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Dragon Age 2 Demo feedback thread


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#6701
Akeso42

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My impression of the demo, the more I think about it, was a lot like my impression of C&C4; as a fan of the series I expected something else. I compare the sequel to the standard of the original and that leaves me unimpressed.
To be frank, I think E.A. is right now in a perpetual stream of taking games people loved with classic mechanics, and forcing/pushing developers to adopt more modern and "successful" mechanics.
First C&C 4 and now Dragon Age 2.
I'm sure there is some high level executive at E.A. who thinks that adopting more "market friendly" game mechanics will help games with older systems. I'm sure the argument is roughly that "look, this game has a newer mechanic and it sold great; you should do better with that same mechanic because you have a stronger IP." However, what seems to be happening instead is that it's strongly alienating the traditional fanbase of the series. Part of me thinks that DAII will see the same thing happen to it that happened to C&C4; a perfectly acceptable game being seen as terrible by it's traditional fanbase and that negative and vocal press reaction translating into an overall sense that the game is terrible.
Yes, C&C4 was terrible when judged against other C&C games and that's the problem; you judge sequels by the paradigms of their predecessor and production houses need to understand this. I can not help but feel the same way about DA:II

Modifié par Akeso42, 26 février 2011 - 04:52 .


#6702
Glorfindel709

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Aradace wrote...

Alathin wrote...

I played it through on the Xbox 360. I liked it buy the text size was painfully small....


Am I the only one that DIDNT have this issue? Seriously.  Im not trying to debase anyone who has an "older" TV or anything but maybe it's not the 'text' that's the issue but your television set?  A "good" TV now days really isnt that expensive.  A few hundred dollars/quids/euro/whatever your poison and you're all set.


Aradace, I've got a 31 LCD HDTV from Sanyo, and I didnt have a problem with small text at all.

#6703
Aradace

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Akeso42 wrote...

you judge sequels by the paradigms of their predecessor and production houses need to understand this.


Really? because ive never judged a game sequel based on it's predecessor and Ive been gaming for 30 years.  Quite a broad generalization you have there.

@glorfindel - good lol...didnt think I was in truth.  It was more of a somewhat point of "A decent TV comes pretty cheap now days." kind of thing XD

Modifié par Aradace, 26 février 2011 - 04:56 .


#6704
MadDjinn

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gah... 269 pages later... (I'm not reading all of that. Unless I want to finish when the game comes out!)



My feedback on the Demo: (PC version as I wanted to see if that's where I'd play it this time)



Overall, really good for a demo. Better overall quality than a lot of demos that have come out lately. I somewhat like the new art style, especially for the attributes section. (but that reminds me of an old game maybe)



I played each class (even did rogue twice to play bow/DW) and the DW Rogue just seemed to slaughter everything. backstab makes sense in this game (vs. trying to align yourself in the previous one) and made for quick work of the ogre. Every time it turned to look at me I backstabbed it then chained it from behind until it turned around and then I just backstabbed it again. Evade is great as well. I like how there's less 'overall' attributes and a bit more upgrades. There's only so many keys to use.



I found the warriors were the worst in the demo, just due to constantly having to heal. The mage was 'ok' and it definitely seems focus will matter a bit more here. After the first run, I just made Bethany take healing/Elemental Weapons/Heroic (something - forget) and winters grasp. Then had her cast those and stay away from everything. It did seem that the darkspawn took longer to kill, in general, but they also seems to be able to wail on my mages for a very long time before any real health concerns arose.



The fighting was pretty fluid as well. So that was nice. (especially the chaining giving different animations + the animations for closing distance with an attack)



The part I had big issues with was the tactics screen. The text boxes and the 'clickable' areas didn't line up at all for good chunks of the demo. (I think near the end of the first part/beginning of the Isabela part it was smoother) (I was also using my 40" 1080p TV to do the testing, just because)



Lack of DX11 support kinda sucked, but given that it looked ok in DX9, it can only get better when the game comes!

#6705
Akeso42

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Aradace wrote...

Akeso42 wrote...

you judge sequels by the paradigms of their predecessor and production houses need to understand this.


