8659 réponses à ce sujet

[Baelyn]

Xaltar81 wrote...

How does this effect DA2?
Simple, it has been made "console friendly" in an effort to make it more popular amongst the console crowd.

Whats wrong with this? They want more people to enjoy their games. Keep in mind all of this is coming from me, a PC gamer mostly.

What does that mean?
Even simpler, hello Mass Effect clone in a fantasy medievil setting. Basicly almost every element that made DA:O a good game has taken it up the rear so that the console version feels right....

And what were those elements specifically that were taken out to make the "console version feel right?"

RPG games do not belong on console. I am aware that many people cannot afford a suitable PC to play such titles but the fact remains that a good RPG will play poorly on a console seeing as the controll systems are far more limited.

This is absolutely not true. While the PC may be better at handling all of the controls of a traditional RPG, you cannot argue, and have no ground to stand on, by saying RPG's should only be limited to PC's. I rather enjoyed Oblivion on my xBox. Granted I liked it more on my PC but there is no reason to just screw over all the console gamers out there by saying "Tough, RPG's don't belong on consoles. Buy a PC."

I hated ME2, it felt like a poor excuse for an FPS with some limited RPG elements thrown in.

Because it wasn't a FPS?

Dragon Age however is not well suited to the console market and doing this to it is in my opinion a death blow to the franchise I had initially had high hopes for.

It sold better on the console than on the PC, how can you say it isn't suited for the console? True it had its issues that were much better on the PC but so does DA2. I continue to be amazed at the number of people that think DA2 is "omg not even anything like DA:O its completely different game omgz" but then can't back that up with any substantial evidence. Go watch IGN's comparison on the console from DA:O to DA2. Its very similar if not exact with only upgrades in flashier combat (animations...NOT gameplay) and better textures.

Bioware is dead, the EA machine has assimilated it and our beloved titles shall be no more.

Because you are in a position to say this? Are you psychic? Do you work for Bioware and know whats going on internally with EA? You can make assumptions and have opinions if you want but you can not state this as fact.

*Edit* I do apologize for just the picture...I normally don't do that as I think that contributing anything to a thread other than constructive criticism/praise is annoying and demeans threads. Hence why I am posting my detailed thoughts on your post and my opinions on them.

Please take this as a discussion and not an attack.

Modifié par Baelyn, 02 mars 2011 - 09:32 .

[Oerwein]

Lumikki wrote...

Oerwein wrote...

one question:
is it just the demo or will there be all the time those cutscenes in the middle of the combat - i mean real cutscene that are not smooth but all the sudden and really surprising, e.g. at the beginning of the demo (before you meat Aveline) when you are still fighting against 3-4 darkspawn, suddenly there is a cutscene and all of them are dead after it. that was really bad.

I think cut scenes will be even in middle. If I'm hones, I like cinematic story telling, but to be truth it fits alot better in Mass Effect than Dragon Age combat. Problem is that in DA it feels little like it's seperated thing, while in ME it can be done very smooth ways. It's the perspective how combat is done. Cinema is like multible different perspectives, while isometric or first person, is just one.

i kinda like cutscenes - that`s not the issue. the thing is that i dislike being in the middle of fighting enemies and then all the sudden a cutscene - it is a very abrupt transition. wil that be smoother in the final game?

[Baelyn]

Oerwein wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Oerwein wrote...

one question:
is it just the demo or will there be all the time those cutscenes in the middle of the combat - i mean real cutscene that are not smooth but all the sudden and really surprising, e.g. at the beginning of the demo (before you meat Aveline) when you are still fighting against 3-4 darkspawn, suddenly there is a cutscene and all of them are dead after it. that was really bad.

I think cut scenes will be even in middle. If I'm hones, I like cinematic story telling, but to be truth it fits alot better in Mass Effect than Dragon Age combat. Problem is that in DA it feels little like it's seperated thing, while in ME it can be done very smooth ways. It's the perspective how combat is done. Cinema is like multible different perspectives, while isometric or first person, is just one.

i kinda like cutscenes - that`s not the issue. the thing is that i dislike being in the middle of fighting enemies and then all the sudden a cutscene - it is a very abrupt transition. wil that be smoother in the final game?

