8659 réponses à ce sujet

[Akeso42]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

whatever I'm not gonna get into some pointless debate on whether the points I've brought people up on were just opinions or facts. I've posted way too many comments on this thread for me to even attempt it.

but no, everything in that sentence is not debatable, as I've seen various forum people saying DA2 is only "for idiots who don't appreciate a true RPG", which has no bearing whatsoever. A true RPG is different to people. An opinion.

I am not an idiot. I liked what the demo showed me. maybe some idiots will like it, but DA2 is not made solely for the idiots.

At the risk of nitpicking posts:
Anything in the confines of a reaction to a demo is in fact opinion; so is what people think makes a good rpg.   You may disagree, but that doesn't make your opinion fact, no matter how sure of it you are.
No ones said that idiots like this game; that's taking things personal.   Instead one of the dominant opinions is that the game has been simplified to appeal to a new crowd; the dev's have admited this and it's one of the major talking points that the bioware dev's are using right now.   Whether or not this means they're appealing to idiots is also an opinion; an opinion you're dead set on disproving yet no one is actually making.
Frankly, you're taking this discussion here waaaay to personally.

Modifié par Akeso42, 27 février 2011 - 06:20 .

[1Nosphorus1]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

but no, everything in that sentence is not debatable, as I've seen various forum people saying DA2 is only "for idiots who don't appreciate a true RPG", which has no bearing whatsoever. A true RPG is different to people. An opinion

You do realise that a persons opinion of what an idiot is differs from person to person? They're many types of RPG's and you just can't generalise it, if you expect a certain type of RPG in comparison to the prequel, after all this is Dragon Age : 2 then you would expect them to follow the formulae of the previous one, even if the warden wasn't involved there are certain lore limitations/timelines that the title alone restricts them from differing from.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I am not an idiot. I liked what the demo showed me.

You're getting confused between statements of opinions and statements of facts, that quote is a statement of opinion about yourself.

Something I'd like to add to this topic:

Mages, did any of you feel that mind blast was poorly animated and had a small amount of delay?

[EddySpeddy]

walled_in wrote...

had a better time with the rogue then the mage. her moves are beautiful.i was suprisedly impressed with the archery - something that weak in DAO. well done, just dunno how/whetehr i unlocked the bonuses - doesnt say!

I agree with you there, I found playing as an Archer(or mage) in Origins was nearly as bad as rubbing sand paper on my face... it's actually quite fun in this

[sleepyowlet]

1Nosphorus1 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

but no, everything in that sentence is not debatable, as I've seen various forum people saying DA2 is only "for idiots who don't appreciate a true RPG", which has no bearing whatsoever. A true RPG is different to people. An opinion

You do realise that a persons opinion of what an idiot is differs from person to person? They're many types of RPG's and you just can't generalise it, if you expect a certain type of RPG in comparison to the prequel, after all this is Dragon Age : 2 then you would expect them to follow the formulae of the previous one, even if the warden wasn't involved there are certain lore limitations/timelines that the title alone restricts them from differing from.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I am not an idiot. I liked what the demo showed me.

You're getting confused between statements of opinions and statements of facts, that quote is a statement of opinion about yourself.

Something I'd like to add to this topic:

Mages, did any of you feel that mind blast was poorly animated and had a small amount of delay?

Mindblast: Yes, actually. And I'm still trying to figure out what it actually does, if anything at all. It didn't seem to affect the enemies in any way. But hey, I had fun klicking on the little brain. All right, maybe that was needlessly sarcastic, but I'm only human.

[SebiAlex]

Played through it once (mage), it plays like an action game but a really bad one. Where's the block, jump to the side (dodge) and where are the combos? Pressing A 10 times without any diversity is crap. I was bored of the combat after the third encounter. Very disappointing.

[WarHippo]

walled_in wrote...

had a better time with the rogue then the mage. her moves are beautiful.i was suprisedly impressed with the archery - something that weak in DAO. well done, just dunno how/whetehr i unlocked the bonuses - doesnt say!

Ironically these are all the very things that caused me to cancel my pre-order  I really hate The Matrix style hyper fast arcade fighter animations.

[Sad Dragon]

Hello Bioware, and people of the forum!

