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[Alexus_VG]

Teclo wrote...

Not very pleased in the art style. Monsters all seem less Dragon Age-ish, and more like a generic modern fantasy game, including Flemeth.

Holy ****, I'm facepalming like Bruce Lee here. Flemeth was a generic old lady in DA:O. You could have placed her in the slums of Denerim and she'd have blended in as an NPC - now that's generic. How can you claim that an ordinary, unremarkable old lady is "Dragon Age-ish" but a distinctly designed character with a memorable and specific appearance is generic? DA:O was insanely generic "standard fantasy setting" - either that or ripping of the LotR movies with its designs and even camera angles and set-ups used in cutscenes. Bioware have even stated that they were basically doing the LotR style but the movies did it better so they wanted to carve out their own style with DA2 - which they very much have, a lot more than DA:O anyway.

I swear to god, it's like my internet is linked to some bizarro world where DA2 came out before DA:O and people have everything backwards - you guys are in for a treat in 12 years when Planescape Torment comes out.

Ok I have to say I dont really like the way the Darkspawn look in the demo for sure especially the Ogres. By far prefer the style in the original there. Flameth is another matter. I kinda like that she looked somewhat more interesting but perhaps a bit much. I think the whole point of Flameth in the first game was that she did look very generic you were not suppose to know she has some uber powers in her sleeve at a glance

[Graunt]

Teclo wrote...
I swear to god, it's like my internet is linked to some bizarro world where DA2 came out before DA:O and people have everything backwards - you guys are in for a treat in 12 years when Planescape Torment comes out.

LOL

Ok I have to say I dont really like the way the Darkspawn look in the demo for sure especially the Ogres.

Now that is something I can get behind.  I think the Darkspawn look like cartoon clowns straight out of WOW.  The Ogre didn't bother me as much, but it didn't look anywhere near as good as the Origins version.

Modifié par Graunt, 02 mars 2011 - 12:52 .

[Matroska]

I have to admit, I didn't notice it when I played, but I have since seen a screenshot comparison of the Origins ogre vs the DA2 ogre, and the latter did indeed look like something from a PSP game. However, it was a pretty rigged comparison since the Origins screenshot was clearly taken from a game on high settings whereas, as far as I know, the DA2 demo was fixed to medium settings. I'll have to have a closer look at the enemies when I replay it with my friend later today. I was too busy looking at my Hawke dancing around and shooting fireballs to look at the enemies too much.

[Graunt]

anyoldname wrote...
Stuff

Again, the gameplay was not changed.  Just because YOU end up going through the motions differently due to some perceived handicap doesn't mean the gameplay changed, only your interpretation of the events.  It's about like saying because the contrast on your monitor is all the way down, impeding your ability to see much of anything that the gameplay has changed.  

Having a bird's eye view of everything around you vs having to manually pan the camera around to see the same units is not a matter of gameplay.  Nothing has prevented you from seeing the same units, you simply cannot see them at the same time and have to put more effort in with the mouse.  Having even limited spatial awareness prevents this from being an actual problem compared to simply being a preferential annoyance.

[wakkkkkkkkkkka]

[quote]Graunt wrote...



[/quote]

With how awful threat seems to be (yet again), close -- to a tank -- is exactly where you want to be.  It's a lot safer to simply stand next to Aveline, burn all of your cooldowns and then have her taunt than it is trying to hit groups at range.  This is especially true if you're standing off near the side as they are running in.  Often they will stop at your location.

Of course this isn't going to work on Nightmare, but then neither will most of the "typical" Mage strategies.  It will be reduced to mostly using single target, Chain Lightning and a heavy investment in the Spirit Healer tree.

[/quote]
agreed

[Oerwein]

Graunt wrote...

anyoldname wrote...
Stuff

Again, the gameplay was not changed.  Just because YOU end up going through the motions differently due to some perceived handicap doesn't mean the gameplay changed, only your interpretation of the events.  It's about like saying because the contrast on your monitor is all the way down, impeding your ability to see much of anything that the gameplay has changed.  