I think this may just be the poor splicing/transitions we saw in the demo. Obviously alot of it was not very smooth and we know the final release is much different...So we can hope ;-)

[Alexus_VG]

Baelyn wrote...

Xaltar81 wrote...

How does this effect DA2?
Simple, it has been made "console friendly" in an effort to make it more popular amongst the console crowd.

Whats wrong with this? They want more people to enjoy their games. Keep in mind all of this is coming from me, a PC gamer mostly.

What does that mean?
Even simpler, hello Mass Effect clone in a fantasy medievil setting. Basicly almost every element that made DA:O a good game has taken it up the rear so that the console version feels right....

And what were those elements specifically that were taken out to make the "console version feel right?"

I would be more than happy to adress both of those statments and try not to repeat my previous post too much.

One what's wrong with this? A hell of a lot if it means decreasing the overall enjoyment value of the game which brings me to the second comment. The dialog and story mechanics for a start have been tenderly raped in DA 2. Argue as you will but to me this is simply fact.

And to everyone else that seems to protest against those complaining without actually making a sensible argument well this is a feedback thread and we dont all like what's been done in this expansion. All are allowed their own oppinion so deal with it.

[Xaltar81]

Cut out elements, mm, let me see. Completely linear storyline with extremely limited dialogue options, NPCs being forced to be a part of your party no mater what you choose. No more customization of your, I mean Bioware's character. Mass Effect style dialogue system vs DA:Os immersive and engaging tree system. Voice acting on the protagonist that does in no way match the option you clicked. I could go on for pages.

I did not say that RPGs should not be ported to console, I said that they should not be developed for console and then ported to PC, your comment about Oblivion only serves to make my point.

I didn't like ME2 because it was marketed as an RPG and it was not. Just like DA2 is not, its a hybrid and a bad one.

All it takes is a quick google to find a plethora of reviews critcizing this game far worse than I did. You like the game, thats great for you and I'm sure Bioware will be happy to hear it. The Bioware I knew and loved since BG1 is dead, it is not speculation or premonition, it is fact based on the direction this sequal has taken.

edit seeing as you were nice enough to edit

Modifié par Xaltar81, 02 mars 2011 - 09:45 .

[Baelyn]

Alexus_VG wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

Xaltar81 wrote...

How does this effect DA2?
Simple, it has been made "console friendly" in an effort to make it more popular amongst the console crowd.

Whats wrong with this? They want more people to enjoy their games. Keep in mind all of this is coming from me, a PC gamer mostly.

What does that mean?
Even simpler, hello Mass Effect clone in a fantasy medievil setting. Basicly almost every element that made DA:O a good game has taken it up the rear so that the console version feels right....

And what were those elements specifically that were taken out to make the "console version feel right?"

I would be more than happy to adress both of those statments and try not to repeat my previous post too much.

One what's wrong with this? A hell of a lot if it means decreasing the overall enjoyment value of the game which brings me to the second comment. The dialog and story mechanics for a start have been tenderly raped in DA 2. Argue as you will but to me this is simply fact.

And to everyone else that seems to protest against those complaining without actually making a sensible argument well this is a feedback thread and we dont all like what's been done in this expansion. All are allowed their own oppinion so deal with it.

But you still fail to relate how the console is why you believe the dialogue and story mechanics are different.

I for one do not think they are different. If you don't understand how the dialogue system works its essentially the same as DA:O if you had read the thread by Gaider about how it works. Its the same thing in different packaging. As you still have the same amount of choices on dialgoue its just broken out into multiple dialogue wheels which actually allows them to do more with it. Again this has nothing to do with the console as DA:O had the same system on consoles and PC and they behaved exactly the same. Having a dialogue wheel isn't making the game more console friendly....Its just moving the stick around in a circle instead of up and down.

How can you make judgements on the story of game that you haven't even played yet?

All are allowed to their opinion...as are those that disagree with them, hence my posting on this. There is no "dealing" with it. You liking and/or enjoying the game has no impact on the fact that I will. I come here to discuss differeing opinions and elaborate with people that don't have different opinions than mine. Thats what this whole forum is about. To discuss.

Edit: Typo

Modifié par Baelyn, 02 mars 2011 - 09:49 .

[Alexus_VG]

Lumikki wrote...

