63 réponses à ce sujet

[Echoes]

Riona45 wrote...

I would think they didn't intend to make him like Alistair. 

It's not about making him Alistair, it's about making him interesting. He very well may turn out to be interesting, but first impressions are hard to get past.

Alistair was just an easy analog to better explain what I meant.

[RedRoo]

Jesus, am I the only one who likes Carver? When you're a warrior/rogue Hawke and you get his little codex, he sounds like a great character (with a very good reason why he's on the Rival side of things from the get-go). Not that Bethany isn't great (her codex is the more heartbreaking of the two, imo), but I like that Carver's going to be brassy with me now and then.

[Nyaore]

Cordyte wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

I would think they didn't intend to make him like Alistair. 

It's not about making him Alistair, it's about making him interesting. He very well may turn out to be interesting, but first impressions are hard to get past.

Alistair was just an easy analog to better explain what I meant.

And this is probably one of the reasons WHY they took away the choice in the first place, excluding the obvious story and balance related ones. People are judging Carver when they barely even know him as a character, and have almost universally preferred Bethany - who could be an insipid harlot for all we know at this point. (Much like how Carver could be a fart ridden drunkard for all we know. Out of all the companions, they're the ones we know the LEAST about.) Why even bother making an expendable character choice that's apparently intricately woven into the story when most people are automatically assuming that Bethany is the bee's knees compared to her brother?

Modifié par Nyaore, 23 février 2011 - 02:38 .

[Takeva_]

I don't really like Bethany but I'm leaning towards playing a rogue or warrior. At least you have 2 classes to get Bethany whilst I only have the mage class for Carver. I probably will kick Bethany out of my party when I get Merrill or Anders. Problem solved

[Echoes]

Nyaore wrote...

Cordyte wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

I would think they didn't intend to make him like Alistair. 

It's not about making him Alistair, it's about making him interesting. He very well may turn out to be interesting, but first impressions are hard to get past.

Alistair was just an easy analog to better explain what I meant.

And this is probably one of the reasons WHY they took away the choice in the first place, excluding the obvious story and balance related ones. People are judging Carver when they barely even know him as a character, and have almost universally preferred Bethany - who could be an insipid harlot for all we know at this point. (Much like how Carver could be a fart ridden drunkard for all we know. Out of all the companions, they're the ones we know the LEAST about.) Why even bother making an expendable character choice that's apparently intricately woven into the story when most people are automatically assuming that Bethany is the bee's knees compared to her brother?

This feels like the Ashley/ Kaiden choice. I know alot of people who like Ashley quite alot, I thought she was an intolerable nuisance whom I didn't want to pick up in the first place and couldn't be rid of quick enough. Granted Kaiden was a boring sod, so maybe it's not a good analogy. Perhaps give the choice to kill them both then? ;P

[Fidget6]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Cordyte wrote...

Well that's dissapointing, guess I'll just have to mod it in myself. I personally think it would be better if everyone got Bethany no exceptions and Carver was just the designated "hero" for the prologue.

Developers have strongly implied that any mods that alter this will break things.

I'm guessing because either you being a mage, or having Bethany in your party will be a huge part of the story, so if both of you were in the party a lot of the dialogue wouldn't make sense, and you would end up confusing the game. Same with being a rogue/warrior and having Carver in the party, if Bethany wasn't there and you weren't a mage, many of the key points in the game probably couldn't happen. This is all speculation of course, but it makes sense. We've already seen the scene where Carver says, "We're running away from YOUR bloody templars!" 

Modifié par Fidget6, 23 février 2011 - 02:44 .

[Kesarion]

How about having Bethany as a warrior and Carver as a mage, that would solve the balance issue and everyone would be happy. The voice actors have to speak a few more lines but it would work as a dlc. I'd definitely get that.

[mirotheking]

well i finished the game with both mage and warrior and i do like bethany better if amod like this one comes out or a dlc i will get it

[emlit]

Cordyte wrote...

Does anyone know if this is possible, I assume in the demo it's not because of the limited scope. My dilemma comes from my distaste (at least thus far) for Carver. He's a bit of a poppet so I'd like to keep Bethany alive and let Carver get his, I realise for the demo it makes more sense to keep Carver alive if your the mage. If only for Party variety, but when it comes to the main game and the dozens of hours it'll take me to play through. I'd prefer not to be stuck with a character I just don't like.


Regards
    
~Cordyte

Ack!  Spoiler!

