128 réponses à ce sujet

[Xewaka]

Sylvius. I noticed the shuffle as well. As well as some targeting problems. However, you might like the archer rogue, it's much more inmediate in its animations and allows for the level of inmediacy you seek.

[Ex_Everest]

rumination888 wrote...

The difference is that you aren't attacking when you "shuffle" in DA:O.
In DA2, when a warrior/rogue leaps/flips/rushes towards an enemy from a regular attack, they take damage.

I think the reason people disliked the shuffle was because it stopped combat. Specifically, it stopped rogue combat tremendously. First has been negated through faster reactions/attacks, 2nd, removed. I think you might be being pedantic, Sylvius.

[Blacklash93]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

The animations are so fast it doesn't really matter anyway.

The enemies are faster, too, so it actually matters just as much.

Most Warrior and Rogue animations are perfectly fine the way they are. They're so fast that not being able to cancel out of them doesn't even matter, though I'll admit there were one or two abilities where such an option would have been useful.

And Mages are so OP that it kind of makes it more fair... slightly.

This isn't supposed to be a pure action game anyway, no matter how much the devs have tried ot make it seem that way.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 24 février 2011 - 01:11 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

I didn't find the shuffle in DAO to be anywhere near as disruptive as it is in DA2.

So far I've only played a S&S LadyHawke, because it's nothing at all like what I'll actually be playing my first time through the real game.

[Desolution]

In real life, when I'm surrounded by darkspawn and wish to use a special attack on a darkspawn on the other side of the pack in an unwieldly inefficient sort of way, I also shuffle around a bit, otherwise I'd be attacked. So it's perfectly realistic. Although in real life, I just throw a smoke bomb and teleport behind my foes.



Incidentally, Sylvius, try playing a rogue on the demo, even for a bit, and you'll see how none of those flaws exist any more...

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'll admit, I've so far only noticed the shuffle with Warriors, and I have no intention of having a Warrior in my party if I can at all help it when I play the actual game.

[mmu1]

Anyone notice that sometimes, when the enemy is on the other side of some minor terrain feature meant to prevent your character from just being able to charge them directly (they do it a lot with archers, for example, give them these little perches) and you right-click on them, the game has your character charge forward and get stuck on the terrain instead of going around, and you end up having to manually navigate around that crap?



Kind of ruins the "awesome" feeling, when your character does a leap forward and is stopped dead by a 1.5 foot tall cliff of rock...

[jomonoe]

Gotta agree on this. Closing attacks are also a problem and nto a solution as others have voiced. This often happened in the demo, a character is attacking a moving enemy and because the enemy doesn't stop moving, the character does closing attack for closing attack. It's a little better for warriors but for rogues, it just looks completely ridiculous. Cartwheel after cartwheel because the guy is 2 feet away. Seriously ugly.

[Wissenschaft]

Seems a very minor problem to me......but then again I just use taunt to make the enemies stay near me............

I do have to sometimes click on the ground around an enemy to get into the right position but at least the shuffling around is a lot faster in DA2.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 24 février 2011 - 01:45 .

[Tehnazzy]

Was trying to activate one of Carver's abilities when I realized the shuffle. Took him a while to get into position to attack that one enemy, actually.

[Bruddajakka]

Yeah I noticed the cartwheel thing with Rogues chasing an enemy so what I tend to do now is hit evasion then do a pouncing attack on them.

[Jarek_Cousland]

I noticed this with mage, however with any melee class I didnt have this problem. I think its just a range thing.

[Jazharah]

Granted, it is still there, but I also have to admit it is still a huge improvement from DA:O.

Where in DA:O I would aim to intercept an incoming enemy with my DW rogue from stealth, she'd run towards him, let him pass, then look around confused, scratch her brow and ponder "where did he go?" causing loss of the target.

As someone else stated before though: the 'cartwheeling after your target' happens sporadically and looks plain-out weird.

[Boss Fog]

I've seen the shuffle a few times, but not nearly enough for me to condemn it. I caught Carver and Aveline doing it a few times but only when they were obstructed by enemy NPCs; Scythe will fix that problem real quick I'd imagine.



I also don't mind a little shuffle here and there, it reminds me that I'm playing a DA game.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I'm playing a warrior.He'll e auto attacking just fine on his target, then I click an ability, say shield bash.. he performs the action and then just stands there.. huh? So using an ability turns off attack?



