I also like some aspects of the new style... but those shiny eyes, fat chins and horrendous boob proportions look just strange, while the manga-fighting is a little bit over the top. I like fast action, but this is more like a parody - which has also its merits.





I liked that the combat is more responsive. Story moments had some impact though the death of the brother/sister don't have a real emotional impact - the introduction was far too short and we know nothing about them at the moment of their death. Aveline's husband's death achieves a bigger emotional impact as you did it the right way. You get the connection between those two, while bro&sis are just some ordinary NPCs at that moment. The templar's death works thanks to empathy and Aveline's grief.



As I said, the new graphic has its strong points. I liked the outfits and the strong colors - comic style at its best. I just don't like the faces except for Flemmeth and Hawke's (both, male and female).





A huge minus: Loading screens in the middle of scenes. You simply broke the flow of the moment far too often at the wrong point. If a situation is that driven by the narration you can't stop for a few seconds to load the next sentence.





So far its been critique for most parts coming from me, which isn't a surprise as the biggest strengths of a Bioware game are characters and story - and a demo can't give you much. The little we saw I thought was good - except for the sibling's death that was poor man's cinema.

[TheRevanchist]

SLPr0 wrote...

So much crying from the Baldur's Gate crowd, seriously.

Why can't you see that DA2 is bringing together the two different styles of RPG player, the strategic micro manager AND the less strategic brute force hack and slasher?

You act like its some kind of high treason by BioWare to do this to "YOUR" game, but its not "YOUR" game any more than Mass Effect was "MY" game. Its their game they want to make the game accessible to the widest audience possible.

You still have the ability to micromanage tactics and your companions, you STILL can pause the action via spacebar and set up your next set of actions for the entire party, you still have YOUR game.

Its just now, for as much as I enjoyed DA:O for its story, I hated the combat, I hated feeling like auto-attack was my attack and my special abilities were for "special occasions", DA2 is allowing me what I wanted out of DA:O to play the game both ways and if you doubt that I was calling for this after DA:O's release go back through my post history and find the thread about Action-Oriented integration in a patch call.

DA2 is the perfect melding of what made DA:O great, and it adds the capability for people to play it in THEIR chosen style...not the enforced method that the Baldur's Gate purists seem to think that EVERYONE must accept for a title to be up to their standards.

I personally though Flemeth looked fantastic, perhaps thats what she looks like when shes not trying to look like a harmless old woman? Who knows, I definitely liked it.

Warrior play is outstanding, Sword and Shield or Two Hander (not sure if you can dual wield as a warrior yet, some things were locked) are just visceral and brutal its almost like what I expected from DA:O with the cinematics they did except instead of the cinematics looking much better than the game play the game play actually plays like the cinematics...and thats FANTASTIC.

Whats more I even did a second run through as a rogue and rogues have been wonderfully thought out, a lot of positional attacking and abilities that tie into them, tactical retreating built right into the class AND animated so you don't have to do it manually and end up stumbling through another spawn of enemies on accident while trying to let your tank regain agro. The DA2 rogue is absolutely amazing, literally everything I ever wanted out of the DA:O rogue but the DA:O rogue wasn't capable of it.

I'll probably do a final play through to check out the mage, -never- played mages in DA:O, I hated the class and I hated the way magic worked in DA:O, auto-attacking with a staff and saving mana to cast support level stuff cause you could barely afford to cast anything else was not fun, magic in DA2 looks big and impressive, like magic should look.

Simple facts are, its a different game, and DA:O will always be there for the purists, but I like this new direction they're taking with DA2, a lot, I think its going to make the game more fun for a much broader base of players the only thing I'm hacked off about is the lack of mod support. Other than that, seriously stop arguing about it, everything the BG crowd had in DA:O is there in DA2, yeah its a little more clicky and hack and slashy but yanno, you can still set up everything in tactics just like you did in DA:O, you can still micromanage every single character if you want to. Why's it such a crying shame that the games actually going to be more appealing now to action oriented gamers? God forbid the title make plenty of money and do well enough to keep BioWare at the top of the heap in regards to being the best interactive story tellers of the 21st Century.