Really? because ive never judged a game sequel based on it's predecessor and Ive been gaming for 30 years.  Quite a broad generalization you have there.

@glorfindel - good lol...didnt think I was in truth.  It was more of a somewhat point of "A decent TV comes pretty cheap now days." kind of thing XD


Maybe you're the outlyer and maybe I am.  Either way, I think C&C4 shows very clearly what happens when you take a highly sucessful IP and change the mechanics completely; taken on it's own merit C&C4 was okay, but taken in the C&C paradigm it was terrible and it's that second judgement that controlled the market standard for the game.
However, as a Sociologist, I can tell you that in every median, people judget new interactions based upon the epectations of their preconcieved notions and epectation of like situations.    I simply think it's niave to state that individuals do not consider the standards and values of the source material when experiancing a new addition of the IP.

Modifié par Akeso42, 26 février 2011 - 05:02 .


#6706
ClaytonPetree

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OK, played through the entire demo again with the male mage.



I still dislike the video game feeling combat. There should be an option for 'classic melee' or something. There's obviously nothing realistic about a game with dragons and magic LOL but it would be nice to have a toggle to turn off the flipping ninja mage and rogue teleport animations.



Drinking a health potion in the middle of combat is unrealistic enough, but the new timers on that are annoying. If you have them, you should be allowed to use them for your 'turn'. I actually finished Awakening without using health potions.



I'll post again if I think of something.

#6707
TheRevanchist

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Aradace wrote...

Akeso42 wrote...

you judge sequels by the paradigms of their predecessor and production houses need to understand this.


Really? because ive never judged a game sequel based on it's predecessor and Ive been gaming for 30 years.  Quite a broad generalization you have there.

@glorfindel - good lol...didnt think I was in truth.  It was more of a somewhat point of "A decent TV comes pretty cheap now days." kind of thing XD

Indeed because I feel it's unfair to the sequal...nostaglia will almost always ensure the almighty predecessor will be better...I judge games on their own merits...not the merits of a totaly different game that happens to share a name.

#6708
Aradace

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Akeso42 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Akeso42 wrote...

you judge sequels by the paradigms of their predecessor and production houses need to understand this.


Really? because ive never judged a game sequel based on it's predecessor and Ive been gaming for 30 years.  Quite a broad generalization you have there.

@glorfindel - good lol...didnt think I was in truth.  It was more of a somewhat point of "A decent TV comes pretty cheap now days." kind of thing XD


Maybe you're the outlyer and maybe I am.  Either way, I think C&C4 shows very clearly what happens when you take a highly sucessful IP and change the mechanics completely.
I think however it's niave to state that people don't play a sequel with the expectations and values of the source material in mind.


Actually I dont...To me, what turns me off to a sequel is if it is too much like its predecessor....As I said before, this isnt the late 80s early 90s anymore where you can get away with cranking out a sequel simply by copy/pasting same mechanics to the sequel with some minor story changes.

#6709
blueruin

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Tommy6860 wrote...
You make good points. David Silverman, Marketing Director for Bioware,
stated that the overhead view will be able to be used across all
platforms for strategy, just like it was only on the PC version of
Origins. You can go to about 9mins. into this interview where he states
this. I have warning though, don't watch the whole interview, it's as if
he disses Origins altogether and makes it sounds as it was an
irrelevant game and that 2 is a totally different game. His description
of the differences between the looks in the Bracelian Forest and the
Deep Roads (as just one example) in Origins is almost laughable, aside
from being completely nonsensical.

www.youtube.com/watch


Am I misunderstanding this, or did he basically complain that it was a bad thing that there was too much detail in places like the Circle Tower in Origins?  And that the game was inconsistent because the Brecilian Forest and Deep Roads looked different?  What is he even talking about?

I played the demo through a few times on high setting at highest resolution, and it's still baffling me how half-assed the Blightlands and the new hurlock models look.  At first I thought the graphics looked like a step back, then I realized the graphics were actually better, but the art direction was much, much worse.  I guess it's just a matter of taste.

#6710
Akeso42

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kylecouch wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Akeso42 wrote...

you judge sequels by the paradigms of their predecessor and production houses need to understand this.


