8659 réponses à ce sujet

[Shayera]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

why say a whole game will suck at all when you've only played barely any of it?

Thats the only reason i didn't cancel my preorder (like my neighbor and another friend of mine did yesterday). But even if this demo is only a very small portion of the game, it leaves a sour taste... DAO is a very good game, DA2 looks to be less than its predecessor.

But this is one of the things you see in many games. Morrowind was big and had many options regarding the PC, they cut it down with Oblivion, Skyrim will be cut down (skills, options how to advance a char) again...

All this 'streamlining' or 'cutting the fat', as they call it, in addition to the action additions only makes these games uninteresting for me and a lot of people i know. If this goes on i'll have no choice but to stop preordering games (screw the items you get for preordering), and will rent the full game in a videostore before i decide if i'm going to buy or not.

Before this demo i would have blindly bought every game coming from Bioware (and 'til now i have), but now i'm not so sure anymore...

Modifié par Shayera, 27 février 2011 - 07:05 .

[Terror_K]

That's one of the stupidest facts about all this: that what we've essentially got is a complete Dragon Age reboot, and a grossly inferior one in almost every aspect at that. And the worst thing about it is that it was never needed. Usually it's unsuccessful things that have been a bit long in the tooth and need some kind of injection of freshness because they've got stale that get rebooted.

Dragon Age only had a single game prior to this, and it was stated as being a big success and BioWare's most profitable and popular IP yet... even moreso than Mass Effect. And yet despite being a big success, the thing's been pretty much retooled and rebooted. It never even got a chance to go stale... it had a great future ahead of it as an IP, and now it's been squandered, wasted and ruined with this half-assed sequel that appears to be going for a completely different audience than the first game did.

After the original game I thought Dragon Age could have been a great IP I could really sink my teeth into and that would provide a series of games for me with no equal. Now with DA2 I almost feel like forgetting the IP ever existed. I don't even feel like playing the original any more, because all I can think of now is that doing so will constantly remind me of this fetid piece of crap that game after it and redefined it into something I just don't like any more.

Modifié par Terror_K, 27 février 2011 - 07:05 .

[TEWR]

3. Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 conflicts 'already?'

I realize that, in demo terms, Dragon Age: Origins is barely in progress, however once the appearance of Isabella occurs, that changes, as she was accessible in the bar at Denerim shortly upon arrival post Lothering. That is a  glaring plot hole that was not resolved during the demo. 

That is, all my thoughts that I feel are important. I would like to see an option for the 'old' handling at least where basic attacks are concerned, the graphics don't look too dated and the animations are smooth, so artists and programmers definately deserve some compliments on that. Someone probably needs a backhand for the attack change though

what exactly do you mean by this? That you think it's odd that Isabella, who you meet after Lothering's destruction in DA:O, is also in Kirkwall? Because I assure you that's not the case. The demo jumped ahead from Lothering's destruction, to maybe say 6-9 months later. It's not a plot hole. they just skipped a lot of stuff in between so we wouldn't witness anything too spoilery.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 février 2011 - 07:11 .

[didymos1120]

Phoenix5707 wrote...

"Redesigned" Darkspawn... Bioware changed the ENTIRE species! They look like skeletons now and it F**ks up the whole lore.
 

Yeah, the old style hurlocks looked pretty skeletal too.  In fact, the new design looks less so because they have noses.  The old ones didn't, which actually exaggerated the "skull face" effect.

And let's be clear here: you're talking about hurlocks only.  We have yet to see what shrieks and genlocks look like when rendered in the new art style, and DA2 Ogres sure as hell look nothing like skeletons. 

I'm not a fan of all the little darkspawn details that have been altered either (I like the spiky teeth better, for instance), but all this hyperbolic rhetoric about how they're RUINED FOREVER is a tad silly.  The core design hasn't changed for either the hurlocks or the ogres.  

[Graunt]

Nash Latkje wrote...

I considered playing as a Warrior in Origins but never did. Having tried it out a bit via Aveline in the demo, I don't think I'll ever touch that class.

