8659 réponses à ce sujet

[EddySpeddy]

Sabishii123 wrote...

Loved the demo, my only complaint is that slow Hawke is SLOW...the haste effect spell will still be in the magic spells system right? I hope so...

hahaha, seconded, that has to be the best spell in Dragon Age.

[sleepyowlet]

Terror_K wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

2. No voicing of the PC ruined the immersion

That's a huge crock, IMO. I personally find it ruins immersion far more to have a voice thrust upon me when I'm trying to roleplay a character that's supposed to be mine. A silent PC is not an antiquated mechanic, it's a tool one can merely choose to use or not. By giving the PC a voice it's taking choice away from the player, and taking away not only how they sound but their personality and mannerisms. A voiced PC always results in less dialogue options, thus less variation and thus less choice and options for the player. This is largely due to budget, file size, etc. amongst other factors: a company can't record dozens upon dozens of PC voice tracks. Anybody who reads a book should have no trouble crafting a character to the point of being able to give their characters "their own voice" so to speak, and thus their own mannerisms and way they'd say things. Ironically BioWare believed the same thing while developing Origins but suddenly seemed to have changed their mind... probably because of all the whiners who said a silent protagonist was "archaic" and "ruined immersion" and the like because they've probably seen more TV shows than they have read words on a page. To me, giving my character a voice that I feel I should be giving myself in an RPG is like me taking another random person along with me to my weekly P&P RPG games, and giving him a very vague instruction everytime I want my character to speak and letting him just speak for me, whether the voice suits the concept of my character or not. It's going to be even worse in The Old Republic, where we have groups of Bounty Hunters all teaming up and all grunting in Steve Blum's tones. Nothing says "I created a character that's mine and unique!" like having them sound the same as everybody else.

3. Graphics that keep with the times.

If by that you mean all gritty, brown, grey and generic, then yes... DA2 certainly succeeded there. <_<

This. In DA:O I had options, and I had to think about which one to take, couldn't be sure, if the choice I made was good or bad. Like the Harrowmont/Bhelen thing. Bhelen is a smarmy murderer, Harrowmont comes across as solid and reliable. But Bhelen can save the dwarves, Harrowmont can't.
Now I have three options, and it's already obvious in which direction they'll go - not to mention the fact that Hawke says something completely different than what's written next to the icons. Annoying. Very annoying.

[EddySpeddy]

sleepyowlet wrote...


This. In DA:O I had options, and I had to think about which one to take, couldn't be sure, if the choice I made was good or bad. Like the Harrowmont/Bhelen thing. Bhelen is a smarmy murderer, Harrowmont comes across as solid and reliable. But Bhelen can save the dwarves, Harrowmont can't.
Now I have three options, and it's already obvious in which direction they'll go - not to mention the fact that Hawke says something completely different than what's written next to the icons. Annoying. Very annoying.

I found that most of it was summarized well, Hawke isn't meant to say what is in the chat, it's just a summary just like Mass Effect. It'd be stupid if you knew the precise wording Hawke was going to use, that would take the edge off it. I mean if you knew exactly what Sheperd was going to say in his awesome speeches it wouldn't sound as cool would it?

Sorry if that wasn't what you meant. But that's what it came across as to me.

[Des0lace]

Should've had nightmare mode available for the demo. Most idiots will take the easy mode as representative of as hard as the game can be.

[HawXV2]

EddySpeddy wrote...

Marah_Fayne wrote...


It seems like the biggest complaint is with the new combat style (I know that was my biggest disapointment).   Unless the demo gave a COMPLETELY wrong impression, those opinions WILL NOT change by playing the full game.  People might be won over by a really great story (what Bioware is know for), but don't count on it.

I don't think I'll be apologizing to anybody for saying that the combat changes were a horrible mistake.

To be quite honest the only complaint I have with the combat is the excessive jump distance and gore, people don't explode when stabbed in the back, I think it was a nice idea changing combat though, it feels more smoother and real (apart from gore once again). I absolutely hated playing as a Mage or Archer in DA: Origins, but I quite enjoyed playing every class in this except for the Two Handed Sword. Also the fact my weapon hits air when fighting, but you usually don't notice that because your too busy hitting the next spell/attack. I like what they've done, it could just do with some improving is all.

People don't throw fireballs either, do they?

[TransientNomad]

I think the main reason for "bashing" occurs when someone makes a baseless claim. A perfect example being "DA2 is nothing but a action game for the cafeine addled, while the truly sophisticated of us enjoy DAOs system more."

I have seen that time and again on this thread. The problem with that is threefold.

1.) The combat is exactly the same as DAO in the demo only faster. It's like all the characters have momentum on.

2.) It belittles people who liked the demo (who according to the polls are the overwhelming majority).