Xaltar81 wrote...

I have enjoyed quite a few EA titles in the past but I feel thier direction with Bioware's Dragon Age franchise is ill advised and poorly researched. Rather than broaden the target market, as they seem to have attempted, they have quite sucessfully removed almost all of the alure that DA:O had and turned it into a poor adaptation of another title that was more sucessful on console.

You mean if game isn't design for your taste, it's poorly researched?

PS: I'm PC player.

Limikki I think the point here is that we are not discussing any number of different games such as FPS or action adventure that I dont really like but wouldn't bother critisising because they are simply not my cup of tea. We are dicussing DA2 specificly a a sequel to DA:O and classified as an RPG game and as such it is poorly reaserched and developed.

[Xaltar81]

We will have to see when the game is released. I hope that the demo was just a very poor representation of the final game and that you are in fact right. I am a big fan of most if not all Bioware's titles prior to ME2 and would be most upset to be proved right on this. Based on the demo however, which is what this feedback is about, my coments hold true. Most of the unapealing changes, at least to me, I have seen have come about directly as a result to the negative feedback from console players about DA:O. While I feel it is good to adress actual issues I do feel that doing so at the expense of the flavor and style of an otherwise sucessful game is just poor planning.

[Alexus_VG]

Xaltar81 wrote...

We will have to see when the game is released. I hope that the demo was just a very poor representation of the final game and that you are in fact right. I am a big fan of most if not all Bioware's titles prior to ME2 and would be most upset to be proved right on this. Based on the demo however, which is what this feedback is about, my coments hold true. Most of the unapealing changes, at least to me, I have seen have come about directly as a result to the negative feedback from console players about DA:O. While I feel it is good to adress actual issues I do feel that doing so at the expense of the flavor and style of an otherwise sucessful game is just poor planning.

Agreed here.

And as to the reason I dont like the new dialog system well I would think that is obvious. The character replies are short and non descriptive on the dialog tree and have little to do with what the character ends up saying. I do believe that that aspect of it has been influenced by console friendly development in reguards to consoles being played as whole on lower resolution screens that make large amounts of sentences on dialog trees hard to go through.

[wulf3n]

I have a quick question to the people who keep saying DA2 is too "consoley" are you by any chance playing on a console?
Because combat in Origins to DA2 on PC isn't much different.

[Baelyn]

Xaltar81 wrote...

Cut out elements, mm, let me see. Completely linear storyline with extremely limited dialogue options, NPCs being forced to be a part of your party no mater what you choose. No more customization of your, I mean Bioware's character. Mass Effect style dialogue system vs DA:Os immersive and engaging tree system. Voice acting on the protagonist that does in no way match the option you clicked. I could go on for pages.

I think you might not know exactly how the new dialogue wheel works as I was confused at first as well. There is a thread...that I will try to find....where David Gaider goes into detail explaining how it works and explains it as there are essentially the same options as DA:O...its just broken out into multiple Dialogue wheels. Heres an example:

Typical DA:O dialogue

1.Good/diplomatic dialogue option
2.Snarky/Snide dialogue option
3.Mean/Aggressive dialogue option
4.Investigation option 1 (leads to a different dialogue tree with multiple questions)
5.Investigation option 2 (Same as above)
6. Either another Investigation option or a (kill)

In DA2 this is broken up into multiple wheels...:Dialogue wheel where you are given the first 3 options...Investigation wheel where you can be given up to 5 options....and a choice wheel (supposedly up to 5 but normally only 3)

In essence it is the same options. You only get the illusion that it is less because it is broken upp and pieced out. I don't think the demo was very good at this as it was obvious they only wanted to showcase the combat and graphics.

Voice acting is just pure hit or miss. Some love it...Some hate it. I am actually intrigued as Two different characters could pick the same dialogue option and hear different things. What Hawke actually says is based on how you have made choices in the past...so in essence this is actually more towards making him your character.

I did not say that RPGs should not be ported to console, I said that they should not be developed for console and then ported to PC, your comment about Oblivion only serves to make my point.

Well you didnt say that...but to be fair you didn't say what I was making you out to have said either. Thanks for clearing that up although I still disagree. ;-)

All it takes is a quick google to find a plethora of reviews critcizing this game far worse than I did. You like the game, thats great for you and I'm sure Bioware will be happy to hear it. The Bioware I knew and loved since BG1 is dead, it is not speculation or premonition, it is fact based on the direction this sequal has taken.

