8659 réponses à ce sujet

[Graunt]

WaCk0 wrote...

I dunno if someone posted this... Dragon Age 2 PC Gamer review (94 / 100)
http://n4g.com/news/...g-of-the-decade

I've posted it a few times now, but it needs it's own thread.  Either people are simply not reading it, or they just don't know about it.

I have to admit i couldn't help but chuckle at all of  the mage's
fancy and completely unnecesary spinning and twirling combat animations

They are goofy, but they are simply there to keep you entertained while the *same* Origins combat is being processed.  Instead of shoot (38 dmg), ... shoot (38 dmg) ... shoot (38 dmg) ... congrats you killed something, it's shoot (9 dmg) x 12, next.

Modifié par Graunt, 04 mars 2011 - 05:28 .

[radicalRetroid]

I hated it
The art direction is terrible, there is no consistency between character design and environment: the environment is bland and uninteresting while the character's outward appearance doesn't seem to match the universe in which they're placed (shiny and tight leather outfits in a medieval setting?). The wilderness surrounding Lothering is a reminder of mass effect's little planets and their lack of detail. At least Dragon Age 1 had forest and grass, environmental touches that broke up the constant brown. Against this blank background the characters stick out like a pimple on a pair of delicious ******. The armour doesn't seem to represent factions or a unique touch (something that is important when you're building a universe). The character's personalities are similar to those of a soap opera: shallow. The dialogue comes across as scripted.
There is nothing here that speaks of originality, just a bunch of generic fantasy cliches being lumped into one game, with the promise of ****** and action-packed gameplay disguising a shallow game. I hope you enjoy the milk from the cashcow

Modifié par radicalRetroid, 04 mars 2011 - 05:37 .

[Rann]

FearMonkey wrote...

I played the demo on PC.

The main impression I got from it was that it was way too easy. As a rogue I felt I could (if I had let everybody else in my party die) solo the 2nd Ogre by spamming Evade and Backstab. <_<

Yeah, I noticed that too.  First time ever that I felt a rogue was more competent in melee than a warrior.  As a warrior, I had one or two people die against the ogre or Hayden.  WIth the rogue, it was almost too easy on both.

In fact it was easy despite the fact that the camera was not allowed to pull back into DA:O's full isometric camera mode. I can only imagine the game would be even easier were I allowed to do that. <_<

True -- for figuring out area spells, nothing can replace an overhead camera -- jumping the camera around is no substitute.

Question for Mike Laidlaw: So, I watched the live demo of you playing the game. Was the fight with Hayder in the build you were playing harder than the one that was in the demo build? Because that fight was pretty easy for me and you had to stop talking so you could focus on tactics. I had to do no such thing. I am not bragging. There are parts of Dragon Age: Origins that had me ripping my hair out in frustration on normal mode. I am saying Normal Mode in this game/demo is WAY TOO EASY!

Like I say, it indeed seemed trivial with a rogue nailing backstab and evade.  I had a tougher time with warrior, oddly enough.

[Graunt]

Rann wrote...
Yeah, I noticed that too.  First time ever that I felt a rogue was more competent in melee than a warrior.  As a warrior, I had one or two people die against the ogre or Hayden.  WIth the rogue, it was almost too easy on both.

Like I say, it indeed seemed trivial with a rogue nailing backstab and evade.  I had a tougher time with warrior, oddly enough.

Evade doesnt actually help you deal damage, it just helps to drop threat and to give breathing room. Your allies dying has nothing to do with the Rogue and is more about your management.  If your Warrior was taking too much damage on the Ogre, try putting them at max range behind it next time.  As for why people were dying on the last fight, they shouldn't have been.  All you needed to do was focus fire when all area of effect abilities are on cooldown, and Isabella could tank Hayden while you took out everyone else first.

Modifié par Graunt, 04 mars 2011 - 05:51 .

[Notker_Biloba]

Dlokir wrote...

Notker_Biloba wrote...
...

There seems to be a problem with the "hold position" v. "move freely" modes. Or maybe there was a setting I didn't see? In DA:O the "hold position" meant "don't do anything unless I specifically tell you",
which does not seem to be the case in DA2. In DA:O I almost never allowed my minions to roam freely or think for themselves, because they would use their Talents unintelligently. I would always toggle on the "hold position" mode and either issue individual commands or select the entire party to attack an individual baddie. Sometimes I would toggle
to "move freely" in times of peace, usually to allow them to follow me from point A to point B, because if I left them at point A, the system seemed to bog down as I put more and more distance between myself and them.

