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[Terror_K]

Morroian wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

And that's BioWare's biggest fault at the moment. They've gone from "making great RPGs for RPG players" to this whole concept of "making RPGs for as many as possible" now. 

Uh Kotor, Jade Empire.................

KotOR was still a great RPG, and catered to Star Wars fans more than anybody. Jade Empire is certainly their least RPG RPG to date, but it wasn't trying to be a full on RPG from the start. If DA2 was a seperate title not affiliated with Dragon Age at all then 90% of my issues with it would be gone, and if it was a spin-off and not a sequel then about 60% of them would be gone. My issue isn't so much that BioWare are branching out more in and of itself, but the manner in which they're doing it. If they want to branch out and make an RPG for the "non-RPG'ers" out there then fine... all power to them. But they should do it with a new IP and new series, and not start hijacking and rebooting other existing IP's into something they weren't originally intended to be. That is my issue with it. By all means make games for the mainstream if you feel you need to, but don't ruin the games and series' I like to do it. If BioWare are a company that can make 3-4 games at a time, why can't they make proper hardcore RPGs and action RPG-Lite games as well? Why does Dragon Age have to devolve from the former into the latter?

Modifié par Terror_K, 27 février 2011 - 11:59 .

[Baelyn]

Terror_K wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

Yes. Unfortunately the masses will always win out in these situations. They are going to try to reach the most amount of people possible and make the largest percentage happy that they can. This is what they thought they were doing and I believe they succeeded but only time will tell.

And that's BioWare's biggest fault at the moment. They've gone from "making great RPGs for RPG players" to this whole concept of "making RPGs for as many as possible" now. The games no longer feel aimed at the RPG-player and their branching out has made them suffer because of it, because they'd rather make a game for profit than make a game as a piece of art or as something more than just a game. BioWare are clearly trying to have their cake and eat it too lately, and I for one am sick of it. They want to grab in new fans who don't normally play RPGs while not alienating their old ones at the same time, but it's not going to work because the very factors they are removing and dumbing down that put off this audience they're chasing now are often the very same things that draw existing RPG fans to the games in the first place. But I'm sure it's just "acceptable losses" if some of the more hardcore RPG fanbase get annoyed and walk, as long as they make their $$$ and get more popular. It doesn't matter if you sell out if it works out. And we all know the best thing for the gaming industry is to have every single game out there the same generic blend of "perfection" that is the action-oriented, story-driven, cinematic game that everybody else is going for these days. Ironic that in an age when other companies are starting to add more cinematic, story and RPG elements to their titles that BioWare is reducing theirs instead. All because they want to chase the same audience as everybody else is. Who cares about diversity and variation and creating different games for different audiences when you can all go for the one biggest one at the same time? Who cares about making unique games that are clearly a labour of love and more than the sum of their parts when you can just try and create the cold, heartless methodological "perfect" formula for the "perfect" game that mathetmatically appeals to the greatest amount of people? It's all very well to say that maybe making these "Actiony RPG-Lite" affairs will help wean RPG virgins onto the more hardcore stuff, but it's not going to do much when the company saying so is no longer even making hardcore, deep RPGs any more and is only making these weaksauce variants now. I've seen the signs of this for a while now, and all DA2 has done has confirmed my suspicions about the direction BioWare is going. In a few years time, they won't give a damn about their old fans who are displeased and won't care about making good RPGs at all. They'll just be making action games with story. They'll be making Uncharted clones.

I still am confused on how flashy combat, a different art direction, and a voiced PC make this game not an RPG? In the same respect I don't know how you can make all of the judgement calls before even playing the game.

Play it through. Then see if Bioware hasn't captured you up in their story. Just because you feel the game is disjointed now...guess what? It is! It was a 25-30 minute demo of a 30+ hour game!

All I am asking is

Dont generalize so much that Bioware = evil because so far what you have seen is not what you would want.

Dont speak for the entire "hardcore RPG fans"....I happen to be a part of this and I don't agree with everything you are saying that "we" want.

