82 réponses à ce sujet

[Hathur]

Borcth wrote...

DX!! in DA2 is not all that great. Here's why: Look carefully at their feet. Tessellation is making their feet sink into the ground.. Looks like that wasnt calculated *lol* Bioware why!? What's happening is that tessellation is being added after the fact. DA2 uses the Aurora engine which still has partical collisions. Things merge into another like hair or pieces of armor. We've all seen it.When it's activated the ground is "bumped up" however the engine is not compensating for this, hence why it looks like they're sinking. After further study and talking to others, tessellation isnt that great- in this game. So you guys who are fretting over DX11, like I was at first, dont'. DX10 is all you really need to make the game shine.

Can you imagine turning it on and your feet sink everywhere. Terrain looks great, but not your feet! Only to end up turning it off. Buzz kill!

Nice catch on the tesellation... yeah that's definitely really irritating to look at... just like how every video game is incapable of rendering a person standing on a slope (their toes always clip through the slope if they are facing up the slope.... or float a few inches off the ground if facing down the slope... no game has ever been able to make human feet sit properly on ground... screw enhanced lighting tech... I want to see tech that shows a character's feet connecting properly with ground, sloped ground... and stairs... don't get me started on stairs hehe

[Borcth]

Hathur wrote...

Borcth wrote...

DX!! in DA2 is not all that great. Here's why: Look carefully at their feet. Tessellation is making their feet sink into the ground.. Looks like that wasnt calculated *lol* Bioware why!? What's happening is that tessellation is being added after the fact. DA2 uses the Aurora engine which still has partical collisions. Things merge into another like hair or pieces of armor. We've all seen it.When it's activated the ground is "bumped up" however the engine is not compensating for this, hence why it looks like they're sinking. After further study and talking to others, tessellation isnt that great- in this game. So you guys who are fretting over DX11, like I was at first, dont'. DX10 is all you really need to make the game shine.

Can you imagine turning it on and your feet sink everywhere. Terrain looks great, but not your feet! Only to end up turning it off. Buzz kill!

Nice catch on the tesellation... yeah that's definitely really irritating to look at... just like how every video game is incapable of rendering a person standing on a slope (their toes always clip through the slope if they are facing up the slope.... or float a few inches off the ground if facing down the slope... no game has ever been able to make human feet sit properly on ground... screw enhanced lighting tech... I want to see tech that shows a character's feet connecting properly with ground, sloped ground... and stairs... don't get me started on stairs hehe

I've provided photos in that post btw if you wanna look back. I was looking forwad to tessellation being really cool. And it is...in general, if its implemented right. But looks like in DA2, it was after the game was pretty much done and not at the begining from the ground up.

[Rimfrost]

what happened to the 2nd blog post from BioWare. I've been looking forward to seeing the official DX11 version from the released code.

[Borcth]

IMO, the only added value is an extra light source and soft faded shadows. But I can live w/o that. DX10 seems to give you 90 percent of all that anyway. I just really feel sorry for the DX9 gamers who cant enjoy what we'll be enjoying visually.

From seeing the demo, All the DX11 features are automatically enabled via Very High setting. So unlike a game like Metro 2033 where you can turn tessellation on/ off but still have the softt shadows or added light source enabled, you will not be able to. It's either ALL ON or ALL OFF. It's too bad. But makes me relieved that I now dont have to go and buy a new video card for the moment. *lol* My GTX260 will do just nicely.

Modifié par Borcth, 02 mars 2011 - 09:07 .

[Rimfrost]

I'm still holding out hope that the Demo was unoptimized for DX11 and that the results will be better. well actually as I really want to play natively on the mac I guess I should hope that DX11 features (which I assume won't make it to the Mac) is not all that good so that I don't feel a need to boor into win7

[Borcth]

Rimfrost wrote...

I'm still holding out hope that the Demo was unoptimized for DX11 and that the results will be better. well actually as I really want to play natively on the mac I guess I should hope that DX11 features (which I assume won't make it to the Mac) is not all that good so that I don't feel a need to boor into win7

Look at the previous page at the very bottom. I posted pics of DX11 vs DX10 with ...interesting points. The DX11 features for the game were not implemented well. So as long as you got DX10 amigo, you'll be alright!

[Borcth]

Rimfrost wrote...

what happened to the 2nd blog post from BioWare. I've been looking forward to seeing the official DX11 version from the released code.

Yea me too, but I've given up at this point. It's too close to the game's release for any new information IMO. Unless they can come up with an explination for the feet sinking into the ground, I'm holding steadfast to DX10 features and not DX11.

[Rimfrost]

Here's hoping the mac version gets to the DX10 level. Thanks for pointing out the pictures.