Could I convince you to wait and see for yourself? Reviews are reviews...and demos are demos. I would strongly urge you to just give it a shot. Even if not right away.

edit seeing as you were nice enough to edit

I do apologize to you for any harshness that may have come across.

[Graunt]

Parahexavoctal wrote...

Graunt wrote...
It also doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have a target automatically acquired for the player charcter if you're in control of that character.  How would they accomplish this in a smart way anway?  Not everyone would always pick the highest or lowest health targets.

How about:
If something hits the controlled character, and the controlled character is in range and doesn't have another target, start auto-attcking the guy that just hit you. If you want a different target, you can acquire them manually and the player character wouldn't have spent the intervening time span twiddling their thumbs.

DAO had the same problem iirc, it was annoying that you lost dps time when your target died, before you could select a new one, and pausing to minimize the lost time was annoying as well. And really, for most of the cannon fodder, auto-acquiring the next target in range and starting to attack it is perfectly fine. Even if pausing and metriculously finding the best target might be a little more effective, I doubt it works out faster for trash mobs.

Well ok, I can see the "problem"  I suppose, but then I never had an issue with the nanosecond it took to pick a new target.  I didn't simply stand there wondering why my guy wasn't attacking anything.  The game handles what you're suggesting anyway for characters you are not currently controlling.  Please, it's a single player game...don't act like the whole second or two of "lost DPS" is going to ruin your game or that you're somehow competing on some raid damage meter.

Do some of you simply not look at the health bars, or have the UI setup to always display them?  It's not hard to tell when it's time to switch targets.  What the game needs more than an automated feature is a "target nearest enemy" key.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 mars 2011 - 10:09 .

[Xaltar81]

@Wulf3n:
Playing on PC, but I had nothing negative to say about the combat, that at least I felt was somewhat better. Preference again, some my not like it but I mentioned most, if not all of my gripes with the demo. Seeing as there were too many for me to consider buying the game I didn't bother with the compliments. Perhaps I should have.

@Baelyn:

I am hoping the final game will prove me wrong as I, like a lot posting here, have been eagerly anticipating DA2. The demo however seems to confirm my worst fears reguarding the changes. I cannot say enough how happy I will be to discover that the demo was simply lacking and the game turns out more along the lines I beleive we all hoped it would.

We can afterall only comment on experience and well, the demo failed to impress me at all. I would happily sacrifice graphics and combat for the sake of the RPG elements I came to love in DA:O. If these remain intact with DA2 I will be a happy camper but the demo has left me with a sick feeling in my gut.

[Lumikki]

Alexus_VG wrote...

Lumikki I think the point here is that we are not discussing any number of different games such as FPS or action adventure that I dont really like but wouldn't bother critisising because they are simply not my cup of tea. We are dicussing DA2 specificly a a sequel to DA:O and classified as an RPG game and as such it is poorly reaserched and developed.

Nor I was discussing anything else than RPG. I'm pretty sure by now most of us here in this forum knows that people here has very different idea as what RPG really is. So, what is sayed, way you want it or way someone else wants it. It's the basic difference between statical gameplay and actually role-playing role. While DA2 is little steamlined and alot more cinematic compared DAO, all elements what defines any RPG are in DA2. So, how you define poorly researched, because DA2 did not go direction where you wanted or how you define RPG? That was hole point, how you want it, isn't allways same how others want they RPG.

[Graunt]

PC & Console players have VERY different tastes.

I never get this argument.  It doesn't hurt to diversify.  Everything that comes out for both PC and console I'll get for the PC hands down, but there are plenty of very great console games that the PC does not have, or it gets released later as a really shoddy port.  There are just as many dull PC games as there are "dumb" console games. 

More "modern" gamers play on consoles simply because consoles are a buy it and forget it single component that never needs to be worried about, and it's designed first and foremost to play games.  PCs are not.  The technology for consoles is much greater than it ever has been before too and the graphics and processing power niche the PC once had is even smaller than ever before (even if the PC is still technologically superior, not nearly as many people have top of the line systems, and developers have to design games around what the average consumer actually owns).