Give the game a shot or at least wait for some more thorough reviews before just brushing this off as a filthy RPG/Dragon Age wanna-be.

[RUDAL]

Dumbing down and making everything more flashier happens everywhere not only in BW games.
Im plaing a "certanin" MMO for very long time now. It was all fun when it started, with really nice and helpful people aroud but now you have everything dumbed down, a lot of idiots who think they know everything and lack of respect to others. Bout it's not the games fault it's people that play the games.

[LadyRae9]

Ummmm - of course they're going to try to get as many customers as possible. That's what businesses do. And, when everything else is stripped away, they are a business.

[bluestrider25]

Hey if tweaking game play to make it more flashy so they can bring the masses onboard, i'm all for it as long as they manage to keep game play tolerable and fantastic story with great lore. Because then more rpg's would be developed.

Sure its been exaggerated with flashy moves and bloody gore...but as long as they don't go overboard and put exaggerated magic, an exaggerated spirit realm or exaggerated dragons in it i'm fine. What!?!? You mean there is magic, a spirit realm and dragons in it....thats totally unrealistic! 8{

Good demo, hopefully they had time to tune up the game.

YAY no magic cast times! (they don't make sense) Step up for rpg's...take notice developers! CD and reload downtimes make sense but not 2.7 second cast where any decent AI should interrupt you with ease.

[kwinia]

Terror_K wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

And that's BioWare's biggest fault at the moment. They've gone from "making great RPGs for RPG players" to this whole concept of "making RPGs for as many as possible" now. 

Uh Kotor, Jade Empire.................

KotOR was still a great RPG, and catered to Star Wars fans more than anybody. Jade Empire is certainly their least RPG RPG to date, but it wasn't trying to be a full on RPG from the start. If DA2 was a seperate title not affiliated with Dragon Age at all then 90% of my issues with it would be gone, and if it was a spin-off and not a sequel then about 60% of them would be gone. My issue isn't so much that BioWare are branching out more in and of itself, but the manner in which they're doing it. If they want to branch out and make an RPG for the "non-RPG'ers" out there then fine... all power to them. But they should do it with a new IP and new series, and not start hijacking and rebooting other existing IP's into something they weren't originally intended to be. That is my issue with it. By all means make games for the mainstream if you feel you need to, but don't ruin the games and series' I like to do it. If BioWare are a company that can make 3-4 games at a time, why can't they make proper hardcore RPGs and action RPG-Lite games as well? Why does Dragon Age have to devolve from the former into the latter?

That's what i think too. I miss a slow, epic game. I want to walk, not to run. I don't need hordes of enemies waiting for me round every corner, i don neel large icons showing me what to do, modern, cold interfaces. I wanted a game closer to reading a book o writing a journey diary than to action movie. I missplaces i can explore, with rich history. And it's hard for me to understand why two differend games can't be made - one for people like me and one for thos who prefere different style.
and sorry for my english;)

[Terror_K]

Baelyn wrote...

I still am confused on how flashy combat, a different art direction, and a voiced PC make this game not an RPG?

It doesn't. It just makes it a less satisfactory one that's oversimplified and not a very good follow-up to the original. I'm not saying that it's a bad game, or even a bad RPG. I'm saying it's a bad Dragon Age.

Funnily enough, I could see a game of this style working for a concept I always wanted BioWare to create: a pirate themed RPG. I always thought BioWare should explore the basic concept of an IP that's basically part Monkey Island, part Pirates of the Carribean, part Sid Meier's Pirates! and all mixed with a classic BioWare RPG, where you gather interesting companions, travel from place to place on a ship, perform quests, have different classes that involve swordplay, ranged muskets, voodoo magic, etc. and the like. I thought it would be brilliant if BioWare did something like that, and it would very much suit the style DA2 is going for, IMO.

But as a follow-up to Dragon Age: Origins... no thanks. Especially with this whole semi-reboot nature of it. Again, reboots are for embarassing failures or stale IPs that are a bit long-in-the-tooth and neet reinvigorating. Dragon Age: Origins was neither, and had only been around for one game and a couple of novels, and BioWare and EA both stated it as being their most successful IP yet.