Warriors are not just "tanks".  You can opt to simply do damage, and they do this very well.  Can't really know for sure due to most of the available skills being hidden, but it's probably going to turn into something like this:

Rogue: high single target damage, with decent area of effect abilities and utility abilities (stunning flasks and such), with the option to also be a pretty good archer.

Warrior: Tank, or the option to do moderate single target damage with a huge amount of area of effect damage and also having slightly higher survivability than a Rogue, yet with much less utility overall.

You basically choose between a class that specializes in doing more damage to elites and bosses or a class that does quite a bit more to multiples at once (which have always been what you'll face the majority of the time).

ValentineMSmith wrote...
So far, just as in Origins the 2H warrior is high damage (DPS) and gets killed too easily, while the Swordn-Shield
warrior is a (necessary) tank.  I did my first PC in DA:O as a DW warrior, which is no longer really an option AFAICT, and had some fun. 

*Every* other complete playthrough was as a rogue or mage. Almost every party can use a SnS warrior, but unless the final game does more to make 2H warriors interesting I'll never use a warrior PC.  In fact, I'll probably be creating a lot of rogue PCs just so I don't have Carver hanging around constantly needing a healing pot...

The two-handed Warrior in DA2 (demo at least) felt more like the middle ground between the DA:O two-hander and dual-wield build just because of how much faster the weapons are swung this time around.  Have you even tried the two-handed Warrior in the demo yet?  Survivability was NOT an issue at all.

Also, WTH is up with the quote formatting on these forums?

Modifié par Graunt, 27 février 2011 - 07:15 .

[TEWR]

Shayera wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

why say a whole game will suck at all when you've only played barely any of it?

Thats the only reason i didn't cancel my preorder (like my neighbor and another friend of mine did yesterday). But even if this demo is only a very small portion of the game, it leaves a sour taste... DAO is a very good game, DA2 looks to be less than its predecessor.

But this is one of the things you see in many games. Morrowind was big and had many options regarding the PC, they cut it down with Oblivion, Skyrim will be cut down (skills, options how to advance a char) again...

All this 'streamlining' or 'cutting the fat', as they call it, only makes these games uninteresting for me and a lot of people i know. If this goes on i'll have no choice but to stop preordering games (screw the items you get for preordering), and will rent the full game in a videostore before i decide if i'm going to buy or not.

Before this demo i would have blindly bought every game coming from Bioware (and 'til now i have), but now i'm not so sure anymore...

I can agree with all of that. To be honest, I hated Oblivion because of the stupid faces everyone had. I couldn't keep myself from cracking up, but that's another story.

I can see how it may leave a bad taste in peoples' mouths, but I don't see why people will talk **** on a game they've played barely any of and say they won't buy it. it's just.... bad logic. Renting I can understand. Renting a game that you're afraid may not be as good as it's been hyped up to be is sound logic. You still play it, and can then draw an intelligent conclusion from it.

anyway, random side note. people are upset that Flemeth has a new look? To be honest, she just looked like some regular old hag in DA:O, not some powerful..... thing. i approve of the new look, now she seems formidable. I have a theory on who she really is, but that's not important.


edit: well, not so much agree, but I see your point and I respect it.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 février 2011 - 07:12 .

[Amyante]

@TEWR: Yup, the bird's eye view is isometric

In terms of Bioware making some last adjustments to the game before release, it's possible, though i wouldn't hold my breath. It's possible that isometric is PC only again and i was correct in that they'd keep the demo restricted to what was in all versions so the 'console people' don't feel like they've gotten a version with some things cut out of it, but such would include further playtesting and such.

My guess is they've either made the adjustments already, or it'd be included in a later DLC or patch or somesuch. To make these gameplay changes now would mean releasing a potentially bugged product this close to launch.

[TEWR]

didymos1120 wrote...

Phoenix5707 wrote...

"Redesigned" Darkspawn... Bioware changed the ENTIRE species! They look like skeletons now and it F**ks up the whole lore.
 

Yeah, the old style hurlocks looked pretty skeletal too.  In fact, the new design looks less so because they have noses.  The old ones didn't, which actually exaggerated the "skull face" effect.

And let's be clear here: you're talking about hurlocks only.  We have yet to see what shrieks and genlocks look like when rendered in the new art style, and DA2 Ogres sure as hell look nothing like skeletons. 