I'm not catching the point of the bold text.  Are you saying that DA:O doesn't work like I descibed?  Because it does, on the PC anyway.  The point of my question was to find out if there was a way to make it work that way in DA2, or if I'm hosed into switching in to "move freely" mode, which blows.

In DAO hold position means only don't move. And if you disable entirely the tactics, only then they won't do anything at all.

Negative.  In DA:O, on the PC, the "H" key toggles between "Hold Position" and "Move Freely".  When I toggle into "Hold Position" mode, which I almost always do because minion AI r sux, they will do only what I tell them to.  If I select all and right-click an enemy, everyone attacks that enemy, whether in ranged or melee mode.  This is not up for debate.  I've been playing religiously for a year or more.  That's how it is.  That's how I like it.

Dlokir wrote...
In DA2 demo use "don't move" AND disable tatics for each member and you get the same result I just tested, they don't move and are passive. Well I didn't only disabled tactics for each but also for each used the behavior "passive" at top of tactics screen.

EDIT: This only work in the normal fights of DA2, the first fights that are fake legend fights don't allow this. But once the real fights start it is working.

With high hopes, I tried your "passive" behavior on Carver.  During the Escape from Lothering, we immediately ran into some spawn.  I selected my main character, as I usually do, and then I selected the entire party (SheHawke, Bethany, and Carver; Mama Hawke not much for combat, I guess).  After right-clicking on the nearest hurlock, SheHawke and Bethany began their attack, while Carver just sat there.  Well, he kinda just posed there in a sort of half crouch, sword at the ready.  Useless.

That's what I'm talking about.  I don't want my minions just sitting there, nor do I want them running around doing whatever the hell it is they think is best, as they would in "Move Freely" mode.  AI might whoop my ass at Jeopardy and chess, but it is years, maybe decades, away from out-strategizing me in free-form combat.  I'm not about to let my minions run around, "doing their own thing".  And I'm not buying DA2 until I get my question answered.  I will play all six origins agains, maybe as male characters this time, or maybe just taking a totally different attitude this time on all my dialogue choices.  And I will wait until ME3 comes out.

Modifié par Notker_Biloba, 04 mars 2011 - 05:53 .

[Inuksuit2]

I was fascinated by DA:O and bought all of the DLCs.

Yet when I played the demo of DA2, (XBox 360) i apparently did not master the learning curve (as many others did) in terms of gameplay. I received much good advice in the forums on how to beat the Ogre, but I was frustrated by the mechanics nonetheless.

I felt more at home, instantly, with DA:O (as I did with ME2 as well). But I never really meshed with the new game.

Reluctantly, i cancelled my pre-order of the Signature edition -- and will sit this one out.

I generally consider myself to be someone who loves Bioware games.
But this time, i didn't feel the enchantment and failed to master the gameplay.

[Alexus_VG]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Alexus_VG wrote...


The dialog changes thought they are one of my bigest issues with the sequel are not the only viable comparison to ME. The overall feel of the story progression is a lot more rushed and imperosnal. Taking the role of a predetermined individual with a lot of the backstory already fact is also a direct link to ME. The approach to the story seems too cinematic for a start, much like it was in ME. I know a lot of people like this but after all that's why there are two separate franchises. The artstyle also resembles the aformentioned series which the exeption of(thankfully) the ME body models which I personaly found revolting.

Again, I agree with your stance on DA2, but lets put some of these comparisons to rest if you're going to keep going this way (and no I am not being personal about this, just pointing this out). Yes, the dialogue system is like ME's, and the art directionand color palette only are similar to ME and I don't like that at all. But,outside of that, is where this stops. I also did not like that it followed ME's style in those areas, it takes away the originality that was Origins. Cinematics: DA:O is as, if not more cinematic than ME, but I liked it, it added to the feeling to the greatness of story. ME did the same thing with the story, and it added its story. If you didn't like ME's character movements/models, well DA:O models are the same. if you don't believe, watch videos of the running or walking gaits between the two, and they are exactly the same, just under different scales. I don't like how they move in DA2 though, it is totally different from both ME and Origins with the exaggerated shoulder movements looking like it was dislocated.