3.) While you can like or dislike the demo, be prepared to defend your opinion with facts that can be substantiated.

[EddySpeddy]

HawXV2 wrote...

EddySpeddy wrote...

To be quite honest the only complaint I have with the combat is the excessive jump distance and gore, people don't explode when stabbed in the back, I think it was a nice idea changing combat though, it feels more smoother and real (apart from gore once again). I absolutely hated playing as a Mage or Archer in DA: Origins, but I quite enjoyed playing every class in this except for the Two Handed Sword. Also the fact my weapon hits air when fighting, but you usually don't notice that because your too busy hitting the next spell/attack. I like what they've done, it could just do with some improving is all.

People don't throw fireballs either, do they?

Now your just nitpicking, it's a mage now isn't it, they are meant to have powers. A person wielding two swords however should not make someone explode when stabbing them in the back...

[CloudOfShadows]

I liked what I saw in the demo, I actually went from very suspicious to rather pleased with the end-product.

The combat is a huge improvement, for me. It actually looks great. Still feels much the same as DAO for me, but visuals are way better. With a good set of tactics for the party members configured it's fun. Sure it's not ToEE, but hey, that was such a huge success...

And ever since I discovered I can use the number keys (1-6) the dialogue wheel has won me over, too. Definitely prefer short summarized paraphrased things to things that I read, and then are read to me. And almost everyone seemed to complain about missing main-char voice acting in DA:O. So, with voice acting for main char, this is good improvement, I think.

I was also pleased to discover that unlike in other bioware games (going back as far as Baldurs Gate) the things I made Hawke say actually are different, and not just the very same. So, the paraphrases are actually choices.

What I didn't like was the silly "Press-any-key" screen before I got into the menu. I liked that the configuration tool allowed me to disable the intro movies, but I want an option to always skip that screen too. I see absolutely no point in it.

I do miss the tactical camera mode, when you move out the camera further. But it's a change I can live with, again - I can always start up ToEE or JA2.

[kwinia]

It's not allways about facts, the games may be quite similar in many aspects, but it feels different while playing.
Sometimes it's hard to say what exactly made the different feel because it's usually a detail. But details are important - they make the whole atmpshere of the game. To me for example big shiny icons are very annoying. So there is no point to argue - it's just subjective feeling of the game.

[Marah_Fayne]

EddySpeddy wrote...

Marah_Fayne wrote...


In the end, EA/Bioware wanted to appeal to the caffiene-addled, Red Bull drinking, COD-playing, 12-year-old ADD  crowd - because that's where they think the money is.  ...and we true RPG fans are left to either put up with the Dynasty Warrior style fighting...or stop playing...

To be quite honest the guys in my clan (Call of Duty 4 players) liked Origins but disliked the gameplay in the demo for this. Although I never played MW2(CoD6) and that's where I assume the 12 yr old crowd is xD

But not all CoD players are 12 yr old idiots... I myself am a huge fan of RPGs and have played DA: Origins through a number of times despite having 2000 hours of CoD under my belt.

Oh, I agree - I play all kinds of games, Mass Effect, and Halo...DA and COD... it's just... they got their chocoloate in my peanut butter...you know what I mean?

[HawXV2]

Marah_Fayne wrote...

EddySpeddy wrote...

Marah_Fayne wrote...


It seems like the biggest complaint is with the new combat style (I know that was my biggest disapointment).   Unless the demo gave a COMPLETELY wrong impression, those opinions WILL NOT change by playing the full game.  People might be won over by a really great story (what Bioware is know for), but don't count on it.

I don't think I'll be apologizing to anybody for saying that the combat changes were a horrible mistake.

To be quite honest the only complaint I have with the combat is the excessive jump distance and gore, people don't explode when stabbed in the back, I think it was a nice idea changing combat though, it feels more smoother and real (apart from gore once again). I absolutely hated playing as a Mage or Archer in DA: Origins, but I quite enjoyed playing every class in this except for the Two Handed Sword. Also the fact my weapon hits air when fighting, but you usually don't notice that because your too busy hitting the next spell/attack. I like what they've done, it could just do with some improving is all.

Agree with the jump speed (I'll forgive the gore), and I'll add that the overall speed of combat is over the top, and the skill trees look too small/limited.  It looks like, by the end of the game, you'll have just about every skill, which would severly limit the replayability.

In the end, EA/Bioware wanted to appeal to the caffiene-addled, Red Bull drinking, COD-playing, 12-year-old ADD  crowd - because that's where they think the money is.  ...and we true RPG fans are left to either put up with the Dynasty Warrior style fighting...or stop playing...

Unfounded, broad generilazation.

Modifié par HawXV2, 27 février 2011 - 05:03 .

[Eurypterid]

People, posts such as "THIS" and posting images such as clapping is spam. it will be removed. If people persist in this type of thing, then their posting privileges will be suspended.

