117 réponses à ce sujet

[lost lupus]

i dont understand the heated discussion here their just elves

[koshindan]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

A poster pointed out above that by turning 5 tricks a day your sex slave pays for herself in a year. After that it's all profit.

Hell, if your slave earns you 10 silver a day, you'll pay it off in less than 3 years. 

Apparently the Dragon Age economics of slave trading aren't as bad as they first seem. >.<

[KenKenpachi]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

Or you could "buy them", free them, and then pay them a living wage to work for you. Or find someone living in poverty and offer them the same. Just because people are poor does not give you license to abuse them, and yes, taking away their freedom is abuse. (God, I had thought moral relativism was dead.)

Actully a very funny and somewhat morbid side note.

One of the Bigest slave Owners (by number of slaves) In North Carolina was a black man.

Who was previously a slave and he owned 60 head.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 23 février 2011 - 04:10 .

[MajorStranger]

I case you didn't know slave in the Roman empire cost about a thousand Denarii to buy. Slaves aren't cheap, they're a powerful working force and they were rarely beaten (A slave with two broken legs aren't that useful you know)

[KenKenpachi]

MajorStranger wrote...

I case you didn't know slave in the Roman empire cost about a thousand Denarii to buy. Slaves aren't cheap, they're a powerful working force and they were rarely beaten (A slave with two broken legs aren't that useful you know)

You have no idea how much backlash you get from black kids when you try to point out Roots is just a movie and not the general norm of the time. Slaves pretty much always have cost a **** load of cash. Its the equal of a sportscar or a milk cow, would you go out and beat the hell out of something that costs you what would be 20-40k today? Most didn't then either, sure you had the random **** that did. In fact some slavery deals worked on a contract bases, such as even beating a slave could result in termination of said contract. And whats funny was that you still found white slaves untill the late/mid 1800's.

Not that I'm trying to say I approve of Slavery, I find it a horrible pratice, but I don't like false drama's in history. Its actully a sad thing you can still find slaves today. Even in modern nations. Praticularly sweat shops, and the sex industry. The again economic dependace is a new form of slavery imo.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 23 février 2011 - 04:38 .

[demonic_cookie]

Not bringing in the real world issues (because we don't have enough of THAT in the game, obviously, what with the elves and all) into it, Hawke is:



1) Fereldan, and in that country slavery is illegal, amoral and against religion (correct me if I'm wrong, but the Fereldan Chantry at least is against slavery, not sure if the Tevinter one is the same).

2) Comes from a family that values freedom more than security and fought all their lives to preserve it.



I highly doubt Hawke would consider owning a slave. Especially since the Alienage is full of cheap elven labor (which sucks, but at least it's not slavery). Of course, maybe he has a Morrigan-like stance on the matter, they're weak so they let themselves be taken => they deserve to be slaves. I believe I do not need to tell you how much that pile of crap stinks.



Also. Just to answer the 'they'll need servants' thing. Hawke's family lived in Lothering in a small house for what, 10 years? They had no way of hiring help then, having neither money nor the security (what if they see papaHawke's magic mumbo-jumbos?). So you betcha Hawkes washed their own damn floors and polished their own armor. And judging from the plot direction the devs told us about, they'll continue doing so for a long time after arrival to Kirkwall.

[The_mango55]

Back on topic, 100 sovereigns is way too much for a single slave. I mean this is they kind of money people buy legendary magical artifacts with. Slaves are valuable, but not that valuable.



Also, despite the fact that it's still prominent today, in a pre-industrial agrarian society a strong male who can work hard in fields or mines would be worth more than a female sex slave. That's one thing that annoyed me about New Vegas, adolescent females were listed as being 2-3 times more valuable than strong males.

[Furistos]

From http://www.unrv.com/...an-slavery.php:

Slaves, however, could be extraordinarily expensive, and the Roman
household slave certainly had a different fate. The price for a male
slave in Rome at the time of Augustus has been quoted at 500 denarii. A
female could go for as much as 6,000 denarii. One recorded price in
Pompeii at 79 AD indicates that a slave sold for 2,500 sestertii or 625
denarii.

Monthly income at that time: http://www.ancientco.../pages/economy/

So yeah, slaves are really that expensive.

[TEWR]

The thing is, as morally corrupt and despicable and outlawed as it is, slavery in Thedas is a great way to make a profit. Look at Loghain, the man who was selling elves into slavery to fund his own war. I'm not saying I condone it, but under the table dealings will continue to happen in Thedas purely out of greed and to keep economy flowing.



Poo's statements however speak truth. If the option of killing the slavers is impossible, the next best thing is to buy them, have them work off the debt, free them and tell them it's up to them. And who knows? Maybe by helping them, they help you. you've scratched their back, maybe they'll scratch your back by giving you some leads on the slavers

[Red Templar]

demonic_cookie wrote...

