8659 réponses à ce sujet

[DrZoloft]

I know I'm behind the times, but I have an SDTV. Just played the Demo. Can't read it at all. Was it really necessary to use 8 point font? Anyone interested in buying my pre-ordered signature edition? Apparently I wont be able to play it.

[Sidney]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Don't get so caught up in the programming that you miss what the changes mean to the player. 

Nothing? Seriously art style and such don't makie it a hack n' slash or "non-tactical".

Even if you did have to mash the button to attack bad news kids: Morrowwind, Oblviion, Fallout 2, Fallout NV, Mass Effect 1 all required a button mash to attack anything. Auto-attack isn't really the norm nor is it the hallmark of "real" RPG's - the autoattack style was there in NWN and nothing is a more linear, brain dead hack n' slash than that thing. People will comfortably ignore all that since only BG2 was a "real" RPG to some folks - but wait dear god it had ammo, call all the anti-Thermal clips kids in the ME2 forums and let them know that BG2 was a shooter!

As long as you don't have the attention span of  a cat and get distracted by all the movement on the sceen the  new art design don't change how you fight in the game. Here's your challenege: tell what you could do in DAO that you now can't do in DA2 from a "tactical" (and I still resent using that word in relationship to DAO) standpoint.

Modifié par Sidney, 06 mars 2011 - 03:24 .

[Reveal3]

LOL That is too funny! You are right though. The dark spawn look like a cast of apes doing Starlight Express. I think that absolutely qualifies as *gay.*

[Rutaan]

The good:
It's nice to see that the character models look a little more human. Maybe with DA 2, we can actually have some heroic looking toons without waiting a year for the community to give us the obligatory facelift mods, or making morphs in the toolset.

Animations are improved, up to a point. But more on that in the Ugly section. The strangely synchronous formation walking and the mannish female animations seem to be gone for the most part.

The bad:
When I first saw the DA:O interface, I thought it was sadly castrated and dumbed down from the rich world of choices we once had going back to the Darksun games. Compared to DA 2's fat line drawings and radial confusion, it looks like the golden age of the RPG interface. The icons now look like they were all nicked from road signs and warning labels, but I suppose that makes it easier to port to ageing consoles.

I don't know why some posters are bagging on the slightly altered Darkspawn. They were already among the most uninspired villians in RPG history. Toothy, greasy, deformed and mindless, we have already reached that nadir of creativity, so one would think that in the future we would have nowhere to go but up.

The ugly:
When I saw the combat animations, I nearly went ballistic. This isn't an RPG, it's Sonic the Hedgehog. For all of you who say that combat is greatly improved, please put down the crack pipe and touch base with reality. I don't see how anyone could say with a straight face that this is the way RPG combat should be. I really was prepared to make some sacrifices in the RPG experience because of the prevalence of consoles, but the combat in DA 2 is nothing but a corporate sellout to Ritalin addled kiddies.

Bioware, you made your million making RPG's for the PC. Maybe RPG fans like me are obsolete, but if that is true then why is there a DA 2 at all?  I know that EA now owns your souls along with the company name, but don't get too comfortable in those cubicles. Because if there was ever a bubble about to burst, it has to be the ninja-Yugioh-anime. idiocy that you foolishly decided to incorporate into DA 2. I don't think I'm the only RPG fan who feels this way, and somehow I strongly doubt that the ADD kiddies are breathlessly waiting for the next Bioware RPG.

[notso514]

- Couldn't read of the text when in the codex/journal menu or loading screens
- would enjoy to see the finishing moves
- looks sweet though

[kgersen]

Sidney wrote...
This is the thing that blows my mind, you people are apparently so discombobulated by the presenation layer you can't understand what is happening uunder the hood. You do know that if you change themes in Firefox it is still the same browser right?

Well if there was an option to :

- Get back the tactical camera
- Lower the speed from "hysterical monkeys" to "normal"
- Have friendly fire option available to other difficulty level than nightmare.
- Have spells and abilities more tactical and friendly fire friendly like they were in DAO. (This one is based on preview not on the demo which only had a limited selection of both)
- Have full customization for your and your companion equipment.

