128 réponses à ce sujet

[Amioran]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In DAO, if you trigger an ability, the character would immediately begin to perform that activity.  That might take some time to fire, and there might be initial positioning that needed to be done, but whetever it was it started right away.

Because DA2's combat animations happen predominandly AFTER the relevant ability, that means that me triggering an ability is often greeted by the character not reacting at all, because he's still finishing up the previous animation.

It's actually TOTALLY the contrary. In DAO the animation begin to work only after positioning, the hit chance calculated on the pending (i.e. on the animation), and the damage calculated on the impact.

In DA2 the animation starts immediately and the the hit chance + damage is calculated on the impact at once. This means that while the animation works the impact is already happened and in some cases it takes a while before the former ends, for this the lapse you see.

Still, it's totally the contrary and it causes much less problems than before because A) the hit chance collides with the impact, the effect of the ability takes event immediately (if the one before was ended), C) no shuffle because the animation starts immediately (again, what you see is an issue with pathfinding that happens in some specific cases, NOT shuffling, that is consistent).

Since you are a fan of realism you should like it much more. Imagine a tempest caused by you; you will start conjuring, the storm approaches, some lightning hits while you are still gesturing. When the spell ends you will still be closing the gestures for a while, and so on.

[Ziggeh]

I noticed this too, and immediately worked out it was quicker to move and then activate the ability rather than activate, move, then become aggrivated at the shuffle.

[Noviere]

I didn't notice during my playthroughs, but I wasn't really looking for it either.

[Cyras. Knight-Errant]

noticed it with the dual wielding rouge. Mage and archer rouge only did the 'no target' streching

Modifié par Cyras. Knight-Errant, 23 février 2011 - 08:33 .

[DTKT]

Ziggeh wrote...

I noticed this too, and immediately worked out it was quicker to move and then activate the ability rather than activate, move, then become aggrivated at the shuffle.

Pretty much.

Direct control felt much more responsive. Whenever I noticed one of my party members shuffling, I just took control and moved him wherever I needed him to be.

[JetsoverEverything]

damn sylvius you love nitpicking... but its true its happened to me a few times haha

[DalishRanger]

I witnessed very, very little shuffling and what little I did encounter was still far less annoying than the shuffling in Origins. So it's still a big improvement to me.

[thegoldfinch]

Never encountered this but I don't doubt that you did.

One issue I did find with Carver was that while dealing with the real Ogre, I kept trying to make him do a special attack but he wouldn't stop auto-attacking. The same thing when I tried to make him drink a potion and he ended up dying because he didn't listen to his big sister. Never saw it happen anywhere else, though.

Modifié par pixieface, 23 février 2011 - 09:12 .

[Dave of Canada]

9 playthroughs now, 1 on PC and 8 on 360.



Haven't seen a shuffle yet.

[The Elder King]

Dave of Canada wrote...

9 playthroughs now, 1 on PC and 8 on 360.

Haven't seen a shuffle yet.

Me neither.

[TeamLexana]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Sorry Mike.  But it is.

Whenever a short-range melee attack is triggered when the target isn't in range, the character will shuffle into position just like in DAO.  Except, because the combat moves so much more quickly, this is actually a bigger problem than it was in DAO, because now by the time the character finally gets into position the entire state of the battle has changed.

I've seen shuffle too. I do think it is worse now actually. I've almost died a few times cuz I'm sitting there trying to mighty blow the dudes in front of me but I keep getting, no can't do that, no can't do that, no can't do that, "almost dead", FINALLY mighty blows and now god damn it I gotta take a health potion solely because for unknown reason I couldn't mighty blow the enemies in front of me to cut out their incomming dps much sooner to a tankable level.

I've seen it happen really bad with the dw rogue regular melee attacks, I swear my rogue is just waving her weapons around and not attacking stuff most of the time because of some sort of shuffle delay or the targeting off and she thinks I am wanting her to melee something that's too far away that she can't even leap to, whatever it is, it's really fail with the dw rogue's regular melee attacks.

[HyperLimited]

I only noticed this on PC. When I played the console demo, short range melee abilities were disabled until I was in optimum range, so there was no "shuffling into position to use an ability" issue. On PC, nothing becomes disabled, and minor shuffling occurs when you're out of range.

Modifié par HyperLimited, 23 février 2011 - 09:25 .

[FieryDove]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Sorry Mike.  But it is.

Whenever a short-range melee attack is triggered when the target isn't in range, the character will shuffle into position just like in DAO.  Except, because the combat moves so much more quickly, this is actually a bigger problem than it was in DAO, because now by the time the character finally gets into position the entire state of the battle has changed.

I just played warrior so yeah...I did notice it. Quite a bit.