That said perhaps DX11 will create some cool special effects that DX10 won't handle... And I'm not sure how annoying the feet sinking into the ground will really be. It looks bad on still pictures but when moving around I wonder if it's noticeable.

Still I agree that it looks like DX11 was mostly an after thought

[Huntress]

.. Do the faces looks different in DX9 then DX11??

To me is more important looking at people faces, eyes, hair ect, than boots.
Do the eyes improve? my comp uses DX9 and the eyes are so HUGE.. do the eyes get better in DX11?

[Rimfrost]

The demo for me run much better in DX11 mode and one thing I noticed was that the shadowing seemed to work better for Cassandra's expression (still a little off when she gave the puppy eyes).

So to me it looked like higher settings seemed to do shadowing etc better. That said I have no idea what DX11 on the demo really did, for me the game was stuttering under DX9 so I didn't play with it much

[Borcth]

Huntress wrote...

.. Do the faces looks different in DX9 then DX11??

To me is more important looking at people faces, eyes, hair ect, than boots.
Do the eyes improve? my comp uses DX9 and the eyes are so HUGE.. do the eyes get better in DX11?

There's a jump from DX9 to DX10 it seems on models. It's not like OMG, AMAZING. But it's enough to make you wish you had DX10 at least IMO. You get alot with DX10. SSAO, higher resolution textures on everything, better shadows, no jaggies.
Clothes are more detailed and less washed out. But from DX10 to DX11, no. DX11 just addes tessellation to terrain, soft shadows when shadows go away from an object and an extra light source. But Like one poster posted, DX11 seems to be an afterthought. 

Modifié par Borcth, 02 mars 2011 - 09:19 .

[Borcth]

Rimfrost wrote...

The demo for me run much better in DX11 mode and one thing I noticed was that the shadowing seemed to work better for Cassandra's expression (still a little off when she gave the puppy eyes).

So to me it looked like higher settings seemed to do shadowing etc better. That said I have no idea what DX11 on the demo really did, for me the game was stuttering under DX9 so I didn't play with it much

It did nothing. Even though it was enabled, it was not running. Remember a developer posted that DX11 features were not working right and to leave that feature off.  So even though you had it "on" it wasnt running. The retail version will look way better when most of the stuff is turned on.

[Rimfrost]

(yes I'm bumping this so that the Dev's post their DX11 blog post. I wanna see more pretty pictures showing the PC version running on good HW settings).

It will be interesting to compare where the Mac version ends up. How much of the DX10 stuff can they import? It's very cool and I'm grateful to BioWare for releasing the Mac version on the same DVD and since I can run win7 as well it will be interesting to compare.

If what's being shown here is true then DX11 will not be that important

[Drasill]

I'm glad that high res is DX11 only. I don't like it when devs cater to people who hold technology back with their refusal to upgrade.

[Saibh]

Borcth wrote...

DX11 in DA2 is not all that great. Here's why: Look carefully at their feet. Tessellation is making their feet sink into the ground.. Looks like that wasnt calculated *lol* Bioware why!? What's happening is that tessellation is being added after the fact. DA2 uses the Aurora engine which still has partical collisions. Things merge into another like hair or pieces of armor. We've all seen it.When it's activated the ground is "bumped up" however the engine is not compensating for this, hence why it looks like they're sinking. After further study and talking to others, tessellation isnt that great- in this game. So you guys who are fretting over DX11, like I was at first, dont'. DX10 is all you really need to make the game shine.

Can you imagine turning it on and your feet sink everywhere. Terrain looks great, but not your feet! Only to end up turning it off. Buzz kill!

It could be because, in order to get identical shots, they had to pause the game, switch on DX11, turn back, and since the game was still frozen, she didn't bump back onto the texture. Possibly. I don't know.

Modifié par Saibh, 02 mars 2011 - 09:24 .

[Hathur]

Huntress wrote...

.. Do the faces looks different in DX9 then DX11??

To me is more important looking at people faces, eyes, hair ect, than boots.
Do the eyes improve? my comp uses DX9 and the eyes are so HUGE.. do the eyes get better in DX11?

The technology in directX 10 / 11 has no bearing over things like texture quality (how sharp, crisp & clear armor looks, skin, hair, the ground, etc).

The features from DX 10 / 11 add improved lighting effects, improved tech for more belieavable shadows, certain particle effects and various other things... but as for how clear the faces / eyes are, it won't have any bearing on that.

Where it may have a bearing on your character is in certain environements where light passes across your character's face / body... DX 10 & 11 can make the lightning & shadows look somewhat more natural, so that might impact how your character looks in that particular scene.

Frankly, I sitll don't see enougn merits in DX 10 or 11 to be particularly crazy about them over DX 9.0c... I have 2 gaming rigs, one with WinXP (and thus restricted to DirectX9) and another with Win7 with a decent DX11 capable video card. The very few games that even utilize DX 10 & 11 don't look all that more impressive over the DX 9 versions... and also one must consider that the DX 9 versions have significantly smoother frame rates since you don't need a top tier PC to render all those fancy new features.

