140 réponses à ce sujet

[Guns]

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

metalfenix wrote...

My first Hawke will be a mage, but I really prefer to have bethany around than carver...maybe I'll keep carver in the bottom of my campment if I find another sword fighter.

See it's not that people just don't want someone it's that they want the other person but still want to play a class of their choice. Bioware has already chosen too much for the player this is just getting rediculous.

Dragon Age 2 is about Hawke's life. In life, you don't always get to choose what happens to you and your family. Especially in regards to who lives and dies. Sorry, but at this point in time, that's just something that happens to the Champion that he can't control no matter how hard he tries.

Also, we know next to nothing about the personality of the characters and who they actually are. To offer that decision would be to let people make their choices purely off of superficial characteristics rather than who the characters actually are.

Yes, but it's an rpg which are games that you let you make choices especially ones like these which Bioware has done with Dragon Age 1 and Mass Effect. They didn't choose between Kaiden and Alisha based on your class. They didn't choose Samara or Morinth for you based on if you were good or evil.

Better then offing a character for the simple sake of balance which is really not needed especially since they give you a tank to start off.

[Albatroz]

Guns wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

metalfenix wrote...

My first Hawke will be a mage, but I really prefer to have bethany around than carver...maybe I'll keep carver in the bottom of my campment if I find another sword fighter.

See it's not that people just don't want someone it's that they want the other person but still want to play a class of their choice. Bioware has already chosen too much for the player this is just getting rediculous.

Dragon Age 2 is about Hawke's life. In life, you don't always get to choose what happens to you and your family. Especially in regards to who lives and dies. Sorry, but at this point in time, that's just something that happens to the Champion that he can't control no matter how hard he tries.

Also, we know next to nothing about the personality of the characters and who they actually are. To offer that decision would be to let people make their choices purely off of superficial characteristics rather than who the characters actually are.

Yes, but it's an rpg which are games that you let you make choices especially ones like these which Bioware has done with Dragon Age 1 and Mass Effect. They didn't choose between Kaiden and Alisha based on your class. They didn't choose Samara or Morinth for you based on if you were good or evil.

Better then offing a character for the simple sake of balance which is really not needed especially since they give you a tank to start off.

Yes, but by the time those decisions came up you both knew the characters well enough to make a decision and you were in a position where you were capable of saving one of them. (And actually, if you're Paragon or Renegade isn't high enough, ME2 does make a decision for you. You get Samara). The start of DA2, especially the first time you play through it, neither of these aspects are true. It's a life lesson, sometimes you don't get what you want and sometimes you can't stop bad things from happening.

[Drowsy0106]

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

metalfenix wrote...

My first Hawke will be a mage, but I really prefer to have bethany around than carver...maybe I'll keep carver in the bottom of my campment if I find another sword fighter.

See it's not that people just don't want someone it's that they want the other person but still want to play a class of their choice. Bioware has already chosen too much for the player this is just getting rediculous.

Also, we know next to nothing about the personality of the characters and who they actually are. To offer that decision would be to let people make their choices purely off of superficial characteristics rather than who the characters actually are.

Bethany has some very nice attributes that allow me to connect with her in a very spiritual way and because of that her loss was a very emotional moment for me, even that early in the game. There is really no need to make those kind of shallow assumptions. 

[Guns]

Yes, but if you want a game to play out like you play a game with a set story. Not an rpg where you're meant to be able to make these decisions.

[Albatroz]

Guns wrote...

Yes, but if you want a game to play out like you play a game with a set story. Not an rpg where you're meant to be able to make these decisions.

You don't get to make every decision yourself. Sometimes those choices are made for you, and you have to live with it. It's unrealistic to expect everything to go just how you want it, in a game or in real life. In DAO I wanted Daveth to survive the Joining and go on adventures with me, but he died. Sure, I was a bit disappointed, but I put on my big boy pants and continued on with my life.

[Guns]

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

Yes, but if you want a game to play out like you play a game with a set story. Not an rpg where you're meant to be able to make these decisions.

You don't get to make every decision yourself. Sometimes those choices are made for you, and you have to live with it. It's unrealistic to expect everything to go just how you want it, in a game or in real life. In DAO I wanted Daveth to survive the Joining and go on adventures with me, but he died. Sure, I was a bit disappointed, but I put on my big boy pants and continued on with my life.

