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Dragon Age 2 Demo feedback thread


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#7301
TEWR

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HawXV2 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...

People, posts such as "THIS" and posting images such as clapping is spam. it will be removed. If people persist in this type of thing, then their posting privileges will be suspended.

If people continue to insist on belittling other's posts and arguing about other's opinions, the result will be the same. Talk about the demo, give feedback on the demo, stay on topic, and stop trying to prove someone's opinion of the demo is wrong.


opinions can be wrong you know.

Not really. Some may seem misguided and just plain hate, but they are just as valid as the ones who will play and love this epic adventure.


I mean like idiotic opinions. Like someone saying they don't believe in gravity. It's their opinion, and it's obviously wrong. This example was pointed out to me on another thread.

#7302
Shayera

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Nefarious13 wrote...

 Well, I really don't have time for this, but I'll weigh in. First off, I have been playing RPG's since the Bard's Tale. I loved the BG series and its DEPTH.  The problem on these forums are the mixture of those who like tactics vs those who like action. The reason so many are disappointed in the demo is that it now symbolizes a general direction that the industry is headed. Bethesda raised eyebrows when Morrowind morphed into a much more mainstream Oblivion and now one of the last bastions has begun the transformation as well.

People are truly naive if they believe the console crowd has not had an effect on the "trimming down" of games. It is a business after all, and when EA moves into town you had best believe the word "niche" goes in the garbage. One has to remember from a game developer's standpoint that the bottom line is not priority one. Making a game is a largely creative process and I would bet that many employees at Bioware would/do take issue with what is happening. It is rather comical to hear comments like "get with the times" etc. when it is obvious that most of these new RPGs require very little thought and use of tactics. I hadn't realized that games that were difficult and rewarding were not cool anymore. I guarantee that 5 years from now this game will be long forgotten by RPG fans. I also guarantee that 5 years from now people will still be talking about the BG series with high regard and asking, "why don't they make games with that much depth and challenge anymore?" And that's what this is all about isn't it?

Anyone who makes the argument that RPG's are evolving must not have played these earlier RPGs. No, it's not about nostalgia at all. I know the level of challenge in today's games has diminished. There can be no disputing this. Many are feeling betrayed by Bioware because of this. Fast travel, scaled down inventories, increased auto lvling etc etc are all maneuvers by corporate types to streamline the gaming experience to widen their demographic. This is why those who attempt to call "foul" on these forums will be outnumbered. This demographic has widened and true RPG gamers are now made to look like lumbering dinosaurs. It would be interesting to know how many rpg designers feel the same.  


Very well said. I still have my BG in my collection (together with Planescape Torment, Deus Ex, Kotor, Arcanum, and all the others). Some months ago i even reinstalled Fallout 2 and had (even if the graphics are really bad now ;)) lots of fun...

#7303
Grumpy Old Wizard

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EddySpeddy wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...


This. In DA:O I had options, and I had to think about which one to take, couldn't be sure, if the choice I made was good or bad. Like the Harrowmont/Bhelen thing. Bhelen is a smarmy murderer, Harrowmont comes across as solid and reliable. But Bhelen can save the dwarves, Harrowmont can't.
Now I have three options, and it's already obvious in which direction they'll go - not to mention the fact that Hawke says something completely different than what's written next to the icons. Annoying. Very annoying.


I found that most of it was summarized well, Hawke isn't meant to say what is in the chat, it's just a summary just like Mass Effect. It'd be stupid if you knew the precise wording Hawke was going to use, that would take the edge off it. I mean if you knew exactly what Sheperd was going to say in his awesome speeches it wouldn't sound as cool would it?


The game is advertised as a ROLE PLAYING GAME. In a rpg you should know what your character is going to say. The character is the role you are playing.

Therefore it is my opinion that we should be able to chose exactly what our character is going to say rather than having to guess what he is going to say.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 27 février 2011 - 05:21 .


#7304
Clonedzero

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DhammaWings wrote...

- I thought this would be a RPG, but it seems more like a FPS - which I personally don't like.