Really? because ive never judged a game sequel based on it's predecessor and Ive been gaming for 30 years.  Quite a broad generalization you have there.

@glorfindel - good lol...didnt think I was in truth.  It was more of a somewhat point of "A decent TV comes pretty cheap now days." kind of thing XD

Indeed because I feel it's unfair to the sequal...nostaglia will almost always ensure the almighty predecessor will be better...I judge games on their own merits...not the merits of a totaly different game that happens to share a name.


Baldur's Gate 2.   Enough said.

Aradace wrote...
Actually I dont...To me, what turns me off to a sequel is if it is too much like its predecessor....As I said before, this isnt the late 80s early 90s anymore where you can get away with cranking out a sequel simply by copy/pasting same mechanics to the sequel with some minor story changes. 


Actually, I think if we look at what sells and what doesn't, copy/pasting the same mechanics with new maps is still highly sucessful and sells very well.   Call of Duty perhaps being the strongest example out there.    Simply put, that does work as is one of the major buisness models of todays gaming industry.

Just to make a list off the top of my head of games that sell extremely well and are copy/pastes:
Halo
Call of Duty
Madden or any sports game
Civilization
Guitar Hero (until it was milked dry)
God of War
Gears of War
Battlefield
Superhero games (spiderman/infamous/prototype/hulk ect)
Resistance

This is just off the top of my head but the list goes on and on.

Modifié par Akeso42, 26 février 2011 - 05:13 .


#6711
Tommy6860

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Kide wrote...

Wivvix wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...
You make good points. David Silverman, Marketing Director for Bioware,
stated that the overhead view will be able to be used across all
platforms for strategy, just like it was only on the PC version of
Origins. You can go to about 9mins. into this interview where he states
this. I have warning though, don't watch the whole interview, it's as if
he disses Origins altogether and makes it sounds as it was an
irrelevant game and that 2 is a totally different game. His description
of the differences between the looks in the Bracelian Forest and the
Deep Roads (as just one example) in Origins is almost laughable, aside
from being completely nonsensical.

www.youtube.com/watch


I thoroughly recommend everyone watches the interview in full. It provides so much insight into how and why Dragon Age Origins devolved into Dragon Age 2, with all the inebriated glory of a PR waffling spinster who clearly enjoys hammering away at the A button after a few too many beers.

I almost died from a lethal dose of irony about DAO not having vibrant enough environments like brecilian forest, the frostback mountains, orzammar and the deep roads.....
Pay particular attention to the scenery from 2:00 to 4:00. It's a dreary, unimaginative and artistically dull smatter of shades of grey, red and black.

So many staggering contradictions and outright hypocrisy in that interview, I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware pays the publisher to bury it.


Definitly, everyone should see this video... It really opened my eyes where they went into the wrong direction...

SLPr0 wrote...

Why can't you see that DA2 is bringing together the two different styles
of RPG player, the strategic micro manager AND the less strategic brute
force hack and slasher?


You know it really is not bringing them together. They really took away the overhead vision and to me THAT was definitly the biggest tactical thing in Dragon age origins, and in any stragety game that I ever played. I do not like to micromanage my actions before hand I like to micromanage them in the precise combat, and I can't do it like I would want to do it, the way that I would really easily see the whole combat zone. It is a completly different thing to micromanage their action before any combat than to actually manage them in the combat, that made me feel more in control. This definitly was the last drop for me, so that I definitly would feel no happiness about playing this game....

There are a lot of action RPG:s or a lot more than the other kind of RPG games excpesially nowdays. And well Bioware wanted to take the path of the action RPG as well, I would not mind if it would have that aspect, but now it does not have any other aspect for me after the deletion of the overhead view...



Well, according to that  video with Silverman making inane remarks regarding Origins, I would recommend going back to about 9mins. into the video and you'll hear some good news regarding the tactical views. According to Silverman, all of that is coming back and will be included on all platforms (on the consoles for Origins, it wasn't available). Unless I misunderstood what he stated, it was good news to hear, because it was one of the criticisms the reporter brought up to him and he replied that it is not gone.  So, it was just not included in the demo and I can see why for keeping it simple, though it gave me bad vibes regarding the final cut.