I personally prefer to run a game at a reliable 60 frames per second in DirectX 9 than a to run at 30-40 frames per second in DX 11.... you need a pretty hefty PC & video card to render all those extra features without frame rate loss.

Not much point getting improved lighting effects, tesellation on the ground, etc if it means you're running below 30fps... might as well watch a slideshow.

[Borcth]

Rimfrost wrote...

(yes I'm bumping this so that the Dev's post their DX11 blog post. I wanna see more pretty pictures showing the PC version running on good HW settings).

It will be interesting to compare where the Mac version ends up. How much of the DX10 stuff can they import? It's very cool and I'm grateful to BioWare for releasing the Mac version on the same DVD and since I can run win7 as well it will be interesting to compare.

If what's being shown here is true then DX11 will not be that important

I wouldnt worry. I think bioware has ya covered on this. I'm sure the PC and MAC version will be on par with each other. I'm sure all the DX10 features are on the MAC version as well. As long as you got a DX10+card, you should be in the clear.

[Borcth]

Drasill wrote...

I'm glad that high res is DX11 only. I don't like it when devs cater to people who hold technology back with their refusal to upgrade.

Well Very High is DX11. High is still DX10 and up.

Modifié par Borcth, 02 mars 2011 - 09:25 .

[Borcth]

Saibh wrote...

Borcth wrote...

DX11 in DA2 is not all that great. Here's why: Look carefully at their feet. Tessellation is making their feet sink into the ground.. Looks like that wasnt calculated *lol* Bioware why!? What's happening is that tessellation is being added after the fact. DA2 uses the Aurora engine which still has partical collisions. Things merge into another like hair or pieces of armor. We've all seen it.When it's activated the ground is "bumped up" however the engine is not compensating for this, hence why it looks like they're sinking. After further study and talking to others, tessellation isnt that great- in this game. So you guys who are fretting over DX11, like I was at first, dont'. DX10 is all you really need to make the game shine.

Can you imagine turning it on and your feet sink everywhere. Terrain looks great, but not your feet! Only to end up turning it off. Buzz kill!

It could be because, in order to get identical shots, they had to pause the game, switch on DX11, turn back, and since the game was still frozen, she didn't bump back onto the texture. Possibly. I don't know.

Mmm..doubt it. Because in different shots the character has moved to different locations. I know what you mean freezing and changing modes and such. But I doubt if you move your guy will suddently pop out of the ground. Pretty sure tessellation was nerfed in this game. Wudnt matter if he/she moved 5 feet or not. If it worked right, it wouldnt matter I think.

[TheRaggyGandalf]

magicwins wrote...

What do the 'aus' and 'an' mean in these pictures?

aus is off, an is on

[Borcth]

Hathur wrote...

Huntress wrote...

.. Do the faces looks different in DX9 then DX11??

To me is more important looking at people faces, eyes, hair ect, than boots.
Do the eyes improve? my comp uses DX9 and the eyes are so HUGE.. do the eyes get better in DX11?

The technology in directX 10 / 11 has no bearing over things like texture quality (how sharp, crisp & clear armor looks, skin, hair, the ground, etc).

The features from DX 10 / 11 add improved lighting effects, improved tech for more belieavable shadows, certain particle effects and various other things... but as for how clear the faces / eyes are, it won't have any bearing on that.

Where it may have a bearing on your character is in certain environements where light passes across your character's face / body... DX 10 & 11 can make the lightning & shadows look somewhat more natural, so that might impact how your character looks in that particular scene.

Frankly, I sitll don't see enougn merits in DX 10 or 11 to be particularly crazy about them over DX 9.0c... I have 2 gaming rigs, one with WinXP (and thus restricted to DirectX9) and another with Win7 with a decent DX11 capable video card. The very few games that even utilize DX 10 & 11 don't look all that more impressive over the DX 9 versions... and also one must consider that the DX 9 versions have significantly smoother frame rates since you don't need a top tier PC to render all those fancy new features.

I personally prefer to run a game at a reliable 60 frames per second in DirectX 9 than a to run at 30-40 frames per second in DX 11.... you need a pretty hefty PC & video card to render all those extra features without frame rate loss.

Not much point getting improved lighting effects, tesellation on the ground, etc if it means you're running below 30fps... might as well watch a slideshow.

Actually if you look clsoely in this link  You'll see that extra detail and depth is added to the clothing when you go from DX9 to 10. Also, the shadow on the ground goes from jaggy rougnness to sharp and smoth. Its like putting on a new pair of reading glasses and everything is sharper and cleaner looking.