Then yes I would agree that the changes are only "cosmetic" and that nothing changed under the hood but playing DA2 demo both in "normal" and in nightmare made really regret DAO style gameplay.

[Dlokir]

Rutaan wrote...
...this is the way RPG combat should be...

That's very interesting so there's a way RPG combat should be, and ever better you seem know it perfectely well. I'd be curious to read that.

Let imagine... Morrowind like? Two Worlds 2 like? Or perhaps RPG must be shooters like Mass Effect? Or are you thinking of Ultima VII? Or Final Fantasy VII? Lol..

Well I'll let you explain the magical formula required for any game to be allowed to be named RPG.

[Thy Bleed]

Finally got the DA II character creator to work on PC. I must say I am gifted in displaying the beauty of female frontal mug.

[Dlokir]

kgersen wrote...
Well if there was an option to :

- Get back the tactical camera
- Lower the speed from "hysterical monkeys" to "normal"
- Have friendly fire option available to other difficulty level than nightmare.
- Have spells and abilities more tactical and friendly fire friendly like they were in DAO. (This one is based on preview not on the demo which only had a limited selection of both)
- Have full customization for your and your companion equipment.

Then yes I would agree that the changes are only "cosmetic" and that nothing changed under the hood but playing DA2 demo both in "normal" and in nightmare made really regret DAO style gameplay.

I share your point for the lower speed and friendly fire as a separated option. Quote that Baldur's Gate series had also this option linked to difficulty level. And yes it wasn't cool too.

I don't want the tactical camera but that the current camera could go higher than current max. But honestly from what I have seen from the live demo I wonder if it's not already in the full game.

For spells and abilities I don't see what you mean, you seem mention you already played the full game and experimented it fully. From demo I saw new talents that was quite interesting, if only there was an option for slow speed.

For the full cuztomization you mean it's not possible frim the main character? I don't see what you mean, the inventory shown with the mod for the demo indicates that only companions can't change their armor set and only weapons, shield, rings, necklace and belt. I do agree it's not cool but it's not what will kill the game for me. Perhaps a mod could fix that, but then there will be perhaps a shortage of items in game to equip all companions.

Modifié par Dlokir, 06 mars 2011 - 04:30 .

[Sidney]

kgersen wrote...

- Get back the tactical camera
- Lower the speed from "hysterical monkeys" to "normal"
- Have friendly fire option available to other difficulty level than nightmare.
- Have spells and abilities more tactical and friendly fire friendly like they were in DAO. (This one is based on preview not on the demo which only had a limited selection of both)
- Have full customization for your and your companion equipment.

I'm not sure what problem affects people with the tactical cam. Seriously, the pull back isn't that different and if you are so incompetent you can't target spells w/o a full overhead view then maybe you need to step down from games with 3 dimensions. I can't think of any other game with an overhead targeting - even Madden dropped "coach cam" - view so you must be crippled in pretty much any other game.

Speed is a presenation layer thing, the fact that you think it is material is silly. Pause, target, move on. That's the same. The speed doesn't alter that

FF is a legit concern but it is still there in Nightmare

Customization has nada to do with the combat layer and it being hack n' slash. Playing dress up with your companions is a crappy gameplay mechanic on it's own but has nothing to do with combat.

What I really get is that a lot of people are so hidebound that any slight variation on a theme become impossible for them to cope/handle w/o screaming frenzies of "dumbed down" but I'm thinking the dumb goes the other way.

[The Greye Hawke]

Kastagir wrote...

It's aimed at an easily accessible style of gameplay for short attention span gamers, mostly console owners, who have little patience for tactical combat and no appreciation for realism in a fantasy game, whether it is an RPG or not. The change in direction is a clear effort to maximize sales in the short term through focusing on the simple appeal and not the complexity. This may be a successful strategy, but will likely turn many Bioware fans away from future purchases. In any event, this game will be forgotten in a couple of years.

Because pausing the game every 2 seconds is realistic?

The gameplay doesn't differ much DAO.

