360 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyJellyfish]

Tietj wrote...
Honestly, I didn't think it DID work in Origins.  For one thing, my boyfriend never wanted to watch me play. 

And I don't see how a keyword/paraphrase system is dumbed down.  Simple and quick does not always equal dumb.

This.

My boyfriend has absolutely NO INTEREST in investing any time into DA:O. It was long, it was strange to see a barbie doll character with no emotional reaction to what was being said, and it was boring going through the dialogue trees.

If DA2 believes in order to reach a wider audience, they need to change their game, more power to them. I'm not going to grab the game like Smeagol and huddle in a corner screaming MINE.

[Syrellaris]

'To be honest I rather would have liked to see more classes and races to play, each with there own beginning story like in DA:O. However this time with voice. I think bioware could and should have done that, limiting it to just a human and male/female is just being lazy.



You can still do every race both male and female with voice and there own unique story beginning, it would only increase development time and the costs by a bit. Besides I think many fans would not mind to wait a nother 4-5 months for that to be completed.

[Moondoggie]

Sabiancym wrote...

I agree, it takes away from the "It's my story" feeling.

In origins I was the hero. In 2, I'm watching the hero.

There is no difference in the two games and the way they play out other than in one you can hear the voice and another you hear it in your head.

In DA II you can still shape the story yourself and make decisions it's YOUR story it's not like your FPS where the story is a set one and you just play it through.

Not sure why hearing a character talk outside of your imagination would make you think that.

[Moondoggie]

Syrellaris wrote...

'To be honest I rather would have liked to see more classes and races to play, each with there own beginning story like in DA:O. However this time with voice. I think bioware could and should have done that, limiting it to just a human and male/female is just being lazy.

You can still do every race both male and female with voice and there own unique story beginning, it would only increase development time and the costs by a bit. Besides I think many fans would not mind to wait a nother 4-5 months for that to be completed.

It would increase development time and costs a lot. There's just so much more to consider and work out in the game that way because you need to make each origin story unique and have a ton of extra dialogue. And you'll need different voice actors because different races sound different unless you get the same voice actor to do different voices and accents but then that's a whole ton more work for them and just the thought of organising that hurts my head so i imagine they felt the same.

[Syrellaris]

Even so, the current choices are so limited that I am quite dissapointed in it. only 3 classes and 1 race to pick? I can understand they wish to put down a nice story for DA2, and the demo was awsome, but I think they could have done more with it.



I would even sacrifice voice for it, seeing as DA:O was a great even without it

[wowpwnslol]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Tietj wrote...
Honestly, I didn't think it DID work in Origins.  For one thing, my boyfriend never wanted to watch me play. 

And I don't see how a keyword/paraphrase system is dumbed down.  Simple and quick does not always equal dumb.

This.

My boyfriend has absolutely NO INTEREST in investing any time into DA:O. It was long, it was strange to see a barbie doll character with no emotional reaction to what was being said, and it was boring going through the dialogue trees.

If DA2 believes in order to reach a wider audience, they need to change their game, more power to them. I'm not going to grab the game like Smeagol and huddle in a corner screaming MINE.

Tell your boyfriend to go play MW2 - that might be more in line with his intelligence.

[Moondoggie]

Syrellaris wrote...

Even so, the current choices are so limited that I am quite dissapointed in it. only 3 classes and 1 race to pick? I can understand they wish to put down a nice story for DA2, and the demo was awsome, but I think they could have done more with it.

I would even sacrifice voice for it, seeing as DA:O was a great even without it

I see the point you are trying to make and i'm a big Origins fan too but looking at the two forks in the road they could have taken it's probably the best in the long run. Okay they made some sacrifices  and it's become a bit more mainstream but we can expect an even more epic and dynamic game. And i'm glad they made a game that feels more inclusive and can branch out and attract a new audience as well as deliver to the current one.

[HolyJellyfish]

wowpwnslol wrote...


