8659 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

The Ole Ultra Violence wrote...

The rouges "Miasmic Flask" ability and the lack of a skill screen suggests that they have been removed in the final game... why?. Some of my favorite moments in Origins, nay in every Bioware game, are when I convince someone to do my bidding with my maxed out charisma

So you'll most likely either remove that all together, which will diminish the role playing aspect and suck. Or implement the Mass Effect 2 "Morality=Charisma" system, which will now be out of place as well as being undermining and pointless(Mass Effect 2's greatest flaw, no doubt).

I'm hoping that I'm wrong and things will remain the same, but this system would be even worse in Dragon Age, a game that I believe prides itself on not being black and white

Overall, the combat is functional and I'm sure it'll still be fun, but it doesn't seem like it's going to make or break the game at this point. I'm still confidant in the story and characters coming through, so the game willl still proabably be really good, at least

You're talking about Coersion skills, right?

I think the devs said Coersion is still in the game, there's just no  assigned skill attached to it.     You'll still be able to intimidate, or use diplomacy in dialogue, but the latter's success will be based on your cunning score, and the former on your strength score.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 février 2011 - 11:01 .

[PangoJango]

Terror_K wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

2. No voicing of the PC ruined the immersion

That's a huge crock, IMO. I personally find it ruins immersion far more to have a voice thrust upon me when I'm trying to roleplay a character that's supposed to be mine. A silent PC is not an antiquated mechanic, it's a tool one can merely choose to use or not. By giving the PC a voice it's taking choice away from the player, and taking away not only how they sound but their personality and mannerisms. A voiced PC always results in less dialogue options, thus less variation and thus less choice and options for the player. This is largely due to budget, file size, etc. amongst other factors: a company can't record dozens upon dozens of PC voice tracks. Anybody who reads a book should have no trouble crafting a character to the point of being able to give their characters "their own voice" so to speak, and thus their own mannerisms and way they'd say things. Ironically BioWare believed the same thing while developing Origins but suddenly seemed to have changed their mind... probably because of all the whiners who said a silent protagonist was "archaic" and "ruined immersion" and the like because they've probably seen more TV shows than they have read words on a page. To me, giving my character a voice that I feel I should be giving myself in an RPG is like me taking another random person along with me to my weekly P&P RPG games, and giving him a very vague instruction everytime I want my character to speak and letting him just speak for me, whether the voice suits the concept of my character or not. It's going to be even worse in The Old Republic, where we have groups of Bounty Hunters all teaming up and all grunting in Steve Blum's tones. Nothing says "I created a character that's mine and unique!" like having them sound the same as everybody else.

3. Graphics that keep with the times.

If by that you mean all gritty, brown, grey and generic, then yes... DA2 certainly succeeded there. <_<

i agree about immersion, disagree about the graphics, besides DAO's were pretty blah/generic... probably worst part of the game. Worst part about this game, and i'm sure someone will state its been in another thread, Hurlocks look dumb now. oh well, thats not why i play.

[moilami]

Baelyn wrote...

Riceyy- wrote...

still no jump button..

This though...please...too much WoW ruined me...

Worry not, jumping ain't cool if none see you doing it.

[Skyweir]

Yrkoon wrote...

Wasn't commenting on the nature of the combat.    Was I.

Pretty sure you were. Original comment was about the combat being flashy, hack and slash and ruining immersion (this last bit I admit is pretty much a very subjective judgment).

Other commenters said that the poster had no reason to assume this based on the demo, and some insulted him and anyone drawing conclusion from the demo.

Yet where else can you draw conslusion from. Either you base them on the demo, or you are making them up. I know which I prefer.

[upsettingshorts]

Immersion is a subjective experience. For some, the unvoiced protagonist breaks it. For others, the voiced protagonist does.

[Graunt]

Terror_K wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

2. No voicing of the PC ruined the immersion

That's a huge crock, IMO. I personally find it ruins immersion far more to have a voice thrust upon me when I'm trying to roleplay a character that's supposed to be mine. A silent PC is not an antiquated mechanic, it's a tool one can merely choose to use or not.

You're in the minority with this one.  Before the Mass Effect games I found that a voice acted protagonist usually detracted from the overall experience (mostly just because the acting was bad or they tried combining voice acting with a lot of text choices).  After the Mass Effect games, I'll never prefer the text based only method.  It wouldn't be so bad if everyone in the game "spoke" through text, but when everyone but you is audible, "roleplaying excuse" or not, it's pretty jarring and kills immersion more than it helps.  You aren't even playing your character in this game anyway, you're playing a human named Hawke.

i agree about immersion, disagree about the graphics, besides DAO's
were pretty blah/generic... probably worst part of the game. Worst part
about this game, and i'm sure someone will state its been in another
thread, Hurlocks look dumb now. oh well, thats not why i play.

