105 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

NtenseGamer,



I think some of the hostility might be due to you comparing DnD to Dragon Age in such a negative way when it's sort of obvious you're not familiar with the system. Many of us have followed BioWare's development for years, and we're aware of just how deep the setting and system is. The reason there are three races for PC (there are non-PC races) is that each race has one or more origin story.



The origin stories are in-depth introductions to the world. They're sort of a 'first chapter' that's different for each one. If they had 8 different races, they wouldn't be able to have all origins as it would be too big of a resource sink. There’s far more emphasis on making the races unique and giving them their own view of the world than in previous computer games. A race is more than +2 to dex.

[NtenseGamer]

Maria Caliban wrote...

NtenseGamer wrote...

With a 4 person party I'm thinking you better not specialize too much. You are going to need a tank, you are going to need a Rogue (Thief) for those duties unless you want to miss out on opening chests, you are going to need a damage dealer (Elemental/Shadow Mage) and you are going to need a healer unless that class has been overlooked (please tell me a healer/buffer is needed if not the old school comparisons stop now and console kids win out), you are talking about a fantasy game staple.

Specializations to not remove a class' ability to perform its primary role, but enhances it. The majority of the time, you'll want to specialize, unless you have a very talent intensive build in mind.

For instance, a regular healer is good, but the spirit healer specialization is better. A rogue can do damage, but with the bard specialization, they can also increase the damage of their allies.

We are still talking vanilla, chocolate, strawberry here. Even if they are "specalized" their role has not changed. Think of all the class types that have been created in the RPG/Fantasy world, The 4 party system will limit this game and has "console" written all over it since party management does not really lend itself to a first person shooter menality. This is not BG3 regardless of the hype.

[JEBesh]

NtenseGamer wrote...

We are still talking vanilla, chocolate, strawberry here. Even if they are "specalized" their role has not changed. Think of all the class types that have been created in the RPG/Fantasy world, The 4 party system will limit this game and has "console" written all over it since party management does not really lend itself to a first person shooter menality. This is not BG3 regardless of the hype.

Spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate =/= BG3. What hype? And yes, the specializations have an effect on your character's role. With the variety in specializations and talents, your character can be specced to the Anti-Mage role, a buffer, a healer, melee DPS, stealth, shapeshifter, melee sufficient mage, ranged DPS, tanking.. You get the picture. The classes are not restricted to one role.

[SheffSteel]

I think perhaps Maria's message isn't getting through because she was too polite.



NtenseGamer, you're getting hostile responses because you're criticising the game while at the same time making it clear that you don't really know what you're talking about.

[Maria Caliban]

It's an olde tyme DnD fan who considers the 4-class standard that DnD created to be too 'console?'

[LaztRezort]

NtenseGamer wrote...

We are still talking vanilla, chocolate, strawberry here.

More like Ice Cream, Cake, and Pie.  Each with lots of flavors.  Quite a lot of possibilities for different good deserts.

Hmmm... I'm suddenly hungry.  I'll be right back...

[SheffSteel]

Some FRP rules systems do perfectly well with no classes whatsoever. I see no problem with breaking down characters into those who can do magic (in this world, a crucial distinction) those whose focus is on fighting and those who emphasise cunning and skill. It could be argued that any greater breakdown than that is just an invitation to "choose your own cliché".

[NtenseGamer]

SheffSteel wrote...

I think perhaps Maria's message isn't getting through because she was too polite.

NtenseGamer, you're getting hostile responses because you're criticising the game while at the same time making it clear that you don't really know what you're talking about.

i love it, call me out , trust me it's what forums were made for. I know i'm not right but it's my opnion and you are more than than welcome to disagree. Good job outta you SheffSteel debate is what these boards are about.. Look we all want this video game to game to be great and I'm just trying to debate why it may not be great after years of hype. Interplay and I go way back to my days with RPG Dungeon. Don't even get me started on them. I just love a good debate and if you think you can handle me then bring it on. i like this forum for it's backbone already.

[JEBesh]

NtenseGamer wrote...

I know i'm not right but it's my opnion and you are more than than welcome to disagree.

You know you're wrong, but you justify this by saying it's your opinion? It's not a matter of opinion if there is an objective right or wrong.

[Maufurtado]

NtenseGamer wrote...