I'm not a fan of all the little darkspawn details that have been altered either (I like the spiky teeth better, for instance), but all this hyperbolic rhetoric about how they're RUINED FOREVER is a tad silly.  The core design hasn't changed for either the hurlocks or the ogres.  

shrieks and genlocks will not be appearing in DA2 because Darkspawn aren't the prime focus of this game and aren't really a threat.

Personally, I like the new Hurlock Emissary look. the regular hurlocks..... ehhhh......

The ogres.... I liked them with purple-ish skin, at least that's what it looked like, but I don't mind the new color they have.

[Gliese]

I like the dialogue wheel, I like the combat animations. Characters looks great, terrain looks bad (is this a Bioware trademark?). Combat was extremely easy, especially when I realised that I had a half dozen insta-heal potions. It's only normal though so I'm hoping that it will be significantly harder on nightmare and actually a challenge this time around, DAO was a dissapointment for me in this respect.

Modifié par Gliese, 27 février 2011 - 07:19 .

[TeamLexana]

Drakxii wrote...

I played it a few times and here is my feedback.

What I liked:
1.  I love the new talent system compared to the old one.  I hated DA:O's one, it was too simple and alot of the talents were just bad.  It seemed much better in the demo.
2.  As your clearly not going to make combat more tactical, I like the proved combat speed.  For all my runs but my sword and board, combat was quick and exiciting.
3.  I like having 3 compainons.  (not sure if this was in DA:O or not been a while)
4.  I hate the conv wheel but if you keep Inisiting on using a consolized system the tone does help alot. 

What I didn't like:
1.  The gore and animations are just way over the top.  It's like Bioware thinks they are making God of War 6 or something and not an rpg.  Emenies shouldn't explode when they get hit by arrows.  Emenies anrt just bag of blood that cover the floor and your mage after one swing.
2.  I do hope that the rest of the game won't be this linear... but I doubt it will be that much different.
3.  Why is sibing death specfic to class?  Why can't I pick my first talent?  Bioware STOP making non story choices for me. 
4.  Two-handed warriors are pointless.
5.  Why no skills?  RPGs should have skills, talents, and stats.
6.  Hurlocks just look dumb, they looked better in DA:O
7.  Bad UI.  I can't zoom out enough and half the time I don't know who is targeted.
8.  Menu bugs. 
9.  Must you have a letter box cutsceen every couple of minutes?
10.  Mobs just appearing out of nowhere, hid them or have them spawn off screen...
11.  The writing was a bit odd.  When talking to the witch she replied with things that didn't fit with hawke's statements.

*Glances*

WTF? Did u play the 2H? It's so OP now, it's not even funny. 2H's kick serious ass. I'm just afraid I'm going to have to dumb my game down and use Aveline to boring failtank with W/S in nightmare because Fenris and/or 2H warrior Hawke would straight up murder my entire party with FF, lolz.

[Dermain]

I liked the demo, although the rogues attack animations looked a little odd to me. I was also turned off a bit by the rather long cool down time for potions, hopefully that's only in the demo though.

I preferred the old darkspawn armor to the new version, but I can live with that, Although seeing as Hawke will be venturing into the Deep Roads at some point I find it rather hard to believe that genlocks will not be making it into the game.

[TEWR]

that's what David gaider said though

[Beazlebubble]

The voice acting for the protagonist and lack of dialogue options kill (or at least wound) my sense of immersion.

The combat animations are ridiculously overdone.  I actually feel embarrased for Hawke while she's striking all those ridiculous poses during combat.

Origins was great because it was an immersive roleplaying experience with fun combat.  DA2 still may be as good or better, but the demo focuses on showcasing exasperating (presumably supposed to be impressive) features. 

