86 réponses à ce sujet

[Chala]

mmm guys try to avoid those HUGE pyramid quotes, it could cause a thread lockdown

[The Spamming Troll]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

ofcorse a weapon or ability would suck if you didnt invest in it. your infiltrator wouldnt be very successfull if you didnt invest in immunity either. ....i dont remember what else i had to tell you.

You're right, I must have missed something playing both games then.

Hmm... but I don't remember having to invest in a power to use a Sniper Rifle in ME2 like I did in ME1, let me think... What could it be that you didn't tell me?

*Puts Thinking Cap on*  

*Still thinking*


Great Scott!   The two games must have different Combat systems!

*joking around by the way*

but your trying to compare something you need to invest in, to something you dont need to invest in.

[Praetor Knight]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

but your trying to compare something you need to invest in, to something you dont need to invest in.

Yes well, exactly my point actually.

[Gatt9]

jamesp81 wrote...

Rolenka wrote...

I just bought ME2, so you'll have to bear with me.

What is it they are supposed to do? The loading screen tooltip says ejecting thermal clips keeps weapons cool. So is each "shell" like, a little capsule of coolant? Or what?

Humanity has had weapons that fire bullets without overheating for hundreds of years. Yes, heat is a problem if you modify the weapon or don't use or maintain it properly, but no military in the world has that problem. So the ME1 system was closer to reality. Just ease off the trigger once in awhile.

I see from the wiki that firearms in Mass Effect fire little bits of metal shaved off of a block which are shrunk by a mass effect field and somehow propelled forward (no propellant is named). I suppose the implication is that this process creates a lot of heat; enough to melt your weapon in one shot if you don't have a thermal clip.

I fail to see how this is an improvement over present day firearms. Instead of hauling around ammo, you haul around coolant. And if there's a problem with the weapon, instead of jamming, it melts your hands off or something.

Have we figured out what the deal is?

The propellant is probably electromagnetism....think railgun.  Throwing that amount of energy around creates a LOT of heat.  I do gunsmithing as a hobby, so believe me, I know about the issues heat can cause in present day firearms.  I think the reason the thermal clip design is superior is because by having extra coolant, you can release more energy per shot, giving you much higher muzzle velocity.  Though the firearms in ME are similar to present day weapons in that they fire projectiles, my read is that ME firearms allow much higher velocities to be attained in the same size package.  Additionally, it seems to me that if you didn't have any thermal clips, you should be able to program the weapon to use a much lower charge to propel the projectile and keep heat at bay; this would reduce the weapon's effectiveness, but if you got no thermal clips, crappy weapons are still better than no weapons.

And actually, ME weapons are even more complicated than gameplay suggests.  In order for the weapon to function, it needs 1) thermal clips, 2) ammunition and, 3) power supply.  My read is that 2 and 3 are much more compact and in terms of gameplay, you carry enough of them that you needn't worry about it for the length of one mission.

Strictly speaking,  it actually doesn't.

Heat is the byproduct of electricity leaking,  inefficient use of electricity.  In a world where autonomous AI exists and faster than light travel is possible,  leakage should be very well controlled.  In a conventional firearm heat is the byproduct of the chemical reaction,  in this instance,  it's the byproduct of the energy source releasing electricity to accelerate the round(s). 

As such,  the issue is heat buildup,  or heat soaking.  The entire premise behind the heat sinks is technically ridiculous.  The only option they have,  given the presentation,  is a refrigerant used to maintain a constant temerature.  So what would occur is that temperature would be X,  then immediately after firing the round X + Y,  then the refrigerant increases so it becomes X + Y - Y,  then it returns to normal.  Repeatedly over time this would result in metal fatigue,  causing the weapons to be prone to failure.  This event must occur,  because the only reason you would cool the metal is if the heat was sufficient to stress it,  and so consequently it must cause stress over time.  Sudden heating and cooling is very stressfull.  I just reread and noted you're gunsmith,  so I'm sure you're already familiar with this.

There wouldn't be a friction issue,  ideally,  the entire barrel would be a projected magnetic field.

Of course,  the largest problem is:  The only way this makes sense is if what we're talking about is some power source that is inactive until used.  It can't be Fission or Fusion based,  those must be "Always on",  the reaction must be constantly present,  and so would require a constant flow of coolant regardless of use.  So,  the only logical fuel for these weapons is matter/antimatter,  when energy is needed the atoms are introduced to each other.  Which is fine,  except...

Now the weapons are more dangerous to the wielder than they are to the enemy.  We're right back to WW1 Flamethrowers.  Don't bother shooting the guy,  shoot his weapon,  crack the anti-matter cell,  and you'll kill not only him,  but everyone around him as well.  If he's carrying around enough anti-matter to be able to shoot as many rounds as he'd like without recharging,  the fastest way to kill him and all his friends is to aim a shotgun right at his rifle.

[Aradace]

LordEurope wrote...

It's all in the codex

This pretty much sums up any questions you have on just about any subject in the ME series.  Check the codex and more often than not, you will find your answer.