Tell your boyfriend to go play MW2 - that might be more in line with his intelligence.

So simply because DA:O bores him because - quite frankly - the dialogue trees are boring, that makes him less intelligent? Real practical thinking there.

Maybe you should use your own advice since MW2's multiplayer arguments are just as logical as yours are.

[AllThatJazz]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Tietj wrote...

I'm sorry, I just reread my post and I didn't mean to sound so sarcastic.  It's late here (not that that's an excuse).  I disagree with you but it really boils down to opinions.  In my opinion, the paraphrasing was pretty clear--that one line that you mentioned was a little out of left field but in general I had no problem determining the tone of what was going to be said.  Maybe other people saw it differently, I don't know.   But I do take exception to the phrase "dumbing down," I really haven't heard anybody give a real reason why DA2 is "dumbed down" from DA:O even though that phrase has been said a lot.  To assume that making a game that is geared toward console play (not that I'm saying DA2 is, but for the sake of argument) is somehow pandering to a "lower" audience is elitist and insulting, and is most likely the cause of some of the bad attitudes of people who disagree.

Dumbing down is taking away something that worked and changing it for the sake of making it simpler.
In order to make a game with a voiced protagonist the dialogue system is dumbed down to keywords, which may or may not relate to what you say (In ME2 it's very hit/miss) and in the demo it seems iffy to say the least.
In DA you got a full dialogue line so you always knew what the character would "say" even if the line was not delivered.

People often blame consoles. But if you actually play any RPGs that are made for consoles(Japanese stuff), they are almost without exception very complex games.

Appreciate the appology anyway.

Tbh, whenever I hear the phrase 'dumbing down', it usually indicates a simplification, not merely for the sake of simplifying, but in order to appeal to those of markedly less intelligence. Which is why the phrase bugs me. It therefore carries with it an implication that the person referring to the 'dumbing down' considers themselves to be intellectually superior to those who disagree with them. 'Agree with me or you're an idiot', which is hardly constructive. For the purposes of not being inflammatory on forums, I think it's more polite to write 'simplification' rather than 'dumbing down'.

On topic, doesn't it depend on the game, and on its style? I don't think a voiced protagonist would have worked in Origins, mostly for practical reasons. Two voice actors for each Origin would have cost such a lot that the game would probably have been about 5 hours long. And even then there were times it seemed weird, to have all these very talkative NPCs and an almost (aside from battle cries) completely silent player character.  A vp worked in Mass Effect, I thought.  The gamestyle was so cinematic that a passive protagonist surrounded by fully-voiced characters would have seemed incredibly out of place. Plus Shepard was more pre-defined than a character created from the ground-up. The same can be said of Hawke, who is customisable to about the same extent as Shep. And given that DA2 is also supposed to have a more cinematic presentation, it makes sense to hear her voice. IMO, obviously. x

[Tietj]

wowpwnslol wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Tietj wrote...
Honestly, I didn't think it DID work in Origins.  For one thing, my boyfriend never wanted to watch me play. 

And I don't see how a keyword/paraphrase system is dumbed down.  Simple and quick does not always equal dumb.

This.

My boyfriend has absolutely NO INTEREST in investing any time into DA:O. It was long, it was strange to see a barbie doll character with no emotional reaction to what was being said, and it was boring going through the dialogue trees.

If DA2 believes in order to reach a wider audience, they need to change their game, more power to them. I'm not going to grab the game like Smeagol and huddle in a corner screaming MINE.

Tell your boyfriend to go play MW2 - that might be more in line with his intelligence.

You're really not a very nice person.

But my point was that Origins was difficult to watch because the main character was SO devoid of any sort of personality.  Yeah, you can play pretend and make one up, but that's difficult to do when you're not the one actually playing.  Moondoggie's point above about the two systems being EXACTLY THE SAME, only you can hear one of them and not the other, is valid, and really should be the last word on this discussion.