[Beerfish]

"When I saw the combat animations, I nearly went ballistic. This isn't an RPG, it's Sonic the Hedgehog. For all of you who say that combat is greatly improved, please put down the crack pipe and touch base with reality. I don't see how anyone could say with a straight face that this is the way RPG combat should be. I really was prepared to make some sacrifices in the RPG experience because of the prevalence of consoles, but the combat in DA 2 is nothing but a corporate sellout to Ritalin addled kiddies."

Combat has very little to do with the quality of an rpg. There is no problem at all with you disliking the combat style and or animations but it has nothing to do with the story, companions and the players ability to affect the story.

[The Greye Hawke]

Pink Leaf wrote...

 I think I will be passing on this hack and slash filler, and saving my money for Dragon age Origins 2.  

Have you played hack and slash games.  DA2 is not even close to one. But good for you.

[kgersen]

Dlokir wrote...
I don't want the tactical camera but that the current camera could go higher than current max.

Higher or not, at least have the possibility to move it freely and
easily select the enemy you want too in the middle of a group.

Dlokir wrote...

For spells and abilities I don't see what you mean, you seem mention you
already played the full game and experimented it fully. From demo I saw
new talents that was quite interesting, if only there was an option for
slow speed.

No I haven't played the full game, like I said it's based on previews I
read in which the journalist complained that the new spells and
abilities were very frustrating to correctly uses with friendly fire
activated because of their bigger  AoE (one of the example was the ice
cone which now had a 90° angle making it harder to uses than the old one
which had a much smaller angle) and the combat speed.

Dlokir wrote...
I don't see what you mean, the inventory shown with the mod for the demo
indicates that only companions can't change their armor set and only
weapons, shield, rings, necklace and belt.

Didn't say that there was no customization possible, just that there was
less. Being able to decide which character to equip with what, be it
armor, weapon or anything. is something that I like to do in
RPGs.

Modifié par kgersen, 06 mars 2011 - 04:52 .

[DarkenSol99]

The Greye Hawke wrote...

Pink Leaf wrote...

 I think I will be passing on this hack and slash filler, and saving my money for Dragon age Origins 2.  

Have you played hack and slash games.  DA2 is not even close to one. But good for you.

From what i gathered at playing the demo DA2 is nothing but a hack and slash, perhaps with more time spent on the story (but not the voice acting) 

Have YOU played hack and slash? 

[The Greye Hawke]

DarkenSol99 wrote...

The Greye Hawke wrote...

Pink Leaf wrote...

 I think I will be passing on this hack and slash filler, and saving my money for Dragon age Origins 2.  

Have you played hack and slash games.  DA2 is not even close to one. But good for you.

From what i gathered at playing the demo DA2 is nothing but a hack and slash, perhaps with more time spent on the story (but not the voice acting) 

Have YOU played hack and slash? 

Well I'm sure they will bring auto attack to the full game.  And yes I have.  I love all video game genres so I play all kinds.  Though I'm not to good at some of them. 

If you compare this to God of War or any other hack and slash. This game is missing a jump button, a constant dodge button and no cool downs.  Pressing the same button would give you different combos and other buttons are for "special" moves that are actually always accessible.

I really see this game more of an rpg than a hack and slash. And not to different from the original DA.

[Dlokir]

kgersen wrote...
Higher or not, at least have the possibility to move it freely and
easily select the enemy you want too in the middle of a group.

Yes Drakensang had this problem. In DAO the game wasn't managing the vision with the tactical view, so you could see through walls with the tactical view and in fact could cast many spells through walls, enemy could do that too.

But ok I had forgot this point, target selection and ability to move the tactical cam more freely. I need test but I agree it's almost certain this will be a nuisance to not have it.

No I haven't played the full game, like I said it's based on previews I
read in which the journalist complained that the new spells and
abilities were very frustrating to correctly uses with friendly fire
activated because of their bigger  AoE (one of the example was the ice
cone which now had a 90° angle making it harder to uses than the old one
which had a much smaller angle) and the combat speed.

For the combat speed it's another point and I totally agree.