[SalsaDMA]

Gatt9 wrote...

There wouldn't be a friction issue,  ideally,  the entire barrel would be a projected magnetic field.

Eh... Are you claiming that we are using the weapons in vacum?

Stuff burns up in the atmosphere because of friction, and that friction isn't caused by hitting stone, metal or anything of the like, but from hitting air.

[Encarmine]

William Adama wrote...

It's a videogame, a form of fictional entertainment. It's not real enough to be upset about. If you have fun and are being entertained by it that's all that matters. Videogames are a DISTRACTION from real life and basically serve to kill time for the bored. <br />
<br />
Live in the real world and worry about things that matter. You people are getting upset about a work of fiction, which is something cooked up by some writer/creator at Bioware designed to make money for themselves.<br />
<br />
That's the same reason GL created Star wars and why Ridley Scott made Alien, it was a form of trade to gather money. It's a job. Bioware and other videogame companies "trick" people into buying their product by making them fun and entertaining. The better they are at tricking you into immersion, the more sales they'll get.<br />
<br />
It's all an elaborate illusion that serves NOTHING of any relevance in life, just to waste the number of heartbeats that you have to live. Wake up, stop living in your fantasy, and make a Shepard out of REAL LIFE.<br />
<br />
You may be a hero in videogames, but are you in reality? I thought not.

Get over yourself you racist piece of cr-ap, your comment holds no weight, dont sit on your arse, infront of a PC and then attempt to tell others to go outside more and smell the roses, whie you sit indoors in the dark dropping racist remarks (another thread to this one).

The very fact that you registered on these forums shows you are an above normal fan of this game, your knowlege of the fantasy genre to which you try and take a high moral view on, again shows you spend HOURS watching nothing but fantasy stuff. Why dont you f-off and go be racist to some people to their faces outside in the real world instead of hiding behind your PC, in your mums basement.

[William Adama]

Encarmine wrote...

William Adama wrote...

It's a videogame, a form of fictional entertainment. It's not real enough to be upset about. If you have fun and are being entertained by it that's all that matters. Videogames are a DISTRACTION from real life and basically serve to kill time for the bored. <br />
<br />
Live in the real world and worry about things that matter. You people are getting upset about a work of fiction, which is something cooked up by some writer/creator at Bioware designed to make money for themselves.<br />
<br />
That's the same reason GL created Star wars and why Ridley Scott made Alien, it was a form of trade to gather money. It's a job. Bioware and other videogame companies "trick" people into buying their product by making them fun and entertaining. The better they are at tricking you into immersion, the more sales they'll get.<br />
<br />
It's all an elaborate illusion that serves NOTHING of any relevance in life, just to waste the number of heartbeats that you have to live. Wake up, stop living in your fantasy, and make a Shepard out of REAL LIFE.<br />
<br />
You may be a hero in videogames, but are you in reality? I thought not.

Get over yourself you racist piece of cr-ap, your comment holds no weight, dont sit on your arse, infront of a PC and then attempt to tell others to go outside more and smell the roses, whie you sit indoors in the dark dropping racist remarks (another thread to this one).

The very fact that you registered on these forums shows you are an above normal fan of this game, your knowlege of the fantasy genre to which you try and take a high moral view on, again shows you spend HOURS watching nothing but fantasy stuff. Why dont you f-off and go be racist to some people to their faces outside in the real world instead of hiding behind your PC, in your mums basement.

I assume you are referring to my thread regarding London...

I am very sorry if I offended you and had no intention of hurting anyones feelings. You have every right to be angry at what I was implying but believe me that it was not racist in nature.

I ask for your forgiveness and apologize again for anything I have said that made you angry. I am sorry.

[Encarmine]

Everyone deserves a second chance, and you just bought yours. Apology accepted, and lets start fresh over.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Isn't about a year too late to be talking about this?

[Vyse_Fina]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Isn't about a year too late to be talking about this?

Didn't people complain about this over a year ago already when the news about thermal clips was made public and people ****ed about how ME2 was turned into a coverbased shooter? (Looking back now I have to say they were kinda right about it btw)

Modifié par Vyse_Fina, 01 mars 2011 - 07:38 .

[Mynoot]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

I'll put it simple, in the first ME the ammo system had some issues that could ruin gameplay, like the "shoot your assault rifle during 5 min uninterrupted" a.k.a "unlimited ammo", so they decided to add thermal clips (that is just a fancy way to say ammo clip) this improves the gameplay a lot, but the main problem was the bad retcon they made saying that this clips were taken from the assault rifles of the geth when that wasn't true.. because of this you can see the rage of some member of the comunity about this problem... If you ask me, I don't care about the retcon THIS TIME, because for me the decision of using ammo clips was the best one.<br />
<br />
PS: Sorry if I wrote something wrong, I speak spanish

They would have been better off adding thermal clips to the original concept and allow players to eject, at a cost of time, to bring the heat down, say, 1/4 - 1/3, and removing heatsinks all together.