Modifié par Graunt, 02 mars 2011 - 10:18 .

[Tomark]

Alexus_VG wrote...


Agreed here.

And as to the reason I dont like the new dialog system well I would think that is obvious. The character replies are short and non descriptive on the dialog tree and have little to do with what the character ends up saying. I do believe that that aspect of it has been influenced by console friendly development in reguards to consoles being played as whole on lower resolution screens that make large amounts of sentences on dialog trees hard to go through.

I'll actually say the opposite here.

I know i was very annoyed by the dialog in DA:O as many, many times what i thought was snark or a joke or encouragement was actually meant to be nasty or agressive.

DA2 having the "emotions" (agressive, pacifying, hard, snark...) instead is not onyl much more useful but actually make us want to hear what the character say.

Not only that, but having all of the options available in DA:O meant the roleplaying was very limited.

We can already see in the demo how the dialog is so much better, with it changing depending if you use one type of dialog more than onters.

Also, i will say the opposite about "being forced" to take characters. don't you remember jory/daved/alistait at the beginning? how is that any different?

Having a bethany/carver thing is also very interesting, as it means lots of quests and dialog options would be closed to us depending on your class, which is great.

And being able to chose the race of the main charvacter? that was one thing that made no sense in most games. It was done decently in DA:O, but even then i believe we could have had so much more personality and customization if there had been but one race.

[Alexus_VG]

Lumikki wrote...

Alexus_VG wrote...

Lumikki I think the point here is that we are not discussing any number of different games such as FPS or action adventure that I dont really like but wouldn't bother critisising because they are simply not my cup of tea. We are dicussing DA2 specificly a a sequel to DA:O and classified as an RPG game and as such it is poorly reaserched and developed.

Nor I was discussing anything else than RPG. I'm pretty sure by now most of us here in this forum knows that people here has very different idea as what RPG really is. So, what is sayed, way you want it or way someone else wants it. It's the basic difference between statical gameplay and actually role-playing role. While DA2 is little steamlined and alot more cinematic compared DAO, all elements what defines any RPG are in DA2. So, how you define poorly researched, because DA2 did not go direction where you wanted or how you define RPG? That was hole point, how you want it, isn't allways same how others want they RPG.

Yes ofcourse Im not implying that there arent a lot of ppl that would disagree with me. After all this thread is about personal feedback and I have given mine as all are free to give theirs. And my judgment on the R&D of this game is based on the fact that I like DA:O and many of it's mechanics and thought it was a leap forward and as to DA2 it seems like they have started by changing a lot of the features that made DA:O so sucsesfull. Again however this is my opinion and though all may not gree with it I am entitled to voicing it.

[Graunt]

Baelyn wrote...
I continue to be amazed at the number of people that think DA2 is "omg not even anything like DA:O its completely different game omgz" but then can't back that up with any substantial evidence. Go watch IGN's comparison on the console from DA:O to DA2. Its very similar if not exact with only upgrades in flashier combat (animations...NOT gameplay) and better textures.

Preaching to the choir.  It only takes two playthroughs of the demo tops to realize you're playing the same game you've already played...just sped up.  Also, unless my memory just failed me, EA already had Bioware when Mass Effect was released.  Some complaints about the second game may be valid, but it was the superior game overall despite the "dumbing down" aspects.

I didn't like ME2 because it was marketed as an RPG and it was not. Just like DA2 is not, its a hybrid and a bad one.

Hate to break your little fishbowl, but yeah...it actually was an RPG, it was just a different kind of RPG.  If anything, it was more of an RPG than most of the "traditional" RPGs because you had much more player control over the combat.  Have you ever played S.T.A.L.K.E.R.?  It had FPS elements obviously, but to say it was not an RPG either would be incorrect too.  A game does not have to be slow and plodding and only use medieval weaponry to be an RPG.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 mars 2011 - 10:38 .

[Lumikki]

Alexus_VG wrote...


Yes ofcourse Im not implying that there arent a lot of ppl that would disagree with me. After all this thread is about personal feedback and I have given mine as all are free to give theirs.

Sure, no problems here.. we all have our own opinions.