Much as I can get over most of my discomfort with the new combat changes, if the demo is any indication I don't think Im going to be happy with the new direction of the RP element as a whole. I do believe I noticed a few others commenting on the imersion failure as well so Im not alone in that complaint. I know this is just a demo and can't hold the same appeal as the overall game but none the less it is very lacking.

Agreed, but if you are already resigned to not getting DA2 because of the demo experience, then you've already made any more complaints a moot point. Again, I agree with you on most things and I was about to not get it; the demo was just a bad example of what seems to be coming in the end. But, after reading some of the dev posts, I will give it a chance, and let them keep me or lose me as a Bioware fan.

Keep in mind mate and Im not trying to start an argument here that thought you are within you right to feel fed up with some of the more classical elements of RPGs some of us are just as much in our right to like them. And as DA:O was more along those lines we are obviously disappointed that the sequel isn't.

Being realistic in your stance towards calassical RPGs made need a little refreshing, if you really think about it. I remember (and I am paraphrasing here, not verbatim) you said to me that any RPGs with an FPS element is not for you and you stay as far away from them, and that's is fine. But, you cannot lay hint that RPGs should only be magic/swords and, etc to be a RPG (alluding to your "classical" RPG thinking). Considering you stated your dislike for the ME series for those reasons, I can take it that you didn't bother playing at all, and if you did, not comprehensively.

IMO, ME had a much richer and deeper storyline that Origins, it is just that Origins overall feel with its story, characters and game progression was awesome for the lore it is. ME did the same thing and the characters were rich, deep and the story was just incredible, for what it is. But its flavor was futuristic and RPGs don't have to fit a timeline from centuries past, to a far off adavnced tech society of a millenium from now. RPGs only have to do what the genre is supposed to do, drive deep storylines, character developments and interactions with great gameplay, not all resigned being to one type of enemy battle, but that to the basis of the story and timelines..

If they kept going the way with your "classical" preferences (which by the way I lvoe very much), the games would stop selling and all but kill the genre. I am open to RPGss being RPGs no matter the setting, as long as they are RPGs, which is my favorite genre to play. Now I do feel that taking an RPG, in any stroyline and making near complete action, no longer denotes anything being an RPG. But, since we only tasted the demo, we won't know until March 8, what genre, or hybrid tag can really be applied to to DA2, outside of going by this demo.

A yes indeed I was fairly tired when I wrote all that so perhaps we are going in cirles so to speak. Although it was mostly refering to what Graunt was saying in his post and not in general and about a certain discussion we had before about taking out the "fluff" from RPGs.

As to my comment about the cinematics it was not reguarding the number of them but the way they are incorporated and the way they seem to advance the story. Also a lot of the dialog seem to be more along the lines of you selecting a phrase on the wheel and then watching a cinematic of what the characters are talking about. It didn't make you feel as if you are an active part of the dialog but more like you are watching a slightly interactive movie. That is the reason I compared it to ME series in that reguard because I was left with a similar semsation when going through the story.

I don't want to get into discussing my views on the ME series as a whole because much as it may be an interesting conversation to have this thread is on another topic.

[Xaltar81]

Lorfean wrote...

I've been reading through the last 20 or so pages of this thread and did not see the statements in this post replied to/corrected by anyone. So, since these seem to be issues that a lot of people worry about (and might be misinformed about), here goes:

Xaltar81 wrote...

Seems to me you've made up your mind already and can't be swayed. That's fine, but you should really check your facts before voicing your opinion, and don't make statements based on what you think the game might be like out to be facts. It's misleading and unfair to people who might still be on the fence about this game.

Thanks for taking the time to reply in detail to my post, however, my comments were adressed within the thread. As you no doubt can see if you continue to read on, this debate came to a resolution.

As to my comments about lacking content they were in reguards to the demo, not the final game. As a demo this is more of an action hook than it is good representation of what we can expect from the final product. My comments were based purely on the demo seeing as this is a feedback thread to that end. After playing the demo alone, those were the thoughts I had on the final game. I did not read reviews or dev posts deliberately so that my view of the demo could be clear and unclouded. You see, the point is, a lot of people will play the demo and write off the game as bad. The lack of being able to customize the character in the demo, the very weak dialogue, the poor voice acting and so on and so forth paint a bad picture of the game. As a demo for a highly anticipated title I feel Bioware did a poor job of showcasing thier product.

But as I said in another post, I will hold of judgement on the final product untill I can actually play it, besides, this thread would not be the place for such comments and speculation anyway.