Sorry for the late feedback but work, travel and an awesome birthday party (not mine) have kept me from posting sooner!

Before i start, i would just like to state that it feels a bit weird giving feedback on the demo as I have already had a chance to test out the game when i visited your office. Somethings felt a bit different between the versions, but most of that is probably just my mind playing tricks on me. Either way, as this is feedback for the demo I will judge solely based on said demo.

Now for the Feedback!

First of all, Nice to see a demo for the game - and thanks for Hayder's Razor, just hope I can get a 2h version for my warrior

I should start by saying that I have only played the demo on PC so all my feedback will be based on how I felt the game played on a PC.

General Feedback:
With the exception of bugs that made starting the game a bit tricky and that the game had to stop during the cut-scenes to load the rest of the scene I thought the demo was great. It showcased mostly the combat. This is something I have no problem with as the story is something I prefer to immerse myself in with the full game where I can take part in the whole story. You also got to try out the new and improved dialog wheel and I would just like to add my voice to the many others who salute you for giving the middle option its own personality. All in all the demo did it's job -- we got to try out the game and get a feel for the mechanics of the game as well as giving us just a feel for how the full game will be.

Camera control and the mouse:
Here is something that annoyed me a little, though I am not sure if other people have brought this up already or if I am alone in this. The quickest and easiest way, I feel, to move around the camera is through the use of the mouse - specifically the right mouse button. The problem here comes from the fact that the right mouse button is also used to target enemies for auto-attacking as well as issuing move orders and at times the game things I want to switch targets or run to somewhere, when I simply want to position the camera to get a better view of the battlefield. You can surely understand why this might be frustrating. Switching targets hasn't happened to me that much and the times it happened it wasn't that annoying, as i were still hitting something. The moving around part however not only stops me from attacking an enemy during the time it takes for my PC to run to what ever place I accidentally clicked at but it also runs the chance of positioning my PC in a less then advantageous position.
This could easily be solved by being able to toggle if you want to use the mouse for movement of just AWSD.

Social Skills:
I for one feel a bit sad to see that the social skills have been removed. I am probably a bit partial in this as the one thing I love about, what I think of as, an RPG's is that you can influence the story by how you wish to play the character and dialog, for me, is a big part of that. From what I have read you have switched to a system similar to how Paragon and Renegade worked in ME2 where if you picked the paragon path most of the time you unlocked the diplomatic option, which was ok. Personally I would just love to see dialogue being treated in the same way as combat -- not just words that will get you to roughtly the same end, but as something as integral to the progression as getting through the next horde of darkspawn or killing a boss. Sure you might find a place in a story where you get to choose path A or path B through dialogue but that is not the same as being able to choose how you handle NPC interactions on a deeper scale. Now I'm not saying this game can't deliver good moments like this and I am definetly not saying that the dialogue wheel is a limitation cause I don't think it is. What makes me a bit sad here is the lack of a social skill. You can choose to spec your character into a god with a two handed blade or a impenetrable wall but you can't influence how socially skilled they are. Adding this would not take anythign away from those who want to focus more on the combat side of things, they can simply choose not to spec into the social side so I don't feel that would be a limiting issue -- the time to produce the extra content however might. Again, this might just be me talking here, but I felt that I should share my thoughts on the topic just in case.

Sibling Death:
There have been a lot of talk about this topic so I shall try to be brief. Now that we have access to some meta-gaming information (that both are potential companions) this situation have made me wonder. I do get why we can't choose to save sibling A over sibling B -- as there are story mechanics behind that, so it doesn't feel as wrong as killing of Mhairi in awakening. My thoughts here is that the dead sibling needs to play a part in the story as a whole. If the impact of the death ends with the darkspawn sneaking up on them and Flemeth coming to the rescue I don't see why you couldn't have added some condition to let the players save both. Might have it tied to imported characters from DAO (with DLCs) in some way. Still this demo doesn't properly showcase either sibling nor let us know whats in store for them later in the game so all in all it is way to early so say anything more on this subject. Just my thoughts.