And my judgment on the R&D of this game is based on the fact that I like DA:O and many of it's mechanics and thought it was a leap forward and as to DA2 it seems like they have started by changing a lot of the features that made DA:O so sucsesfull. Again however this is my opinion and though all may not gree with it I am entitled to voicing it.

Yeah, but that is the point, like you sayed, it's you opinion. How ever, there are people who has totally opposite opinions. Meaning what you think made DAO so successful, maybe what make DAO worst for someone else and the successfull part was in something totally different than you thinked.

If someone starts to disagree, it doesn't affect anyway the orginal feedback what someone did give, but it does show that someone doesn't agree with the feedback given. Meaning someone is giving opposite opinion as feedback to what someone else did give.

Modifié par Lumikki, 02 mars 2011 - 10:29 .

[Alexus_VG]

I think I would like to clarify that my own comments are as a direct result of playing the demo. There may well be a lot of clarifications on the different aspects of the overall game made by devs that I am not aware of. That said however the demo was disappointing to me and I do hope it does no justice to the final product. And I certainly could not agree that it has the same feel as DA:O but somewhat sped up.

[FlintlockJazz]

Graunt wrote...

Baelyn wrote...
I continue to be amazed at the number of people that think DA2 is "omg not even anything like DA:O its completely different game omgz" but then can't back that up with any substantial evidence. Go watch IGN's comparison on the console from DA:O to DA2. Its very similar if not exact with only upgrades in flashier combat (animations...NOT gameplay) and better textures.

Preaching to the choir.  It only takes two playthroughs of the demo tops to realize you're playing the same game you've already played...just sped up.  Also, unless my memory just failed me, EA already had Bioware when Mass Effect was released.  Some complaints about the second game may be valid, but it was the superior game overall despite the "dumbing down" aspects.

For DAO, PC had isometric view, consoles didn't.  Difficulty levels were done differently on consoles to PCs what with Friendly Fire being enabled only at higher difficulties for console users, so obviously Bioware thought there was enough difference to warrant a change.  Console players complained that the controls were not that good due to being designed for PC, now it's the other way around.  Both consoles and PCs have their advantages but don't think they play the same, each has strengths and weaknesses that should be played to.

[Graunt]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Baelyn wrote...
I continue to be amazed at the number of people that think DA2 is "omg not even anything like DA:O its completely different game omgz" but then can't back that up with any substantial evidence. Go watch IGN's comparison on the console from DA:O to DA2. Its very similar if not exact with only upgrades in flashier combat (animations...NOT gameplay) and better textures.

Preaching to the choir.  It only takes two playthroughs of the demo tops to realize you're playing the same game you've already played...just sped up.  Also, unless my memory just failed me, EA already had Bioware when Mass Effect was released.  Some complaints about the second game may be valid, but it was the superior game overall despite the "dumbing down" aspects.

For DAO, PC had isometric view, consoles didn't.  Difficulty levels were done differently on consoles to PCs what with Friendly Fire being enabled only at higher difficulties for console users, so obviously Bioware thought there was enough difference to warrant a change.  Console players complained that the controls were not that good due to being designed for PC, now it's the other way around.  Both consoles and PCs have their advantages but don't think they play the same, each has strengths and weaknesses that should be played to.

He specifically said "console" comparison.  UI, view and keybinding changes are not changes to the actual gameplay.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 mars 2011 - 10:41 .

[sleepyowlet]

Alexus_VG wrote...

I haven't been following all the updates surrounding the upcoming DA 2 but I have to say that, now having finally tried out the PC demo, I find myself extremly disappointed and that could be an understatment. To start with I cetrainly am a DA:O fan. I thought it was a huge step forward for RPGs and possibly the begining some awsome inovations in the genre. Easily my all time favourite. Judging by the demo and read ups about the sequal, DA 2 is going to be nothing like that.

It's really hard to think of where to start in the regards of critisism. Im not going to get into the artstyle changes because even thought I cant say they are an improvment I could overlook that. Furthermore in reguards to that mods will likly be available very soon after release as usual. But the obvious similarities between DA 2 dialog and story mechanics and ME 2 are possibly the most disappointing element of this sequal. The voiceover is simply horific in reguards to acting and even if it is just a placeholder for the demo I hardly believe there could be a better way to kill immersion. Just as I thought it couldn't get worse I was continually repulsed by the dialog mechanics which were the most offputting factor in ME2. How anyone on the dev team could have thought this would be a prudent direction for DA 2 is simply inexplicable to me. To sum it up the story and dialog mechanics in DA:O were some of the best elements in the game and having them reduced to the level of ME is simply inexcusable.