- The characters look like Japanese Anime, which to me detracts from a sense of realism.

- Unrealistic character gymnastics make it seem like a low budget marshal arts production.

My guess is BioWare decided there isn't much demand for RPG, so they went after the much larger FPS market hoping to suck in both genres.

Looks like Elder Scrolls V offers the best hope on the RPG horizon.

you do know what FPS means right.....?

and elder scrolls is FAR closer to an FPS then DA2. considering if you're using a ranged weapon it is a FPS lol.

#7305
Nefarious13

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Shayera wrote...

Nefarious13 wrote...

 Well, I really don't have time for this, but I'll weigh in. First off, I have been playing RPG's since the Bard's Tale. I loved the BG series and its DEPTH.  The problem on these forums are the mixture of those who like tactics vs those who like action. The reason so many are disappointed in the demo is that it now symbolizes a general direction that the industry is headed. Bethesda raised eyebrows when Morrowind morphed into a much more mainstream Oblivion and now one of the last bastions has begun the transformation as well.

People are truly naive if they believe the console crowd has not had an effect on the "trimming down" of games. It is a business after all, and when EA moves into town you had best believe the word "niche" goes in the garbage. One has to remember from a game developer's standpoint that the bottom line is not priority one. Making a game is a largely creative process and I would bet that many employees at Bioware would/do take issue with what is happening. It is rather comical to hear comments like "get with the times" etc. when it is obvious that most of these new RPGs require very little thought and use of tactics. I hadn't realized that games that were difficult and rewarding were not cool anymore. I guarantee that 5 years from now this game will be long forgotten by RPG fans. I also guarantee that 5 years from now people will still be talking about the BG series with high regard and asking, "why don't they make games with that much depth and challenge anymore?" And that's what this is all about isn't it?

Anyone who makes the argument that RPG's are evolving must not have played these earlier RPGs. No, it's not about nostalgia at all. I know the level of challenge in today's games has diminished. There can be no disputing this. Many are feeling betrayed by Bioware because of this. Fast travel, scaled down inventories, increased auto lvling etc etc are all maneuvers by corporate types to streamline the gaming experience to widen their demographic. This is why those who attempt to call "foul" on these forums will be outnumbered. This demographic has widened and true RPG gamers are now made to look like lumbering dinosaurs. It would be interesting to know how many rpg designers feel the same.  


Very well said. I still have my BG in my collection (together with Planescape Torment, Deus Ex, Kotor, Arcanum, and all the others). Some months ago i even reinstalled Fallout 2 and had (even if the graphics are really bad now ;)) lots of fun...


Thanks. Your earlier post was bang on. It's actually what prompted me to join the discussion.

#7306
sleepyowlet

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EddySpeddy wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...


This. In DA:O I had options, and I had to think about which one to take, couldn't be sure, if the choice I made was good or bad. Like the Harrowmont/Bhelen thing. Bhelen is a smarmy murderer, Harrowmont comes across as solid and reliable. But Bhelen can save the dwarves, Harrowmont can't.
Now I have three options, and it's already obvious in which direction they'll go - not to mention the fact that Hawke says something completely different than what's written next to the icons. Annoying. Very annoying.


I found that most of it was summarized well, Hawke isn't meant to say what is in the chat, it's just a summary just like Mass Effect. It'd be stupid if you knew the precise wording Hawke was going to use, that would take the edge off it. I mean if you knew exactly what Sheperd was going to say in his awesome speeches it wouldn't sound as cool would it?

Sorry if that wasn't what you meant. But that's what it came across as to me.


And that is exactly why I stopped playing ME2 after half an hour. I want to roleplay my character. With the kind of system in ME or DA2 I feel like I can't. When your brother/sister dies, one of the choices you can klick on is "At least father is not alone now." (or something close to that, I don't remember the exact words) - gentle humour. What Hawke actually said was something so massively insensitive - what kind of person says that to their mother in a situation like this? Not the person I want to play as, that's for sure.
How do I explain this ... I want to roleplay, as in get into the skin of a character, share their brain-space. That was possible to a degree in DA:O, but in DA2 it isn't, because I don't even know what will happen, if I click an answer. That is not my character anymore.