Having a bird's eye view of everything around you vs having to manually pan the camera around to see the same units is not a matter of gameplay.  Nothing has prevented you from seeing the same units, you simply cannot see them at the same time and have to put more effort in with the mouse.  Having even limited spatial awareness prevents this from being an actual problem compared to simply being a preferential annoyance.

reading dozens of your statements i just have to say that you are picking on every word without trying to understand what the people want to say - HOW those people, including me, played DA:O is not possible with DA2 - there might be the same gameplay but the way how it is played has changed because this was relying on game speed, tactical few and so on (playing 4 members in a first person view or playing like the master of a chess board feels different even if you have the same options). So gameplay, when using the correct definition, may not have changed, but combat just feels totally different - so the experience of combat changed which most here refer to gameplay

edit: an experience/feeling is totally subjective - the whole discussion is pointless, there is no right or wrong if you just try to understand what people try to say instead of discussing every single word

Modifié par Oerwein, 02 mars 2011 - 01:18 .

[Matroska]

As a general point, I must say that a lot of the PC gamers complaints seem oddly vehement when you consider that there'll be tons of mods to customise things like view and friendly fire.

[wakkkkkkkkkkka]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

oh dear lord I'm seeing some intellectual comments on why people dislike the demo, which is good and I like that, but then I see a string of comments that have nothing to add and are just "it's dumbed down for ADD people. My rogue teleports, wtf is with that, etc..."

it's not dumbed down. I'm tired of saying that and so is everyone else. Your rogue isn't teleporting. If you looked at the screen you'd see he throws a smoke bomb so he can move safely into position to backstab. Teleporting is a whole different thing, which requires a very in depth scientific discussion. Which I'm not in the mood to do.

I'm just gonna stay away from this thread. The stupid is rubbing off on me more than the intellectual is.

the game is less complex...therefore dumbed down...get the heck over it 

[wakkkkkkkkkkka]

Graunt wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...
The lack of isometric view does affect gameplay, it alters what you can do, it's a change to gameplay.

A) No it doesn't and it's a personal annoyance not having a wider view.  You can still "see" the same enemies you could always see by manipulating the camera.  Terrain has more to do with what you can and cannot do than view.  The gameplay is not affected in any way by the change of the camera.

i have to agree with jazz...it totally changes the gameplay...you have to sit there and hit the stupid thumbstick to move the camera around cause it wont do it itself

[Joy Divison]

Teclo wrote...

As a general point, I must say that a lot of the PC gamers complaints seem oddly vehement when you consider that there'll be tons of mods to customise things like view and friendly fire.

Perhaps I should pay the modders the $60 to deliver the quality game rather than Bioware?

[solkahn]

Console-PS3

Vast improvements across the board, in what I'm seeing as true Bioware fashion, their sequels will surpass their predecessors.
In particular I noticed a lot of changes similar to the differences between Mass Effect 1 and 2. Abilities and depth of play remained intact but were streamlined and made more accessible and entertaining. Improvements to graphics are expected, but the subtle tweaks in dialog and animations really add to the presentation and smoothness.
Combat felt incredible, no longer does my mage feel like an outsider looking in but a real part of the battle, able to stand in the thick of it throw pain in every direction. Likewise the warrior hit like a freight train and the rogue moved like a ninja. Extraordinary.

And now a moment for my inner fanboy: Woo00OOooo!! Friggin' Dragon Age 2 ftw!!!11!(one)!

[Tommy6860]

Alexus_VG wrote...

Teclo wrote...

Not very pleased in the art style. Monsters all seem less Dragon Age-ish, and more like a generic modern fantasy game, including Flemeth.

Holy ****, I'm facepalming like Bruce Lee here. Flemeth was a generic old lady in DA:O. You could have placed her in the slums of Denerim and she'd have blended in as an NPC - now that's generic. How can you claim that an ordinary, unremarkable old lady is "Dragon Age-ish" but a distinctly designed character with a memorable and specific appearance is generic? DA:O was insanely generic "standard fantasy setting" - either that or ripping of the LotR movies with its designs and even camera angles and set-ups used in cutscenes. Bioware have even stated that they were basically doing the LotR style but the movies did it better so they wanted to carve out their own style with DA2 - which they very much have, a lot more than DA:O anyway.

I swear to god, it's like my internet is linked to some bizarro world where DA2 came out before DA:O and people have everything backwards - you guys are in for a treat in 12 years when Planescape Torment comes out.

Ok I have to say I dont really like the way the Darkspawn look in the demo for sure especially the Ogres. By far prefer the style in the original there. Flameth is another matter. I kinda like that she looked somewhat more interesting but perhaps a bit much. I think the whole point of Flameth in the first game was that she did look very generic you were not suppose to know she has some uber powers in her sleeve at a glance

Alexus, I have read quite a few of your posts over the past few pages. I agree with you about 95% of what you said so far. I love DA:O, it is hands down the best *overall* RPG I have ever played. Rich characters, awesome conversation system, great side conversation between the allies; humorous, loving and tearful, all in one. Great story, awesome gameplay, tactics and battles. I can't say enough about it.