[Arppis]

Played the Xbox360 version:
I liked the demo a lot. I like the new combat system, the icons at the chat window really help by showing in what kind of emotion Hawke says things and the visual style + armors look really nice and detailed. Ofcourse the backgrounds are bit ugly, but I am not the type who REALLY cares about visual appearance of the games.

I noticed that the female character kind of "slides" as she runs and there was a bug that prevented me from attacking with normal swings till I switched to another character and back. I was dissapointed to see that player can't change his appearance at all in the demo. To be frank, as a customization junkie I would have loved to have that option so I would have something to tinker with when I wait for the game.

Overall I really liked the new class-ideas:
Rogue can finaly control his enviroment and have some actual activated dodge mechanics. The Backstab is really nice, as it prevents me from running around the enemies like in some "merry-go-around". Rogue didn't feel like light-armored warrior this time, which is a good thing.

Mage is the one class I didn't play that much and it seems pretty basic, while it has some really nice AOE attacks, it feels bit boring to play one. Especialy when I finished the ogre and his few minions by running away from them and shooting normal attacks at them! But, I have never been much of a fan of magic.

Warrior class feels awesome. I didn't really try the sword and shield, as Aveline (that is the name of the redhead, right? I'm terrible at remembering names) already does the tanking pretty well. So I used the two handers as I always do. I was positively surprised by the fact that two handers are FINALY used as they should: they hit all the enemies in front of you in a cone! That's brilliant and I wish that would be the case in Dragon Age Origins. It feels really stupid in most RPG games how the big weapon doesn't hit the enemies around the character too. Anyhows, what I also found really cool about warrior was the fact that they could take a lot of hits and do a lot of damage. That reason made him a GREAT support character. I could go and keep enemies off my rogues and mages when they were in trouble no problem and just cruise around the battlefield, while the other warrior tanks most of the enemies.

Well, that's about it. I like the demo, but I wish there was a bit more of choice of customization.

Modifié par Arppis, 04 mars 2011 - 07:12 .

[Biotic Budah]

 I believe Hitler summed it up best.

[Valmarn]

Is it just me, or does Aveline look a tad butch?

Seriously, between drag queen Aveline, and smokin' hot Bethany, the party is starting to look like a skit from the SNL episode hosted by Elle MacPherson:

Norm MacDonald: Stan Hooper
Elle MacPherson: Monique Hooper
Cheri Oteri: Gwendolyn Hooper

In the skit, Stan just awoke from a 5-year coma, and is suffering from amnesia. The doctor informs him that his wife has arrived to see him. Shortly thereafter, his sister, Monique, comes and hugs him. Confused, Norm's character thinks that she's his wife. His actual wife, Gwendolyn (rather homely-looking), comes in to comfort him. To shorten it, for the entire skit Norm's character is in total disbelief that Monique is his sister, and Gwendolyn is his wife.

http://snltranscript...95nhooper.phtml

Hopefully, EA will allow BioWare to release a toolset...

[Dlokir]

Notker_Biloba wrote...
Negative.  In DA:O, on the PC, the "H" key toggles between "Hold Position" and "Move Freely".  When I toggle into "Hold Position" mode, which I almost always do because minion AI r sux, they will do only what I tell them to....

Notker_Biloba wrote...
That's what I'm talking about.  I don't want my minions just sitting there, nor do I want them running around doing whatever the hell it is they think is best, as they would in "Move Freely" mode.

That's contradictory, I highlighted in bold, what makes this clearly contradictory for me. I wonder what isn't working for you exactely.

About selecting all the group and make it attack all the same oponent, I don't understand what's the problem, you can do it to in DAO2 demo isn't it?

[Arppis]

Valmarn wrote...

Is it just me, or does Aveline look a tad butch?

Seriously, between drag queen Aveline, and smokin' hot Bethany, the party is starting to look like a skit from the SNL episode hosted by Elle MacPherson:

Norm MacDonald: Stan Hooper
Elle MacPherson: Monique Hooper
Cheri Oteri: Gwendolyn Hooper

In the skit, Stan just awoke from a 5-year coma, and is suffering from amnesia. The doctor informs him that his wife has arrived to see him. Shortly thereafter, his sister, Monique, comes and hugs him. Confused, Norm's character thinks that she's his wife. His actual wife, Gwendolyn (rather homely-looking), comes in to comfort him. To shorten it, for the entire skit Norm's character is in total disbelief that Monique is his sister, and Gwendolyn is his wife.

http://snltranscript...95nhooper.phtml

Hopefully, EA will allow BioWare to release a toolset...