Not bringing in the real world issues (because we don't have enough of THAT in the game, obviously, what with the elves and all) into it, Hawke is:

1) Fereldan, and in that country slavery is illegal, amoral and against religion (correct me if I'm wrong, but the Fereldan Chantry at least is against slavery, not sure if the Tevinter one is the same).
2) Comes from a family that values freedom more than security and fought all their lives to preserve it.

I highly doubt Hawke would consider owning a slave. Especially since the Alienage is full of cheap elven labor (which sucks, but at least it's not slavery). Of course, maybe he has a Morrigan-like stance on the matter, they're weak so they let themselves be taken => they deserve to be slaves. I believe I do not need to tell you how much that pile of crap stinks.

- There is no such thing as national personality. Fereldan's values aren't necessarily Hawke's values.

- It isn't up to you or I to say what Hawke would consider doing. It is up to every person who plays Hawke to decide where he stands on certain issues in their own playthrough of the game.

[JamesX]

Furistos wrote...

From http://www.unrv.com/...an-slavery.php:

Slaves, however, could be extraordinarily expensive, and the Roman
household slave certainly had a different fate. The price for a male
slave in Rome at the time of Augustus has been quoted at 500 denarii. A
female could go for as much as 6,000 denarii. One recorded price in
Pompeii at 79 AD indicates that a slave sold for 2,500 sestertii or 625
denarii.

Monthly income at that time: http://www.ancientco.../pages/economy/

So yeah, slaves are really that expensive.

Those are trained, broken, docile slaves of certain reputation.  Some are even skilled workers.  Doctors and Lawyers in Romen times often are slaves.  

Go watch Rome the series.

Those are not Fresh Off the Boat Slaves.

And in Roman times the patricians are so rich it is ridiculous.  Their living conditions is completely different than non-citizens or plebs.  An Roman Noble literally give social security payments to entire city of plebs because it is cheaper than getting rid of his slave force.

In Dragon Age the class divide is not nearly as great.  At least from what we glimpse from Dragon Age Origins.

It is akin to saying because some people in our world pay 100 million for a piece of painting, that the black market for Eastern European Women is 1 million each.. and they make that money back for you in a few years (which they might).  A good exotic dancer in the States can make 10,000 in a week easy.

Red Templar wrote...

- There is no such thing as national personality. Fereldan's values aren't necessarily Hawke's values.

National Personality definitely exist.  The "Self-Important Rude" american attitude definitely exist.  But the 2nd part I agree with, just because there is a national personality, it doesn't necessarily means everyone from that country thinks and acts the same way - just most do.

Modifié par JamesX, 23 février 2011 - 06:48 .

[The_mango55]

Furistos wrote...

So yeah, slaves are really that expensive.

A single unskilled slave is more expnesive than some of the most powerful magical equipment in the world?

Look at the value of some of the best items in Origins, 5-10 Sovereigns at most.

Modifié par The_mango55, 23 février 2011 - 06:48 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

The_mango55 wrote...

Furistos wrote...

So yeah, slaves are really that expensive.

A single unskilled slave is more expnesive than some of the most powerful magical equipment in the world?

Look at the value of some of the best items in Origins, 5-10 Sovereigns at most.

Erm.. Wasn't that nice staff in the Circle shop over 100 Sovereigns? And Andruil's Blessing, one of the best belts, was 104 Sovereigns.

EDIT: Staff of the Magister Lord, 128 Sovereigns.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 23 février 2011 - 06:55 .

[Red Templar]

National Personality definitely exist.  The "Self-Important Rude"
american attitude definitely exist.  But the 2nd part I agree with, just
because there is a national personality, it doesn't necessarily means
everyone from that country thinks and acts the same way - just most do.

Nations have cultures. Cultures have stereotypes. Stereotypes are often true. They are also often untrue. The commonality of stereotypes is meaningless to the individual.

Modifié par Red Templar, 23 février 2011 - 06:56 .

[The_mango55]

Yeah I was just looking through the armor and weapons, like Juggernaut armor is valued at 13.5 Sovereigns.



Still "Andruil's Blessing is a legendary belt in Dragon Age: Origins, one of the most powerful in existence."



Is the same price as a single unskilled slave?

[Zalocx]

JamesX wrote...

Red Templar wrote...

- There is no such thing as national personality. Fereldan's values aren't necessarily Hawke's values.

National Personality definitely exist.  The "Self-Important Rude" american attitude definitely exist.  But the 2nd part I agree with, just because there is a national personality, it doesn't necessarily means everyone from that country thinks and acts the same way - just most do.

National personality exists today because NATION STATES exist today. Nationalism and its effects are creations of the 18th century onwards. In a feudal society like Ferelden people like the hawke family who had no vested intrest in the upper echelons of government (i.e. were not top tier nobles) owed aligence to their local lord or land owner. They were awake of a king, but to most peasents the monarch was simply a figurehead who they weould never see, understand, or try to emulate. The "state" with its unified social norms and uniform civic laws simply did not exist in such socities.

[ThatDancingTurian]

The_mango55 wrote...