Combat:
Yes! Yes, yes, yes! Great work guys. Combat in DA2 is, in my humble opinion, vastly improved from the original. It feels way more responsive and (even though its still auto attacks and choosing which ability to use) more involving. There are however some problems as well - the big one being the targeting system. As it is now you can only have one target for the whole group. As it is now, if you have character A as the player controled character and tell him to attack monster A then swap to character B and tell him to attack monser B and then switch back to character A and tell him to use an ability character A will try and use the ability on monster B rather then monster A.
This is the only major flaw I found with the combat and could be solved by simply having a target per character.
A smaller downside I found is that you need to remember to have the right enemy targeted for some abilities as you only get to chose with enemy to use them on if none is targeted otherwise it executes automatically. This however is not really a bad thing as it speeds up the combat -- and after a while you learn how to use it to its fullest potential. And all this is done without sacrificing tactics. Sure I play my warrior more like if it was a hack and slash now then I did in DAO but that's more due to the combat being more engaging i feel, I still used just as much tactics when I played through as my mage.

Final Thoughts:
Great demo that showcased the game and gave us a glimps of what to expect from on the 11th (or 8th). I for one am looking forward to getting my hands on the full version of the game!

Apologies if its a bit of a long wall of text. :/

/Sad Dragon

Modifié par Sad Dragon, 27 février 2011 - 06:39 .

[Cyraxor]

I have now played the demo 4 times through and have to say that its MASSIVE disappointment. I have the DA2 pre-ordered but I have to think about canceling it. Main griefs are combat system and camera angles.

[I Ryukage I]

Capone666 wrote...

It was upsetting. Making characters blink more and slightly sway while waiting for hawke to fubblingly spout off very well acted lines is not immersion.<br />
<br />
Again, What does a PURPLE DIAMOND possibly refer to in regards to tone?

Is it really that hard to know which each dialougue option means ? Top for "good natured" center for "sarcastic" and bottom for "aggressive/evil"

[Demo-Mike]

Cyraxor wrote...

I have now played the demo 4 times through and have to say that its MASSIVE disappointment. I have the DA2 pre-ordered but I have to think about canceling it. Main griefs are combat system and camera angles.

Cant be that bad if you palyed it four times

[Killjoy Cutter]

It would be nice to know what Hawke is going to say...

[TEWR]

I'd like to say, I'm not getting into a debate. I may be right, I may be wrong, I may be both or I may be neither. Maybe you're one of those options. Frankly, whatever the case may be, I don't care. I just want to enjoy the demo and DA2, which for me is hard because I see comments that I feel the need to respond to. No matter how hard I try not to respond to them, I end up responding.

And, people have been saying DA2 is for the idiots. At the very least, they're saying it's for the ADD people out there, which is.... all I can say is that I want to dive through my computer and into their computer area and slap them for saying that. You look through the last 50 or so pages, you'll find some comments along that area.

EDIT: I'm not mad, maybe irritated, but that's what the Bioware Forums do to me.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 février 2011 - 06:55 .

[Alregard]

I want to say that I absolutely loved the game play in the Dragon Age II demo. The responsiveness is awesome and a total improvement over the combat system from Origins/Awakening. I am excited for this new game!  I'm glad that its a parallel story from the first game, I think seeing the story from a different perspective with interactions and engagements improves and deepens the lore.

Modifié par Alregard, 27 février 2011 - 07:03 .

[Wilbertfrog]

I’ll try and give some roughly balanced feedback. Let me start by saying that I am a long-term Bioware gamer and fan. I approach gaming from a fairly broad perspective; I’m more interested by the overall experience of the game, not bits and pieces such as, I dunno, spreadsheet style character building, or super-realism. What I mean is, I come down on the fence for the RPG/Action debate – I don’t necessarily prefer one style over the other.

For the record: I played on the PC, a male S&S warrior, a male DW rogue, a female B&A rogue, and a female mage. Anyway…

Graphics. Meh. The characters are shinier and “stylish”, presenting a new aesthetic which seems heavily influenced by games like Final Fantasy. Personally, I’m not a fan of the new look. Frankly, the game looks like Fable. I don’t play Bioware games to see cheap JRPG graphics. Granted, DAO characters were bland to look at, and the sequel is definitely more vibrant and colourful, but there is a lack of detail (at least at the moment), and for me, I would have preferred an attempt at something more true to Bioware’s roots. The scenery was really unimpressive. Very very bland. Very lifeless. The few weapons/armour we got to see were similarly uninspiring. For me: too spikey, too unrealistic, too Final Fantasy. I didn’t mind the new darkspawn design, but the ogre looked like a grumpy baby. I have no idea where the team was coming from with this one. The original ogre design was awesome! I think my main problem here is that I don’t like the aesthetic shift. I think it’s a silly attempt to appeal to the wider market – lacking the realistic detail of HFRPGs (like Oblivion), but also the originality of good JRPGS (Final Fantasy).

