128 réponses à ce sujet

[Dubya75]

Big deal! It's still miles ahead of Origins. Next people are going to start complaining the combat is too slow overall...*shakes head*

[Urazz]

The shuffle is still there but it's more minimal compared to the shuffle we got in Origins so that's a big improvement at least.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Firky wrote...

Also, the desire to move around a group of clustered enemies is also discouraged by the warrior's arc attack.

It would be discouraged more if I knew what the arc attack was going to hit.  I'd like an AoE targetting reticle for melee attacks just like with spells.

TeamLexana wrote...

I've seen shuffle too. I do think it is worse now actually. I've almost died a few times cuz I'm sitting there trying to mighty blow the dudes in front of me but I keep getting, no can't do that, no can't do that, no can't do that, "almost dead", FINALLY mighty blows and now god damn it I gotta take a health potion solely because for unknown reason I couldn't mighty blow the enemies in front of me to cut out their incomming dps much sooner to a tankable level.

This is my experience, as well.  The only time I've been close to death in the demo is when the characters won't do what I tell them to do.

Urazz wrote...

The shuffle is still there but it's more minimal compared to the shuffle we got in Origins so that's a big improvement at least.

I never really noticed the shuffle in Origins, because it was predictable.  It never caught me off-guard, so it never disrupted my tacitcal plan.

[TransientNomad]

Shuffle only happened to me once after 8 playthroughs.while playing the rogue when I attempted a backstab when the enemy's back was against the wall. Never had any other issue with it, and already it is a helluva lot more consistent than origins.

[Amioran]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Immediately after positioning, yes.

No. Only in case the pathfinding has an issue. In other cases it happens before positioning. For what I see only normal attacks do animations after positioning.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
RIght, this is what I'm complaining about.  In DAO the impact tended to be at the end of the animation, rather than the beginning, so once the impact happened the character was then available to do something else.  But that's not the case in DA2.

They just switched the impact while the animation is running instead of all at the end. In this way the ability does some effect immediately. For example Inferno in DAO required 3-4 seconds of animation and after this the effect worked. In DA2, instead, for example with Firestorm, the effects works immediately, while the animation is running.

The working time of the animation differs from ability. Higher ranks naturally require more cast time (as Origins). This makes combat more dynamic if you adjust for it, and either more realistic. You just have to adapt to the fact that the effect start immediately and then you require some time (for higher abilities) to recover, sort of like being fatigued. Chaining abilities however it's exactly the same thing in time lapse, you think it's different because you are accustomed to waiting the animation then cast, waiting for the animation then cast etc. instead of cast, wait for animation to finish then cast again and wait for animation to finish etc.

A problem Origins had since how the gameplay was structured was that, since the hit chance was calculated before the animation but the damage after, if you had high casting times abilities the enemies could already be outside the AOE and still affected. More, targeting was a bit off because in the time the ability actually take effect the layout was not more the same, probably. This doesn't happen no more since effects starts at once and the impact and hit chance routine are tied to the impact (that happens immediately the same).

Modifié par Amioran, 23 février 2011 - 11:09 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Amioran wrote...

The working time of the animation differs from ability. Higher ranks naturally require more cast time (as Origins). This makes combat more dynamic if you adjust for it, and either more realistic. You just have to adapt to the fact that the effect start immediately and then you require some time (for higher abilities) to recover, sort of like being fatigued. Chaining abilities however it's exactly the same thing in time lapse, you think it's different because you are accustomed to waiting the animation then cast, waiting for the animation then cast etc. instead of cast, wait for animation to finish then cast again and wait for animation to finish etc.

But in DAO you could cancel abilities before they were done.  You were never stuck performaing an action when you wanted to perform some other new action.  The only thing that ever did this in DAO was deathblows.

But in DA2, you're trapped in the animations until they're done.

[Blacklash93]

I'm sick of Rogues extreme roundhouse kicking to close in, too. If an enemy is moving even a little bit, they do it constantly.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 23 février 2011 - 11:11 .

[Marionetten]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I'm sick of Rogues extreme roundhouse kicking, too.

I once had my rogue Hawke repeatedly roundhouse kick a darkspawn in the back while chasing him. It was an interesting experience.

[Amioran]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

But in DA2, you're trapped in the animations until they're done.

True. But what would be the motive of cancelling animations in DA2? Since the effects begins immediately the layout is exactly the same as when you casted. There's no possibility of the layout changing while you are casting (given the lapse in time between the animation running and the actual casting).

The only motive could be escaping a danger, but in this case it makes sense that to overcome the fact that you failed the ability in DAO (so resetting the cooldown) while now this isn't possible (given the immediate effect of the ability), you require a sort of "mental trance" while you cast.

[GraciousCat]

Marionetten wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

I'm sick of Rogues extreme roundhouse kicking, too.

I once had my rogue Hawke repeatedly roundhouse kick a darkspawn in the back while chasing him. It was an interesting experience.

Sounds like I need to try out the rogue...

On topic though, I haven't seen any "shuffles" in any of my playthroughs yet, though I haven't played through nearly as many times as some of the other people on these boards.

[Morroian]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

9 playthroughs now, 1 on PC and 8 on 360.

Haven't seen a shuffle yet.

Get Carver next to a crowd of enemies, and then tell him to use Mighty Blow against an enemy that's on the far side of the group.

Shuffle.

This just says to me that positioning is more important.

[TransientNomad]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Amioran wrote...