[Rimfrost]

Hathur wrote...

Huntress wrote...

.. Do the faces looks different in DX9 then DX11??

To me is more important looking at people faces, eyes, hair ect, than boots.
Do the eyes improve? my comp uses DX9 and the eyes are so HUGE.. do the eyes get better in DX11?

The technology in directX 10 / 11 has no bearing over things like texture quality (how sharp, crisp & clear armor looks, skin, hair, the ground, etc).

The features from DX 10 / 11 add improved lighting effects, improved tech for more belieavable shadows, certain particle effects and various other things... but as for how clear the faces / eyes are, it won't have any bearing on that.

Where it may have a bearing on your character is in certain environements where light passes across your character's face / body... DX 10 & 11 can make the lightning & shadows look somewhat more natural, so that might impact how your character looks in that particular scene.

Frankly, I sitll don't see enougn merits in DX 10 or 11 to be particularly crazy about them over DX 9.0c... I have 2 gaming rigs, one with WinXP (and thus restricted to DirectX9) and another with Win7 with a decent DX11 capable video card. The very few games that even utilize DX 10 & 11 don't look all that more impressive over the DX 9 versions... and also one must consider that the DX 9 versions have significantly smoother frame rates since you don't need a top tier PC to render all those fancy new features.

I personally prefer to run a game at a reliable 60 frames per second in DirectX 9 than a to run at 30-40 frames per second in DX 11.... you need a pretty hefty PC & video card to render all those extra features without frame rate loss.

Not much point getting improved lighting effects, tesellation on the ground, etc if it means you're running below 30fps... might as well watch a slideshow.

Thanks for the summary. To me from what I've seen of DX11 (or 10) I agree that it mostly at this point seem to be marketing. And in the end for a game like DA2 the texture packs are probably the most imporant aspects followed by shadowing.

[Hathur]

Borcth wrote...

Hathur wrote...

Huntress wrote...

.. Do the faces looks different in DX9 then DX11??

To me is more important looking at people faces, eyes, hair ect, than boots.
Do the eyes improve? my comp uses DX9 and the eyes are so HUGE.. do the eyes get better in DX11?

The technology in directX 10 / 11 has no bearing over things like texture quality (how sharp, crisp & clear armor looks, skin, hair, the ground, etc).

The features from DX 10 / 11 add improved lighting effects, improved tech for more belieavable shadows, certain particle effects and various other things... but as for how clear the faces / eyes are, it won't have any bearing on that.

Where it may have a bearing on your character is in certain environements where light passes across your character's face / body... DX 10 & 11 can make the lightning & shadows look somewhat more natural, so that might impact how your character looks in that particular scene.

Frankly, I sitll don't see enougn merits in DX 10 or 11 to be particularly crazy about them over DX 9.0c... I have 2 gaming rigs, one with WinXP (and thus restricted to DirectX9) and another with Win7 with a decent DX11 capable video card. The very few games that even utilize DX 10 & 11 don't look all that more impressive over the DX 9 versions... and also one must consider that the DX 9 versions have significantly smoother frame rates since you don't need a top tier PC to render all those fancy new features.

I personally prefer to run a game at a reliable 60 frames per second in DirectX 9 than a to run at 30-40 frames per second in DX 11.... you need a pretty hefty PC & video card to render all those extra features without frame rate loss.

Not much point getting improved lighting effects, tesellation on the ground, etc if it means you're running below 30fps... might as well watch a slideshow.

Actually if you look clsoely in this link  You'll see that extra detail and depth is added to the clothing when you go from DX9 to 10. Also, the shadow on the ground goes from jaggy rougnness to sharp and smoth. Its like putting on a new pair of reading glasses and everything is sharper and cleaner looking.

The shadow issue is obviously related to DX 10 / 11, as stated that's one of the things DX 10 / 11 does better than DX 9... as for the cloth textures, that's just Bioware being douchy and not allowing us an option to choose texture quality in the demo... the DX 9 version of their game forces us to use lower resolution textures and the DX 10 / 11 forces up the texture resolution... this is NOT a DX 10 / 11 feature, but Bioware assuming all their consumers are morons and incapable of selecting advanced video options to control simple things like texture resolution. 

Frankly it seems to be a minor miracle they allow us to select screen resolution at all anymore, rather than tying that to a preset video quality selector.

[The_Wonder_of_Thedas]

BounceDK wrote...

With OpenGL, everyone could be playing with DX11 graphics, even on Windows XP.

Do elaborate.

[apoc_reg]

the problem with the porridge feet could very well be fixed.

Remember the demo (while having the option available) didn't function in DX11 so depending what build the german site has this could have already been fixed as BW said DX11 is working good in the final release build.

In the demo it had missing effects, problems with black triangle texture blocks on the floor and serious performance drops when DX11 is activated.