In the same respect I don't know how you can make all of the judgement calls before even playing the game.

Play it through. Then see if Bioware hasn't captured you up in their story. Just because you feel the game is disjointed now...guess what? It is! It was a 25-30 minute demo of a 30+ hour game!

All I am asking is

Dont generalize so much that Bioware = evil because so far what you have seen is not what you would want.

Dont speak for the entire "hardcore RPG fans"....I happen to be a part of this and I don't agree with everything you are saying that "we" want.

Give the game a shot or at least wait for some more thorough reviews before just brushing this off as a filthy RPG/Dragon Age wanna-be.

I'm still getting the game. My pre-order is in and I'm not cancelling it. I'm going to play it all the way though, sit on it and then review it, and then I'll see. But I know I've seen enough to know that it's a lesser game than Origins. Too much has changed and been rebooted, and too much has been console-ized. Again, if this wasn't Dragon Age 2, most of my issues with it would be gone. The problem is, it is Dragon Age 2.

Beyond that, I also see this pretty much as the culmination of something I've been saying for almost three years now. I saw the warning signs of this long ago, and said as much (if you look hard enough you'll see on the old BioWare forums about this). It all pretty much started when the original Dragon Age PC version was delayed and the console versions were announced, then there were some Mass Effect-related things, and the whole "this is the new $h1t!" videos and everything and it just kept snowballing from there. People kept saying, "you're paranoid! Trust BioWare!" and the like, but as time has gone on only more and more of my suspicions have been confirmed about where BioWare is heading as a whole and I haven't liked it. ME2 was their first disappointment product-wise, and now there's DA2. Ironically I was "naysaying" about DAO and dubious about it, worrying that the introduction of console versions were going to result in a dumbed-down PC one. It didn't in the end, and I apologised on the DAO forums about some of the claims I'd made. But the ironic thing is that this sequel is basically exactly what I feared DAO was going to be. The demo is enough to convince me of that, as are several dev comments about its overall direction.

So no... I'm not just basing this viewpoint on a 25-30 minute demo I played. I'm basing it on watching BioWare slip down a very slippery slope for several years now. I'm basing it on the fact I saw my favourite IP of theirs (Mass Effect, which wasn't even a really hardcore RPG in the first place) slip into mainstream mediocrity with it's dumbed-down, overstreamlined sequel, and that I've now seen the same thing basically happen to Dragon Age too. I'm basing off the fact that I'm watching a company I thought was better than this slowly prove that they aren't over the last few years. ME2 was strike one. DA2 looks like it'll be strike two. One more strike, and as far as I'm concerned... BioWare are out.

Modifié par Terror_K, 27 février 2011 - 12:37 .

[Nascaron]

PC version Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, runs flawlessly on DirectX 11

Finished the demo. Not really impressed, the graphics is quite the same
of DAO that means it is not today's standard, maybe the final game will
be better but I doubt if. The game seems to be essentially focused on
combat that is pretty automatic (hitting R and clicking abilities'
icons), not really interesting, to me at least.
Your opinion?

[moilami]

RUDAL wrote...

Dumbing down and making everything more flashier happens everywhere not only in BW games.
Im plaing a "certanin" MMO for very long time now. It was all fun when it started, with really nice and helpful people aroud but now you have everything dumbed down, a lot of idiots who think they know everything and lack of respect to others. Bout it's not the games fault it's people that play the games.

Excluding flight sims, which has become more realistical and complex year by year. Those are anything but dumbed down! And luckily they will remain so because masses can't become interested of them.

There is also interesting dumbing down and hardening cycles to be seen in WoW. 

[LordPaul256]

LadyRae9 wrote...

Ummmm - of course they're going to try to get as many customers as possible. That's what businesses do. And, when everything else is stripped away, they are a business.

I just wanted to point out that this is not true.  Does Ferrari cater their cars to reach as many people as possible?