No, she doesn't for me.

Aveline looks like regular woman to me. She doesn't even act that butch there, imo even female Sheppard is more butch in way that she behaves than she is.

[Notker_Biloba]

Dlokir wrote...

Notker_Biloba wrote...
Negative.  In DA:O, on the PC, the "H" key toggles between "Hold Position" and "Move Freely".  When I toggle into "Hold Position" mode, which I almost always do because minion AI r sux, they will do only what I tell them to....

Notker_Biloba wrote...
That's what I'm talking about.  I don't want my minions just sitting there, nor do I want them running around doing whatever the hell it is they think is best, as they would in "Move Freely" mode.

That's contradictory, I highlighted in bold, what makes this clearly contradictory for me. I wonder what isn't working for you exactely.

About selecting all the group and make it attack all the same oponent, I don't understand what's the problem, you can do it to in DAO2 demo isn't it?

Have you ever played DA:O on the PC?  Try exactly what I did, and watch the results.  Now try it on the DA2 demo.  Different results.

"Hold Position" in DA:O does not mean "hold your current postion".  It only means "don't use your AI to determine your actions".  In DA2, it actually does seem to make minions stay in one place.  That is my complaint.

[Arppis]

I'm just glad they got rid of those bland looking armors from the first game. It's nice to see there is more decorations and variation on them.

[Waltomatic]

Rann wrote...

In fact it was easy despite the fact that the camera was not allowed to pull back into DA:O's full isometric camera mode. I can only imagine the game would be even easier were I allowed to do that. <_<

True -- for figuring out area spells, nothing can replace an overhead camera -- jumping the camera around is no substitute.

The lack of overhead view almost makes me happy that FF is going to be optional. I'll want to get the hang of the AoE casting before subjecting my party to my poorly aimed fireball. Trying to hit a long range target that is standing behind your allies or other mobs can be difficult.

The full overhead would be nice, but it was also flawed in DA:O. The overhead view was constrictive in walled passageways and narrow dungeons. Sometimes, I had to maneuver my camera into an open area and turn so that the area I wished to view was behind the camera. Then, was I able to push myself to where I needed to scope out the target. The lack of overhead won't be a deal breaker for me.

Unrelated gripe: Hurlocks look silly. The DA:O Darkspawn were scary enough in the Wilds when they could still kill me. They became scary again on my first Nightmare play-through. The magic zombies with putrid flesh and nasty, big, pointy teeth were good villains. The new skeletal apes? Not quite as effective. My first thoughts playing the demo were: "That's a weird looking enemy. That's a Hurlock?! That doesn't look like a Hurlock. Did that Hurlock just explode? That sure looks like a lot of ugly, exploding Hurlocks."

I do, however, like the new Emissary. The Nosferatu-Elf thing looks like something that is intent on killing you. Too bad it was a pushover.

Modifié par Waltomatic, 04 mars 2011 - 08:46 .

[Graunt]

Notker_Biloba wrote...
Negative.  In DA:O, on the PC, the "H" key toggles between "Hold Position" and "Move Freely".  When I toggle into "Hold Position" mode, which I almost always do because minion AI r sux, they will do only what I tell them to.  If I select all and right-click an enemy, everyone attacks that enemy, whether in ranged or melee mode.  This is not up for debate.  I've been playing religiously for a year or more.  That's how it is.  That's how I like it.

It's not nice to make up stories and claim they are a fact.  I just loaded the game up again because I know my memory is better than that.  I had everyone set to hold position and they still auto cast every buff their tactic was set to cast.  I also took my main character to a group of enemies and had them chase him.  As soon as they were in range of my allies, my allies would start using ranged attacks.  Melee units will not attack when something is not on top of them, but anyone with a ranged ability or weapon will use it, and all classes will use their buffs and other tactic slots that don't care about range.

Hold position does absolutely nothing but what it states.  You are rooted to the ground, but you still use every available ability when able.

"Hold Position" in DA:O does not mean "hold your current postion".

Yes it does.

It only means "don't use your AI to determine your actions".

No it doesn't.

In DA2, it
actually does seem to make minions stay in one place.  That is my complaint.

It does the same thing, but more in the demo due to the AI being horribly bugged.  Your allies will simply stop moving, perform no action and usually still not do anything even after you set it to move freely until you select them all and point to the ground or an enemy.