[MarchWaltz]

I played both PC and console (xbox) version. I never saw shuffle on the console. On the pc however, I did. So, he was not lying when he said your char doesn't shuffle anymore........(if your playing on the console).



Trolled once again by bioware!



Looking forward to the game though, regardless.

[SorrowAndJoy7]

astrallite wrote...

All they've is done is effectively make melee attacks ranged.

This looks even worse because you go from shuffle to blitz.

In real life you actually have to build your momentum, not turn shamble around and then blitz your enemy instantaneously like DC's Flash.

I also hate in real life how when I try and cast my heals or inferno, I never have to spin my staff around because i'm out of range. God, why can't it be more realistic.

[ReallyRue]

I don't remember noticing this? Perhaps because I played a mage, and the only annoying thing there was an overlong out-of-range animation.

[Wulfram]

For melee, you just need to remember to use a regular attack to close, then break out your special attacks.



What is annoying are the medium range attacks, where you have to guess whether you're in range or not. I guess I'll get better at this with time, but it would be much better if - for example - the cursor changed colour if you were out of range.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Dave of Canada wrote...

9 playthroughs now, 1 on PC and 8 on 360.

Haven't seen a shuffle yet.

Get Carver next to a crowd of enemies, and then tell him to use Mighty Blow against an enemy that's on the far side of the group.

Shuffle.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Amioran wrote...

 In DAO the animation begin to work only after positioning

DA2 does the same.

In DA2 the animation starts immediately

Immediately after positioning, yes.

and the the hit chance + damage is calculated on the impact at once. This means that while the animation works the impact is already happened and in some cases it takes a while before the former ends, for this the lapse you see.

RIght, this is what I'm complaining about.  In DAO the impact tended to be at the end of the animation, rather than the beginning, so once the impact happened the character was then available to do something else.  But that's not the case in DA2.

[Firky]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Whenever a short-range melee attack is triggered when the target isn't in range, the character will shuffle into position just like in DAO.  Except, because the combat moves so much more quickly, this is actually a bigger problem than it was in DAO, because now by the time the character finally gets into position the entire state of the battle has changed.

This is a really interesting point.

After getting more familiar with combat, I've found that I actually like this a lot. You have to decide how important it is to move around a group of clustered enemies and weigh up if "the shuffle" its worth it.

But being able to "close distances" so effectively when you are going for melee at range is also something which can be used effectively to one's advantage.

I'm really enjoying learning the combat rules and figuring out strategies to work around things. For me, "shuffle" and "lack of shuffle" are providing an interesting challenge.


PS. Also, the desire to move around a group of clustered enemies is also discouraged by the warrior's arc attack.

Modifié par Firky, 23 février 2011 - 10:35 .

[Maverick827]

Nonoru wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

Six playthroughs and yet to see even one shuffle. I must be the luckiest person ever.

Sylvius is just overreacting,but it was unfortunately inevitable.

Modifié par Maverick827, 23 février 2011 - 10:39 .

[Sengoku no Maou]

For a while, I thought I was the only one that noticed this. I would have sworn I was seeing things

[Blastback]

I noticed it aswell, but I didn't think it was that bad.

[Corvayle]

Haha. I've just done my first demo playthrough with a rogue. In the final fight, Isabela and my rogue tried to attack the same archer who was backing away down the long entrance corridor, both from the same direction as Isabela is not under your control at that point. They performed synchronised cartwheels down half the length of the corridor. It was weirdly hypnotic...

Modifié par Corvayle, 23 février 2011 - 10:43 .

[Firky]

TeamLexana wrote...


I've seen shuffle too. I do think it is worse now actually. I've almost died a few times cuz I'm sitting there trying to mighty blow the dudes in front of me but I keep getting, no can't do that, no can't do that, no can't do that, "almost dead", FINALLY mighty blows and now god damn it I gotta take a health potion solely because for unknown reason I couldn't mighty blow the enemies in front of me to cut out their incomming dps much sooner to a tankable level.

I've seen it happen really bad with the dw rogue regular melee attacks, I swear my rogue is just waving her weapons around and not attacking stuff most of the time because of some sort of shuffle delay or the targeting off and she thinks I am wanting her to melee something that's too far away that she can't even leap to, whatever it is, it's really fail with the dw rogue's regular melee attacks.

I wonder if this is actually because you are trying to fire off an ability but she is being knocked out of her action by an enemy hit. It might be one of those (fairly subtle IMO) integrated "action" mechanics. Edit: Whoops. I think it is also the case that you can't regular melee attack if you are being pummelled too.

Personally, I love this too, after a bit of practice. It makes ability use more meaningful, IMO, and I quite like having to deal with what is being thrown at me before I can respond. (Getting surrounded can be a major, fun, headache.)

Modifié par Firky, 23 février 2011 - 10:45 .