No.  They are creating a premium product which they sell to select clientele.  Not that Ferrari is BioWare or that such a comparison should be made, I'm just pointing out this fallacy.

Different business models target different demographics.  Sometimes catering to the base creates a niche collectors market that makes it harder for newer customers to get into it (see also: Comic books, Warhammer) and others try to create demand where there was none before (see also: Male beauty supplies, disposable mops).

In video game terms, a Facebook game is the area to go into to reach the largest market possible.  The "mainstream" video game market on 360, PS3, & PC is a somewhat niche market, where customer loyalty & word of mouth can really drive & thrive video game sales.  However, perception also plays into purchasing decisions here, so sometimes it's worth it to try something new to expand that base.  That is what I percieve is happening here.  From a business viewpoint, it makes sense.  From a fan perspective, I'm less enthused, but am willing to try it out.  (Those stupid Puddy Patrol darkspawn... grrr...)

Anyway. the point is, that's not exactly what businesses do.  It's merely a facet of certain strategies. 

[Yrkoon]

Nascaron wrote...

PC version Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, runs flawlessly on DirectX 11

Finished the demo. Not really impressed, the graphics is quite the same
of DAO that means it is not today's standard, maybe the final game will
be better but I doubt if. The game seems to be essentially focused on
combat that is pretty automatic (hitting R and clicking abilities'
icons), not really interesting, to me at least.
Your opinion?

 Just a note:  anything higher than Medium settings has been disabled in this demo.  Checking the DX11 option does exactly nothing to the graphics in the demo.  So basically, despite your rig, you're playing the demo with  DX9 graphics.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 février 2011 - 12:47 .

[Shayera]

@ Kwinia + Terror

You both hit the nail on the head (i hope this makes any sense in english)!

[Skyweir]

Graunt wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

2. No voicing of the PC ruined the immersion

That's a huge crock, IMO. I personally find it ruins immersion far more to have a voice thrust upon me when I'm trying to roleplay a character that's supposed to be mine. A silent PC is not an antiquated mechanic, it's a tool one can merely choose to use or not.

You're in the minority with this one.  Before the Mass Effect games I found that a voice acted protagonist usually detracted from the overall experience (mostly just because the acting was bad or they tried combining voice acting with a lot of text choices).  After the Mass Effect games, I'll never prefer the text based only method.  It wouldn't be so bad if everyone in the game "spoke" through text, but when everyone but you is audible, "roleplaying excuse" or not, it's pretty jarring and kills immersion more than it helps.  You aren't even playing your character in this game anyway, you're playing a human named Hawke.

i agree about immersion, disagree about the graphics, besides DAO's
were pretty blah/generic... probably worst part of the game. Worst part
about this game, and i'm sure someone will state its been in another
thread, Hurlocks look dumb now. oh well, thats not why i play.

Both the combat and graphics (you know, that thing that made up the actual GAMEPLAY...) were pretty much tied for being mediocre to downright antiquated.  And yes, the Hurlocks look completely stupid.  Blizzardware must be what they are aiming for.  Lets keep World of Warcraft in World of Warcraft ok Bioware?  You've already adjusted your terrible UI for that crowd, don't really need cartoony clown models too.

I would like some numbers sited before you claim majority or minority about the voiced protagonist. There was a pretty long thread on this forums were a lot of poster expressed their dislike of voice, for pretty obvious reasons realted to acctual roleplay.

Yes, you are playing Hawke. Much like you were playing The Warden in the previous game. But The Warden had many more options about personality and style, partly becaue she was not voiced.  Hawke will basicly always be the same character, with the same voice. You can play her as sarcastic, nice or angry. That is it. Not a very deep roleplaying experience. (Though admitedly better than the Witcher, were you are playing a comepletely predefiened character that has had books written about him).

Voices are nice, but the trade of is to much for some. You exchange true character flexibility for the ability to hear some mediocre voice actor/ess say lines that are vaugely related to what you selected in the radial menu.

