259 réponses à ce sujet

[Maconbar]

Zigzaggy wrote...

Ryngard wrote...

The ONLY difference in the combat mechanics is that instead of a boring auto-attack, you have to click for the basic attack. That's it. Everything else is identical.

The brief snippet of dialog, RPing, story, and setting is great in my opinion and I fail to see how it is any different than in DA:O.

I think some of you are stuck on the past game and are upset it isn't an exact carbon copy.

I hear you.

Origins was a more mature game .The writing had depth and gave profound  meaning to your choices(so much so that you would replay the level to get it right).A little more than "hey there's some darkspawn..running would be a good choice" "an Apostate grr let me kill" "These people helped us darling calm down" " My apologies Sir , you have my sword until we are out of danger, then more grrr "

That's just bad bad bad.

If BW showed more of the story then they would be spoiling things. I imagine that they edited the demo so that choices really weren't much of an issue.

[Dan_cw]

Bendok wrote...

It's hard to judge the demo since it jumps you around a lot and obviously is skipping a lot of stuff. I am actually pretty shocked bioware did a demo for the game because I think a game like this is really hard to demo. While the OP's tone wasn't very helpful and makes any valid points he had completely lost, I do agree with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. I truly loved playing DA, and I hope once I get to play DA2 I love it just as much. I can't really judge anything based on the demo but I will say that archery felt a lot better and melee was a lot more visceral - these are good things as long as the main aspects of DA that made it so great weren't sacrificed on the altar of cool looking combat.

Thing is, if we apply the 'if it ain't broke, doesnt fix it' mentality to the game, we'd still get the same complaints and trolling. BioWare really can't win either way.

And while this isn't aimed at you, I'd again like to remind people you don't have mash buttons in the full version of the console release.

[brownybrown]

I think it might turn out ok, needs a tool kit so some mods can fix some things up - silly sized weapons, take out isabella's pierced? chin thing, all very doable I think.

. Not that keen on the dialogue wheel but that's life I guess. Ill learn to live with it.

If not ...what are us rpg pc lovers to do? Witcher- also must play a certain character with no character creation(i assume) so its TES Skyrim or bust huh

[Moondoggie]

Zigzaggy wrote...

I hear you.

Origins was a more mature game .The writing had depth and gave profound  meaning to your choices(so much so that you would replay the level to get it right).A little more than "hey there's some darkspawn..running would be a good choice" "an Apostate grr let me kill" "These people helped us darling calm down" " My apologies Sir , you have my sword until we are out of danger, then more grrr "

That's just bad bad bad.

You are comparing a  full game to a demo. Not really a fair comparison is it? Some of the dialogue in Origins was incredibly juvinile and immature. What about all those lame Ohgren fart jokes? The Templar who won't let you cross to the mage tower? His dialogue was straight out of a disney film. Just because some of the dialougue sucks doesn't mean the whole game will suck. How do you know how mature DA II will be just from the demo? You have yet to see any actual profound choices just a couple of battles and a snippet of dialogue. If you play the full game decide it sucks and come back to review it go for it.

But try to at least have a fair comparison.

[Leonick91]

LyonVanguard wrote...

Why would they cut that which was so good about the first one? The multiple story lines. Most of us got into DA:O because of the story, not because of the combat. Lets face it, the combat was terrible. So, they cut that which people found good about the first one but improved upon that which people didn't care about. I don't wan't to play a hack-n-slash game, there are allot of other games to choose from for that. DA:O was original, and they took away the originality. I never thought I would say this about a Bioware game, but I am honestly not looking forward to this game's release.

Multiple storylines? Yea first 20 minutes during your origin then it's the same with a few branching paths/choices, they did away with the origins and gave us a more developed main character (that can talk!) and will have more paths/choices and ending for the main plot, how is that not an improvment?

As for the combat it's still the same style as DAO, at least on PC, the console version is a hack-n-slash, true, but i don't know how the original was on console so can't compare those

[IKEAboy2006]

I couldn't bring myself to play any further than 5 mins into it.

swiftly removed from my Xbox 360's HD.

Modifié par IKEAboy2006, 23 février 2011 - 12:47 .

[Pauravi]

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

the dialogue wheel does feel a bit restricting in that I can only choose 3 options or more of the emotion I'm going to express what I'm going to say and how I'm going to say it rather than actually choosing what I say.