Both the combat and graphics (you know, that thing that made up the actual GAMEPLAY...) were pretty much tied for being mediocre to downright antiquated.  And yes, the Hurlocks look completely stupid.  Blizzardware must be what they are aiming for.  Lets keep World of Warcraft in World of Warcraft ok Bioware?  You've already adjusted your terrible UI for that crowd, don't really need cartoony clown models too.

Modifié par Graunt, 27 février 2011 - 11:21 .

[joffmonk]

Now that i have finally played all 3 classes ( i had to force myself to play a rogue) I'm even less impressed than I was before.
Darkspawn exploding when arrows hit them? eh? is the dragon age: first blood part 2? if so where is my M60 with endless ammo belt?
The dagger damage is amazing, I really didnt know a backstab would sever a corpse in several places at once! And when I got explosive strike I thought hmm "wait I thought thats what i had been doing for the last 5 minutes without pressing an extra button!"
If childishly over excessive explosive bloodshed are the mainstream sellers these days they got it spot on. hopefully I can turn off the rediculous insta-gib mode in full release.
Mechanics wise, archery was ok but for one anoying flaw, the knockback on archery attacks, my toon stood thier like a tool after every shot because the target moved out of max range. So I have to baby sit any archer toon because of random knockbacks, quite anoying and hopefully fixed in the full release.

Story wise, very poor, no remorse of the loss of a family member, not even a whimper and I will be very disapointed if this doesnt get rectified either in release or later in the game's story. dialog was very limited and pretty poor choice wise, the VA was ok except carver, man that dude is a complete douche.
Which brings me to my next flaw, I see the restrictions on playability now due thier choices effecting my own and have basicly limited myself to one playthrough for the following reasons.
Mage = keep carver which I hate, Rogue = cartoony manga fighting stile or archery ( archery wasnt too bad i guess) which I also hate, which leaves me with the warrior.
[Edit: forgot about this] the story being narrated removes the illusion of control I like to have as a gamer, no matter what decision I make the story will told as if it already happened, I really dont like that, even though I know all other RPG's funnel you through the story regardless of your decision it still moves on, I liked the illusion that my decision mattered in the progression. now it feels like it doesnt matter. maybe the release will change that, but i seriously doubt it.

obviously all this is my opinion, so any attempt to argue with that would be stupidity on your behalf, because you wont convince me otherwise
This is my feedback for Dragon Mass Blood Age First Instgib Part ][ :O

Modifié par joffmonk, 27 février 2011 - 11:27 .

[borelocin]

DA:Os graphics were lacking, which is why 4 of the top 10 mods were overhauls of faces, graphics and hair.

[Zetheria Tabris]

I played on 360, and I loved it. The faster paced combat was exciting.

The only thing I really hated was the text size! I could barely read anything! I hope there's an option to make the text bigger, at least.

[nightsinger]

borelocin wrote...

DA:Os graphics were lacking, which is why 4 of the top 10 mods were overhauls of faces, graphics and hair.

Well, then I hope there will be a mod that re-introduces facial expressions for DA2. 

[Terror_K]

The actual quality of the graphics is a separate issue completely from the visual redesign though. They didn't need to change how everything looked in order to improve the graphics; they merely needed to make them look better. 8-bit Mario is still essentially the same as N64-era Mario and modern Mario Galaxy 2 Mario; he's just more detailed each time. The same can't be said for Flemeth, Isabella or the Darkspawn from DA:O to DA2, or even things like how Templars are dressed now, etc. You don't have to reduce the colour palette to gritty browns and greys to make a game look better.

Modifié par Terror_K, 27 février 2011 - 11:32 .

[Baelyn]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Immersion is a subjective experience. For some, the unvoiced protagonist breaks it. For others, the voiced protagonist does.

Exactly.

I was not stating for or against any of those points I provided...I was simply saying this is what Bioware thought the general masses felt and wanted changed in a sequel.

I think gritty fits very well with the overall theme and direction of this game....but that is just my opinion of course as you are entitled to yours.

EDIT: For clarity.

Modifié par Baelyn, 27 février 2011 - 11:35 .

[Yrkoon]

Skyweir wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Wasn't commenting on the nature of the combat.    Was I.

Pretty sure you were. Original comment was about the combat being flashy, hack and slash and ruining immersion (this last bit I admit is pretty much a very subjective judgment).

Specifically, the original  comment was this:

LuxLucis wrote...