[HawXV2]

Terror_K wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

I still am confused on how flashy combat, a different art direction, and a voiced PC make this game not an RPG?

It doesn't. It just makes it a less satisfactory one that's oversimplified and not a very good follow-up to the original. I'm not saying that it's a bad game, or even a bad RPG. I'm saying it's a bad Dragon Age.

Funnily enough, I could see a game of this style working for a concept I always wanted BioWare to create: a pirate themed RPG. I always thought BioWare should explore the basic concept of an IP that's basically part Monkey Island, part Pirates of the Carribean, part Sid Meier's Pirates! and all mixed with a classic BioWare RPG, where you gather interesting companions, travel from place to place on a ship, perform quests, have different classes that involve swordplay, ranged muskets, voodoo magic, etc. and the like. I thought it would be brilliant if BioWare did something like that, and it would very much suit the style DA2 is going for, IMO.

But as a follow-up to Dragon Age: Origins... no thanks. Especially with this whole semi-reboot nature of it. Again, reboots are for embarassing failures or stale IPs that are a bit long-in-the-tooth and neet reinvigorating. Dragon Age: Origins was neither, and had only been around for one game and a couple of novels, and BioWare and EA both stated it as being their most successful IP yet.

In the same respect I don't know how you can make all of the judgement calls before even playing the game.

Play it through. Then see if Bioware hasn't captured you up in their story. Just because you feel the game is disjointed now...guess what? It is! It was a 25-30 minute demo of a 30+ hour game!

All I am asking is

Dont generalize so much that Bioware = evil because so far what you have seen is not what you would want.

Dont speak for the entire "hardcore RPG fans"....I happen to be a part of this and I don't agree with everything you are saying that "we" want.

Give the game a shot or at least wait for some more thorough reviews before just brushing this off as a filthy RPG/Dragon Age wanna-be.

I'm still getting the game. My pre-order is in and I'm not cancelling it. I'm going to play it all the way though, sit on it and then review it, and then I'll see. But I know I've seen enough to know that it's a lesser game than Origins. Too much has changed and been rebooted, and too much has been console-ized. Again, if this wasn't Dragon Age 2, most of my issues with it would be gone. The problem is, it is Dragon Age 2.

Beyond that, I also see this pretty much as the culmination of something I've been saying for almost three years now. I saw the warning signs of this long ago, and said as much (if you look hard enough you'll see on the old BioWare forums about this). It all pretty much started when the original Dragon Age PC version was delayed and the console versions were announced, then there were some Mass Effect-related things, and the whole "this is the new $h1t!" videos and everything and it just kept snowballing from there. People kept saying, "you're paranoid! Trust BioWare!" and the like, but as time has gone on only more and more of my suspicions have been confirmed about where BioWare is heading as a whole and I haven't liked it. ME2 was their first disappointment product-wise, and now there's DA2. Ironically I was "naysaying" about DAO and dubious about it, worrying that the introduction of console versions were going to result in a dumbed-down PC one. It didn't in the end, and I apologised on the DAO forums about some of the claims I'd made. But the ironic thing is that this sequel is basically exactly what I feared DAO was going to be. The demo is enough to convince me of that, as are several dev comments about its overall direction.

So no... I'm not just basing this viewpoint on a 25-30 minute demo I played. I'm basing it on watching BioWare slip down a very slippery slope for several years now. I'm basing it on the fact I saw my favourite IP of theirs (Mass Effect, which wasn't even a really hardcore RPG in the first place) slip into mainstream mediocrity with it's dumbed-down, overstreamlined sequel, and that I've now seen the same thing basically happen to Dragon Age too. I'm basing off the fact that I'm watching a company I thought was better than this slowly prove that they aren't over the last few years. ME2 was strike one. DA2 looks like it'll be strike two. One more strike, and as far as I'm concerned... BioWare are out.

Well, ME2 was kinda shooterish. But I think you'll like DA2 in the end, considering the fact thst it is just an updated DA:O.

[Skyweir]

Yrkoon wrote...