Just IMO, but it seems like that is the more important part to me.
Since you don't have control over what the words actually say you are never going to be able to say exactly what you want anyway.  So when you're reading down the dialogue options in DAO, isn't the emotion really what you're looking for when you read it?  If Leliana asks me something and it gives me 5 options, 2 of them are likely to be questions, and 3 of them are probably mean/nice/neutral responses.  There is a 99% chance that none of them say exactly what I'd want to if I were the character, so I'm really just looking for (if I'm romancing her) "which one is the nice one?", or "which one is the flirty one?".  And then half of the dialogue options lead to the same place anyway.

The wheel does the exact same thing, they just make it so that you don't have to decipher what the line is trying to convey (which isn't always easy) -- they give you the little "mood ring".

[Dan_cw]

Leon,

Again, you can play the sequel the same way as Origins on the consoles.

I wish BioWare would sticky a thread on the topic or something... and I don't know why they didn't have the auto-attack toggle enabled in the demo.

I would hope that it would have stopped all of the devil may cry/hack and slash complaints/trolling... well, I can hope anyway.

Modifié par Dan_cw, 23 février 2011 - 12:48 .

[bloodreaperfx]

mcpothead wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

mcpothead wrote...

attack>attack>attack watch over the top animation attack>attack>pointless **** dialogue > attack attack BORING

Go play devil may cry that whats this game is a poor copy off

kthxbai

Are you 5 years old or just not been to school? 

Considering they should teach manners in school, I would ask the same about you.

"I dont like what you like, you're all retards"

See what I did there?

[bloodreaperfx]

Inarborat wrote...

Ah, the good old "clinging to nostalgia" and "fearful of change" criticisms.  Look, I doubt you'll find anyone that will claim Origins is perfect.  There's a difference between neutering and improving.  When you cut out features instead of improving them then yeah, expect people to voice their opinion.  DA:O had an old school feel so why throw that completely out?  We already got the streamlining action oriented approach with Mass Effect (which sold worse than DA:O if I what heard is correct?)  so why can't we keep that same feel that Origins had but revamped and improved?

I know the Bioware Defense Force will never understand that because everything Bioware puts out is absolutely flawless and beyond criticism.

I've played Bioware games for the combat and the story.  If I just want a story, I'll watch a movie or read a book which are much, much better ways to tell a story.

While I partialy agree with what you said, how is a movie/book "interactive storytelling" ? Since thats what most RPG's are. I, for one, like to choose my own story within the limits of the game's universe. How can I do that with a book? (not that I bash books, since I've done alot of reading myself.)

[Zigzaggy]

Moondoggie wrote...

How anyone can say the combat is worse in DAII i don't know. All it was in DAO was click,attack,wait for it to die,click on next enemy watching a sigle slash animation or bow attack or mage pew pew/pokey stick attack. At least they improved that and made the battles exciting to watch.

 

Maybe people are commenting on the fact the combat is worse..because it is.Ever just thought people could have a point?

If all you did was click attack in Origins tanking, I'm guessing your journey ended repetatively.

I accept that in your opinion the fighting was uninteresting if thats how you played it.But what i found remarkable was the fact Bioware created the blood & sweat of real fighting.You gained a real sense of effort in the character wielding a large sword.Felt the fatigue as you parry with shield.Had the stuffing knocked out of you with knockdown.Sword on sword clash numbed you to the bone.In order to prevail you had to pause and chose when to shield bash...when to use fast attacks and when to use more force.

I got none of this intensity from the fighting in the demo.When you were flung 20 yrds by the ogre ..you were instantly up and sliding in for more hack n slash.
The dialogue and character interaction could have saved it, as fans we all enjoy Bioware efforts in creating a good story...sadly it didn't.

The game feels like it was really rushed together,maybe they just didn't have enough time in development to actually do the game justice.

[Koiruoho]

Inarborat wrote...

Ah, the good old "clinging to nostalgia" and "fearful of change" criticisms.  Look, I doubt you'll find anyone that will claim Origins is perfect.  There's a difference between neutering and improving.  When you cut out features instead of improving them then yeah, expect people to voice their opinion.  DA:O had an old school feel so why throw that completely out?  We already got the streamlining action oriented approach with Mass Effect (which sold worse than DA:O if I what heard is correct?)  so why can't we keep that same feel that Origins had but revamped and improved?

I know the Bioware Defense Force will never understand that because everything Bioware puts out is absolutely flawless and beyond criticism.

I've played Bioware games for the combat and the story.  If I just want a story, I'll watch a movie or read a book which are much, much better ways to tell a story.

Funny how you can act condescending about "the old criticisms" and then turn right around and start sputtering garbage about how everyone who disagrees with you has to have a vested interest in defending Bioware's honor.

[Zigzaggy]

Inarborat wrote...