You don't get to make decisions like that, but you do get to make decisions based on multiple people in every Bioware game except this situation.

[RandomSyhn]

This is only one situation presented, chances are there will be many more where you'll be given a choice. And to be realistic (or at least as realistic you can be where an ogre is involved) would you really have any say about who that Ogre decides to attack? not really. I do agree I kind of want Carver in my party, I also want to play rogue, to solve that problem I'll just have multiple playthroughs.

[Albatroz]

Guns wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

Yes, but if you want a game to play out like you play a game with a set story. Not an rpg where you're meant to be able to make these decisions.

You don't get to make every decision yourself. Sometimes those choices are made for you, and you have to live with it. It's unrealistic to expect everything to go just how you want it, in a game or in real life. In DAO I wanted Daveth to survive the Joining and go on adventures with me, but he died. Sure, I was a bit disappointed, but I put on my big boy pants and continued on with my life.

You don't get to make decisions like that, but you do get to make decisions based on multiple people in every Bioware game except this situation.

<_< Once again I'll state that in those games it was realistically possible for the character to save one of his companions. On Virmire, Shepard had enough time and was skilled enough to save one of the two companions in danger. On Omega, Samara and Morinth were equally powered and caught in a deadlock that would only end with Shepard's interference. At the start of DA2, Hawke is pretty much unskilled, and would only have a split second to save a family member from the Ogre, even if he was skilled enough to do so. The choice would only come if both of them were in danger simultaneously, which is not the case. If it was, I doubt at that stage in his life, Hawke would be strong enough to save either of them, let alone arbitrarily choose which one he'd prefer to save.

[Guns]

When it comes down to it, it's just a bad decision by Bioware to making a class part of the main story line.

[Albatroz]

Guns wrote...

When it comes down to it, it's just a bad decision by Bioware to making a class part of the main story line.

And it's better to allow the player to make an arbitrary decision based on purely superficial characteristics that impacts the main story line? If BioWare makes this choice for us, it allows the subsequent story to better and more cohesive. When it comes down to it, it's one choice in the whole game we don't get to make, and the rest of the game will be better because of that.

[Marindo]

Guns wrote...

RunNeonTiger wrote...

Guns wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

OP, I think your sig pretty much rules out the possibility of you NOT being sexist. >.>

The lore in dragon age has pretty much proven Men are have been and are currently the strongest race, and that men are dominant over women. My sig is purely about the Dragon Age universe.

1. Male is not a race.
2. Please provide some examples to prove your claim, I'd love to see them.
3. That doesn't make it any less offensive.

1. Men is often interchanged with human as the name for the race. I mean humans are the strongest race in the Dragon Age universe.
2. Ferelden is a monarchy and the world itself are based on civilizations and time periods that hold men with more rights.
3. I'm not making any jab at women just using lore that Bioware has created and provided.

Ferelden's a monarchy means that men are superior? Who was the real power behind the throne, Cailain or Anora? Let's be honest, Cailain was just a figure head. And who's arguably the most powerful person in Thedas? The head of the Chantry, the Revered Mother. There are just as many women of power in Thedas as men. Also, regardless of how you justify your rationale, if you say men are superior to women (which you do), you're making a jab at women.

Yes a monarchy is set up so men have more rights than women. Anora may have been wiser than Cailan, but Cailan still had the power. The Chantry is ruled by woman because the chantry members are priestesses while men become Templars. Why do men become templars? Because they are physically stronger and are better suited for fighting demons and apostates. Not to mention the Chantry in the Tevinter Imperium is a man. I'm saying in the Dragon Age universe men are superior to women which is true, it's not a jab in any way.

But that's just simply incorrect, I believe Bioware has stated many times that men and women are equal in Ferelden. Anora did all the ruling, Cailan was just a figurehead because he was the son of Maric. There are also female templars.

If there are female templars I stand corrected I have never seen any so I assumed it was just a female warden character who could become one, but that was simply for gameplay reasons, kinda of like arguments with being a blood mage etc.

And no Anora did not do the ruling Cailan did. It specifically said she just influenced Cailan. If so Anora could've ruled when Cailan died, oh nope Loghain became the reagent.

Female Templar = Rylock from Dragon Age Awakening. She wanted Anders head.

[Guns]

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

When it comes down to it, it's just a bad decision by Bioware to making a class part of the main story line.