#7307
Revan-Reborn

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The only thing I can fret about is that the two-handed blade didn't feel right. The weapon moved too fast and it didn't do as much damage as I expected(maybe that will change for high level users of the two-handed sword). However, tanking in this game with the shield and sword is a blast!

#7308
apoc_reg

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Bit the bullet and brought the game on steam. I'm convinced enough to nuy the game.

Would like:

show all health bars with the highlight button.

New icons... If your going to revamp and change the UI then don't reuse pointers etc as it looks odd!

#7309
Treize44

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How did I feel about the demo...

Well, I did like this new type and perspective of story for DA:2, while some may make the claim that you don't really know what you're doing and are just being told to do things by npcs, I'd point out that this is only a demo and a very small one at that. You can't make that assumption with the little information provided. This new type of story seems to be from the perspective of a gladatorial esque character, at least that's the kind of feel I get from it. The feeling I've been getting is that the champion has acquired his status in many a fight and was just some average joe initially, was not a grey warden or innately bound for special things. I like that.

The art style while somewhat jarring with the new presentation of the darkspawn didn't really bother me, at least their models looked better than before. There was improvement, so I'll live with it.

The story present was pretty par for the course, it's Bioware, from the snippets in the story it's obvious it's going to be more bioware esque story. If we didn't like that kind of story, we wouldn't be here.

The characters so far I didn't like at all outside of Hawke's family, though again, it was only a demo, if I purchased the game I'm sure I'd gain a much better understanding and hopefully a lot more charactesr than the ones present in the demo.

But finnally, and the crux of it all at least for me, the combat system. I only have a pc (and it's a pretty darn good pc, Phenom II 965, ATI 5870, 4GB of DDR3 16600 ram for all who are wondering) it even managed to handle the DX 11 mode for the inital 10 minutes of the tutorial, at which point it became EXCEEDINGLY laggy and I couldn't manually target a thing. But that's a problem which is reportedly solved, just not in the demo build so I'll pass over on that.

No, the main issue here with the combat system is, it's the same one in Origins, just faster paced, not too much as there is still plenty of time for tactical input (you can just pause the game anyways but I was playing in real time the way through). While the console version does have a different combat system, which isn't tactical but button masher. Here's the thing, the combat in DA:O bored the heck out of me, I didn't want to just click and have my guy move into position and auto attack, and as combat is the meat of games of this type, it is a huge detracting factor for me that there doesn't appear to be a toggle in place, and I've been unable to get a developer response as to whether there is one, simply multiple users (like myself) claiming there is and is not.

The "new" conversation wheel is simply the system from Mass Effect, a game I like and I'm sure quite a few people here do. So it's fine by me, it's not even really worth mentioning because it seems to be more of a copy/paste thing than anything. As it is the EXACT same conversation system, not that that's a bad thing.

Though it seems that the warrior this time around cannot use dual wielding combat, and that is limited to the rogue, I SEVERELY question this choice as it is in direct contradiction with the last game. My main character dual wielded as did Duncan and I'm sure several other people as well. Why not leave the tree in there for the warrior? And before anyone jumps in and goes off on a rant on how dual wielding is stupid or some other such nonsense. Dual wielding is essentially meant for one on one combat, to provide one with an extra advantage over their singular opponent. WIth the vibe I get from DA:2 as the champion having some sort of gladitorial section of his history, it seems to me it'd fit in perfectly.

So from my impressions of the demo, I will not be buying this game, unless I find out that there is infact a way to toggle between the hack and slash combat and the auto attack variants on the pc version, I'll be passing over DA2.