I agree with the DA2 demo using the ME2 dialogue system is a failure, I agree that the darkspawn looking bad, as they all look the same, nearly no variation, I wasn't pleased with the Rikku/Bayonetta/Raiden, etc ninja kills either by the rogue (definitely not Origins there) and I hope the mage does something more than just tap, tap, tap, spin my staff, as the only moves in battles.. The conversations are wooden, uninspiring and I couldn't believe the lack of emotion when one of Hawkes siblings was killed as also the lack of facial expressions (so well done in Origins) being totally missing. It was like watching the characters from "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" after they had been born from the pod.

Firstly, I will give this game a chance. I have had a brief discussion with the previous team leader who is longer with Bioware, leaving over differences during the development of DA2; that scared me. But after having read many posts from the other devs, and without them giving away too much, they all but reassured that the story, the conversation, character developments are rich and deep. It will be up to myself to prove them liars, or genius in this game. As of now, I don't see it. But please keep in mind, it is a demo, but it poorly displayed what you and I think as being anything Dragon Age.

As far as your ME2 dislikes, I totally disagree. Fine, if you think that conversation system didn't work, that's cool. For me, it worked fine as it is for Mass Effect, not for Dragon Age. Mass Effect 2 wasn't about real character interaction as was DA:O; it was the character interaction building the story, of which I think Mass Effect (the first game) is the best story ever in a game (note I said story, where I said DA:O was the best "overall"). ME2 wasn't that much about story, but if you listened to all of the dialogue and have an extensive save to carry over, it got pretty dep and I can point out tons to stress it. There's was little difference between the conversation system in Mass Effect and ME2 to be honest. 

In this same breath, I'll admit, that I like ME much better than ME2, because it was more about the story (which is the most important thing to me in an RPG as well as character bulding and character interactions) than the combat. But ME had a big shooter/action element to it. ME2 just made it more combat, and less story, but it worked OK for me, I wasn't disappointed. I liked how ME2 revamped the overly-redundant inventory system that was in ME. But, I wished they had kept the talents the same and not taken so much away from that. Finally, back to DA2. If it is a disappoinment, I think I will be walking away from Bioware, of which as a developer, has pleased me more than any other game maker and I will see how they had to bend to becoming nothing more than an extension of EA. I am truly hoping this game delivers.

[Ikmoney]

Teclo wrote...

Not very pleased in the art style. Monsters all seem less Dragon Age-ish, and more like a generic modern fantasy game, including Flemeth.

Holy ****, I'm facepalming like Bruce Lee here. Flemeth was a generic old lady in DA:O. You could have placed her in the slums of Denerim and she'd have blended in as an NPC - now that's generic. How can you claim that an ordinary, unremarkable old lady is "Dragon Age-ish" but a distinctly designed character with a memorable and specific appearance is generic? DA:O was insanely generic "standard fantasy setting" - either that or ripping of the LotR movies with its designs and even camera angles and set-ups used in cutscenes. Bioware have even stated that they were basically doing the LotR style but the movies did it better so they wanted to carve out their own style with DA2 - which they very much have, a lot more than DA:O anyway.

I swear to god, it's like my internet is linked to some bizarro world where DA2 came out before DA:O and people have everything backwards - you guys are in for a treat in 12 years when Planescape Torment comes out.

Here's the thing, my opinion... is my opinion. One which I am not alone in, btw. I understand that you and *many* other may not agree, and that's fine, but there it is.

Realize that *all* opinions (including yours) are subjective. My critique has no bearing whatsoever on you, and the tongue-lashing was, in no way, called for. I can see your point of view, but I find it odd that you think you can argue me out of mine.

Lastly, (done with this thread, as it was a feeback request, not an debate perspecive arena) I don't consider what I saw of the DA2 demo a bad game in it's own right. It just feels (<---hint: opinion) like they've gone in a direction that's been done to death, whereas the first was its own kind of game, however much it borrowed from other mediums.

Modifié par Ikmoney, 02 mars 2011 - 02:28 .

[Alexus_VG]

Tommy6860 wrote...