Skyweir wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Wasn't commenting on the nature of the combat.    Was I.

Pretty sure you were. Original comment was about the combat being flashy, hack and slash and ruining immersion (this last bit I admit is pretty much a very subjective judgment).

Specifically, the original  comment was this:

LuxLucis wrote...

Dragon Age is dead....it's hack and slash fast pace no immersion game play now....

lack of punctuation aside, he was clearly commenting on the nature of the game (that it will be a hack and slash)

And so I asked:  how can one  reach such a conclusion of the game from playing a demo specficially designed to simply showcase combat?

The fact of the matter is that Bioware has never put out a hack'n'slash.  All their RPGs are story based.  There's no reason to believe DA2 will be different.

That said, the combat is obviously and intentionally  flashy. I don't think anyone  has argued otherwise.

No reason, except the demo were the combat is pretty hack and slashy? You can get a huge impression on how the game acctually plays through the demo, that is at least it's intent. Just like playing the demo of Mass Effect 2 will give you the idea that it plays a lot like a third person shooter.

You can't get any great feel of the story or the companions, true. But "hack and slash" and "fast game play" are conclusions one can draw. As well as "no immersion", if you dislike the character of Hawke as he/she appears in the demo. You are pretty much unable to change that character, so your immersion is dependent solely on how this character is written.

Any opinion about these issues based on the demo are anchored in observable facts about the game Dragon Age 2. Not about earlier games, or Biowares track record, which while usefull cannot be compared to acctual experience with the game.

[bluestrider25]

Whether they have a non/voice, a name given/created or a background. I have yet to play an rpg that doesn't have a predetermined protagonist. I could be wrong but they just don't exist not even in Bioware games...they just give you choices to make them seem unique but its all an illusion. An original character would probably be on an MMO and most of them blow.

I will still play DA2 and any other title BW comes out with for their great stories and opportunities to choose the small detail choices. A smart fool would say "the details make life great". And they do! (me a fool, lol)

I miss the Kotor games that being said. I hope Swotor is indeed an online Kotor 3-7 or whatever so i can submerse myself in story and exploration. If it beats WOW or is anything like it I will lose my hope and faith in the company. I don't want to be forced to join a guild so i can raid to get loot or gear for no apparent reason other then to look good and get fail achievements. I want solo exploration, awesome storyline where my choices make some difference (as they have promised) and npc's to roll with me and make connections with.

Modifié par bluestrider25, 27 février 2011 - 12:56 .

[Deacarna]

I have played though the demo a few times a day after it released on xbox and see no change until I get my copy...

I few bits of feedback...

- An autoloot option could save a lot of uncessary and dull gameplay, Of course this may not be possible as I remember the side quest in Jarvas hideout where you had to pick the cheapest items only but at the very least there could be a 'auto loot gold' option.

- The aggro towards to the heavily armoured character and the damage before they switch targets and the skills to keep aggro is a massive improvement from Orgins. It is in my opinion perfect!

- Hawke (M) had his right eye bigger than his left very noticable during the first dialoge choice (close up) and during character creation.

- Randomly timed animation when selecting a new target (when the character gets weapon ready) wastes time and can be fatal when darkspawn are running at you when your a less well armoured 'squishy' target. When faced with a horde of darkspawn you need the weapon ready as soon as possible whereas showing off when putting the weapon away is another matter.

- The auto run to range of target (interaction or attack) that was taken out should not have. It makes the ranged auto attacks when switching targets hard to guess the range and disturbes the flow of combat. Running towards darkspawn, pressing auto attack not in range, running to darkspawn, pressing auto attack in range, darkspawn to close to a less well armoured 'squishy' ranged character.

and finally...

- Please could we have a choice I know it is for balancing reasons but some people may prefer an extra mage/champion.

Newnation wrote...

I kind of like playing as a mage but........I really can't stand Carver.