[W-ar]

replace Carver with Fenris, definitely one of the best elf-characters in any fantasy game/movie/book imho

[Montana]

Cordyte wrote...

Does anyone know if this is possible, I assume in the demo it's not because of the limited scope. My dilemma comes from my distaste (at least thus far) for Carver. He's a bit of a poppet so I'd like to keep Bethany alive and let Carver get his, I realise for the demo it makes more sense to keep Carver alive if your the mage. If only for Party variety, but when it comes to the main game and the dozens of hours it'll take me to play through. I'd prefer not to be stuck with a character I just don't like.


Regards
    
~Cordyte

I didn't like Carver until I played a Mage.
I still dont' like Carver, but I love to hate him. He's a jealous, whiney little brat. I maxed out his rivalry in less than 5 hours and now I have a sibling-feud with him.

[Spartas Husky]

This is the worst type of storytelling I have seen... I just got this game... wanted to make a battle mage as kool as the trailer and turns out my sister dies???....bioware.... I am at a loss of words.

is like as if in Mass Effect 1, Jenkins survived and alenko died.... some guys are just ment to die at the beginning... seriously... WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ANd yes I am overreacting a bit... but seriously why coulnd't both survive?.... aveline the knight is barely noticeable in the beginning, I wouldn't care if she died.

bad sport bioware bad sport..............................................................
just like the guy who thought heat clips in bioware was a good idea, should be fire, burnt, slaped and branded with a big hot iron in the shape of an L on his forehead... so is the guy or gal who thought the siblings dying according to your class was a good idea.... so much for a game based around 'choice'.


Again a good example would be Mass effect 1:.

Alenko survives: if you play any class that does not uses biotics.
Alenko dies: if you play any class capable of the smallest biotics.

So if I want alenko to be alive... I can't be a vanguard, adept, or sentinel??/.....why? is that a good idea? if not, then WTF was it done here.

Seriously I wanted to play a mage so bad with bethany and anders at my side... and now the dream got blasted out the window.

kentan900 wrote...

I dont think its possible since it will be very unbalanced at the start with two mages.

to respont to this type of thinking. Was it unbalance to start DA with 2 mages as morrigan and you as a mage?
Was it unbalance to start as a sentinel in ME1 even though Kaiden ALenko is already a biotic?
Is it unbalance to start as a warrior, if you got allistair in DA1?
Is it unbalance to start as a soldier, pure brawn if your going to have ashley moments later?

Doesn't matter whether is balanced or not... point is to have you choose one guy or the other and not put such a stupid burden.

So much for a game based around "choice" your base should start the same no matter your class, now reaction of people and quests should differ.

PS: whoever at bioware who thought of the idea, I better not meet you in real life or I'll slap you... twice. Once for thinking it, and twice for implementing it.

PS2: rented this game... certain as hell now I wont spend 60 bucks on this thing. And certain even more DA3 will be rented first to make sure. Thank god I listened to my friend...fat bastard has a reliable gut instinct.

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 19 mars 2011 - 03:09 .

[Vyrkull]

I dont care, i want "my sister" alive! I wanted to be a "dps" mage, but how if the healer dies?
I really dont want to heal the others just because te bioware thought the game will be unbalanced...
If someone know a mod which gives you a choice to save the character you want, please send me a mail, or something.
pleeeease

[v_ware]

It's essential to keep the game balanced at the start until you get more companions.

[Ryvack]

 Get this in the spoilers section.  

Way to go OP...you don't put story spoilers straight in the title...many of us have not finished.  

THINK!

[DanaScu]

Ryvack wrote...

 Get this in the spoilers section.  

Way to go OP...you don't put story spoilers straight in the title...many of us have not finished.  

THINK!

Well, Bioware released the demo, and that is where the issue about which
sibling survives was first noticed, and that, judging by the date, is
what the op was talking about. If the company releases the information
in a demo, how much of a spoiler can it be?

[Kesarion]

Good point Dana, there's nothing here that you don't find out in the demo.

I tried the console commands and it works, if you start out as warrior and change to mage. It's bugged as hell though and sometimes bethany has carver's voice.
Also, I don't understand why some of you say they did this for balance because I found it much more entertaining starting with 2 mages and it wasn't difficult at all. It was great, they should really patch this or make a dlc. And 4 mages later on simply ROCKS ! It's the ultimate team you can assemble

[elimccl]

I used console commands (PC version) to get this working. I made a rogue, I think, let Carver die, then used chargen to make myself a mage. Unfortunately, the game constantly checks to see what profession you are when it decides what scenes to play. As a result, in the first scene, Bethany stands silently while Carver's lines seem to emanate from her body. Later, in the city, Carver continues to speak lines and the camera focuses on where he'd be, even though he has no body. Even Bethany isn't there. So, you get the worst of both worlds.