Modifié par Graunt, 04 mars 2011 - 08:37 .

[Valmarn]

Arppis wrote...

Valmarn wrote...

Is it just me, or does Aveline look a tad butch?

Seriously, between drag queen Aveline, and smokin' hot Bethany, the party is starting to look like a skit from the SNL episode hosted by Elle MacPherson:

Norm MacDonald: Stan Hooper
Elle MacPherson: Monique Hooper
Cheri Oteri: Gwendolyn Hooper

In the skit, Stan just awoke from a 5-year coma, and is suffering from amnesia. The doctor informs him that his wife has arrived to see him. Shortly thereafter, his sister, Monique, comes and hugs him. Confused, Norm's character thinks that she's his wife. His actual wife, Gwendolyn (rather homely-looking), comes in to comfort him. To shorten it, for the entire skit Norm's character is in total disbelief that Monique is his sister, and Gwendolyn is his wife.

http://snltranscript...95nhooper.phtml

Hopefully, EA will allow BioWare to release a toolset...

No, she doesn't for me.

Aveline looks like regular woman to me. She doesn't even act that butch there, imo even female Sheppard is more butch in way that she behaves than she is.

That's why I said "look a tad butch," not "act a tad butch."

[Alexus_VG]

Arppis wrote...

Valmarn wrote...

Is it just me, or does Aveline look a tad butch?

Seriously, between drag queen Aveline, and smokin' hot Bethany, the party is starting to look like a skit from the SNL episode hosted by Elle MacPherson:

Norm MacDonald: Stan Hooper
Elle MacPherson: Monique Hooper
Cheri Oteri: Gwendolyn Hooper

In the skit, Stan just awoke from a 5-year coma, and is suffering from amnesia. The doctor informs him that his wife has arrived to see him. Shortly thereafter, his sister, Monique, comes and hugs him. Confused, Norm's character thinks that she's his wife. His actual wife, Gwendolyn (rather homely-looking), comes in to comfort him. To shorten it, for the entire skit Norm's character is in total disbelief that Monique is his sister, and Gwendolyn is his wife.

http://snltranscript...95nhooper.phtml

Hopefully, EA will allow BioWare to release a toolset...

No, she doesn't for me.

Aveline looks like regular woman to me. She doesn't even act that butch there, imo even female Sheppard is more butch in way that she behaves than she is.

They both look and act butch if you ask me but it's hardly something I recon worth complaining about imo, seeing as Sheperd doesn't apply here and I can live with the occasional butch NPC ^^

[Arppis]

Valmarn wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Valmarn wrote...

Is it just me, or does Aveline look a tad butch?

Seriously, between drag queen Aveline, and smokin' hot Bethany, the party is starting to look like a skit from the SNL episode hosted by Elle MacPherson:

Norm MacDonald: Stan Hooper
Elle MacPherson: Monique Hooper
Cheri Oteri: Gwendolyn Hooper

In the skit, Stan just awoke from a 5-year coma, and is suffering from amnesia. The doctor informs him that his wife has arrived to see him. Shortly thereafter, his sister, Monique, comes and hugs him. Confused, Norm's character thinks that she's his wife. His actual wife, Gwendolyn (rather homely-looking), comes in to comfort him. To shorten it, for the entire skit Norm's character is in total disbelief that Monique is his sister, and Gwendolyn is his wife.

http://snltranscript...95nhooper.phtml

Hopefully, EA will allow BioWare to release a toolset...

No, she doesn't for me.

Aveline looks like regular woman to me. She doesn't even act that butch there, imo even female Sheppard is more butch in way that she behaves than she is.

That's why I said "look a tad butch," not "act a tad butch."

Yes and I said that she doesn't look like one, imo.

"No, she doesn't for me.

Aveline looks like regular woman to me.", in this part.

And also wanted to note that she doesn't even act like one. That could make her look like butch too.

[Notker_Biloba]

Graunt wrote...

Notker_Biloba wrote...
Negative.  In DA:O, on the PC, the "H" key toggles between "Hold Position" and "Move Freely".  When I toggle into "Hold Position" mode, which I almost always do because minion AI r sux, they will do only what I tell them to.  If I select all and right-click an enemy, everyone attacks that enemy, whether in ranged or melee mode.  This is not up for debate.  I've been playing religiously for a year or more.  That's how it is.  That's how I like it.