[Amioran]

Deacarna wrote...
- The auto run to range of target (interaction or attack) that was taken out should not have. It makes the ranged auto attacks when switching targets hard to guess the range and disturbes the flow of combat. Running towards darkspawn, pressing auto attack not in range, running to darkspawn, pressing auto attack in range, darkspawn to close to a less well armoured 'squishy' ranged character.

????

What you are talking about it's still active, at last on the PC version, also if I have no idea why it shouldn't be so for console. It's an engine feature; if the attack is not on the proper range you move towards that range. I don't have any idea of what you are talking about.

[Yrkoon]

Skyweir wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Skyweir wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Wasn't commenting on the nature of the combat.    Was I.

Pretty sure you were. Original comment was about the combat being flashy, hack and slash and ruining immersion (this last bit I admit is pretty much a very subjective judgment).

Specifically, the original  comment was this:

LuxLucis wrote...

Dragon Age is dead....it's hack and slash fast pace no immersion game play now....

lack of punctuation aside, he was clearly commenting on the nature of the game (that it will be a hack and slash)

And so I asked:  how can one  reach such a conclusion of the game from playing a demo specficially designed to simply showcase combat?

The fact of the matter is that Bioware has never put out a hack'n'slash.  All their RPGs are story based.  There's no reason to believe DA2 will be different.

That said, the combat is obviously and intentionally  flashy. I don't think anyone  has argued otherwise.

No reason, except the demo were the combat is pretty hack and slashy? You can get a huge impression on how the game acctually plays through the demo, that is at least it's intent. Just like playing the demo of Mass Effect 2 will give you the idea that it plays a lot like a third person shooter.

Not really.

I certainly didn't get  a huge impression on how DA:O actually plays through, say, the first 30 minutes of my first playthough.   But that could just be my open mindedness at work here.  Good thing too, because had I formed my judgements on the first 30 minutes of Origins, I'd have put down the game and never finished it.  I also would have  come online and told everyone how  sh**ty it was  (I was one-shotting rats.  And I wanted to be a 2-hander but couldn't because the game forced me  to use a sword and shield at the start.)

See where this is going?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 février 2011 - 01:09 .

[EddySpeddy]

Don't understand all the people saying the graphics are the same or worse than Origins, I still play Origins and have been skipping between it and the demo (and I am not using DX11 with the Demo atm as I haven't got DX11 installed), the graphics in the Demo were most certainly better. Also you say it was dark and grey/bland, the demo was mostly based in the time they were fleeing from the Darkspawn that had just wiped out Lothering. I find the apocalyptic scenery suited that well.

Modifié par EddySpeddy, 27 février 2011 - 01:08 .

[The_11thDoctor]

Aesieru wrote...

I am very very very interested in having my main issue answered (granted I have a few).

I would very much appreciate it if someone from BioWare could tell me what is up with the way the fire effects and explosion work, because it seems very sickly, ungainly, unrealistic, and an eyesore to look at, and I am 100% certain I am not seeing fire any differently than anyone else and I have a top-gen system.

Is this the final look of fire in this build? Because I must be honest in that it is very disgusting to look at.

Are you serious?! LOL! Wow...it's magical fire... It looks different from normal fire and that seems not only alright but in alot of ways makes sense. It doesnt look like the CG trailer fire, but I can care less. In fact I do like it. I prefer blue flames myself, but that's such a minor thing, even if I found it ugly, It's such a small part of the game it's like a todder crying over nothing. The fire looks great animation wise and look wise. And once again crying over MAGIC not looking realistic... Think about it... MAGIC.

[moilami]

Yrkoon wrote...

Skyweir wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Skyweir wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Wasn't commenting on the nature of the combat.    Was I.

Pretty sure you were. Original comment was about the combat being flashy, hack and slash and ruining immersion (this last bit I admit is pretty much a very subjective judgment).

Specifically, the original  comment was this:

LuxLucis wrote...

Dragon Age is dead....it's hack and slash fast pace no immersion game play now....

lack of punctuation aside, he was clearly commenting on the nature of the game (that it will be a hack and slash)

And so I asked:  how can one  reach such a conclusion of the game from playing a demo specficially designed to simply showcase combat?