The music was awesome. The voice acting was good too. A few glitches here and there, but I figure they’ll be ironed out over the next few weeks. All the sound effects were satisfying, the clangs and blasts were all in good order etc etc.

Gameplay? Iunno. There’s plenty of good streamlining – I liked the levelling and inventory screens etc. I didn’t see any major improvement, or really any change at all, in the combat mechanic. Felt like a very slightly faster DAO. The animations were smoother I suppose, but I hated all the flipping about. What a gimmick!! It looked ridiculous! Spells were meh. Again, they felt very similar to DAO. There didn’t seem to be any real ambition on Bioware’s part to do something new.

Overall I was unimpressed. I’m a hard man to impress at the best of times, but I have high expectations of Bioware, and since the first gameplay leakings, low expectations of this game. So the odds were stacked against the devs for this one. I’m sure I’ll buy and play the game through. The quality of Bioware stories will see to that, but I won’t be wowed. Going on the demo, this seems like a copout. Dragon Age Origins was one of those weird games that was well reviewed, well received, but lacking in marketability. I think that’s the key here. Dragon Age 2 has marketability written all over it: trendy visual style, more intense (arguably) combat, and gimmicky backflips. Nothing says mass culture like backflips.

I think my major criticism is the team’s response to Origins. DA2 is not building on its prequel. We already know that the story is more or less removed from that of the first game. Visually, the game has been totally redesigned, mechanically; everything’s recycled; down to the Mass Effect wheel. Disappointing really, but this game won’t hit the (target) mass audience that games like COD pull. The majority of gamers don’t enjoy point and click, and DA2, dressed up as it may be, is a point and click RPG. By attempting to push into the mass market (which I don’t think it will), the problems with DAO have been left unaddressed. The developers’ time has gone into far more artificial things. One of the tags of DAO was “staying true to Baldur’s gate.” DAO wasn’t perfect. The experience seemed removed, and it was a little clunky. However, if Bioware committed to that slogan, and attempted to improve the elements that weren’t quite there in DAO, and bring some fresh ideas to the table as well: I would be much happier. What we have instead, and I stress, from the demo, is DAO in a shiny new pair of shoes. What we wanted to see was new socks. Let that sink in…

[Spacelion]

Demo was mighty fine, there was the usual stream of bugs, but it was an enjoyable experience overall. Replay!

[Panpsychist]

TheBorstalboy1 wrote...

No I mean made for children. The darkspawn look like those things from Fraggle Rock.

Nice way to explain what you mean! LOL!

[Ravenlyx]

Cyraxor wrote...

I have now played the demo 4 times through and have to say that its MASSIVE disappointment. I have the DA2 pre-ordered but I have to think about canceling it. Main griefs are combat system and camera angles.

+1

-Ea 1 : What it is like Dragon Age ? Did you play it ?
-Ea 2 : Yes,i played it.You have swords and you use magic.İt's a good TPS ,like lara croft.
-Ea 1 : Man ,nowadays we can't sale swords and magic  or so.Put Ak47 in DA2 and it's going to be fps.

[Hottspitta jR]

I'm starting to get used to the new interface design and i love it.
The style gives it more of a fast pased feel, even though you can do both.
I went back to the first dragon age, and i noticed how i mised the fast paced feel!_

Modifié par Hottspitta jR, 27 février 2011 - 07:25 .

[sleepyowlet]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'd like to say, I'm not getting into a debate. I may be right, I may be wrong, I may be both or I may be neither. Maybe you're one of those options. Frankly, whatever the case may be, I don't care. I just want to enjoy the demo and DA2, which for me is hard because I see comments that I feel the need to respond to. No matter how hard I try not to respond to them, I end up responding.