[Pedonecrophile]

To sum it up:
1.Gamma. I got it set to 1(most bright) and still everything looks dark.
2. Text colors. There's black text with red glow on dark-red background. I can't read it at all, for example.
3. Friendly fire - I do not think where should I place my fireball I just click.
4. Wave after wave of clones.
5. Dialogue - VERY dumbed down system. Always having <=3 options can't be compared to Origins with up to seven dialogue branches. 
6. Healing is worthless - 60 sec cooldown is a joke.
7. Camera. Very annoying - removed tactical camera puts DA2 further down the slope.
8. Graphics. Graphics is waaaay worse, than Origins. Cutting best performance options to DirectX 11
only is an awful decision - a whole lot of people are sticking with Windows XP and they'll have to play DA2 on low-graphics.
9. Tab button now, thanks to retarded camera, almost not showing enemies, so you have to point over every darkspawn to figure which of them is Emissary.
Overall verdict:
Game is seriously being dumbed down. More simple dialogues, more primitive graphics, more simple combat etc.
Thre's no improvement over Origins\\Awakening, rather than skill tree which I think is a good idea.
That reminds me about Civilization 5 - game have been so much simplier that CivIV that community just abandoned it after a while. Also, Tiberiul Twilight - developers decided to stick with massive innovations, and got one of the worst rated games in history. I understand that nothing can be changed now, but I hope that in addon\\expansion we'll get completely reworked system that may change at least some of DA2 flaws.

Modifié par Pedonecrophile, 27 février 2011 - 07:37 .

[Belhawk]

i liked what u did to the classes. Never did finish mage in da:0 (still @ level 10). Firestorm is cool, reminds me of meteor storm in Might and Magic 6-8.
didn't play 2H sword in DA:O, but i will in DA2, as well as mage too.
I also like the game being fully voiced.
Looking forward to the game coming out.

[iago1604]

At first, I was put off by the seeming hack-n-slash nature of the demo, but having played the demo some 37 times, I realized what BioW all-ready knew, and that is: once you invest in, not just skim, a BioW game you will be hooked, and any and all pesky "little things" just melt away as you become one with the DA universe. I cant wait to hit if for real!

[vadril]

This demo reminds me of something, and I just can't figure out what it is...maybe some game from my distant past.

Anyways, here is my short list of the good and bad...

The good...

1.  It clearly is a first rate production just like other Bioware games.
2.  I like the characters and their voice actors...particularly Hawke and Flem.
3.  The story from what little I've seen and read has strong potential.
4.  I like the skill trees.

The bad...

1.  The gameplay experience (combat and movement) reminded me of Tekken, but only if I'm watching Conan the Barbarian on Starz at the same time.
2.  This game is as Diablo 3 should be (not necessarily a negative).
3.  The scenery is quite horrendous in the bit I've viewed in the demo.

With all of this said, I'll probably end up buying and enjoying the game.  I'll just like it more along the lines of how I ended up liking Half-Life 2.  I didn't like playing first person shooters, but I picked up HL2 for 10 bucks and found out the story and quality of the game made up more than enough of the genre gap for me to enjoy it.  The same thing goes here with DA2 as it falls into the action category.  

As a side note, when DA2 goes on sale for half-price on steam with some DLC, I'll pick it up then (59.99 is too much for me as a PC gamer).

Modifié par vadril, 27 février 2011 - 07:56 .

[Graunt]

Terror_K wrote...

That's one of the stupidest facts about all this: that what we've essentially got is a complete Dragon Age reboot, and a grossly inferior one in almost every aspect at that. And the worst thing about it is that it was never needed. Usually it's unsuccessful things that have been a bit long in the tooth and need some kind of injection of freshness because they've got stale that get rebooted.

Dragon Age only had a single game prior to this, and it was stated as being a big success and BioWare's most profitable and popular IP yet... even moreso than Mass Effect. And yet despite being a big success, the thing's been pretty much retooled and rebooted. It never even got a chance to go stale... it had a great future ahead of it as an IP, and now it's been squandered, wasted and ruined with this half-assed sequel that appears to be going for a completely different audience than the first game did.

After the original game I thought Dragon Age could have been a great IP I could really sink my teeth into and that would provide a series of games for me with no equal. Now with DA2 I almost feel like forgetting the IP ever existed. I don't even feel like playing the original any more, because all I can think of now is that doing so will constantly remind me of this fetid piece of crap that game after it and redefined it into something I just don't like any more.