For less good talents and spells I wonder. Appart this example I wonder how many more you have like that, because for me I enjoyed new talents like the brutal 2H attack with AOE push back effect, like the rogue sneak attack allowing combine attack and position behind an enemy, like the rush forward attack (it should not require a target to be even better), and some more. But yes I need experiment the full game.

Didn't say that there was no customization possible, just that there was
less.

Yes but you quote it for the main character too and I think this is wrong for this case. I also wanted quote what was exactly missing for companions.

Being able to decide which character to equip with what, be it
armor, weapon or anything. is something that I like to do in
RPGs.

You can customize weapons and shields of companions, and also 2 rings, necklace and belt. 

All other modern RPG non JRPG are with a single character and JRPG are far to be champions in that matter. Well ok there was the Drakensang series which died, and ME gone even worse about that point.

So yes I mean it's not good but you will only find less good elsewhere. And you still have 6 items customization for companions including the weapons and shield.

[SuperMedbh]

If you compare this to God of War or any other hack and slash. This game is missing a jump button, a constant dodge button and no cool downs.  Pressing the same button would give you different combos and other buttons are for "special" moves that are actually always accessible.

I think that sort of thing might be fun.  Jade Empire's combat system was enjoyable, for example, although perhaps that sort of thing fits better into the JE genre than it does in the (at least formerly) gritty setting of Dragon Age. 

After playing the demo off and on for a week (and trust me, if it wasn't Bioware, I wouldn't have), I've gotten to the point that I no longer think of this as a Dragon Age game.  And therefore, I'm starting to enjoy it a bit.  I think the difference is that DAO was a fantasy with roots in reality, whereas DA2 is purely imagination.  Call it Tolkein vs. Anime.  To take a random example, the massive armors in DAO were basically late 15th century/16th century jousting armors.  Now, you wouldn't have seen anyone on foot actually wearing that, but it still had that "seen it before" resonance.  Not sure what the DA2 chest wedge is based on, on the other hand, other than the "looks bad ass" school of character modeling. 

Not that there's anything wrong with that.  But it is a different aesthetic.  And I'll differ from some earlier posters here in that I think that things such as art style and combat are extremely important to videogames.  Trust me, I buy Bioware games for the mature narrative, too.  But in a videogame, the other components should dovetail with the overall feeling of the narrative.  DAO's art meshed with the broodiness of the narrative and the themes of sacrifice and mortality.  DA2 is clearly aimed at a lighter feeling, with over the top sillyness in combat and plastic surgery victims who own pirate ships (seriously, when is this new Isabella going to say "Yaaaar!!!".  It's all good, as they say).

I expect DA2 to be pure fluff.  But you know, sometimes fluff is fine.  I loved Plants vs. Zombies, I expect I'll enjoy DA2 as well.

[PJN161]

Now, before you get all bent out of shape... remember, it`s just an opinion, and I`m perfectly entitled to it.

DA2 is quite simply an abomination.

from Bioware and Interplay and Black Isle, i`ve laid down my hard cash for best part of 14 years. Apart from the occasional "duffer" of a game, they have consistently delivered in believability, atmosphere, story and gameplay. I have lost weeks, months, probably years playing through them all.
the arrival , for me, of DAO and its addons gave me yet more weeks and weeks of pleasure as I honed each class to a fine art and explored it all.
When I`d finally done with DAO and all the addons, I plunged into Red Dead on my Xbox and decided to wait for the demo of DA2.

oh dear..oh dear oh dear.
A button bashing, mish mash of grotesquely drawn characters and enemies... spartan landscapes and weird freakazoid technicolour settings and spells.
Spell trees that arent, upgrades and level ups that arent, weapons that defy all logic or sense of believability.
the voice acting is stilted and forced, the interactions are ludicrous.... but the real snotsmeared disgrace is...
Gameplay!

the one thing that Bioware were always streets ahead on..irrespective of multiple glitches and bugs , was the gameplay.
This just feels like a pre-teen dimwits console fanboi concession.

Absolutely abominable.