And, people have been saying DA2 is for the idiots. At the very least, they're saying it's for the ADD people out there, which is.... all I can say is that I want to dive through my computer and into their computer area and slap them for saying that. You look through the last 50 or so pages, you'll find some comments along that area.

EDIT: I'm not mad, maybe irritated, but that's what the Bioware Forums do to me.

You are absolutely right. It pains me too to read such things - and I'm one of those who intensely disliked the demo because of the conversation wheel and the voiced Hawke.
I actually agree with a lot of things those critics say - but it makes me sad that they choose to insult people that have another opinion. Especially since their (thouroughly valid) criticisms would be taken a lot more seriously, if they had chosen to behave with a little more decorum.

[1Nosphorus1]

sleepyowlet wrote...
Mindblast: Yes, actually. And I'm still trying to figure out what it actually does, if anything at all.

As far as I'm aware it's meant to knock the enemies over and make them forget who they were attacking first, a bit like dropping threat, however there is a slight delay/reaction to it which is enfuriating, plus threat is picked up almost immediately straight again after.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I'd like to say, I'm not getting into a debate. I may be right, I may be wrong, I may be both
or I may be neither. Maybe you're one of those options...

And, people have been saying DA2 is for idiots...

Unless you're content with not responding directly to people concerning their
opinion and enforcing your own upon them then you're fine to do what you
like.

As I said, people hold their opinions about everything, PC's vs Consoles, TV's vs Monitors, you name it and people will argue about why they think A is better than B.

I've been in this topic since around about page 4 and have checked back every day since then andplayed catch up, fair enough it's taken a lot of my time but I was interested in finding out if I wasn't the only one who didn't enjoy the
demo, despite trying out every class to get a feel of the game and see where I could fit in, I couldn't.

Anyway,turn a blind eye to comments lik that and you'll find that life is that much easier, if you try to pick a fight with anyone and everyone for thinking differently than you do you'll find that the only way you can get through to them is by imposing a facist regime and adding punishments to the scheme of things.

Modifié par 1Nosphorus1, 27 février 2011 - 07:11 .

[Eurypterid]

Please take the side convos to PMs. This thread is for feedback on the demo.

[Wynne]

Erika T wrote...

But why fix what's not broken?  
what
was wrong with the beautifully carved, medieval interface, for example
in the inventory screen or the levelling up screen?  why make it all
modern and bland?
what was wrong with the existing abilities, for example flaming swords?  
what
was wrong with a static mage - mages do not bounce around like ninjas,
they concentrate to do magic!  why is bethany trashing around doing a
simple spell? 
why are they wearing hairstyles like they just got out
of a designer salon? (fem hawke, cassandra)  - it just doesnt seem
real.  its supposed to be a medieval story?
why not incorporate
different classes?  you dont have to give them a sotry - hawke could
have been a lotheringian surface dwarf or an elf living in lothering, we
saw examples of that - why only human?

why does isabela look
like someone out of a manga? i am all for pretty ladies, but she does
not look attractive, she looks a joke.  the whole world doesnt seem
real.  hawkes mother(!!!)) looks hotter than all 20 y old student chicks
 in the borough of islington put together... why?  this used to be an
intelligent game. 

The beautifully carved, medieval interface was a bit distracting, whereas the simple one now in place was pretty easy to ignore.

The existing abilities--were frankly extremely broken. About half were interesting, not enough were class-specific, some were over-powered (cone of cold, Arcane Warrior) while others were pathetically useless (feign death, Shapeshifter.) 

A static mage... looks pathetic, tossing little sparklies out of its staff. Now they actually know basic self-defense with the staff which anyone could do. They look now as if they've been taught a thing or two, like they have discipline rather than just "spit little cloud which does almost no damage", lather, rinse, repeat. The answer is, "because mages actually moving at all looks about twenty  times cooler than a mage just standing there lamely trying to look as if they're doing anything."

The hairstyles--they looked that way in Origins, too, except that the braids were often unrealistic. How is this fixing what wasn't broken?

By classes, you mean races. The answer is, because this is the story of a human, because most people
played human to an overwhelming degree in Origins, and because limiting Hawke a bit allows them to do more with the story. Doesn't mean this will be every game they do.