And it's better to allow the player to make an arbitrary decision based on purely superficial characteristics that impacts the main story line? If BioWare makes this choice for us, it allows the subsequent story to better and more cohesive. When it comes down to it, it's one choice in the whole game we don't get to make, and the rest of the game will be better because of that.

Uh I believe we didn't get to choose his race or origin either. Too much customization can affect the story, but not enough can also affect it too. They made it work in Origins and the story was great.

[Marindo]

Maj.Pain007 wrote...

Guns wrote...

Really don't want a bimbo who speaks her mind on every issue nor am I fan of apostates, but I want to play a rogue.

How is she a Bimbo? I rathre like the fact a character speaks out and let their voice be heard. Why are Apostates bad? Not every Apostate is evil.

Apostates aren't bad or evil, they're just misunderstood =) Like Anders. That mage cracks me up XD

And I personally prefer Bethany over Caver ==

[Albatroz]

Guns wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

When it comes down to it, it's just a bad decision by Bioware to making a class part of the main story line.

And it's better to allow the player to make an arbitrary decision based on purely superficial characteristics that impacts the main story line? If BioWare makes this choice for us, it allows the subsequent story to better and more cohesive. When it comes down to it, it's one choice in the whole game we don't get to make, and the rest of the game will be better because of that.

Uh I believe we didn't get to choose his race or origin either. Too much customization can affect the story, but not enough can also affect it too. They made it work in Origins and the story was great.

The story in Origins was mediocre. The storytelling and characters were great, but the story itself was incredibly cliche. And you know what, having Hawke as the solitary character will result in a stronger story as well. We wouldn't have the sibling companions at all if we were able to choose the origin. It would become like Origins, where people only ever seemed to remember who you were prior to your Joining once every dozen conversations. We give up choices at the beginning to get more choices, better choices, later in the game.

[Guns]

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

When it comes down to it, it's just a bad decision by Bioware to making a class part of the main story line.

And it's better to allow the player to make an arbitrary decision based on purely superficial characteristics that impacts the main story line? If BioWare makes this choice for us, it allows the subsequent story to better and more cohesive. When it comes down to it, it's one choice in the whole game we don't get to make, and the rest of the game will be better because of that.

Uh I believe we didn't get to choose his race or origin either. Too much customization can affect the story, but not enough can also affect it too. They made it work in Origins and the story was great.

The story in Origins was mediocre. The storytelling and characters were great, but the story itself was incredibly cliche. And you know what, having Hawke as the solitary character will result in a stronger story as well. We wouldn't have the sibling companions at all if we were able to choose the origin. It would become like Origins, where people only ever seemed to remember who you were prior to your Joining once every dozen conversations. We give up choices at the beginning to get more choices, better choices, later in the game.

Mediocre? Seems to be good enough to keep you hooked and get you to post on a forum about it. How exactly is it cliche?

Modifié par Guns, 25 février 2011 - 12:06 .

[Albatroz]

Guns wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

The RustMonster wrote...

Guns wrote...

When it comes down to it, it's just a bad decision by Bioware to making a class part of the main story line.

And it's better to allow the player to make an arbitrary decision based on purely superficial characteristics that impacts the main story line? If BioWare makes this choice for us, it allows the subsequent story to better and more cohesive. When it comes down to it, it's one choice in the whole game we don't get to make, and the rest of the game will be better because of that.

Uh I believe we didn't get to choose his race or origin either. Too much customization can affect the story, but not enough can also affect it too. They made it work in Origins and the story was great.

The story in Origins was mediocre. The storytelling and characters were great, but the story itself was incredibly cliche. And you know what, having Hawke as the solitary character will result in a stronger story as well. We wouldn't have the sibling companions at all if we were able to choose the origin. It would become like Origins, where people only ever seemed to remember who you were prior to your Joining once every dozen conversations. We give up choices at the beginning to get more choices, better choices, later in the game.

Mediocre? Seems to be good enough to keep you hooked and get you to post on a forum about. How exactly is it cliche?

There's an apocalypse coming that only an elite group of people can stop by gathering allies. Despite what you may think, this was not a revolutionary new story that BioWare created in DAO. But, like I said, the way they told the story was done very well, and the characters they created to fill the world were exceptionally crafted. 