[AllThatJazz]

wowpwnslol wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Tietj wrote...
Honestly, I didn't think it DID work in Origins.  For one thing, my boyfriend never wanted to watch me play. 

And I don't see how a keyword/paraphrase system is dumbed down.  Simple and quick does not always equal dumb.

This.

My boyfriend has absolutely NO INTEREST in investing any time into DA:O. It was long, it was strange to see a barbie doll character with no emotional reaction to what was being said, and it was boring going through the dialogue trees.

If DA2 believes in order to reach a wider audience, they need to change their game, more power to them. I'm not going to grab the game like Smeagol and huddle in a corner screaming MINE.

Tell your boyfriend to go play MW2 - that might be more in line with his intelligence.

Well that's just unnecessary and very mean-spirited. I don't know the fella, but if his partner's posts are anything to go by, he's probably rather clever. 

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 25 février 2011 - 10:17 .

[HolyJellyfish]

AllThatJazz wrote...
Well that's just unnecessary and very mean-spirited. I don't know the fella, but if his partner's posts are anything to go by, he's probably rather clever. 

Its no skin off my back. Insults are typical when debates run low and the other is incapable of bowing out courteously.

I find it hilarious that playing MW2 is the lowest one person can do according to his opinion. If that's suppose to be a harsh insult, I shudder to imagine what he considers a clever quip.

[Syrellaris]

Moondoggie wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Even so, the current choices are so limited that I am quite dissapointed in it. only 3 classes and 1 race to pick? I can understand they wish to put down a nice story for DA2, and the demo was awsome, but I think they could have done more with it.

I would even sacrifice voice for it, seeing as DA:O was a great even without it

I see the point you are trying to make and i'm a big Origins fan too but looking at the two forks in the road they could have taken it's probably the best in the long run. Okay they made some sacrifices  and it's become a bit more mainstream but we can expect an even more epic and dynamic game. And i'm glad they made a game that feels more inclusive and can branch out and attract a new audience as well as deliver to the current one.

I have pre ordered the game for the pc, since i prefer Pc gaming when it comes to this type of genre, however Having played the 360 version as well, I must say I am a bit concerned it became to mainstream.

There is only a marginable difference in interface, meaning its optimilized for the console versions as it plays like a complete and uther hack and slash game. Not something I am too thrilled about. Thankfully the pc version still allows you to pause the game with space bar, but I wonder how much freedom there is in it. considering it is as fast as it is.

Regardless, I loved the demo and will enjoy this game a lot.

[Syrellaris]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...
Well that's just unnecessary and very mean-spirited. I don't know the fella, but if his partner's posts are anything to go by, he's probably rather clever. 

Its no skin off my back. Insults are typical when debates run low and the other is incapable of bowing out courteously.

I find it hilarious that playing MW2 is the lowest one person can do according to his opinion. If that's suppose to be a harsh insult, I shudder to imagine what he considers a clever quip.

well from someone using wowpwnslol as a name, what type of intelligence did you think they would have. Clearly yours and that of many others are above him. The debate in that regard was heavily onesided to you

[AllThatJazz]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...
Well that's just unnecessary and very mean-spirited. I don't know the fella, but if his partner's posts are anything to go by, he's probably rather clever. 

Its no skin off my back. Insults are typical when debates run low and the other is incapable of bowing out courteously.

I find it hilarious that playing MW2 is the lowest one person can do according to his opinion. If that's suppose to be a harsh insult, I shudder to imagine what he considers a clever quip.

I think clever quip might also be 'go play MW2'.

OT: I think the Hawkes vo actors have done a good job of not being 'intrusive'. I loved both Sheps, but they (Hale in particular, I thought) had a LOT of personality. Which is great - if you happen to like that personality, not so good if you don't. Nicholas Boulton and Jo Wyatt sound less overpowering to me, which may be more appealing/less annoying to some of those who would normally really hate a vp. 

[Mutantsquirrel]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Tietj wrote...
Honestly, I didn't think it DID work in Origins.  For one thing, my boyfriend never wanted to watch me play. 