The looks we see in the demo aren't always the finished looks--the tears Aveline cries aren't even in where they're supposed to be, and Stan Woo has said QA testing improved 2h warrior combat since as well. Not sure how overly attractive characters make a game "not intelligent", I think there's a much better way to criticize this sort of thing.

Why fix what isn't broken? The answers to that:

• It was always broken, you just learned to love the brokenness.
• Because even if it's not broken, it can often be greatly improved.

Modifié par Wynne, 27 février 2011 - 07:12 .

[voad]

TransientNomad wrote...

I think the main reason for "bashing" occurs when someone makes a baseless claim. A perfect example being "DA2 is nothing but a action game for the cafeine addled, while the truly sophisticated of us enjoy DAOs system more."

I have seen that time and again on this thread. The problem with that is threefold.

1.) The combat is exactly the same as DAO in the demo only faster. It's like all the characters have momentum on.

2.) It belittles people who liked the demo (who according to the polls are the overwhelming majority).

3.) While you can like or dislike the demo, be prepared to defend your opinion with facts that can be substantiated.

No, no it isn't. Let's see... the combat has been sped up alot. No tactical view. No auto attack. No to hit dice rolls that I've seen. Meaning everytime you attack it lands. Very easy to just cheese the enemy by running around and kitting them. All attacks are needlessly flashier. How is the combat exactly the same only sped up?


I played through the demo and I was not expecting much after seeing the trailers, and that is exactly what I got. I didn't care for the combat, or the art direction. Even the framed narative that they are boasting seems to pale in comparison to the one offered in Alpha Protocol... which BW are shamelessly borrowwing from Obsidian. I know it was a small glimpse of the story and narrative but the key thing was that it wasn't Hawk being questioned. It was another character being questioned that you have absolutley no control of.... so it's nothing more than a pointless cutscene. At least in AP you could influence your questioner. It doesn't appear that you can hear.

So for negatives, I don't really like the new art direction. Some characters look good while others look like cartoons. I hated the combat, it did feel very much like dynasty warriors to me. Funny that I was scolded for saying so earlier when there was just a video to go off of. But now some seem to agree with me. The dialog seems ok, I felt nothing for any of the companions but it was a small demo so I really can't expect anything in that small time frame. The menus are terrible, the animations are over the top to the point of being comedic. And the level design seemed to be the narrowest of dirt brown pathways for the most part. Even later in the demo when you are in the city things didn't look very appealing.


It's kind of funny. BW actually seemed to take steps towards issues I had with DA:O, which was blance between classes, abilities, and stats. The archer seems to actually be much more effective this time around. I haven't tried the rogue out yet, I only played the demo once and I just barely even finished it. I may try the rogue to see what was changed there as well. The skill trees seem a bit better I suppose too. But in the process of tweeking and addressing some of those issues they have ruined everything else I liked about DA, to the point that I doubt any of it could be fixed should they decide to release an SDK... which I doubt will happen anyhow.

[88mphSlayer]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'd like to say, I'm not getting into a debate. I may be right, I may be wrong, I may be both or I may be neither. Maybe you're one of those options. Frankly, whatever the case may be, I don't care. I just want to enjoy the demo and DA2, which for me is hard because I see comments that I feel the need to respond to. No matter how hard I try not to respond to them, I end up responding.

And, people have been saying DA2 is for the idiots. At the very least, they're saying it's for the ADD people out there, which is.... all I can say is that I want to dive through my computer and into their computer area and slap them for saying that. You look through the last 50 or so pages, you'll find some comments along that area.

EDIT: I'm not mad, maybe irritated, but that's what the Bioware Forums do to me.

yeah the name calling is really dumb of DAO purists when DAO itself has been mocked by fans of other franchises

regardless there are things that have changed, whether you like them or not seems to largely be how much formula change you can tolerate, i can totally understand where people come from if they were only interested in DAO because they wanted another Baldur's Gate, although i think even those people can acknowledge that DAO never really succeeded at being a true BG spiritual successor but still took whatever they could get...

now that DA2 is doing something different than being a BG spiritual successor, the line between enjoyment vs. disgust seems to be - when you played DAO did you enjoy it for its nostalgic properties? or did you enjoy it for what it did based on its own merits? i think if you enjoyed DAO for its own merits you can more easily stomach changes

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 27 février 2011 - 07:28 .