[DrewKime]

I have to agree with guns on this one, I would rather take bethany and not carver, but i would like to play as a mage.

The problem here is down to player choice, they seemed to have removed a lot of it in this game and the more I read, the more I want my pre-order cancelled.



Your arguements for scenario's and saving people is mute to be perfectly honest, mages can heal, there is a 1 fix, not even hard to think up either. Another is you stop the ogre before it reaches said target with a quick reaction, just like you can in ME2 with renagade and paragon actions.



The fact you seem to think the character would have no link or emotional reason to not want to to even try to save his/ her sister or brother given the choice is just rediculous. Add to this the blatent, "oh my sibling just got thier head smashed in right infront of me... oh well off we pop!" attitude is far from teaching us anything.

so on to life lessons... seriously? do we really need them in games? if you need life lessons from a computer game then you must have been living in a padded cell since birth.

[LenaMarie]

I think most people would save Bethany given the choice. Seems to me most people hate carver. I wonder if Bioware knows this?

I think not having a choice of who to save stinks, if Im a mage, I dont want to be stuck with Carver, I think bethany is much better.

Modifié par LenaMarie, 25 février 2011 - 02:36 .

[Kingthlayer]

I agree with the OP. Would love to have the option on at least one play through where I and my brother are chopping heads off with giant swords.



Also at people bashing his sig and calling him sexist. If it said female instead of male, no one would say anything. Which is another point I agree on, when female Hawke had the stare down with the templar it just looked goofy.

[Pauravi]

ThunderfoxF wrote...

The Archon wrote...

I want Carver aswell, but I want to play a rogue. Hope a mod or something comes in and allows this sort of play, don't exactly like Bethany.

Bros forever, you know.

Its been hinted that any such mod would be game breaking

If we get the toolset, hopefully that will not be the case if someone can make a clever enough mod.

The way I hear it is that the issue is with the game putting both characters into cutscenes.  The game will figure out who is supposed to be there and put them into cutscenes along with the one who is there, making a smashed up mess of polygons.

If someone can make a mod that tricks the game into believing that one character or the other is supposed to survive, then perhaps there would be no problem.  However, I can also see it being a problem if neither of the characters (either the PC or surviving sibling) are mages since it has been hinted that the story revolves around one of you being an apostate, but that is a slightly different issue.

[Taxonomy]

Also at people bashing his sig and calling him sexist. If it said female instead of male, no one would say anything. Which is another point I agree on, when female Hawke had the stare down with the templar it just looked goofy.

He called Bethany a "bimbo" (a female-only term for stupid.) That's sexist in and of itself, made worse by the fact that there's little-to-no evidence of Bethany being stupid in the DA2 Demo. He then attacks her for "speaking her mind" - what is normally a positive trait. The natural inference is that he feels women should not speak their mind. 

I'm sorry, but this is clear-cut sexism. The signature only makes it worse - even if the Dragon Age world is a patriarchal place (a questionable proposition), seizing on that as a part of your online identity suggests serious real-world issues with gender roles.

OP, you need to seriously reexamine your own attitudes to women. That kind of nonsense ain't going to fly in the business world, and may get you in serious trouble as you grow older.

[-Decay-]

I wonder why the surprise. They did much the same with the Human origin in the first game, by having your mother, and father killed.. And only seeing your brother at the end of the game for a short moment. At least this time, you get to keep one for a while. -Snickers- I admit, I would of liked to play a mage and keep Bethani. Carver to me, felt like a red shirt in Star trek. No real personality, sort of a place holder. Hopefully, his personality will improve later in the game with my mage playthrough.

To bad you can't have the mom as a companion. That would of been funny, maybe for the warrior. Got to protect mama.. Rogue as sister to protect her, and little mage big brother. Hehehe.


PS: How was the femhawk interraction goofy? It clearly show the Templar knows not to cross women, especially his mate/wife.  Pretty much the reason he did back down more then the sex of fem or male hawk. At least, to me it looked that way.

Modifié par -Decay-, 25 février 2011 - 07:49 .

[XX55XX]

I personally want a mod that allows us to choose between the two. That is technically possible... right?

[DrWangopolis]

Maybe I'm the only one who noticed this but Bethany and Carver both only have 5 Skill trees instead of 6 (lacking the special companion skill tree that's linked to friend/rival system) so it might be that neither one is going to be with you the whole game.