The fact of the matter is that Bioware has never put out a hack'n'slash.  All their RPGs are story based.  There's no reason to believe DA2 will be different.

That said, the combat is obviously and intentionally  flashy. I don't think anyone  has argued otherwise.

No reason, except the demo were the combat is pretty hack and slashy? You can get a huge impression on how the game acctually plays through the demo, that is at least it's intent. Just like playing the demo of Mass Effect 2 will give you the idea that it plays a lot like a third person shooter.

Not really.

I certainly didn't get  a huge impression on how DA:O actually plays through, say, the first 30 minutes of my first playthough.   But that could just be my open mindedness at work here.  Good thing too, because had I formed my judgements on the first 30 minutes of Origins, I'd have put down the game and never finished it.  I also would have  come online and told everyone how  sh**ty it was  (I was one-shotting rats.  And I wanted to be a 2-hander but couldn't because the game forced me  to use a sword and shield at the start.)

See where this is going?

I see that is going to the direction no negative feedback allowed. You must have "open mind" to enjoy and love whatever crappy ridiculous game because I feel it is good.

Modifié par moilami, 27 février 2011 - 01:18 .

[darkshadow136]

Overall I thought the demo was good. Things tha could use some work though are below.

1. Had to run demo in DirectX 9, DirectX 11 created massive lag and missing graphics during gameplay.

2. camera angles could use a bit more polish.

3. combat system needs a little more tweaking for response time and targeting, toon does not always start attacking when first clicking on enemy, and when clicking on target area for area effect damage skills sometime you have to click multiple times as well.

4. also when looting sometime you have to click more than once to loot a body or chest.

[Yrkoon]

moilami wrote...

I see that is going to the direction no negative feedback allowed. You must have "open mind" to enjoy and love whatever crappy ridiculous game because I feel it is good.

Aah yes.  the 'straw man' argument now.  You're right.  Bad form on my part.  Allow me to  make my comments more attractive to you:

lol oh my god this demo sucks.  It's a cartoon jrpg and the game is probably gonna be 10x worse. 

Woe, WOE!  Bioware,  I'll never buy another one of your games.  You've managed to art-direct yourselves down the toilet!  why don't you just  re-label this game  "Final Fantasy"  and start producing games for kindergarden public schools.  Oh wait you just did!  It's called dragon age 2!  lol

I hated the graphics!  I hated the user interface  (if I wanna see loud flashing lights, I'll go to las vegas.!!!!!) 

OMG and did you see Bethany?  she's got ****** only a horny  13 year old boy  would appreciate.  Oh wait, that was the intention lol I'm so smart.

Rogues are ninjas.  Yuck!
Mages are ninjas.  ew!
There's no story!
I hate flemeth.


I'm cancelling my preorder  and throwing all my previous Bioware titles in the trash!


Better?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 février 2011 - 01:31 .

[Taurenul]

emlit wrote...

A lot of other people have made much more eloquent points than what I'm about to say, but with limited time (I'm between feedings with two-month-old twins), here's my take.<br />
<br />
The game FEELS significantly different. And not for the better. For me, it played much more like a hack-n-slash God of War-type game than I wanted. Even though the combat for DA:O didn't work for a lot of folks, I think it did a much better job of immersing the player into the game than what I saw in my playthrough of DA II.<br />
<br />
I have no opinions on the graphics, voice acting, pixel-rendering... etc etc etc because I just couldn't get beyond how much like a completely different game the DA II demo played. I'm not a huge gamer, but DA:O was a completely new experience for me and I couldn't get enough. I want more of that, not Darksiders.<br />
<br />
I also think much of the medieval element is lost with the new menus and level-up trees. That may be silly, but it contributed to my experience.<br />
<br />
I realize this rant may not make a lot of sense and it's hard to put into words, but I played (and am still playing) DA:O and don't think I'll have the same level of re-play for DA II. Again it just FEELS different. I hope this feedback just confirms some of the other, more well-spoken community members' comments.

My feelings exactly.