I'm just saying, what if? I'm buying this game because I'm old school probably been playing RPGs before some of this forum were even born. I used to be the owner of RPGDungeon.com one of the biggest Baldur's Gate sites on the web if not the biggest. I was in Ultima Online Beta for crying out loud and was there the night Lord British (Richard Garriot) got killed by the dude that stole the fireball scroll or whatever it was he used. I almost took damage from it. I complained that he got banned. It was LB's fault he forgot to turn on his invulnerability. He should have known an assasination attempt was coming.

I started playing D&D in the late 80's and even placed 2nd in a college tourney at Ga. Tech and my group drove all the way from the University of Florida to play in it. That's how big of a geek I am (my char was a Halfling Thief named BoneShank). We won $500 bucks which was big money back then. You went in and ran the same mod and the group that got the furthest wins, it was not possible to finish it but we got further than only one group and guess what school they were from (Yep Ga Tech.) you guessed it, home cooking.

I loved the older games, Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale but they had a character development system that took years and years to perfect. This character system has not blown me away so far. What are the racial advantages and disadvantages? Where is the dual classing? Don't get me wrong I have preordered, but 3 races and classes. Any old school D&Der has to say Huh? That's bare minimum these days. I had really hoped they would invent a couple new classes that would make me wonder what they do. Fighter, Mage Rouge.....Yawn. We've been there before.

Look all I'm saying is it looks like they have created a foot long hotdog that will take you a long time to eat that is smothered with mustard, ketchup, relish and onions (in the form of cutscenes).......I just hope they didn't forget the weiner.

Life go on.

[elemental150]

NtenseGamer wrote...

Naelven wrote...

NtenseGamer wrote...

Ingrimm22 wrote...

It's a little odd that you first bragg about how hardcore of an RPG-Geek you are, while revealing that you didn't even bother to read a little into the class-diversion in Dragons Age. I mean "three classes"? They're the starter classes, just for your info.

Feel free to educate me.

I believe Ingrimm is referring to specializations

With a 4 person party I'm thinking you better not specialize too much. You are going to need a tank, you are going to need a Rogue (Thief) for those duties unless you want to miss out on opening chests, you are going to need a damage dealer (Elemental/Shadow Mage) and you are going to need a healer unless that class has been overlooked (please tell me a healer/buffer is needed if not the old school comparisons stop now and console kids win out), you are talking about a fantasy game staple.

I would disagree with this statement.....I rarely use the
four stereotypical character classes  when I play RPGs.....I usually use a
rogue/theif character and always have a magic user (sometimes damage dealing,
sometimes healing, and sometimes both or at least someone that can do a little
of boh)  but I can't ever remember using a tanking character and don't
always use a thief type......I prefer a much stronger offense then using any
kind of defensive character.  The most fun I have ever had playing a
fatasy game was two mages and two fighter type classes.......high offense on
both the physical and magical side....



I feel like what you are really sayig is that you have played RPGs forever and
a day and by doing so you feel that you know what makes a fantasy RPG good and
what makes one bad better then anyone on the forums....That you have infact
played all of your fantasy RPG games both videogames and table top with the
four stereotypical character classes and by extension have played the same game
over and over again for all these years.....



it has also become clear that you started off by saying that you pre-ordered
and are excited but then slowly showed your discontent more and more…..I feel
that once you play the game and embrace the specializations then you will be surprised
to me the look rather varied….well at least that is to say based on what I have
seen on the wiki so far….

Then again I may be the one who will be surprised when it
doesn’t matter at all…I guess we will see

[NtenseGamer]

JEBesh wrote...

NtenseGamer wrote...

I know i'm not right but it's my opnion and you are more than than welcome to disagree.

You know you're wrong, but you justify this by saying it's your opinion? It's not a matter of opinion if there is an objective right or wrong.

I'm so wrong it's even funny this is the deepest character system ever invented.

[JEBesh]

NtenseGamer wrote...

I'm so wrong it's even funny this is the deepest character system ever invented.

And now sarcastic hyperbole is the justification. Clever.

[Maria Caliban]

In a week, we'll all have out hands on the game, and can decide then how deep the experience is.



Personally, I think RPG 'depth' isn't found in combat talents and roles.

[NtenseGamer]

You are really telling on yourself now JEBesh, Play D&D pen and paper or, BG, or IWD and tell me this char system even compares. It's WEAK. But the cool graphics and cutscenes impress the console players, Why blame them that's where the money is I'm all about capatialism and that's what the gamers want, but if you think the system compares with D&D's from the previous games then you haven't played them.