And I don't see how a keyword/paraphrase system is dumbed down.  Simple and quick does not always equal dumb.

This.

My boyfriend has absolutely NO INTEREST in investing any time into DA:O. It was long, it was strange to see a barbie doll character with no emotional reaction to what was being said, and it was boring going through the dialogue trees.

If DA2 believes in order to reach a wider audience, they need to change their game, more power to them. I'm not going to grab the game like Smeagol and huddle in a corner screaming MINE.

I can see why someone just watching the game would want a more cinematic experience, but I hope the developers of any game will never implement a feature simply to cater to the 'watcher' crowd rather than the 'player' crowd.  That would just be nonsense.

[BomimoDK]

What's this Bollocks about DA:O letting you decide the tone and meaning of the phrase? that's utter bull****. There's a set reply to your set phrase that fits ONE way of laying out the phrase. Sarcasm does not apply when the character you're conversing with replies as if it weren't there no matter how hard YOU say it was. You're essentially making **** up when you're telling us that we had the freedom to decide how the lines were spoken and what was behind it, because we hadn't.

DA:2 is still gonna be ME playing MY role making MY decisions. I decide what Hawke did and Hawke does what i damn well tell her/him. Hawke is me and i am Hawke and you can take any refuting made up nonsense to the nearest stupid house since you're obviously not getting what the devs had in mind with this game. DA2=DA2, the sequel to Dragon Age: Origins. If you argue you're watching Hawke/Shepards tale, then you're gonna have to say that you're not making the decisions and choosing the dialogue which again would be a flat out lie.

I'd love for people to stop making **** up to support their arguments, it makes them look utterly stupid and stupidity should not be encouraged or we'll have a global infection of the mentality that made USA the meddling pissy conservative cesspool that it is today. Ignorant ranting is NOT COOL!

It's fine to dislike the VO, but it's idiotic to use the watch vs play argument since it's just not valid.

Modifié par BomimoDK, 25 février 2011 - 11:34 .

[meeho]

I had to get used to the idea, but now i don't mind a voice, just not a high british voice. I can't place myself in a character that always talks like they got a stick up their ass.

[KLUME777]

I don't like it either (i hate it). But i haven't played the demo, and im not going to, even though Ive downloaded it. Im gonna play DA2 spoiler-free. I can wait 2 weeks. Can you?

[Moondoggie]

Syrellaris wrote...

I have pre ordered the game for the pc, since i prefer Pc gaming when it comes to this type of genre, however Having played the 360 version as well, I must say I am a bit concerned it became to mainstream.

There is only a marginable difference in interface, meaning its optimilized for the console versions as it plays like a complete and uther hack and slash game. Not something I am too thrilled about. Thankfully the pc version still allows you to pause the game with space bar, but I wonder how much freedom there is in it. considering it is as fast as it is.

Regardless, I loved the demo and will enjoy this game a lot.

The console version in the full game allows you to use the auto attack and pause the game too. Having tried both versions of the demo i think what they wanted to do is be more inclusive of console players. The problem with Origins is that it was really hard to play on the console compared to a PC so you need to work on that since the console market is so big alienating them would make little sense. Hence the optimisations.

As far as the PC version goes apart from a few changes to the inventory system and an awkwad camera it feels pretty much the same. Combat is pause and choose target and you slect abilities just the same. You can select tactics and micromanage to your hearts content. Just like in Origins without the slow two frames of combat animation.

[Relinquished2]

Mutantsquirrel wrote...

I thought giving the main character a voice (and a name even) was a bad idea.  It puts too many limits on the main character.  I knew I seemed to be in the minority on this, but I can't be the only one can I?

Dude, seriously? Have you chosen one of the hilarious dialogue options? Hilarious Hawke is hilarious!

*Bethany dies.*
Mom: "Oh, no!"
Carver: "Oh, no!"
Aveline: "Oh, no!"
Hawke: "Welp... at least dad has company now." *straight face*

ROFLMAO!