#6712
Tommy6860

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blueruin wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...
You make good points. David Silverman, Marketing Director for Bioware,
stated that the overhead view will be able to be used across all
platforms for strategy, just like it was only on the PC version of
Origins. You can go to about 9mins. into this interview where he states
this. I have warning though, don't watch the whole interview, it's as if
he disses Origins altogether and makes it sounds as it was an
irrelevant game and that 2 is a totally different game. His description
of the differences between the looks in the Bracelian Forest and the
Deep Roads (as just one example) in Origins is almost laughable, aside
from being completely nonsensical.

www.youtube.com/watch


Am I misunderstanding this, or did he basically complain that it was a bad thing that there was too much detail in places like the Circle Tower in Origins?  And that the game was inconsistent because the Brecilian Forest and Deep Roads looked different?  What is he even talking about?

I played the demo through a few times on high setting at highest resolution, and it's still baffling me how half-assed the Blightlands and the new hurlock models look.  At first I thought the graphics looked like a step back, then I realized the graphics were actually better, but the art direction was much, much worse.  I guess it's just a matter of taste.


No, you didn't misunderstand him as those were some pretty inane remarks regarding forest and caves, worse yet was that he stated the pallette will be the saem across all landscapes in DA2. I also agree with your view of the art direction inDA2. I mean, com'on. If the demo scene is supposed to be Lothering after the Blight enveloped it, I seriously doubt that the area would look like it was hit with several 50megoton nuclear warheads, wiping it clean. Hell, even the landscape in Wash D.C. in Fallout 3 was recognizeable after the nuclear burn there.

#6713
anyoldname

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Aradace wrote...
You say "love affair" like it's a bad thing...It's called 'technology" and once again, "moving forward".  What? You think we should still be riding horses or whatnot just so we dont leave a sodding "carbon footprint" on the planet? Please!!!  By the time we have to worry about that, all of us, ALL of us here will be LONG dead and turned to dust.  So in truth, kyle's point is quite valid. Unless of course im misinterperating the tone of your statement lol.


It's incredible how I managed to say so much about "carbon footprint" and how we should all ride horses, just by using the words "love affair". :D

Cars sold really well from the earliest days of them. The first mass-produced car became an instant and overwhelming status symbol. I'm just asking someone to back up what seems like historical revisionism to me if they're going to use it as an argument for the commercial success of DA:II. I said nothing about horses.

#6714
anyoldname

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Lorianno wrote...

So my demo feedback...

Posted Image


So very, very worth a thousand words. :lol:

#6715
lilyforthewin

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Overall I liked the demo--it certainly got me very excited about the full game, which I did pre-order to get the signature edition. 

There were a few things that seemed lacking in the art direction.  I didn't really like the restyling of the darkspawn, I think they look like washed-out lizard people now, but it's a minor thing.  The ogre still looked pretty cool, though.  The areas around Lothering in the demo did seem kind of barren, and I'm not sure if that's just because it's the demo, or that's how the area has been redesigned, maybe to make it appear as if the darkspawn hack-and-slashed or burned their way to the village.  Either way, we're not spending a lot of time there, so I can deal with it.  I really liked what little of Hightown we saw in the demo, however, so I'm sure there's going to be some really cool scenery in the full game.

As for the voice acting--when I first learned that DA2 was going to be fully voiced, I was ecstatic.  I played KOTOR and I really enjoyed it but I didn't like that the main character was not voiced.  When I played DAO, I had the same feeling of, "Oh, I don't have a voice? :("  But eventually I was able to give my character a voice of her own and that worked pretty well.  Still, it was hard at times to overcome the blank expression on the Warden's face at moments that were SURELY very passionate indeed.  Either way, I did become accustomed to giving my character her own voice and I wasn't sure how well I would adjust to having that taken away. 