[JEBesh]

NtenseGamer wrote...

You are really telling on yourself now JEBesh, Play D&D pen and paper or, BG, or IWD and tell me this char system even compares.

Note that I myself referred to the statement as hyperbole. There's a reason for that.

but if you think the system compares with D&D's from the previous games then you haven't played them.

You're right. It would be bad if I made comparisons between the systems without actually playing the games. Oh, ****.

Modifié par JEBesh, 28 octobre 2009 - 02:14 .

[NtenseGamer]

Fair enough I can live that and dude let me tell you I have much respect for you JEBesh Most people don't have the inner fire you have.... I am willing to agree to disagree with you on our debate I hope you are willing to do the same because I have enoyed it and debate is a hobby of mine we all have our opinions and I respect yours.

[JEBesh]

NtenseGamer wrote...

Fair enough I can live that and dude let me tell you I have much respect for you JEBesh Most people don't have the inner fire you have.... I am willing to agree to disagree with you on our debate I hope you are willing to do the same because I have enoyed it and debate is a hobby of mine we all have our opinions and I respect yours.

...Right. No hard feelings. You have to watch out for us "console kids."

For some reason, though, I get the feeling that the seemingly blatant sarcasm in the latter part of my previous post was completely lost.

Modifié par JEBesh, 28 octobre 2009 - 02:22 .

[M-zero]

"What if it doesn't live up to the hype?"

Probably the same thing that happens when any video game doesn't live up to the hype: Not much.  It's just a video game.

[NtenseGamer]

JEBesh wrote...

NtenseGamer wrote...

Fair enough I can live that and dude let me tell you I have much respect for you JEBesh Most people don't have the inner fire you have.... I am willing to agree to disagree with you on our debate I hope you are willing to do the same because I have enoyed it and debate is a hobby of mine we all have our opinions and I respect yours.

...Right. No hard feelings. You have to watch out for us "console kids."

Oh there's a last shot, I will let you have that last shot my friend just remenber when it all comes down to it your opinion is really all you have in this type of forum so why not defend your opinion, Good stuff JEBesh. I hope we are friends now.

[Terwox_]

Two things baffles me here. The OP's utter lack off knowledge off the game, yet he found the time to express fears he didn't even have enough info to be sure were even remotely correct.



And his inability to sit down and actually get info on what he keeps on yammering about.



The whole diplomatic covered rudeness, although poorly covered, doesn't surprise me at all though. Forum trolls are a everywhere nowadays.

[Brother Jayne]

NtenseGamer wrote...

You are really telling on yourself now JEBesh, Play D&D pen and paper or, BG, or IWD and tell me this char system even compares. It's WEAK. But the cool graphics and cutscenes impress the console players, Why blame them that's where the money is I'm all about capatialism and that's what the gamers want, but if you think the system compares with D&D's from the previous games then you haven't played them.

Dude, sod the combat mechanics and the character builds. The depth of a D&D session relies ENTIRELY on the DM and the players.

[NtenseGamer]

Terwox_ wrote...

Two things baffles me here. The OP's utter lack off knowledge off the game, yet he found the time to express fears he didn't even have enough info to be sure were even remotely correct.

And his inability to sit down and actually get info on what he keeps on yammering about.

The whole diplomatic covered rudeness, although poorly covered, doesn't surprise me at all though. Forum trolls are a everywhere nowadays.

YAWN, yes that's my opinion of your post.

[Nyaore]

And this is why I always don my proverbial earplugs shortly after learning about a game I might be interested in buying after it's been released. The less hype I hear, the better. (And what I do hear is quickly ignored in favor of keeping my expectations as neutral as humanly possible.)
Frankly I don't believe that this game will live up to all the hype surrounding it, (now let me finish before you maul me to death), simply because it's nearly impossible for ANY game to live up to such an immense amount of hype. I do believe that this game has the potential to come very close to meeting all the hopes we might have for it, but at the end of the day it's still up in the air as to whether or not it will succeed in those regards.
Best thing to do? Walk into the game with no expectations and then see how it fairs. Chances are you won't be disappointed that way, as you never had any pre-conceptions to begin with. =)

Modifié par Nyaore, 28 octobre 2009 - 02:41 .

[Brother Jayne]

NtenseGamer wrote...

Terwox_ wrote...
bloooop.

YAWN, yes that's my opinion of your post.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaawn, yes, that's my opinion of your trolling.