In this case I'd be happy to see him shuffle off to his target, but no, he just stands there while other mobs pound on him..



I hope this is fixed in the released version.

[Jake Summerz]

I noticed it after getting Aveline and her husband in the party. Aveline started shuffling while the archers were targeted.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Jazharah wrote...

Granted, it is still there, but I also have to admit it is still a huge improvement from DA:O.

I don't admit that.  I dispute that.  DAO's shuffle was more predictable.

DA2's would work better if  had some idea of what abilities would reach what targets.  Those melee attacks need a AoE indicator like spells have.

[The Big Nothing]

I know how to fix this: make the combat faster and more responsive. Wait...

[Sylvius the Mad]

The Big Nothing wrote...

I know how to fix this: make the combat faster and more responsive. Wait...

Bcause of the way the animations trail the impact rather than leading the impact, I'd say they actually made combat less responsive.  Faster, yes, but less responsive.

[Amioran]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
The enemies are faster, too, so it actually matters just as much.

Wrong. Enemies still have to move in position till the end of the path. Most of them don't have closing attacks. Animation speed of enemies (while running) is unchanged.

Then the difference between an Inferno in DAO vs a Firestorm in DA2 it's abysall. First case: start to cast to group of enemies, animation pending, enemies are already on the other end of the room when cast is finished (hypotetic). Second case: start to cast to group of enemies, effects starts immediately while animation run, enemies are all affected. 

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
In DA2 that situation might arise when my characters are busy performing animations for something else, and I can't fire that stun or knockdown.

Firstly it will happen only with certain abilities that require high casting times, for the others the lapse in the animation is so brief as not to make the minimal difference, and secondly if you are busy in DA2 it means you are actually doing some effect, differently from before.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
What is this I keep seeing about chaining or rhythm?  I'm controlling 4 characters at a time.  How could I possibly have a rhythm?  I'm pausing the game every half-second.

What I elencated was specific for the mage, mostly, because some of his abilities have an high time casting. A mage requires more micromanagement usually than other classes. This happened also in DAO.

Modifié par Amioran, 24 février 2011 - 09:28 .

[Vahe]

Learn to play the game. Pressing R will get you within range, then you can use your active abilities. It's just like KOTOR's "Force Leap." Only triggered off of basic attacks.  Although I will admit the cartwheels are dumb.  

Modifié par Vahe, 24 février 2011 - 09:25 .

[Amioran]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I don't admit that.  I dispute that.  DAO's shuffle was more predictable.

Yesterday I had little time, now I will tell you what really happens.

Close range abilities (as melee attacks) have a range on which they take effect.  If you are within this range of effect the instances (as enemies) becomes "ghost" instances (meaning that you can pass them without re-positioning). If instead you are not within that range the character have first to position within the same and the instances are not ghost in this case.

So, for example, if you are surrrounded by a group of enemies and you use an ability on another group, if this last group is within the range of the effect of that ability there will be no "shuffle" whatsoever. However if the group is outside the range the character will have to find a way to arrive there. In this case you see the "shuffle" you talk about.

I say it's more an issue of pathfinding because in most of the cases also if you are surrounded there's always enough space between two instances for you to pass through, but instead the engine goes into "confusion" and tries to turn around the obstacle.

This issue can be noted almost only with warriors, since mages have most of the abilities that work at far range, and rogues have many abilities that permit them repositioning so to not be obstruced.

[StormbringerGT]

I only noticed something like this once.



It was the second encounter you get in with Isabella. She was chasing a guy running towards me (the mage) I was running away. Once she got close she would do her leap attack to close the distance but by the time she got to where he was he was a little further and when the animation finished. It was time for her to start up a close up attack again. This happened around 6 times in a row until I stopped moving and he ran up to me and put some smack on me.

[silver-crescent]

 I played through the demo twice and this only happened to me a single time, and it lasted like 1-2 seconds. So yeah not exactly a huge deal.

[StormbringerGT]

Finishing an animation though does bring something different to the table. If you guy is swinging a sword hes not going to be able to stop that sing in mid blow, 360 and shield bash someone 10 feet away. He would at least have to finish through with that sword swing.