Dragon Age is dead....it's hack and slash fast pace no immersion game play now....

lack of punctuation aside, he was clearly commenting on the nature of the game (that it will be a hack and slash)

And so I asked:  how can one  reach such a conclusion of the game from playing a demo specficially designed to simply showcase combat?

The fact of the matter is that Bioware has never put out a hack'n'slash.  All their RPGs are story based.  There's no reason to believe DA2 will be different.

That said, the combat is obviously and intentionally  flashy. I don't think anyone  has argued otherwise.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 février 2011 - 11:34 .

[HawXV2]

Terror_K wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

2. No voicing of the PC ruined the immersion

That's a huge crock, IMO. I personally find it ruins immersion far more to have a voice thrust upon me when I'm trying to roleplay a character that's supposed to be mine. A silent PC is not an antiquated mechanic, it's a tool one can merely choose to use or not. By giving the PC a voice it's taking choice away from the player, and taking away not only how they sound but their personality and mannerisms. A voiced PC always results in less dialogue options, thus less variation and thus less choice and options for the player. This is largely due to budget, file size, etc. amongst other factors: a company can't record dozens upon dozens of PC voice tracks. Anybody who reads a book should have no trouble crafting a character to the point of being able to give their characters "their own voice" so to speak, and thus their own mannerisms and way they'd say things. Ironically BioWare believed the same thing while developing Origins but suddenly seemed to have changed their mind... probably because of all the whiners who said a silent protagonist was "archaic" and "ruined immersion" and the like because they've probably seen more TV shows than they have read words on a page. To me, giving my character a voice that I feel I should be giving myself in an RPG is like me taking another random person along with me to my weekly P&P RPG games, and giving him a very vague instruction everytime I want my character to speak and letting him just speak for me, whether the voice suits the concept of my character or not. It's going to be even worse in The Old Republic, where we have groups of Bounty Hunters all teaming up and all grunting in Steve Blum's tones. Nothing says "I created a character that's mine and unique!" like having them sound the same as everybody else.

3. Graphics that keep with the times.

If by that you mean all gritty, brown, grey and generic, then yes... DA2 certainly succeeded there. <_<

Way much more to it than that. Kirkwall looked fantastic. Better than everything in Origins except for Orzammar.

[Terror_K]

Baelyn wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Immersion is a subjective experience. For some, the unvoiced protagonist breaks it. For others, the voiced protagonist does.

Exactly.

I was not stating for or against any of those points I provided...I was simply saying this is what Bioware thought the general masses felt.

Because of course "the masses" are always right, and one always has to make and design a game for "the masses" don't they? We have to please the big Call of Duty audience who normally don't touch RPGs with the next RPG, rather than please the fans who actually play RPGs to roleplay a character of their choosing.

[moilami]

 I onlyu want nude mod and I will be gg :wub:<3

[Baelyn]

Terror_K wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Immersion is a subjective experience. For some, the unvoiced protagonist breaks it. For others, the voiced protagonist does.

Exactly.

I was not stating for or against any of those points I provided...I was simply saying this is what Bioware thought the general masses felt.

Because of course "the masses" are always right, and one always has to make and design a game for "the masses" don't they? We have to please the big Call of Duty audience who normally don't touch RPGs with the next RPG, rather than please the fans who actually play RPGs to roleplay a character of their choosing.

Yes. Unfortunately the masses will always win out in these situations. They are going to try to reach the most amount of people possible and make the largest percentage happy that they can. This is what they thought they were doing and I believe they succeeded but only time will tell.

[moilami]

Yrkoon wrote...


And so I asked:  how can one  reach such a conclusion of the game from playing a demo specficially designed to simply showcase combat?

I played DA exclusively on "nightmare" and my first toon mage in Fade saw "nightmare" is the way to go. Sadly I was wrong in that, there should had been "ultra-nightmare" in Awakening.

[Baelyn]

Terror_K wrote...

The actual quality of the graphics is a separate issue completely from the visual redesign though. They didn't need to change how everything looked in order to improve the graphics; they merely needed to make them look better. 8-bit Mario is still essentially the same as N64-era Mario and modern Mario Galaxy 2 Mario; he's just more detailed each time. The same can't be said for Flemeth, Isabella or the Darkspawn from DA:O to DA2, or even things like how Templars are dressed now, etc. You don't have to reduce the colour palette to gritty browns and greys to make a game look better.

Well lets see...the two settings we have seen are...

1. a war torn wasteland overrun with souless monsters
2. a city dubbed "the city of chains" obviously not a very happy place....enthralled in a very heavy oppression by the Chantry and the Templars (possibly qunari as well)

Gritty  brown and grey sounds just about right to me. But again I say...you are entitled to your opinion on whether you like this or not (I do) but you can't argue that the game shouldn't be like this and isn't really Dragon Age because of this.