Ah, the good old "clinging to nostalgia" and "fearful of change" criticisms.  Look, I doubt you'll find anyone that will claim Origins is perfect.  There's a difference between neutering and improving.  When you cut out features instead of improving them then yeah, expect people to voice their opinion.  DA:O had an old school feel so why throw that completely out?  We already got the streamlining action oriented approach with Mass Effect (which sold worse than DA:O if I what heard is correct?)  so why can't we keep that same feel that Origins had but revamped and improved?

I know the Bioware Defense Force will never understand that because everything Bioware puts out is absolutely flawless and beyond criticism.

I've played Bioware games for the combat and the story.  If I just want a story, I'll watch a movie or read a book which are much, much better ways to tell a story.

Very good. Articulated it a little better than I did but in defence the demo left me bemused and angry.

[Teknor]

DAO, a tactical RPG ? Lol.

[scr280]

Zigzaggy wrote...

Ryngard wrote...

The ONLY difference in the combat mechanics is that instead of a boring auto-attack, you have to click for the basic attack. That's it. Everything else is identical.

The brief snippet of dialog, RPing, story, and setting is great in my opinion and I fail to see how it is any different than in DA:O.

I think some of you are stuck on the past game and are upset it isn't an exact carbon copy.

I hear you.

Origins was a more mature game .The writing had depth and gave profound  meaning to your choices(so much so that you would replay the level to get it right).A little more than "hey there's some darkspawn..running would be a good choice" "an Apostate grr let me kill" "These people helped us darling calm down" " My apologies Sir , you have my sword until we are out of danger, then more grrr "

That's just bad bad bad.

Depth to your choices? it was like "Become a grey warden" "Why?" "Because I said so" "Lets kill darkspawn" "Ok Logain come helps man" and he was like " k thx bai" and calin was like" FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"Then you go do some **** like choose to help the elves or kill them for s**ts and giggles same with the mages. Then you choose who goes on the throne but it doesnt realy matter as it doesnt change anything about the game realy.

[Moondoggie]

Inarborat wrote...

Ah, the good old "clinging to nostalgia" and "fearful of change" criticisms.  Look, I doubt you'll find anyone that will claim Origins is perfect.  There's a difference between neutering and improving.  When you cut out features instead of improving them then yeah, expect people to voice their opinion.  DA:O had an old school feel so why throw that completely out?  We already got the streamlining action oriented approach with Mass Effect (which sold worse than DA:O if I what heard is correct?)  so why can't we keep that same feel that Origins had but revamped and improved?

I know the Bioware Defense Force will never understand that because everything Bioware puts out is absolutely flawless and beyond criticism.

I've played Bioware games for the combat and the story.  If I just want a story, I'll watch a movie or read a book which are much, much better ways to tell a story.

I remember when Origins came out and people were like "This isn't like Baldur's gate! i hate it!" it's an unfortunate symptom of when a company has a successfull game everyone wants to compare their new work to that and since they view the previous work with a sense of nostalgia and rose tinted specs they fear change and don't want to accept the new game.

They took a new approach to combat animation to make it more dynamic instead of slow sluggish animation. The rest is all pretty much the same as in Origins you can set tactics and pause the game to issue orders to your party. I really cannot see why people are getting worked up they are just picking faults even though the games are very similar. I guess like Origins a few months after it comes out people will be singing it's praises though you get a few who are stuck in the past and want every game to play like the RPG's they played as a kid.

Unfortunately that time has passed and i love Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate II as much as anyone else who played those games but i also like to see progress from developers and a more modern take on the RPG instead of just playing something that looks like what i played years ago with nicer graphics.

Oh and you're wrong Mass Effect 2 outsold DAO.

[tez19]

IKEAboy2006 wrote...

I couldn't bring myself to play any further than 5 mins into it.

swiftly removed from my Xbox 360's HD.

then GTFO of these forums instead of trolling in every thread. Is your life that bad and boring that you have to come onto a forum to say how bad a game is. Go to a games forum you are looking forward to and get more info on it and GTFO of these forums with your whining. Or is it that you want someone to pay you some attention little boy?

Modifié par tez19, 23 février 2011 - 01:03 .

[Teknor]

tez19 wrote...

then GTFO of these forums instead of trolling in every thread. Is your life that bad and boring that you have to come onto a forum to say how bad a game is. Go to a games forum you are looking forward to and get more info on it and GTFO of these forums with your whining. Or is it that you want someone to pay you some attention little boy?

Don't get angry. 

[Dan_cw]

Just so people know as well...

You're not going to see dialog choices etc. having much if any effect the first few minutes in the game, especially in a demo... I mean, the story jumps around and the introduction to Kirkwall will be in the full game. See how Hawke etc. go from level 3 - 6 as well.