[Zigzaggy]

BomimoDK wrote...

I'd love for people to stop making **** up to support their arguments, it makes them look utterly stupid and stupidity should not be encouraged or we'll have a global infection of the mentality that made USA the meddling pissy conservative cesspool that it is today. Ignorant ranting is NOT COOL!

It's fine to dislike the VO, but it's idiotic to use the watch vs play argument since it's just not valid.

Hi Ron ..ick !

[Naitaka]

BomimoDK wrote...

What's this Bollocks about DA:O letting you decide the tone and meaning of the phrase? that's utter bull****. There's a set reply to your set phrase that fits ONE way of laying out the phrase. Sarcasm does not apply when the character you're conversing with replies as if it weren't there no matter how hard YOU say it was. You're essentially making **** up when you're telling us that we had the freedom to decide how the lines were spoken and what was behind it, because we hadn't.

DA:2 is still gonna be ME playing MY role making MY decisions. I decide what Hawke did and Hawke does what i damn well tell her/him. Hawke is me and i am Hawke and you can take any refuting made up nonsense to the nearest stupid house since you're obviously not getting what the devs had in mind with this game. DA2=DA2, the sequel to Dragon Age: Origins. If you argue you're watching Hawke/Shepards tale, then you're gonna have to say that you're not making the decisions and choosing the dialogue which again would be a flat out lie.

I'd love for people to stop making **** up to support their arguments, it makes them look utterly stupid and stupidity should not be encouraged or we'll have a global infection of the mentality that made USA the meddling pissy conservative cesspool that it is today. Ignorant ranting is NOT COOL!

Woh, calm down there buddy, no need to start calling names and swearing. I've said it earlier in this thread and I'll repeat it again. It's all about whether it's our character or an NPC that betrays our expectation. Every time Hawke says a line in a voice that I did not anticipate, it's going to make me view Hawke as a person with a mind of his own, who expresses himself in his own way.

For some, this is not a problem because they're contend to be the director instead of the actor himself. However, it's inconceivable to me to not know exactly what Hawke will say if I'm suppose to be Hawke himself. Often I'd just blurt out something that I totally didn't want to say or reveal information that I did not choose to reveal. This is not to say that the DA:O system is perfect, but it's much more plausible to think that a character might MISINTERPRET my tone instead of me suffering from some sort of multiple personality disorder.

Use the famous Zevran incident for example, it's very possible for someone like him to see sexual innuendo where none existed because he's just that kind of guy. However, I can't feel like that I'm in control of Hawke's character when I choose a compassionate/charming tone and he blurts out something that make him look like a complete and utter unsympathetic ass.

There's nothing wrong with DA2's take on role-playing nor would I call it anything other than an RPG, but it's in essence a different KIND of role playing than what Dragon Age: Origin offered. For those who came in expecting more of the same because that's what EA's marketing been saying the whole time, it's disheartening to see that it's in fact, not. Whether it's inferior or superior is an entirely subjective and a different topic altogether.

Modifié par Naitaka, 25 février 2011 - 12:10 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

No. You are not alone, OP. There's too much hand holding now: VA, wheel, icons. For me that means less room for role playing.

[Zigzaggy]

Moondoggie wrote...

The console version in the full game allows you to use the auto attack and pause the game too. Having tried both versions of the demo i think what they wanted to do is be more inclusive of console players. The problem with Origins is that it was really hard to play on the console compared to a PC so you need to work on that since the console market is so big alienating them would make little sense. Hence the optimisations.

As far as the PC version goes apart from a few changes to the inventory system and an awkwad camera it feels pretty much the same. Combat is pause and choose target and you slect abilities just the same.

Great , makes perfect sense....lets alienate those pesky PC platform players.

Lets force a camera view on them that has you fighting with the mouse even on low sensitivity selecting the next foe.

I think they have a similar mentality in Brazil towards the little street kids.