If people continue to insist on belittling other's posts and arguing about other's opinions, the result will be the same. Talk about the demo, give feedback on the demo, stay on topic, and stop trying to prove someone's opinion of the demo is wrong.

[Des0lace]

Most of the "casualizations/consolizations" I can deal with. The dialogue, however, is almost unbearably dumbed down. While I can understand having more limited options because they all now have to be voiced (well, if you put more work into it, you could have more options), to have the same type always showing up in the same position of the wheel, with icons to show which of the few personality types each paraphrase belongs to is almost unbearably dumbed down for me. You should have an option to just have the different lines, in full, displayed out in random order more like DA:O. That seems to me like it wouldn't require that much work to do and would allow you to appease both casuals and those who want to actually think more deeply about their dialogue/roleplaying choices.

Also, I abhor those little minimaps up in the corner. This bothered me greatly in FFXIII also. It just constantly accentuates and reminds the player of how linear the game is. There is already a map ability! I guess you guys have your reasons for it? If I were a dev, I would at least make it off by default but toggable if players want it.

Modifié par Des0lace, 27 février 2011 - 05:03 .

[Revan-Reborn]

Personally, I liked the demo. I liked how the combat was very similar to Jade Empire. Brought me back a few years. So cheers to Bioware for allowing me to relive some memories from another of their great games. Also voice acting was a well done as usual.

[TheBorstalboy1]

 Is it just me or does DA II feel like a Saturday morning cartoon spin-off of Origins? 

[Marah_Fayne]

HawXV2 wrote...

Marah_Fayne wrote...

EddySpeddy wrote...

Marah_Fayne wrote...


It seems like the biggest complaint is with the new combat style (I know that was my biggest disapointment).   Unless the demo gave a COMPLETELY wrong impression, those opinions WILL NOT change by playing the full game.  People might be won over by a really great story (what Bioware is know for), but don't count on it.

I don't think I'll be apologizing to anybody for saying that the combat changes were a horrible mistake.

To be quite honest the only complaint I have with the combat is the excessive jump distance and gore, people don't explode when stabbed in the back, I think it was a nice idea changing combat though, it feels more smoother and real (apart from gore once again). I absolutely hated playing as a Mage or Archer in DA: Origins, but I quite enjoyed playing every class in this except for the Two Handed Sword. Also the fact my weapon hits air when fighting, but you usually don't notice that because your too busy hitting the next spell/attack. I like what they've done, it could just do with some improving is all.

Agree with the jump speed (I'll forgive the gore), and I'll add that the overall speed of combat is over the top, and the skill trees look too small/limited.  It looks like, by the end of the game, you'll have just about every skill, which would severly limit the replayability.

In the end, EA/Bioware wanted to appeal to the caffiene-addled, Red Bull drinking, COD-playing, 12-year-old ADD  crowd - because that's where they think the money is.  ...and we true RPG fans are left to either put up with the Dynasty Warrior style fighting...or stop playing...

That was absolutely ridiculous. Just blatant narrow mindedness.

You seem quite bent on telling people who didn't like the demo that threy are wrong...not sure what to make of that, unless you own EA stock.  It's my opinion...you are free to render a different one, but don't tell me mine is wrong (I didn't ask).

[Nefarious13]

 Well, I really don't have time for this, but I'll weigh in. First off, I have been playing RPG's since the Bard's Tale. I loved the BG series and its DEPTH.  The problem on these forums are the mixture of those who like tactics vs those who like action. The reason so many are disappointed in the demo is that it now symbolizes a general direction that the industry is headed. Bethesda raised eyebrows when Morrowind morphed into a much more mainstream Oblivion and now one of the last bastions has begun the transformation as well.

People are truly naive if they believe the console crowd has not had an effect on the "trimming down" of games. It is a business after all, and when EA moves into town you had best believe the word "niche" goes in the garbage. One has to remember from a game developer's standpoint that the bottom line is not priority one. Making a game is a largely creative process and I would bet that many employees at Bioware would/do take issue with what is happening. It is rather comical to hear comments like "get with the times" etc. when it is obvious that most of these new RPGs require very little thought and use of tactics. I hadn't realized that games that were difficult and rewarding were not cool anymore. I guarantee that 5 years from now this game will be long forgotten by RPG fans. I also guarantee that 5 years from now people will still be talking about the BG series with high regard and asking, "why don't they make games with that much depth and challenge anymore?" And that's what this is all about isn't it?