It's not nice to make up stories and claim they are a fact.  I just loaded the game up again because I know my memory is better than that.  I had everyone set to hold position and they still auto cast every buff their tactic was set to cast.  I also took my main character to a group of enemies and had them chase him.  As soon as they were in range of my allies, my allies would start using ranged attacks.  Melee units will not attack when something is not on top of them, but anyone with a ranged ability or weapon will use it, and all classes will use their buffs and other tactic slots that don't care about range.

Hold position does absolutely nothing but what it states.  You are rooted to the ground, but you still use every available ability when able.

Biloba Corollary to Hanlon's Razor:  never attribute to malice what can be explained by incomplete communication.

Let me back up a minute.  I don't have any automated behaviors on my minions, except maybe persistent spells and such (haste, spell wisp, song of valor, etc.).  When I tell them to hold position, and I do not select a target for them, they do not stray.  Sure, they may fire an arrow or a magic bolts from a staff, but they aren't charging into battle, using spell or talents, etc.  That is the point.  I don't want them charging into battle or using up spells and talents at the wrong time.

Graunt wrote...

"Hold Position" in DA:O does not mean "hold your current postion".

Yes it does.

No, it doesn't.  If it did, then they would not charge an enemy when I select them and then right-click on an enemy that is very far away.  Yet that's exactly what they do.  Running at an enemy is not the same as "holding position".  Try this:  in DA:O, select your entire party and toggle "Hold Position" on; then right-click a point on the ground some distance away.  When I do this, I see four yellow X's on the ground, and then my party members move to take up the positions occupied by the X's.  We can argue semantics, but I call that "not holding position", aka "not moving until I say so".  By "moving" I mean changing locations, not other body movements like firing arrows, combing hair, blinking, whatever; I don't care what they do when "Hold Position" is toggled on and I haven't given them a command (and they're forbidden from automatically using spell and talents not specified in their tactics profile).

Ok, just for giggles, I loaded up DA2 again just now.  If you toggle "Hold Position" on, and you select a single minion and right-click on an enemy, the minion will charge the enemy.  That is consistent with DA:O.  What is inconsistent is that in DA:O, if I had, say, all melee minions, toggle "Hold Position" on, select all party members, and right-click an enemy that is far away, then all party members will charge the enemy.  In DA2 they will not, although ranged units will target the selected enemy (consistent with DA:O).  I'm not lying or making things up.  Try it.  If you don't see the same behavior, then I must have a different version than you.  I'm running DA:O, patch 1.04.

Graunt wrote...

Notker_Biloba wrote...
It only means "don't use your AI to determine your actions".

No it doesn't.

In DA2, it actually does seem to make minions stay in one place.  That is my complaint.

It does the same thing, but more in the demo due to the AI being horribly bugged.  Your allies will simply stop moving, perform no action and usually still not do anything even after you set it to move freely until you select them all and point to the ground or an enemy.

The minions seem to follow better in DA2 in times of peace, with "Move Freely" toggled on.  In DA:O, my experience was that they would follow when I first started a session, but after several battles and such, they would slowly start losing their ability to follow.  (I only use "Move Freely" in times of peace, and even then, only about half the time.)

[Arppis]

Alexus_VG wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Valmarn wrote...

Is it just me, or does Aveline look a tad butch?

Seriously, between drag queen Aveline, and smokin' hot Bethany, the party is starting to look like a skit from the SNL episode hosted by Elle MacPherson:

Norm MacDonald: Stan Hooper
Elle MacPherson: Monique Hooper
Cheri Oteri: Gwendolyn Hooper

In the skit, Stan just awoke from a 5-year coma, and is suffering from amnesia. The doctor informs him that his wife has arrived to see him. Shortly thereafter, his sister, Monique, comes and hugs him. Confused, Norm's character thinks that she's his wife. His actual wife, Gwendolyn (rather homely-looking), comes in to comfort him. To shorten it, for the entire skit Norm's character is in total disbelief that Monique is his sister, and Gwendolyn is his wife.

http://snltranscript...95nhooper.phtml

Hopefully, EA will allow BioWare to release a toolset...

No, she doesn't for me.

Aveline looks like regular woman to me. She doesn't even act that butch there, imo even female Sheppard is more butch in way that she behaves than she is.