As far as your ME2 dislikes, I totally disagree. Fine, if you think that conversation system didn't work, that's cool. For me, it worked fine as it is for Mass Effect, not for Dragon Age. Mass Effect 2 wasn't about real character interaction as was DA:O; it was the character interaction building the story, of which I think Mass Effect (the first game) is the best story ever in a game (note I said story, where I said DA:O was the best "overall"). ME2 wasn't that much about story, but if you listened to all of the dialogue and have an extensive save to carry over, it got pretty dep and I can point out tons to stress it. There's was little difference between the conversation system in Mass Effect and ME2 to be honest. 

In this same breath, I'll admit, that I like ME much better than ME2, because it was more about the story (which is the most important thing to me in an RPG as well as character bulding and character interactions) than the combat. But ME had a big shooter/action element to it. ME2 just made it more combat, and less story, but it worked OK for me, I wasn't disappointed. I liked how ME2 revamped the overly-redundant inventory system that was in ME. But, I wished they had kept the talents the same and not taken so much away from that. Finally, back to DA2. If it is a disappoinment, I think I will be walking away from Bioware, of which as a developer, has pleased me more than any other game maker and I will see how they had to bend to becoming nothing more than an extension of EA. I am truly hoping this game delivers.

Yes indeed those comments were not meant as a critic to ME I don't particularly like that series but that based on personal preferance which goes as far away from FPS as possible lol. Again I am not complaining about the way ME was made but that it seems like many elements from it are visible in the DA2 demo and that it something very negative imo.

[wakkkkkkkkkkka]

@Teclo a generic old lady being flemeth keeps her from standing out and therefore she can hide better..thats why she would do it and thats why she was like it in DaO

[Matroska]

Joy Divison wrote...

Teclo wrote...

As a general point, I must say that a lot of the PC gamers complaints seem oddly vehement when you consider that there'll be tons of mods to customise things like view and friendly fire.

Perhaps I should pay the modders the $60 to deliver the quality game rather than Bioware?

Yes, when the modders start making the full game and Bioware merely tweak things like a modified INI file, that would make sense.

wakkkkkkkkkkka wrote...

@Teclo a generic old lady being
flemeth keeps her from standing out and therefore she can hide
better..thats why she would do it and thats why she was like it in
DaO

Well there's a single fact with two implications that proves that isn't the case. She lived in the middle of nowhere, in the Korcari Wilds. The first implication of that is that she could have looked like a fifteen foot tall Lady Gaga and it wouldn't have mattered because no one would ever see her. The second implication is that if someone did see her, it would be pretty damn obvious that this old woman living in the middle of Korcari Wilds - a region known for its witches - isn't simply there because her pension can't cover an inner-city home.

Modifié par Teclo, 02 mars 2011 - 02:47 .

[Icy Magebane]

Well... since this thread is still going, I'm going to say that the hurlocks looked ridiculous. Every primate comparison I've heard has been spot-on, and I don't take them seriously at all... except those damned 2 archers who just kept nailing Mage-Hawke... but anyway... I don't like the darkspawn designs at all, but it's not a game breaker. Most of the demo was cool, considering it's just a taste of what lies ahead.

Edit:  It's not just the new look... there's something really wrong with the hurlock running animations.  Like they're hopping very quickly?  Or maybe they just ran too fast... it looked weird, whatever it was.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 02 mars 2011 - 02:51 .

[wakkkkkkkkkkka]

Alexus_VG wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

Xaltar81 wrote...

How does this effect DA2?
Simple, it has been made "console friendly" in an effort to make it more popular amongst the console crowd.

Whats wrong with this? They want more people to enjoy their games. Keep in mind all of this is coming from me, a PC gamer mostly.

What does that mean?
Even simpler, hello Mass Effect clone in a fantasy medievil setting. Basicly almost every element that made DA:O a good game has taken it up the rear so that the console version feels right....

And what were those elements specifically that were taken out to make the "console version feel right?"

I would be more than happy to adress both of those statments and try not to repeat my previous post too much.

One what's wrong with this? A hell of a lot if it means decreasing the overall enjoyment value of the game which brings me to the second comment. The dialog and story mechanics for a start have been tenderly raped in DA 2. Argue as you will but to me this is simply fact.

And to everyone else that seems to protest against those complaining without actually making a sensible argument well this is a feedback thread and we dont all like what's been done in this expansion. All are allowed their own oppinion so deal with it.

people are making sensible arguments 

[wakkkkkkkkkkka]

Teclo wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

Teclo wrote...