I'll note that this was what broke me, and kept me from bothering with a second playthrough. I had for about a couple of hours before that been trying to make a character that looked decent that didn't end up with hideous family members. After giving up on that, I concentrated on at least getting the profession I wanted (mage) with the character I wanted (Bethany... well, I more didn't want Carver as opposed to wanting Bethany - both are one dimensional bores).

You'd have to mod a great deal to get it working correctly. Why they insisted on doing this, I don't know. It's odd how they chose to commit to things that should be up to the player, yet refused to commit to things that related to characterization.

[CaimDark]

This belongs in the spoilers forum. When I first started the game I had no idea anyone died and I'm glad no one spoiled the surprise for me.

[coomber]

Does anyone know if this is possible?: That someone can create a thread in a forum marked "NO SPOILERS" without putting a spoiler in its title.

Modifié par coomber, 27 mars 2011 - 03:47 .

[Mystical80]

Cordyte wrote...

Possibly, but I really think it should be my choice to make.

Maria Caliban wrote...

And dwarves should be mages because, hey, it should be my choice to make.
Also, all love interests should be bisexual because it's my choice to make.
My Dalish should have been able to become the queen of Ferelden because it's my choice to make.

Do you want a rationale for what happened?

If you were a mage, your father always showed more affection to Hawke than Bethany, so she became closer to mom. If PC Hawke wasn't a mage, Bethany was his favorite and Carver ended up being the one closer to mom.

While you are correct regarding the developer-created lore in the game, it pretty much comes down the property law on this matter.

In an MMO, all information regarding player characters (what they wear, which group they belong to etc.) is owned by the developer. Otherwise, a developer would not be able to make adjustments to class abilities and such. In this game however, the "right of adjustment" changes from the developer to the owner of the game the moment the individual pays the appropriate amount of currency and receives his/her copy.

At that particular moment, the individual becomes "a supreme being", being able to overrule any event in the game (depending on the modding skill of the player) and thus being way more powerful than even the Maker can ever be. Any individual adjustments to the game do not affect the perfomance of the game for other individuals. So in your example. If a Dalish elf wants to be queen-consort of Ferelden alongside Alistair, then it is not a question of whether the game has sufficient lore for it. It simply happens because of one reason alone: the player/owner of the game wants to see it happen.

Some things are harder to mod in than others. I foresee some issues with keeping Bethany alive as a mage Hawke, because the game is written in such a way that Carver is supposed to be alive and not Bethany. I would encourage modders to first go for an alternative: both survive. The sibling that is supposed to die does make it through and decides to keep close to his/her mother, but even that can cause issues later on.

Regardless. to the OP, no it can not be done in the game, but you can mod it in if you want to. I hope a whizzkid will eventually create a mod in which both survive, but that the cutscenes of the siblings still make sense. So I guess sometimes Bethany/Carver will be an option and at other times, they won't.

Oh and uhm, about the lore/reasoning to be able to keep them alive? Well, there's at least one mage and sometimes even two. Some already learned Spirit Healing can go a long way . The possibilities are endless.

Modifié par Mystical80, 09 avril 2011 - 02:39 .

[Mystical80]

I found this on Youtube. Granted it's not exactly the same as the situation of the OP and it would only work on the PC version of the game, but you may be able to get her back this way.

The link:

On a side note: Bioware, may I suggest doing something for the siblings (Bethany/Carver) as DLC? Bethany's popularity seems to be an unexpected surprise for you all.

Edit: now with a working link

Modifié par Mystical80, 09 avril 2011 - 02:03 .

[Tommy6860]

You can do it on PC with the console command.

[F-C]

or you can modify your save file and replace carver with bethany.


while bethany isnt exactly a shining star of personality... she is miles better than the constant whining and complaining that carver does.

if he was my brother id be mean as crap to him just so he would toughen up, i mean really.

[Mystical80]

F-C wrote...

if he was my brother id be mean as crap to him just so he would toughen up, i mean really.

Or you could let loose someone like Isabella on him. The party banter between the two is hilarious.