Summary:
  • High quality story (Bioware)
  • New art style is jarring but graphics are sharp and there was clearly a technical improvement
  • Different type of story telling following a very different type of character (appeals to me personally, may not appeal to some)
  • Same dialouge system as Mass Effect
  • Warrior seems unable to dual wield all of a sudden
  • PC version appears to be stuck with the same combat system from Origins, which is pretty much the only negative I have from the demo, if there was a toggle in place I would buy this game day 1 because I myself to prefer hack and slash combat, there is not, and I do not own a next gen console, so thanks to this revelation from the demo.  I will not be picking up DA2, unless I can get an answer after the games release or from a developer as to whether or not this is the case.


#7310
Veracruz

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Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Therefore it is my opinion that we should be able to chose exactly what our character is going to say rather than having to guess what he is going to say.

When talking, the player should write, a la Wizardry VII, the words.:P

#7311
xnalimov

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i didn't like it.. that is all ://

#7312
masseffect706

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I respect people not liking the game and all, although I think its awesome. But the game is like an fps? Really? How is it like an fps exactly?

#7313
hekalite

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  (playing on the PC)
I have reconsidered my initial opinion.  I think I probably overreacted to what appear to be mostly cosmetic differences.  Now that I have gotten over my dislike of the new artistic style (or at least set it aside) and taken another look, I do see where many of the changes to the combat system are for the better.   I'm not sure how i feel about the balance between classes, maybe it's just the demo, but after playing all three character classes it does seem like the rogue is the easiest.  All in all, I believe this will be a different game than Origins, but it contains many nice enhancements.  For example, I love the new attributes screen.  Very clear & consice.

So anyway, my apologies to the staff for posting with early impressions instead of letting things settle in.  I'll take those pins out of the voodoo dolls now. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

#7314
Killjoy Cutter

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Treize44 wrote...


[*]PC version appears to be stuck with the same combat system from Origins, which is pretty much the only negative I have from the demo, if there was a toggle in place I would buy this game day 1 because I myself to prefer hack and slash combat, there is not, and I do not own a next gen console, so thanks to this revelation from the demo.  I will not be picking up DA2, unless I can get an answer after the games release or from a developer as to whether or not this is the case. 

[*]

  The fact that the game still has the DA:O combat system on the PC is one of the reasons I'm going to go ahead and buy it.  If it had a fast-twich consoley control setup, I'd consider the $5 deposit on the pre-order a write-off, and move on to other things.  I'm not interested in constant button-mashing, or in getting an adrenaline rush from something I'm trying to do to relax and unwind.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 27 février 2011 - 05:52 .


#7315
1Nosphorus1

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
opinions can be wrong you know.


Factual opinions can be wrong, but the way you're stating it is that all opinions can be wrong and can be corrected, it's a point of view.

If I said "The sun is bright yellow" and you said "No it's orange" neither are correct, they're just a matter of opinion on what colour pallette you'd think it'd match into.

I disliked the demo, that is my "Opinion" and by definition I am not wrong nor right, but the matter still stands.

I disliked it.

#7316
moilami

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sleepyowlet wrote...

EddySpeddy wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...


This. In DA:O I had options, and I had to think about which one to take, couldn't be sure, if the choice I made was good or bad. Like the Harrowmont/Bhelen thing. Bhelen is a smarmy murderer, Harrowmont comes across as solid and reliable. But Bhelen can save the dwarves, Harrowmont can't.
Now I have three options, and it's already obvious in which direction they'll go - not to mention the fact that Hawke says something completely different than what's written next to the icons. Annoying. Very annoying.


I found that most of it was summarized well, Hawke isn't meant to say what is in the chat, it's just a summary just like Mass Effect. It'd be stupid if you knew the precise wording Hawke was going to use, that would take the edge off it. I mean if you knew exactly what Sheperd was going to say in his awesome speeches it wouldn't sound as cool would it?

Sorry if that wasn't what you meant. But that's what it came across as to me.


And that is exactly why I stopped playing ME2 after half an hour. I want to roleplay my character. With the kind of system in ME or DA2 I feel like I can't. When your brother/sister dies, one of the choices you can klick on is "At least father is not alone now." (or something close to that, I don't remember the exact words) - gentle humour. What Hawke actually said was something so massively insensitive - what kind of person says that to their mother in a situation like this? Not the person I want to play as, that's for sure.
How do I explain this ... I want to roleplay, as in get into the skin of a character, share their brain-space. That was possible to a degree in DA:O, but in DA2 it isn't, because I don't even know what will happen, if I click an answer. That is not my character anymore.