As a general point, I must say that a lot of the PC gamers complaints seem oddly vehement when you consider that there'll be tons of mods to customise things like view and friendly fire.

Perhaps I should pay the modders the $60 to deliver the quality game rather than Bioware?

Yes, when the modders start making the full game and Bioware merely tweak things like a modified INI file, that would make sense.

wakkkkkkkkkkka wrote...

@Teclo a generic old lady being
flemeth keeps her from standing out and therefore she can hide
better..thats why she would do it and thats why she was like it in
DaO

Well there's a single fact with two implications that proves that isn't the case. She lived in the middle of nowhere, in the Korcari Wilds. The first implication of that is that she could have looked like a fifteen foot tall Lady Gaga and it wouldn't have mattered because no one would ever see her. The second implication is that if someone did see her, it would be pretty damn obvious that this old woman living in the middle of Korcari Wilds - a region known for its witches - isn't simply there because her pension can't cover an inner-city home.

eh..its sorta a mix of both...seeing how she went to steal kids, so i guess its whatever really lol

[Xaltar81]

This thread is actually mostly a good read. Its clear that the community is behind bioware on this one. Here's hoping that they have come through for us with DA2 and that EA hasn't dropped the hammer of imposition down on them too hard. The demo looks bad in a lot of ways, kinda looks like ME - ME2, where one hand giveth and the other hand taketh away. Lets hope there is more giving than taking in the final product. ME was a far superior game to ME2, I strongly hope that is not the case here. here's hoping.

[shedevil3001]

i loved nearly everything in the demo, the combat was much better, the graphics were good, the vo wasnt bad either, the only thing i found a bit frustrating was the converstaion wheel and picking an option, trying to understand the choice i picked and what it was, maybe if it had a quick flash text saying humour or flirt etc it might be easier. everything else was awesome and made me want to play da2 really badly :}

[Alexus_VG]

Teclo wrote...

wakkkkkkkkkkka wrote...

@Teclo a generic old lady being
flemeth keeps her from standing out and therefore she can hide
better..thats why she would do it and thats why she was like it in
DaO

Well there's a single fact with two implications that proves that isn't the case. She lived in the middle of nowhere, in the Korcari Wilds. The first implication of that is that she could have looked like a fifteen foot tall Lady Gaga and it wouldn't have mattered because no one would ever see her. The second implication is that if someone did see her, it would be pretty damn obvious that this old woman living in the middle of Korcari Wilds - a region known for its witches - isn't simply there because her pension can't cover an inner-city home.

^^ It could be argued however that she appeared ordinary in DA:O because she new your character was there and didnt want to reveal her visage but tbh I hardly think that's worth arguing about. Tho I kinda had a better vibe for the ordinary looking Flemeth I dont mind the kinky version Atleast the voice actress is the same which atleast is a relief because all the rest of the voice acting in the demo was quite substandard especially that of the protagonist.

[shellys639]

i too loved the demo.i really really hope they toned down the maker crap.after dao i was so sick of the maker this and that,then on the demo right after whoever dies its right back to the maker.even in mass effect someone mentioned the maker.i am so over it.

[AlmondBrown]

It has been Consolized. The reasons are more than obvious. You can't PC'ize a Console game. The demo shows well but does not really grab me. I always thought that was what a Demo should do. I am a bit irked it has actually put me on the Fence. I am in line for a new game and the timing is right but... but... see there it is. DA:O and all it's stuff was great. I probably spent more money on DLC, just because it was DA:O based stuff, than money well spent. Sadly, I will probably wait on DA:2 to see what transpires and if it what I suspect it is, made for Consoles and ported to PC, then all the extra STUFF will probably not happen and as such my support will have waned and when the next version arrives, and is once again even further Consolized, that will be the end and it will be a truly sad day.

[Silverwolf44]

PC - I enjoyed the changes, fenzied fighting, the background scenes seem a little underdone compared to the facial scenes.The voice overs are a little out of sink but your Flemeth I love the actresses voice (Mulgrew?). the character details are good (got lost in the eyes) nice job on Isabella. it looked a lot like Final Fantasy. Problem with the rush into a character with no background except for what you find out in cutscenes (don't like that at all) it breaks apart the story.It seems a bit less personal than DAO.I think it will be either loved or hated no middle ground.I would rather watch it like a movie not play it like a video game. good effort though!