I'm just going to assume you've never played any of the Baldur's Gate games, Torment, Icewind Dale or any of the Neverwinter Nights games either.  That formula has been DONE TO DEATH and that's exactly what DA:O was.  A very boring formula that did need to change.  Every game essentially played the same, the only difference was the dialogue.

The actual gameplay from DA:O was not engaging at all and was extremely boring.  The gameplay from DA2 seems to be just as bad, but for a different reason.

So many of you are whining about how it seems like "an action game" when it plays exactly the same as DA:O did -- it's just over with much faster.  Instead of cooldown, attack, attack, cooldown, attack, attack, whew something finally died, it's cooldown, cooldown, attack, dead.  Instead of taking an hour to make your melee units get from point A to point B, they have much quicker options available.  No sense in arguing about "realism" in a fantasy game.  I'll take something that actually gets through the monotony faster than something that makes playing feel like a chore.

8. Graphics. Graphics is waaaay worse, than Origins. Cutting best performance options to DirectX 11
only is an awful decision - a whole lot of people are sticking with Windows XP and they'll have to play DA2 on low-graphics.

We must not have played the same DA:O or DA2 demo, because the demo looked much better than the default DA:O.  DA:O was extremely ugly without texture packs and other graphical mods and looked like a game that would have been nice to look at in 2004.

Modifié par Graunt, 27 février 2011 - 08:11 .

[abidingdude117]

Xbox 360

Positives:
-Combat is excellent.  Loving all the changes from DA:O.
-Voiced character really brings Hawke to life.
-Art style a definite improvement, particularly with the environments.
-Ability to command characters to move locations via the radial menu is a welcome change.
-New menu interfaces are very user-friendly and not so tedious as they were in DA:O, especially Start-menu
    features.

Negatives:
-Text size a bit too small; Still readable, but it does cause some strain on the eyes.
-Map is difficult to see, in particular the detail showing direction in which the character is currently facing. Really 
    missing the arrow leading to  active objectives.
-Inability to scroll the screen when commanding characters via the radial menu makes it difficult to
    effectively target distant enemies/locations.
-Ranges on combat skills (Warrior and Rogue only) seem limited.  Certain melee skills (Mighty Blow, Shield 
    Bash) will not activate until player is literally on top of enemies, but will not work even though player is in 
    percieved striking distance.

[EddySpeddy]

May be a little off topic here but...

I've always thought the rogue should have the option of Two Handed or Dual Wielding, from my point of view the Rogue is a heavy DPS, and the Warrior is a Heavy tank/Semi-DPS. a Two Handed Sword seems more like a DPS item than a Defence item, I think Rogues and Warriors should both have a Two Handed tree(e.g. Rogue has option of Two Handed or Dual Wield, and Warrior has option of Sword & Shield or Two Handed).

Modifié par EddySpeddy, 27 février 2011 - 08:15 .

[Lobo4600]

Abel Habel wrote...

I loved Dragonage in many ways. When I now started Dragonage 2 I was expecting to play a sequel to the same game but instead it felt like I was playing diablo 2 in 3D. <br />
<br />
The game crashed when I played as a rogue so I restarted as a mage. I could not bare looking at the animations the mage did when using the normal attack and I closed the game. It felt ridiculous seeing the mage doing overly pretentious moves when using the staff.<br />
<br />
I very much want to get into this game, for I believe there is more to it than surreal combat, so I have to give myself some time to prepare for a completely different game that I previously expected.

You had the same problem I did. You went in thinking you were going to play the sequel but its not. Its more of its own game. The flipping the staff thing the mages do made me laugh.

[moilami]

Terror_K wrote...

That's one of the stupidest facts about all this: that what we've essentially got is a complete Dragon Age reboot, and a grossly inferior one in almost every aspect at that. And the worst thing about it is that it was never needed. Usually it's unsuccessful things that have been a bit long in the tooth and need some kind of injection of freshness because they've got stale that get rebooted.

Dragon Age only had a single game prior to this, and it was stated as being a big success and BioWare's most profitable and popular IP yet... even moreso than Mass Effect. And yet despite being a big success, the thing's been pretty much retooled and rebooted. It never even got a chance to go stale... it had a great future ahead of it as an IP, and now it's been squandered, wasted and ruined with this half-assed sequel that appears to be going for a completely different audience than the first game did.