I was pleasantly surprised on that front.  I think being fully-voiced is great for DA2.  I wasn't sure about the voices at first but female Hawke's voice has really grown on me, I absolutely love her so far.  I only played one run through with male Hawke so I'm not sure how much I like his voice yet, but it didn't turn me off of playing him; that's a good start.  I played through a couple of times on each class and picked different dialogue options each time and I thought it was kind of neat how my choices changed some of Hawke's future dialogue.  I think it shows a nice consistency in the evolution of her character.  After all, if I choose forceful, blunt dialogue options, it doesn't make sense for her to suddenly be wishy-washy in all of her other dialogue.  Very cool, but it does mean I'll have to consider carefully what dialogue options I do pick so that I like what she says down the line!

Finally, the combat was both very different and refreshingly the same (I play on PC).  I loved the closing attacks and the relative lack of shuffling that occurred.  There was still a bit of it, especially when I had multiple melee characters all jockeying for position around a single enemy, but I remember my sword-and-shield Warden desperately trying to hack through Leliana or Alistair as they stood blithely between me and the darkspawn.  This was a really awesome improvement.

I think I will again be playing a warrior and then a mage.  I tried playing a rogue but the increased speed of the combat combined with the weird perspective changes anytime I switched characters or used backstab meant that I was quickly confused about my battlefield and it got a little annoying.  Still, Varric was definitely cool with all that archery so I may just make a rogue anyway and go that route instead.

The combat probably is a little TOO fast-paced for my liking, because it seems too superhuman and unnatural, but on the other hand it's very impressive to me visually and frankly I constantly spammed Adrenaline Rush in ME2 and *that* is hardly human or natural either, haha.

tl;dr I liked the demo and I am really excited about this game :)

#6716
watchawk

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Personally I must admit that I liked the graphics in the first DAO more as they at least tended to have some photorealism in them (with high details on PC) and helped make the entire game more immersive. Those in DA 2 make me think of a cartoon style not far away from DA Journeys. Add some unrealistic fighting style and you almost end up with Manga. But well, I can understand that Bioware tries to appeal to as large public as possible, better work on consoles etc.. Anyway while quite deceived I am still planning to get the final version to learn the story... And I believe there will be still some interest in DAO extensions made with the toolkit so maybe it is time to revive my half burried project...

#6717
Aradace

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Alathin wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Alathin wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Alathin wrote...

I played it through on the Xbox 360. I liked it but the text size was painfully small, and im not sure if I like the "Skip Ahead to this city and now you have a dwarf and hot pirate lady in your party" scene. I think it would have been better if you ran into these people and had dialogue options to help them. Also I noticed some glitches such as skipped/ muted lines. One of these lined happened when I first met flemeth.
However I do like the demo and plan on playing the game many times over.


The real game wont do that...was just edited for the demo.


Wait, the real game wont do what? Skip dialogue options with dwarf man and hot pirate lady or have those dialogue gitches... or both.


all of the above actually.  The "skip ahead to this city...." part was just for demo purposes only.  The article in this month's GI mag that goes pretty indepth into the first 5hrs of gameplay suggests theres quite a bit that goes on in between those scenes.


Thank God. You sir, have just put my mind at ease.


no worries mate lol...Id have probably thought the same thing had I not been following this game's developement closer than a vuluptuous blonde to Charlie Manson's cult lol.

#6718
Merci357

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blueruin wrote...
I played the demo through a few times on high setting at highest resolution, and it's still baffling me how half-assed the Blightlands and the new hurlock models look.  At first I thought the graphics looked like a step back, then I realized the graphics were actually better, but the art direction was much, much worse.  I guess it's just a matter of taste.


Good observation. You can't argue about taste, however, I think the graphics, animations, etc. are a step up, while the now used art style is sometimes a huge step down. I do like most characters and NPCs, Flemeth for example,but the dark spawn look just terrible.

On the demo itself - while I enjoyed it, as expected, the combat is to fast paced for me. I'm constantly pausing, not to issue new orders to companions, just to select new targets für Hawke.

Modifié par Merci357, 26 février 2011 - 05:26 .