My second biggest diappointment is certainly gameplay. It is clearly desinged with console in mind alone and I cant help but be reminded of substandard console games such as Darksiders. Very sad indeed.

I am very sorry indeed to have to give such comments reguarding a game in development by Bioware as I really am a fan of their work however I am certainly not going to support a franchise that is clearly such an embarassing addition to an impressive number of inovative and memorable game titles. I don't want to speculate of what kind of restrictions were put in place by EA in reguards to the development of this game but I certainly hope they realise it is an abortion and a huge leap backwards from DA:O.

To summarise on a more humorous and perhaps sad note myself and a few close friends have affectionatly named this sequal Mass Age of Dragon Effect:The Failure. Die hard Bioware fan as I may be I simply can not support what has been done to this sequal by purchasing it and increasing the number of sales as that is likly the only measure by which EA will gauge it's sucess.

Exactly what I was thinking. Said similar things earlier, but I think you really nailed it.

[FlintlockJazz]

Graunt wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

For DAO, PC had isometric view, consoles didn't.  Difficulty levels were done differently on consoles to PCs what with Friendly Fire being enabled only at higher difficulties for console users, so obviously Bioware thought there was enough difference to warrant a change.  Console players complained that the controls were not that good due to being designed for PC, now it's the other way around.  Both consoles and PCs have their advantages but don't think they play the same, each has strengths and weaknesses that should be played to.

He specifically said "console" comparison.  UI, view and keybinding changes are not changes to the actual gameplay.

The lack of isometric view does affect gameplay, it alters what you can do, it's a change to gameplay.  The change in how difficulty works shows that there is a change in the gameplay since console players could not play the game the same way as PC players could.  If you want to get technical, PCs have more memory and are more able to run larger gameworlds while consoles are more stable too.  This is not an attack on consoles, it's just a fact: consoles and PCs are different, and should be treated as such.  A one armed man and a one legged man have different needs to treat their disability, one needs ramps while the other needs help picking stuff up, treating them identically is not going to help them much.

EDIT:  I think the problem here may be that I quoted the wrong person originally, I was intending to respond to a post asking how consoles and PCs are different.

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 02 mars 2011 - 11:15 .

[Graunt]

FlintlockJazz wrote...
The lack of isometric view does affect gameplay, it alters what you can do, it's a change to gameplay.

A) No it doesn't and it's a personal annoyance not having a wider view.  You can still "see" the same enemies you could always see by manipulating the camera.  Terrain has more to do with what you can and cannot do than view.  The gameplay is not affected in any way by the change of the camera.

The change in how difficulty works shows that there is a change in the gameplay since console players could not play the game the same way as PC players could.

Wrong.  Difficulty is not gameplay, it's nothing more than a scalar.

If you want to get technical, PCs have more memory and are more able to run larger gameworlds while consoles are more stable too.

And this is relevant to Dragon Age in what way?  The single largest benefit of having a game for a PC over a console when the game is for either platform is graphical enhancements, usually a superior control scheme as well as mods.  That has nothing to do with the default gameplay.

I really don't understand why you seem to think Bioware is going to develop two seperate games.  DA2:InferiorConsole and DA2:SuperiorPC.  Game developers aren't your friends and they don't care about what your prefered platform is, only that whatever platform sells the most is what they can make the most money off of.

I cetrainly am a DA:O fan. I thought it was a huge step forward for RPGs
and possibly the begining some awsome inovations in the genre.

Every time I read statements like this, I just have to wonder what games these posters have been playing over the last decade.  Practically every RPG Bioware has released since Baldur's Gate played the same, and that includes Dragon Age.  Sure, there were some changes, but not enough to differentiate it from the same tired and recycled formula that had been done to death.  Also, such "fans" can't even recognize how DA2 is just as similar.  The main difference is that the player character is now voice acted and you don't have as many "fluff" lines that hide the fact that only three choices lead to a different outcome.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 mars 2011 - 11:39 .