Cheer and applaud it all you like, but the Emperor is standing there, buck naked, for all to see, and once the bandwagon jumping applause has worn off and youre left with this abortive child of a great game, you`ll have to admit what a wasted opportunity this game was.

bring on Skyrim! That at least LOOKS like it`s meant to look.

[Kiku_vas_Normandy]

I'm playing the demo right now and looks great! It's feel completely different, is the game develop in the right way is gonna be much better than DA 1!

[Dlokir]

The Greye Hawke wrote...
...
And (the combat) not to different from the original DA.
...

Thanksfully it seems they bring some improvements like:

• Longuer potions cooldown to force you use more tactical fighting and abusing less of potions.
• Also the mana and endurance use seems have changed significantly. And the new balance seems better.
• There's much more talents potentially allowing many more building.
• They tried design more general talents allowing make them useful with skills from other trees, this too for providing more builds.
• They also tried offer more tactical effects/choices through talents, like combining positioning and attack, and more.

But the speed increase is a very weird choice that change a lot the whole system, even if the base rules are quite similar. It's such an error to not have offer an option to slow down this speed, at least during fights.

[Knabbstabb]

With console people happy and EA & bioware making money im sure this will be a hit ,  for pc users R.I.P
Im sure this is the future of PC gaming we are seeing in action right now with bioware making their games for the main stream > console kids  / fanboys . Basicly it's their fault

For all the pc tactical view fans like me , we get a totaly different game with less customization overall .

I think many Baldurs gate and DAO fans was wanting more of everything and not removal of stuff that worked great like char inv , tradeskills , toolset , tactical view , that great UI in DAO and much more from a sequel to such a great game as Dragon Age Origins was ..

even game length is shorter , im sure everyone really wanted a longer game with much more areas too discover .

I agree in most if not all the negative feedback in this thread .

Hope im wrong , but like many i canceled my pre order after playing the demo .

[Rutaan]

Dlokir wrote...

Rutaan wrote...
...this is the way RPG combat should be...

That's very interesting so there's a way RPG combat should be, and ever better you seem know it perfectely well. I'd be curious to read that.

Let imagine... Morrowind like? Two Worlds 2 like? Or perhaps RPG must be shooters like Mass Effect? Or are you thinking of Ultima VII? Or Final Fantasy VII? Lol..

Well I'll let you explain the magical formula required for any game to be allowed to be named RPG.

Dude, we already have 10,000 manic ninja jump and smack down games. There was absolutely no reason to make this into another. It might acutally be fun if it was slowed down. Please, please incorporate a combat slowdown option into the first patch.

[SuperMedbh]

It might acutally be fun if it was slowed down. Please, please incorporate a combat slowdown option into the first patch.

Agree.  It's not really the combat mechanics per se, it's the frenetic animations.  Just slowing them down a tad would make it seem less over the top.  And they seem to have enough time to do that between animations.  Right now it's WOOOSH!!! beat beat beat  WHOOOSH!!!!.  Makes it seem a bit herky jerky;  I think it would be less so if some of that wait were filled by a stretched animation.

[Dlokir]

Rutaan wrote...
...
Dude, we already have 10,000 manic ninja jump and smack down games. There was absolutely no reason to make this into another. It might acutally be fun if it was slowed down. Please, please incorporate a combat slowdown option into the first patch.
...

Well I never play on consoles and very few action games so I could not see the disaster of "all" games looking a bit the same with "ninja jumps" and "smack down". 

Appart all games doing the same I didn't found it that bad, and enjoyed the mixing of attack and some quick positioning.

But for the combat speed, at first I believed it was a lot a matter of getting used to it. But now I have played about 10 times the demo, and 3 times more in Nightmare mode. And in parallel I played some DAO DLC quite oriented on combats. Now I start suspect a lot that this too high speed is a big nuisance, wasting a nice tactical design improved from DAO.

I have other complains from clues that give the demo, but that combat speed is a black point and I'm looking to try a bit play the game and if I see the speed continue be a nuisance for me, I'll pause it to expect a mod or a fix to change that or at least to give an option for slow down.

Modifié par Dlokir, 06 mars 2011 - 05:58 .