After the original game I thought Dragon Age could have been a great IP I could really sink my teeth into and that would provide a series of games for me with no equal. Now with DA2 I almost feel like forgetting the IP ever existed. I don't even feel like playing the original any more, because all I can think of now is that doing so will constantly remind me of this fetid piece of crap that game after it and redefined it into something I just don't like any more.

Very well written and I agree with you.

BG1 -> BG2 was win.
DA -> DA2 not so.

Instead of fixing bugs in DA and doing a new story they chose to do a whole new game.

[LuxLucis]

 I hate this new Dragon Age 2 look!  It's so cartoonish and stylized!  It really is now an action game.  I'll miss the more intimate, slower combat, grungy, natural, unique look and feel of Dragon Age 1.  This Dragon Age 2 feels so alien and different from Dragon Age 1 it feels like it should have been a different game and title of its own!  EA/Bioware why fix something that's not broken?  I don't want to play hack and slash Dynasty Warriors games.  I don't recognize Dragon Age 2 as a continuation of Dragon Age 1 in any way in terms of look and mechanics:unsure:.  It's like its a new game of its own.......

[LuxLucis]

I wonder what EA/ Bioware is thinking right now from reading these threads/posts? I wonder.....

[Lobo4600]

shadownian wrote...

Sidney wrote...

shadownian wrote...
1. alot of time and effort went into making the warden exactly how we wanted them...mutiple play throughs to get just the right outcomes etc.
2. the warden was a good character...even though mute...and could have been human...elf..dwarf etc. The making of a new lead character shows bioware was lazy and didnt want to make different stories for different races etc.
3. Its not just about the warden...its about his/her interactions and relationships with the other great characters...who also seem to have been thrown out.

This should be no shock from as far back as the DAO's pre-release they talked about Dragon Age being a setting not a character in contrast to Mass Effect.

How does going to the effort to create a new character show they are lazy? Lazy is just doing the same darn thing over and over again. In the end there's nowhere to go. The Warden either went with Morrigan or he didn't. Now for giggles you could have one story that accounts for both possiblities but man that would suck even more than Witch Hunt already did by making your choice there meaningless.

Enough about the $%^&# elves. They made no difference. They didn't write multiple stories for the different races...in the end it was all the same outcome with "the warden". You got a different tutorial level and some toss away dialog but the story was the same.  Go play PST and tell me how flippin' awful not being able to choose a race and background is.

Ok ill explain myself...
Fine...DA was a setting and not a character...ok good...plenty of good characters other than the warden that were introduced that could have been used for the sequel...that still could have used some of the choices made bu people who played part 1

How is creating a new character lazy...ill explain again....Its not to hard to come up with a generic male/female character...especially when the whole look is determined by the player. Having to take existing characters and tell where they all are...what happened to em...whered they go and why...what choices you made and how they effected the world...how your race/class impacts things..etc...theres alot of variables to deal with when doing an extesion of the first game...rather than an all out new person. With a new person you have no history...no choices to figure out different stories for etc. He just is...and then you hurry up and get him out of the known game world asap so none of the old choices can impact him or the game...that is how its lazy If I give you a story to create with ten possible branches of story...and each branch has another 3 possible routes...and those routes have more possiblities....It makes it extremely difficult for me to come up with a new story that matches all your possible choices...instead its alot easier just to make a whole new character.

And about it nieng the same at the end...yes you only had a few possible endings...but like I said you had alot of smaller choices along the way. Just like Mass Effect. Me had just a few endings but alot of choices on the way. Its those choices that the developers would have to acccount for and that would be too much work/time/effort.

Much better to make some unknown "champion"

Thats what I meant....hope i was clear that time

^ This right here is why people are pissed. The player put time and energy into making their Warden the way they wanted. Now the rug has been ripped out from under them and they are left on their ass going "What the **** just happened?" They feel as if all they did was a waste of time and energy because this "sequel" has nothing really to do with the first game. That leaves a bad taste in peoples'mouths. Now Bioware can't account for the possible outcomes so they went the easy way. What you get is Dragon Effect.