360 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

But there is also such a thing as innovation. It isn't a question of making it simple, merely giving the game more variety. I imagine it is more expensive to hire a VA, carefully execute spoken dialogue trees, focus on PC facial animation detail than it is to just add more text lines to a blank faced barbie doll of a character who doesn't so much as flinch when the love of your life says "OH HAI! I'm gonna go kill myself fo you and save th' world. K THNX BAI!!!!!"

Its not as "simple" as people make it out to be. In fact, its more costly and complex.

But your not giving the game more variety , you are giving it less variety by only having one character. In ME he's called Shepard, in DA2 he's called Hawke.

Compared to DA where you could have 6 different origins, how is this more variety?

[Moondoggie]

Zigzaggy wrote...

Great , makes perfect sense....lets alienate those pesky PC platform players.

Lets force a camera view on them that has you fighting with the mouse even on low sensitivity selecting the next foe.

I think they have a similar mentality in Brazil towards the little street kids.

They have not alienated PC players at all. Giving some breathing room to console players always seems to get a few PC players knickers in a twist and i never understand why. Just because they added new options that make it more accessible to console players doesn't mean they are alienating PC players.

And not sure at which point i felt the camera was the greatest thing in the world but i guess you needed something to pick on in what i said. The camera controls like arse but i'm willing to play the full game and not cry foul after playing the demo.

[meeho]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Tietj wrote...
Honestly, I didn't think it DID work in Origins.  For one thing, my boyfriend never wanted to watch me play. 

And I don't see how a keyword/paraphrase system is dumbed down.  Simple and quick does not always equal dumb.

This.

My boyfriend has absolutely NO INTEREST in investing any time into DA:O. It was long, it was strange to see a barbie doll character with no emotional reaction to what was being said, and it was boring going through the dialogue trees.

If DA2 believes in order to reach a wider audience, they need to change their game, more power to them. I'm not going to grab the game like Smeagol and huddle in a corner screaming MINE.

I don't see any appeal in watching other people play, especially when i can play the game myself. From what I hear from other people it seems more a girlfriend thing to do to watch their bf's/guys play games, but that's probably pretty rare too.

[AkiKishi]

BomimoDK wrote...

What's this Bollocks about DA:O letting you decide the tone and meaning of the phrase? that's utter bull****. There's a set reply to your set phrase that fits ONE way of laying out the phrase. Sarcasm does not apply when the character you're conversing with replies as if it weren't there no matter how hard YOU say it was. You're essentially making **** up when you're telling us that we had the freedom to decide how the lines were spoken and what was behind it, because we hadn't.

DA:2 is still gonna be ME playing MY role making MY decisions. I decide what Hawke did and Hawke does what i damn well tell her/him. Hawke is me and i am Hawke and you can take any refuting made up nonsense to the nearest stupid house since you're obviously not getting what the devs had in mind with this game. DA2=DA2, the sequel to Dragon Age: Origins. If you argue you're watching Hawke/Shepards tale, then you're gonna have to say that you're not making the decisions and choosing the dialogue which again would be a flat out lie.

I'd love for people to stop making **** up to support their arguments, it makes them look utterly stupid and stupidity should not be encouraged or we'll have a global infection of the mentality that made USA the meddling pissy conservative cesspool that it is today. Ignorant ranting is NOT COOL!

It's fine to dislike the VO, but it's idiotic to use the watch vs play argument since it's just not valid.

Ignorance is bliss it seems.

No, what you do it pick a key phrase and hope it comes out with the intended dialogue.

I certainly did not want "He won't be alone" to come out as "Hey mom you know dads dead too at least bro will have company" or words to that effect and sound like a total tool

But then Hawke is not my character he's a pre-gernerated character that Bioware wrote the story around.

[Zigzaggy]

Moondoggie wrote...

Zigzaggy wrote...

Great , makes perfect sense....lets alienate those pesky PC platform players.

Lets force a camera view on them that has you fighting with the mouse even on low sensitivity selecting the next foe.

I think they have a similar mentality in Brazil towards the little street kids.

They have not alienated PC players at all. Giving some breathing room to console players always seems to get a few PC players knickers in a twist and i never understand why. Just because they added new options that make it more accessible to console players doesn't mean they are alienating PC players.

And not sure at which point i felt the camera was the greatest thing in the world but i guess you needed something to pick on in what i said. The camera controls like arse but i'm willing to play the full game and not cry foul after playing the demo.

Hmmm...I can see the effort would be wasted.

have a nice day.

[Tleining]

@ BobSmith101

because there weren't really any differences in the storyline based on your Origin. There were a handful of instances, were your Origin was referenced. But overall, nothing. Now you have your Family, they will have to deal with the loss of a family member, they will be with you over the entire storyline, shaping the world and your character

[Selidor]

I really like the addition of full voice for the protagonist. I always thought it was kind of awkward to have the Warden mute and expressionless when you selected lines off the screen, and even though they were supposed to be the protagonist I thought they felt kind of distant from the events in the game. Hawke feels a lot better integrated into the story and world.



The only thing I don't like about the new dialogue options is that they don't give you the actual line, just a suggestion of it.

[moilami]

Sabiancym wrote...

I agree, it takes away from the "It's my story" feeling.

In origins I was the hero. In 2, I'm watching the hero.

No, ur the Champion in DA2. Ready to ascend.

[moilami]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Tietj wrote...
Honestly, I didn't think it DID work in Origins.  For one thing, my boyfriend never wanted to watch me play. 