Anyone who makes the argument that RPG's are evolving must not have played these earlier RPGs. No, it's not about nostalgia at all. I know the level of challenge in today's games has diminished. There can be no disputing this. Many are feeling betrayed by Bioware because of this. Fast travel, scaled down inventories, increased auto lvling etc etc are all maneuvers by corporate types to streamline the gaming experience to widen their demographic. This is why those who attempt to call "foul" on these forums will be outnumbered. This demographic has widened and true RPG gamers are now made to look like lumbering dinosaurs. It would be interesting to know how many rpg designers feel the same.  

[Twaddlefish]

TheBorstalboy1 wrote...

 Is it just me or does DA II feel like a Saturday morning cartoon spin-off of Origins? 

You mean all 90s and AWESOME? 

[TEWR]

Eurypterid wrote...

People, posts such as "THIS" and posting images such as clapping is spam. it will be removed. If people persist in this type of thing, then their posting privileges will be suspended.

If people continue to insist on belittling other's posts and arguing about other's opinions, the result will be the same. Talk about the demo, give feedback on the demo, stay on topic, and stop trying to prove someone's opinion of the demo is wrong.

opinions can be wrong you know.

[TheBorstalboy1]

No I mean made for children. The darkspawn look like those things from Fraggle Rock.

[HawXV2]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...

People, posts such as "THIS" and posting images such as clapping is spam. it will be removed. If people persist in this type of thing, then their posting privileges will be suspended.

If people continue to insist on belittling other's posts and arguing about other's opinions, the result will be the same. Talk about the demo, give feedback on the demo, stay on topic, and stop trying to prove someone's opinion of the demo is wrong.

opinions can be wrong you know.

Not really. Some may seem misguided and just plain hate, but they are just as valid as the ones who will play and love this epic adventure.

[DhammaWings]

- I thought this would be a RPG, but it seems more like a FPS - which I personally don't like.

- The characters look like Japanese Anime, which to me detracts from a sense of realism.

- Unrealistic character gymnastics make it seem like a low budget marshal arts production.

My guess is BioWare decided there isn't much demand for RPG, so they went after the much larger FPS market hoping to suck in both genres.

Looks like Elder Scrolls V offers the best hope on the RPG horizon.

Modifié par DhammaWings, 27 février 2011 - 05:10 .

[sleepyowlet]

Thy Bleed wrote...

I disagree. I feel this new combat system significantly draws you more into the game than the old system did. I have to admit even with the old combat system I often times found myself repeatedly hitting the (attack) button hoping it would make me attack faster.

Now that you dont have to worry about cmbat tactics all that much. You can focus more on story and character building and interaction. Basically you can apprciate the other things the game has to offer without worry about whether the tactics you put into play during combat isn't a game of dice.

Well, we're dealing with Darkspawn corruption here. But I agree, that is too much for the short time they've been there. Seriously, if every area the DS just as much as move through or stay in a few days (this is during or shortly after the attack on Lothering, after all) looks like after decades of nuclear winter, there wouldn't be much left of Thedas. The great wastelands in the Anderfels are places they've been for decades or even centuries, after all. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

[Twaddlefish]

TheBorstalboy1 wrote...

No I mean made for children. The darkspawn look like those things from Fraggle Rock.

I'm giving Bioware a get out clause here, but it's possible these are 'young' darkspawn, freshly infected in Lothering, and the 'full' Darkspawn don't appear til later on.

Or not.

[Gerrium]

I am really surprised with the level of content of the demo. There were things I didnt expect and not all were good. I played it on the pc. As I read the comments of players( not all 291 pages...Ha! I dont think so), I saw some similarities which I identify the most

Like the suppostly destroyed or for a better justice "nuked" Lothering. Unrecognizable... and the darkspawn, I didnt knew who they were 'till I was fighitng them. I thought it was somehumanoid plant eating fiend(judging from their white and straight teeth) with uruk hai armor. The ogre didnt look like a gorilla with horns , I missed that Gorrila with horns. Others pointed out the fact some of the members or would be members just throwing themselves at your service(he is not a grey warden) I guess its to early to say from the demo but its a DEMO.

The interface is cool,the fighting is fluent and the demo itself was really limited in its limitation (e.g.,looting but not taking inventory). The new stats panel is very nice, since it tells you how much your atributes are affected when using the points to spend. The skill tree has been simplified using vector images rather than actual art, nice simple change. I am not saying the original one was bad when it was great but simple somtimes is better.

Sometimes I feel like the demo was a pre test version of the final release. Graphicly...its looks kinda pre rendered.

The physical appereance of women lol.. is a bit much e.g. the pirate lady. Im like:.... and I thougth DAO was crossing the line with Wynne having Morrigan's and Lelianas body...lol

It's Dragon Age allright...just feels diferent...I really dont know what to make of it. If this indeed present itself as a defeat for Bioware or loss of credibility delivering a succesful game ...

There is this quote from someone I dont remember the name

" A general of great merit is a man that atleast had one great defeat."


I think it can be a applied to the present situation