(edited cause quick reply adds an extra after carriage return, seriously you think they'd have fixed that by now on these forums)

Best post in this entire thread this is.

[Aradace]

Polyester74 wrote...

Having read a lot of the posts, it seems that everytime some dislikes something, they're perceived to be moaning, complaing and b****ing.

Well, if they dislike something, then of course it's going to be a negative comment! Why can't people just post that they 'dislike' something without being attacked as miserable little whiners?

because in most cases (mind you not all) it's because the only reason they're complaining is because its basically because it's not identical to the last game they played for one.   And secondly, because in almost just as many cases, they have the belief that if they complain enough, that the devs will miraculously have this idea to suddenly go "Oh, you dont like it? Here let's push back the release date and redesign the game to be EXACTLY like origins just to appease you." Again, that's not the case all the time.  But it happens enough for it to be an issue.

[1Nosphorus1]

Dubya75 wrote...
Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately I can't take it seriously because you've not played the game.

The silly thing is, this is a demo feedback thread, not only is the demo meant to give the players possibly the best taste of said full game, but it's meant to an almost final representation of the product.

Name a game where the demo turned out to be nothing like the final product at all, and not only that, but the final product turned out to be critically acclaimed.

I don't think I've ever purchased a game of a demo that I didn't like before, but I'm doing this for Bioware's sake in the hopes that the story is actually quite good, but mark my words.

If this game is a flop, there will never be a return to the Dragon Age Universe.

[Francesca Galli]

Aradace wrote...

Polyester74 wrote...

Having read a lot of the posts, it seems that everytime some dislikes something, they're perceived to be moaning, complaing and b****ing.

Well, if they dislike something, then of course it's going to be a negative comment! Why can't people just post that they 'dislike' something without being attacked as miserable little whiners?

because in most cases (mind you not all) it's because the only reason they're complaining is because its basically because it's not identical to the last game they played for one.   And secondly, because in almost just as many cases, they have the belief that if they complain enough, that the devs will miraculously have this idea to suddenly go "Oh, you dont like it? Here let's push back the release date and redesign the game to be EXACTLY like origins just to appease you." Again, that's not the case all the time.  But it happens enough for it to be an issue.

Nonsense and you know it.

This is a Dragon Age 2 Demo feedback thread, isn't it? Well, negative feedback IS feedback as well, the most important kind of feedback I may add.
We're angry and disappointed and we want Bioware to know it.

[Aradace]

Francesca Galli wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Polyester74 wrote...

Having read a lot of the posts, it seems that everytime some dislikes something, they're perceived to be moaning, complaing and b****ing.

Well, if they dislike something, then of course it's going to be a negative comment! Why can't people just post that they 'dislike' something without being attacked as miserable little whiners?

because in most cases (mind you not all) it's because the only reason they're complaining is because its basically because it's not identical to the last game they played for one.   And secondly, because in almost just as many cases, they have the belief that if they complain enough, that the devs will miraculously have this idea to suddenly go "Oh, you dont like it? Here let's push back the release date and redesign the game to be EXACTLY like origins just to appease you." Again, that's not the case all the time.  But it happens enough for it to be an issue.

Nonsense and you know it.

This is a Dragon Age 2 Demo feedback thread, isn't it? Well, negative feedback IS feedback as well, the most important kind of feedback I may add.
We're angry and disappointed and we want Bioware to know it.

No, it's not nonsense.  Go surf some of the ME2 and even some of the Origins threads (And I mean more than just the first 10 pages) and youll see what Im talking about.  It's going to be more of the same when the full game releases.  What's nonsense is thinking otherwise.

[snfonseka]

Voice casting is not that good.

Animation of the two handed warrior is too fast, now you don't feel the weight of the weapons.

Is there a problem with sounds? Because I didn't hear dialogs clearly until I enable "force stereo sounds" (or something like that, can't remember the exact thing).