#6719
TMZuk

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Tommy6860 wrote...
You make good points. David Silverman, Marketing Director for Bioware,
stated that the overhead view will be able to be used across all
platforms for strategy, just like it was only on the PC version of
Origins. You can go to about 9mins. into this interview where he states
this. I have warning though, don't watch the whole interview, it's as if
he disses Origins altogether and makes it sounds as it was an
irrelevant game and that 2 is a totally different game. His description
of the differences between the looks in the Bracelian Forest and the
Deep Roads (as just one example) in Origins is almost laughable, aside
from being completely nonsensical.

www.youtube.com/watch


:blink: I didn't know wether to laugh or cry watching this.... but I am now certain that Bioware/EA has lost it.

What... Is...He... On... About??? Or perhaps I should ask: What is he on? So, the Brecillian Forest did not look like the Circle Tower did not look like the Deep Roads, and thus it could be twenty different games? This has to rate as the worst nonsense ever spewed by a marketing department.

So, we were not paying attention to the details, so lets remove them.... :blink::o:D:D:D. I ~cannot~ believe this is the company who has made some of my favourite games ever. Bioware.... it'll take more than a little effort on your behalf to make me spend money of a product of yours again.

The interviewer is pathetic as well. "you know, the online complainers complain about this or this... understand, it is not I, of course. They are all idiots, but this is what they say... ". What a sad jerk. I wonder if there's a single person working covering the game-industry who has ball nough to actual journalism and ask critical quetions without sounding like an apology.

#6720
TheRevanchist

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watchawk wrote...

Personally I must admit that I liked the graphics in the first DAO more as they at least tended to have some photorealism in them (with high details on PC) and helped make the entire game more immersive. Those in DA 2 make me think of a cartoon style not far away from DA Journeys. Add some unrealistic fighting style and you almost end up with Manga. But well, I can understand that Bioware tries to appeal to as large public as possible, better work on consoles etc.. Anyway while quite deceived I am still planning to get the final version to learn the story... And I believe there will be still some interest in DAO extensions made with the toolkit so maybe it is time to revive my half burried project...


Well you do realize their going for a consistent look? They have an Anime coming...they already have comics, and the Facebook game...they want people to look at any of those and say "Hey that looks like Dragon Age" which is exactly what you get with a consistent theme amoung all of them.

#6721
Aradace

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Merci357 wrote...

blueruin wrote...
I played the demo through a few times on high setting at highest resolution, and it's still baffling me how half-assed the Blightlands and the new hurlock models look.  At first I thought the graphics looked like a step back, then I realized the graphics were actually better, but the art direction was much, much worse.  I guess it's just a matter of taste.


Good observation. You can't argue about taste, however, I think the graphics, animations, etc. are a step up, while the now used art style is sometimes a huge step down. I do like most characters and NPCs, Flemeth for example,but the dark spawn look just terrible.


honestly, the DS were one of the few things I didnt like about the demo in admendment to one of my previous statements.  However, to be quite honest (and in my own personal opinion) the DS in origins looked just as "generic" with only a few slight variations to them.  So to me, really wasnt too much of a "change" in opinion from origins in regards to the DS.
In fact, Im going to go out on a proverbial limb here and say I liked them "slightly" better than the ones in origins.

Modifié par Aradace, 26 février 2011 - 05:31 .


#6722
Eranelle

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My review on the game, PC version: http://diwafernandez...gon-age-2-demo/

#6723
Elishia

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After playing it once again, I have only one fitting summary :

Posted Image

#6724
Yrkoon

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blueruin wrote...
I played the demo through a few times on high setting at highest resolution, and it's still baffling me how half-assed the Blightlands and the new hurlock models look.  At first I thought the graphics looked like a step back, then I realized the graphics were actually better, but the art direction was much, much worse.  I guess it's just a matter of taste.

The demo is set to medium settings.  DX11   and anything higher than medium is unsupported in the demo, and in fact, makes the graphics look much worse.

But as far as art direction....  Dragons look better.  Isabella looks better....

Darkspawn look like ass.  Thankfully, this game isn't about Darkspawn, so hopefully we won't have to look at them  too many times.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 26 février 2011 - 05:34 .


#6725
Aradace

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Elishia wrote...

After playing it once again, I have only one fitting summary :

Posted Image

Not a very convincing arguement to either side lol.