You know, that is perfectly in-line with the general awesumely (sic) sarcastical psychobigotry and badassery fashion today, and that appears to be the main theme in DA2.

R.I.P. Leliana and Wynne. 


Edit: + welcome totally ridiculous combat acrobatics and skills. Need moar badassery. ME MUST BE BIGGEST BADASS IN THE WORLD AND IT MUST SHOW.

Modifié par moilami, 27 février 2011 - 05:55 .


#7317
east555

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I actually liked playing the demo on the xbox360.

- I like the new combat, flows easier and your not waiting forever for your character to move to the next target to attack
-the rogue class, is actually a rogue class, in DAO i thought the rogue was like the warrior with lighter armor and lockpicking skills
-graphics are really good to me, an upgrade from DAO
- i really enjoyed the sarcasm lines you can pick in this, i chuckled lol

It is just a demo though, so i know alot of aspects of the game were locked which sucked like the inventory and creating your characters appearance, but bioware can't let us have all the cookies from the jar

Modifié par east555, 27 février 2011 - 05:56 .


#7318
TEWR

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1Nosphorus1 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
opinions can be wrong you know.


Factual opinions can be wrong, but the way you're stating it is that all opinions can be wrong and can be corrected, it's a point of view.

If I said "The sun is bright yellow" and you said "No it's orange" neither are correct, they're just a matter of opinion on what colour pallette you'd think it'd match into.

I disliked the demo, that is my "Opinion" and by definition I am not wrong nor right, but the matter still stands.

I disliked it.


you didn't read my following comment, where I elaborated on what I meant did you? I realized how that sounded, so I clarified.

And people's opinions of the demo are definitely wrong if they say only idiots will like DA2. I, for one, am no idiot and I liked it.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 février 2011 - 05:55 .


#7319
imnar

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my main problem with the demo is the "action wheel". Maybe I am missing something, but what happened to the on the fly weapon set swap out? For instance i switched to bow and sure my guy will use his melee weapons in close combat, but the melee skills cannot be used.

#7320
walled_in

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had a better time with the rogue then the mage. her moves are beautiful.i was suprisedly impressed with the archery - something that weak in DAO. well done, just dunno how/whetehr i unlocked the bonuses - doesnt say!

#7321
walled_in

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scratch that - saw them in my entitlements after reading the faq

#7322
1Nosphorus1

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
you didn't read my following comment, where I elaborated on what I meant did you? I realized how that sounded, so I clarified.


It wasn't really clarification since most of the points that you've pulled people up on were just matters of opinion and not statements/facts.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
And people's opinions of the demo are definitely wrong if they say only
idiots will like DA2. I, for one, am no idiot and I liked it.


This is an example of an opinion, everything in that sentance is a debateable subject.

#7323
joffmonk

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masseffect706 wrote...

I respect people not liking the game and all, although I think its awesome. But the game is like an fps? Really? How is it like an fps exactly?


Fast Paced Slasher :o
See easy as that.

#7324
TEWR

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whatever I'm not gonna get into some pointless debate on whether the points I've brought people up on were just opinions or facts. I've posted way too many comments on this thread for me to even attempt it.

but no, everything in that sentence is not debatable, as I've seen various forum people saying DA2 is only "for idiots who don't appreciate a true RPG", which has no bearing whatsoever. A true RPG is different to people. An opinion.

I am not an idiot. I liked what the demo showed me. maybe some idiots will like it, but DA2 is not made solely for the idiots.

#7325
aries1001

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I just finished my second playthrough of DA2. And the only thing that really annoys me now is - ahem- the pathfinding. I had to let tactics be tactics and have them to stay 'on' - else my followers wouldn't follow me. And the combat, I still find way too fast...in the demo that is...