They both look and act butch if you ask me but it's hardly something I recon worth complaining about imo, seeing as Sheperd doesn't apply here and I can live with the occasional butch NPC ^^

Sure, there is NOTHING wrong with it. But Aveline didn't seem like one so much to me. And I like variation in the characters, it spices things up! 

[Oerwein]

Graunt wrote...

Oerwein wrote...
So in essence you complain about people who like other types of combat systems - right? because da:o was boring and too tactical and is out dated. now it`s better but no gameplay has changed? for example that it seems in DA:2 there is no chance that a hit will miss? it`s just illusion.

maybe you should think about your own attitude first before constantly criticize others or are you the guru who can decide which combat system is the best instead of letting people decide for themselves

It just makes me wonder how many people have actually played much outside of Origins and maybe one other Bioware game as far as single player roleplaying games go.  Origins did not inject the much needed fresh blood into the genre (Mass Effect did that), and the only thing that was remarkable about it and elevated it above it's cliche LOTR worship were the two very outstanding and droll performances of Morrigan and Alistair.  Without either of them the game would have been very forgettable.

People are free to like watching paint dry if they want, but even if you watch it through time-lapse, you aren't doing anything different.  It's just over with sooner.  I thought the main draw from most roleplaying games anyway was...I dunno, roleplaying and witnessing the impact your choices have as well as the interaction between all of the characters you meet along the way?  Typically combat has always been a secondary concern, even though it makes up most of the game time.  I had more fun allocating stats and deciding builds than I did actually playing those builds.  There's something very wrong with the game design when the idea of the combat is much more appealing than the act itself.

If it sounds like I'm defending everything about DA2, or that I believe Bioware has done everything right this time around, I'm not.  There are a few things I don't agree with, but it's not going to ruin my experience.  I'm also probably one of the few who think a framed narrative and a voiced protagonist are a more entertaining approach.  I want memorable characters and a memorable story and gameplay that doesn't bore me so much that I'll not want to replay it right away.  And if we are to believe some of the early reviews, the storytelling this time around is some of the best in the business.

Oh, and one last thing since the "tactical" supporters just don't seem to understand -- there was absolutely nothing more tactical about Origins than any other game.  Pausing and plodding does not equate to tactics.  Everything that you were able to do in that game could have been done in every previous Bioware game.  I still have no idea why anyone insists that it was tactical other than because it had "tactic slots".  Healing when health is low, focus firing, using line of sight, using area of effect etc may be "tactics" but they are common sense "tactics" used in every game that has those kinds of abilities.  Diablo and Diablo 2 were as tactical as Origins, you simply only controlled one character.  If you don't believe you'll have to perform the same action in DA2 you're kidding yourself.

maybe i didn`t really make myself clear - what you wrote above is fine and valid, but it is just your opinion. and the thing is that you seem to argue with everybody, criticize them for their opinion and try to change their minds.

We all have opinions and we are all entitled to them. there is no best way of making a game.

and i read this thread because i want to look at expierences of others. because i try to be open minded and if someone has some good reasons maybe he can convince me to see things different. but if i completely disagree with him doesn`t mean that i tell him he is wrong - it`s just a different opinion on a matter

[Artemonas]

As a big fan of DA1 I am dissapointed after playing DA2 demo. Much has been said in this forum about negative aspects of the changed gameplay, cartoon graphics and Mass Effect dialogue style. I can only agree with all these comments, and my verdict about DA2 is that I am not going to buy it. Sorry Bioware. You spoiled your best BG and DA traditions with making a manga style teenie game. My only hope now is The Witcher 2...

[Graunt]

Oerwein wrote...
maybe i didn`t really make myself clear - what you wrote above is fine and valid, but it is just your opinion. and the thing is that you seem to argue with everybody, criticize them for their opinion and try to change their minds.

We all have opinions and we are all entitled to them. there is no best way of making a game.

and i read this thread because i want to look at expierences of others. because i try to be open minded and if someone has some good reasons maybe he can convince me to see things different. but if i completely disagree with him doesn`t mean that i tell him he is wrong - it`s just a different opinion on a matter

I don't argue with "everybody", just those that keep making wrong assertions, especially about the combat.  I never said any particular opinion about the dialogue or graphics were "wrong" except that it's ridiculous to complain that the new look is "generic" while claiming that the old wasn't.  You don't have to like the game, it doesn't affect me one way or the other, just like it doesn't affect the fact that the actual combat gameplay is the same as it was in Origins, only faster. Saying that it's not doesn't make it true.