There's a reason the game has a narrative that spans several years as well... perhaps wait and see how choices pan out in the full game...?

And for the record, I wasn't too impressed with the way choices played out in Origins (in terms of actual consequences outside of a few). The consequences mainly came in the epilogue slides.

Modifié par Dan_cw, 23 février 2011 - 01:05 .

[Shinimas]

Ollys wrote...

combat intensity. (not the speed/animations, mind you. A big sword is
slow, like in DAO, not something you hack about with like a fly
swatter.)

Gameplay>realism.
2-handed warrior in DAO were useless. Because of slow attack speed that fail at dps, as they fail in all other roles. Now with Sonic speed they can be usefull party members and all enemies all enemies won't be dead by the mage aoe spells, while warrior only brings a sword for first blow.

A big sword is never slow, because such weapons are useless. I just have to say it, being a historical fencer myself, can't ignore this stuff.

[wolfsite]

Everyone has an opinion and they are entitled to it.

However I do feel that the combat is a step up compared to DA:O.

In DA:O I ran into a number of glitches and problems that made combat more tedious and drawn out rather than fun and tactical.

-Several times I would move a character out of range of an attack yet they would still get hit by that attack (as well as any follow-ups if the attack stunned)  best example I can use was fighting loghain, Loghain would attack empty space and I would get stunned then he would continue to attack empty space and I get killed.

- Many times when a Party character ran at an enemy and the enemy would run at them to attack the party character would just get stuck in a running animation when they collided then the monster would get 2 or 3 free attacks.

- Party members sometimes just stood there and did nothing requiring to constantly switch between characters and double check tactics to make sure they do what they are supposed to do.

- Mages would get stuck onto the controlled character. EG: I would command a mage to walk away from the fight then cast spells from there yet after they walk over to the spot they would return to the controlled character and end up getting killed (meaning again having to constantly check the tactics and switching characters to make sure they did what they were told or what was in the tactics slots).

- Party members dancing around a target trying to find a free space to occupy for an attack was also annoying.


So honestly comparing this to the DA2 demo, it's a pretty big step up.

[tez19]

Teknor wrote...

tez19 wrote...

then GTFO of these forums instead of trolling in every thread. Is your life that bad and boring that you have to come onto a forum to say how bad a game is. Go to a games forum you are looking forward to and get more info on it and GTFO of these forums with your whining. Or is it that you want someone to pay you some attention little boy?

Don't get angry. 

I do not understand people that do not like games and then turn up on their forums moaning moaning moaning and more moaning. I am here to get as much info as i can on a game i am really looking forward too. If i did not like the look of this game i wouldn't waste my time complaining about it. I guess i must just have a more interesting life then people on here complaining.

[bl00drequiem]

Silain wrote...

I might be able to live with the combat intensity. (not the speed/animations, mind you. A big sword is slow, like in DAO, not something you hack about with like a fly swatter.)

Lol, you need to check out some actual medieval fencing my friend. The sword may be big, but that doesn't mean its slow. Wielded by a person of average strength, sure, it's going to be slow, but you need to have above average strength to properly wield a blade of that size effectively. Fact is, a person properly trained, and suitably strong enough can be frighteningly fast with them Agreed its not quite as fast as portrayed in the demo... but its a game. The tempo in DAO wasn't right either lol.

ANYWAY, a couple points, first, as far the story/dialogue... we only get to see roughly what...? 20 minutes or so of actual gameplay? I don't think you can make overly harsh judgements based on that alone. It's to give a little taste, not to provide a fully immersive experience. We don't get that till the 8th of next month:P

Second, I found the change in combat tempo a vast improvment. Yes, it has a bit of a hack 'n slash pace, but overall, the combat was more challenging, I can definitely see how you will be required to do a lot more pause and play, and tactics scripting at higher difficulties, taking advantage of the cross-class combos, using character positioning to your advantage... and actually thinking. I loved DA:O, don't get me wrong, but lets be honest,  its not a straight up tactical RPG, and it never was, so it find it odd when people blather on about that. To me, the combat in DA:O, particularly on the console version, always felt extremely awkward. I mean, the whole bloody shuffling bit... it was awful. I believe it was stated flat out as well, that on lower level difficulties it would feel more like an action rpg, when it came to combat, and thats not a bad thing. If you want a more tactically focused experience, try... oh I dunno, increasing the game difficulty?

A good idea for the people are leery about the combat changes, check out the new vid that went up on Gamespot last night, I thought it showcased the tactical play quite well.