[HawXV2]

Baelyn wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Immersion is a subjective experience. For some, the unvoiced protagonist breaks it. For others, the voiced protagonist does.

Exactly.

I was not stating for or against any of those points I provided...I was simply saying this is what Bioware thought the general masses felt.

Because of course "the masses" are always right, and one always has to make and design a game for "the masses" don't they? We have to please the big Call of Duty audience who normally don't touch RPGs with the next RPG, rather than please the fans who actually play RPGs to roleplay a character of their choosing.

Yes. Unfortunately the masses will always win out in these situations. They are going to try to reach the most amount of people possible and make the largest percentage happy that they can. This is what they thought they were doing and I believe they succeeded but only time will tell.

BioWare is a company like anyone else. They need money. That said, though, they didn't alienate anyone. This is still very much a hardcore RPG.

[Terror_K]

Baelyn wrote...

Yes. Unfortunately the masses will always win out in these situations. They are going to try to reach the most amount of people possible and make the largest percentage happy that they can. This is what they thought they were doing and I believe they succeeded but only time will tell.

And that's BioWare's biggest fault at the moment. They've gone from "making great RPGs for RPG players" to this whole concept of "making RPGs for as many as possible" now. The games no longer feel aimed at the RPG-player and their branching out has made them suffer because of it, because they'd rather make a game for profit than make a game as a piece of art or as something more than just a game. BioWare are clearly trying to have their cake and eat it too lately, and I for one am sick of it. They want to grab in new fans who don't normally play RPGs while not alienating their old ones at the same time, but it's not going to work because the very factors they are removing and dumbing down that put off this audience they're chasing now are often the very same things that draw existing RPG fans to the games in the first place. But I'm sure it's just "acceptable losses" if some of the more hardcore RPG fanbase get annoyed and walk, as long as they make their $$$ and get more popular. It doesn't matter if you sell out if it works out. And we all know the best thing for the gaming industry is to have every single game out there the same generic blend of "perfection" that is the action-oriented, story-driven, cinematic game that everybody else is going for these days. Ironic that in an age when other companies are starting to add more cinematic, story and RPG elements to their titles that BioWare is reducing theirs instead. All because they want to chase the same audience as everybody else is. Who cares about diversity and variation and creating different games for different audiences when you can all go for the one biggest one at the same time? Who cares about making unique games that are clearly a labour of love and more than the sum of their parts when you can just try and create the cold, heartless methodological "perfect" formula for the "perfect" game that mathetmatically appeals to the greatest amount of people? It's all very well to say that maybe making these "Actiony RPG-Lite" affairs will help wean RPG virgins onto the more hardcore stuff, but it's not going to do much when the company saying so is no longer even making hardcore, deep RPGs any more and is only making these weaksauce variants now. I've seen the signs of this for a while now, and all DA2 has done has confirmed my suspicions about the direction BioWare is going. In a few years time, they won't give a damn about their old fans who are displeased and won't care about making good RPGs at all. They'll just be making action games with story. They'll be making Uncharted clones.

Modifié par Terror_K, 27 février 2011 - 11:51 .

[JayLoco81]

I've played through the demo a number of times. I'm intrigued for the game.

X-box 360 version

I enjoy meeting the new characters and like the graphics employed. The combat system took almost no time for me to become familiar with, and I'm rather excited to play through the entire game. If I had any gripe with the demo, it would simply be text size. Though I could read well enough to navigate everything it simply had me leaning a smidge closer to the screen than I liked.  Also in the conversation with Flemeth, it seemed that at one point she had barely finished one thought before transitioning to another.

I enjoy the fact that some characters from the first game are making cameos or returns. And I'm interested to get to know Isabela more after having met her in the first game as well. All in all, I'm happy with the demo and looking forward to playing through another adventure in this world of Dragon Age.

[Morroian]

Terror_K wrote...

And that's BioWare's biggest fault at the moment. They've gone from "making great RPGs for RPG players" to this whole concept of "making RPGs for as many as possible" now. 

Uh Kotor, Jade Empire.................

[RUDAL]

People are complaining about voiced hero character, but I like it. Have you played Wiedzmin (The Witcher)? Main character is fully voiced but the conversations in game is kept in style we've seen in DAO and it's all fun. You have more connection with the character then.
Another thing - Dragon Age, but not Dragon Age. Who said that it have to be the same story or those two games have to be connected? Like with Coast of Swords you have plenty of room in there, use it. If BW would connect those two games tightly we would have another ME series and I don't think any one in here would want that.

[moilami]

DA2 might be the first RPG where I could let my girl play while I would be focusing completely on her.