Yeah I was just looking through the armor and weapons, like Juggernaut armor is valued at 13.5 Sovereigns.

Still "Andruil's Blessing is a legendary belt in Dragon Age: Origins, one of the most powerful in existence."

Is
the same price as a single unskilled slave?

I'd say the value of an entire lifeform to do with as you will would be at least equally as valuable as a belt.

@Red Templar: What's that got to do with the price of elves in Kirkwall? Sorry, I've just been wanting to say that ever since I saw this thread title

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 23 février 2011 - 07:02 .

[Vicious]

As a Tevinter Magister, I would pay huge sums for elves or humans that I can use in blood magic sacrifices to extend my lifespan.

[Wulfram]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
I'd say the value of an entire lifeform to do with as you will would be at least equally as valuable as a belt.

Why?  There are abundant lifeforms, many of whom are not valued at all - in the case of Elves, indeed, their absence would commonly be seen as something to be desired.

Whereas a good belt is rare, and thus precious.

[Red Templar]

National personality exists today because NATION STATES exist today. Nationalism and its effects are creations of the 18th century onwards. In a feudal society like Ferelden people like the hawke family who had no vested intrest in the upper echelons of government (i.e. were not top tier nobles) owed aligence to their local lord or land owner. They were awake of a king, but to most peasents the monarch was simply a figurehead who they weould never see, understand, or try to emulate. The "state" with its unified social norms and uniform civic laws simply did not exist in such socities.

To clarify: what I meant by "there is no such thing as national personality" was "a person's personality is not predetermined by their nationality". Culture influences personality, opinion, and ideology. Where you are born does not dictate what kind of person you are, cultural influence or no.

No need to get engrossed in the term. I think we can all agree that people from the same country can disagree with each other, as well as with the norms of their society.

[Zalocx]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

The_mango55 wrote...

Yeah I was just looking through the armor and weapons, like Juggernaut armor is valued at 13.5 Sovereigns.

Still "Andruil's Blessing is a legendary belt in Dragon Age: Origins, one of the most powerful in existence."

Is
the same price as a single unskilled slave?

I'd say the value of an entire lifeform to do with as you will would be at least equally as valuable as a belt.

By our modern estimation yeah, but in a setting where Elves are second class citizens even in lands where they are free yeah. Remember the 100 coins a head is the market value, the market is most probably Tivinter, the place where slavery is legal and the mage lords could care less for human or elven life. Why would they pay 100 soverigns for a slave when they could buy an artifact staff that they consider to be a much better investment?

[JamesX]

Zalocx wrote...
National personality exists today because NATION STATES exist today. Nationalism and its effects are creations of the 18th century onwards. In a feudal society like Ferelden people like the hawke family who had no vested intrest in the upper echelons of government (i.e. were not top tier nobles) owed aligence to their local lord or land owner. They were awake of a king, but to most peasents the monarch was simply a figurehead who they weould never see, understand, or try to emulate. The "state" with its unified social norms and uniform civic laws simply did not exist in such socities.

So American Indians acted the same as Europeans during middle ages?

Or that a French Men in 1200 is the same as a English Men?

Seriously?  National States happen because people are alike.  WHy is Scotland still consider its own identity when its been subsumed in to the United Kingdoms?

I think you have the relationship backwards.  Forging of Nations does not form a National Identity.  Shared national personality/identity makes the Modern Nations you are referring to possible.  Or else why is Berlin Germany and not French?

[The_mango55]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I'd say the value of an entire lifeform to do with as you will would be at least equally as valuable as a belt.

Supply and demand my good man.

Legendary magic artifacts are rare and almost impossible to make. Humans are made every day.

Vicious wrote...

As a Tevinter Magister, I would pay huge sums for elves or humans that I can use in blood magic sacrifices to extend my lifespan.

You need food to even live out your normal lifespan, but would you pay huge sums for a loaf of bread? With a renewable resource like slaves, if someone tried to sell them for 100 sovereigns, I'd sell them for 50 and take all of his business.

[Nashiktal]

TheSleazebag wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Yea exactly I was like WTF ... but still can Hawke buy a slave for his mansion? Some cute elven maid? ... oh man another mod idea for toolset :>

Ahaha yes slavery is so very cute, as a white middle class man you understand this

Please chop off your ****

See because of this comment I have to mod my game to allow a mansion full of slaves.

Yay! :3

[koshindan]

The_mango55 wrote...

Yeah I was just looking through the armor and weapons, like Juggernaut armor is valued at 13.5 Sovereigns.

Still "Andruil's Blessing is a legendary belt in Dragon Age: Origins, one of the most powerful in existence."

Is the same price as a single unskilled slave?

Arms and Armor seem a bit misrepresented in Dragon Age, especially since it's a time of war when their prices should be inflated through the roof. A legendary belt probably shouldn't be sold at all, much less for 100 gold.

Compare this to the "The Hungry Deserter" quest where you buy him a meal for 10 silver. That's 1000 meals. Nobody's going to sell you the Mona Lisa for a year's worth of meals.