The working time of the animation differs from ability. Higher ranks naturally require more cast time (as Origins). This makes combat more dynamic if you adjust for it, and either more realistic. You just have to adapt to the fact that the effect start immediately and then you require some time (for higher abilities) to recover, sort of like being fatigued. Chaining abilities however it's exactly the same thing in time lapse, you think it's different because you are accustomed to waiting the animation then cast, waiting for the animation then cast etc. instead of cast, wait for animation to finish then cast again and wait for animation to finish etc.

But in DAO you could cancel abilities before they were done.  You were never stuck performaing an action when you wanted to perform some other new action.  The only thing that ever did this in DAO was deathblows.

But in DA2, you're trapped in the animations until they're done.

For charge spells yes, you could break out of the animation in Dragon Age Origin, NOT any other abilities.  If you used assualt in DAO, you HAD to finish the animation, if you used punisher you HAD to finish the animation, if you used whirlwind, etc.  Lying isn't nice, especially if its to yourself.

[JamesX]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

But in DA2, you're trapped in the animations until they're done.

Not sure, I remember cancelling actions by just issuing another one.  

Like I switch over to Bethany and cast fire ball myself when I see her run forward to bombard the dark spawns (who would have moved forward and the fire ball missd)  or switching from jump attack to different one as the character is chasing down the mob.

Or are you talking aobut once the ability activates (e.g. started the jump for jump attack) it is too late to change?

[Maria Caliban]

Amioran wrote...

In DA2 the animation starts immediately...

No, it doesn't. Try to cast fireball in the middle of an attack and watch your character instead finish the attack first and then cast the fireball.

[Amioran]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Amioran wrote...

In DA2 the animation starts immediately...

No, it doesn't. Try to cast fireball in the middle of an attack and watch your character instead finish the attack first and then cast the fireball.

Because the "attack" before was finishing the animation.

Try casting Firestorm, for example, while you do nothing (i.e you didn't do anything before, so to not have an animation running). You will see the animation and the effects starts immediately.

Modifié par Amioran, 23 février 2011 - 11:36 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Amioran wrote...

True. But what would be the motive of cancelling animations in DA2?

Because you now want to do something different.  If, while the animation is taking place, the tactical situation changes sufficiently, you might rather be doing something other than using Scythe right now.  Ir firing a mage staff auto-attack.

In DAO, you could do this.  In DA2 you can't, because the post-impact animation is part of the cost of using the ability.

But what this does is make Mike's assertion that "you press a button and something awesome happens" grossly false.

[Sylvius the Mad]

JamesX wrote...

Or are you talking aobut once the ability activates (e.g. started the jump for jump attack) it is too late to change?

Yes.  In DAO it was almost never too late to change.

[JrayM16]

THE SHUFFLE! IT LIVES!

[Blacklash93]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

JamesX wrote...

Or are you talking aobut once the ability activates (e.g. started the jump for jump attack) it is too late to change?

Yes.  In DAO it was almost never too late to change.

The animations are so fast it doesn't really matter anyway.

The most powerful spells for a mage, for example, need such a drawback anyway.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 23 février 2011 - 11:42 .

[panamakira]

Didn't see much "shuffling" though when I played but I did notice you had to be close to the target to activate abilities.....Didn't have much problem on the second play~

[Rompa87]

I guess I need to scan my gameplay for errors and pet peeves more often. I enjoyed it, but now it seems I was wrong to?

[Amioran]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Because you now want to do something different.  If, while the animation is taking place, the tactical situation changes sufficiently, you might rather be doing something other than using Scythe right now.  Ir firing a mage staff auto-attack.

But, again, what could be the motivaton of changing idea? Since the time lapse from when you activate the ability (if you learn to use them with a rythim as you do with combos) to when it takes effect is practically non-existant, the tactical situation isn't changed at all, differently from DAO since there there was a lapse between the two.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
In DAO, you could do this.  In DA2 you can't, because the post-impact animation is part of the cost of using the ability.

You can't because if you learn to chain abilities with a rythim the cancel isn't necessary. The tactical disavantage given by the time lapse between the activation of an ability to its effect is removed in this case.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But what this does is make Mike's assertion that "you press a button and something awesome happens" grossly false.

It's not false. It is only that you are playing DA2 the same way as you played Origins. Learn to have a rythim when you use abilities, as you did, for example, using 2Handed in DAO. Also there if you used and ability before the swing was finished it took you more time to land the hit.

If you take in consideration the requiring time for an animation to end you can chain abilties much more effectively than you could in DAO, and with more tactical awareness. It just takes some time to being used to it.

Modifié par Amioran, 23 février 2011 - 11:53 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Blacklash93 wrote...

The animations are so fast it doesn't really matter anyway.

The enemies are faster, too, so it actually matters just as much.

Amioran wrote...

But, again, what could be the motivaton of changing idea? Since the time lapse from when you activate the ability (if you learn to use them with a rythim as you do with combos) to when it takes effect is practically non-existant, the tactical situation isn't changed at all, differently from DAO since there there was a lapse between the two.

In DAO I could fire off a knockdown or a stun whenever it became necessary.

In DA2 that situation might arise when my characters are busy performing animations for something else, and I can't fire that stun or knockdown.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

You can't because if you learn to chain abilities with a rythim the cancel isn't necessary. The tactical disavantage given by the time lapse between the activation of an ability to its effect is removed in this case.

What is this I keep seeing about chaining or rhythm?  I'm controlling 4 characters at a time.  How could I possibly have a rhythm?  I'm pausing the game every half-second.

[Lucy Glitter]

Shepard Lives wrote...

I love you, Sylv.