And I don't see how a keyword/paraphrase system is dumbed down.  Simple and quick does not always equal dumb.

This.

My boyfriend has absolutely NO INTEREST in investing any time into DA:O. It was long, it was strange to see a barbie doll character with no emotional reaction to what was being said, and it was boring going through the dialogue trees.

If DA2 believes in order to reach a wider audience, they need to change their game, more power to them. I'm not going to grab the game like Smeagol and huddle in a corner screaming MINE.

I bet you have very good, uh, "unmentionables" then.

[Oerwein]

Sabiancym wrote...

I agree, it takes away from the "It's my story" feeling.

In origins I was the hero. In 2, I'm watching the hero.

signed

kinda dislike the constraints for character creation

[astrobot702]

i think the voice suits the game SINCE THIS IS NOT DAO, GET OVER IT.. I'm actually ok with Mass Effect-ing of DA2. I thought I was going to be infinitely repulsed by it but it moves the game forward towards a franchise scale. I can see that DA2 is being pushed an epic style which is very visible in Flemeth's first appearance in human form. The voicing keeps the focus on Hawke (whereas with The Warden the sound scoring really had to be well executed to keep the mood of the game continuity.)

[AngryFrozenWater]

Sabiancym wrote...

I agree, it takes away from the "It's my story" feeling.

In origins I was the hero. In 2, I'm watching the hero.

You've hit the nail on the head. A voiced PC and third person controlled PC feels like watching someone else. A mute character in first person view feels more like I am playing that character.

[The_Illusive]

Nah, I like this Hawke guy. I like his hair and beard, he looks good in blood (I'm not an emo), but I think I'll make his neck a little thicker

[AkiKishi]

Tleining wrote...

@ BobSmith101
because there weren't really any differences in the storyline based on your Origin. There were a handful of instances, were your Origin was referenced. But overall, nothing. Now you have your Family, they will have to deal with the loss of a family member, they will be with you over the entire storyline, shaping the world and your character

There are , but you being a Grey Warden takes priority over them.

It's not my character It's Biowares pre-gen character.If it were my character I would know what it was going to say before they said it.

[Panda Muffins]

I prefer voice to no voice.

[RedWulfi]

Love the characters having voices. Yeah they dont exactly say what you choose but I think people should think before picking what to say. Or if thats the case save before you talk to someone so if you do say something you didnt have in mind you can reload it

[The_Illusive]

^That's kinda lame...

[AkiKishi]

AndersIsLush wrote...

Love the characters having voices. Yeah they dont exactly say what you choose but I think people should think before picking what to say. Or if thats the case save before you talk to someone so if you do say something you didnt have in mind you can reload it

The "top" path seems ok. It's when you delve into the "lower" paths that you get a character acting like a tool when that is not the intent.
It's the same with ME Renegade Shepard is an ass, you can't play it any other way.

[TheRealJayDee]

Naitaka wrote...

For some, this is not a problem because they're contend to be the director instead of the actor himself.

I'd be happier with having the voiced protagonist if I'd actually feel at least like a director. But a prequisite for this would be to able to tell my actor exactly what lines he's supposed to say. Which, with the addition of the paraphrase wheel system, I'm not. It's like watching some big improvisation, and only being able to throw in some "okay, yeah, great, now respond with... anger! Good, very good. Okay, now be a total dick. Nice...!".

[AllThatJazz]

meeho wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Tietj wrote...
Honestly, I didn't think it DID work in Origins.  For one thing, my boyfriend never wanted to watch me play. 

And I don't see how a keyword/paraphrase system is dumbed down.  Simple and quick does not always equal dumb.

This.

My boyfriend has absolutely NO INTEREST in investing any time into DA:O. It was long, it was strange to see a barbie doll character with no emotional reaction to what was being said, and it was boring going through the dialogue trees.

If DA2 believes in order to reach a wider audience, they need to change their game, more power to them. I'm not going to grab the game like Smeagol and huddle in a corner screaming MINE.

I don't see any appeal in watching other people play, especially when i can play the game myself. From what I hear from other people it seems more a girlfriend thing to do to watch their bf's/guys play games, but that's probably pretty rare too.

I used to love watching my husband play Deus Ex. Sometimes because he was just really good at being a shoot 'em up type, whereas my playthrough was more diplomatic/stealthy so it was great fun to see such a different way of playing. And sometimes so that I could snigger when he died and point out where he'd gone wrong  and how to do it better:devil:. Ah, the joys of being a backseat driver!  

[AkiKishi]

AllThatJazz wrote...

I used to love watching my husband play Deus Ex. Sometimes because he was just really good at being a shoot 'em up type, whereas my playthrough was more diplomatic/stealthy so it was great fun to see such a different way of playing. And sometimes so that I could snigger when he died and point out where he'd gone wrong  and how to do it better:devil:. Ah, the joys of being a backseat driver!  

My GF was like that all the time. She hated playing Final Fantasy but loved watching the cutscenes. I hated having someone looking over my shoulder the whole time.

[Naitaka]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

I'd be happier with having the voiced protagonist if I'd actually feel at least like a director. But a prequisite for this would be to able to tell my actor exactly what lines he's supposed to say. Which, with the addition of the paraphrase wheel system, I'm not. It's like watching some big improvisation, and only being able to throw in some "okay, yeah, great, now respond with... anger! Good, very good. Okay, now be a total dick. Nice...!".

But actors DO improvised all the time, well some do anyway. Like in Devil Wears Prada, Emily Blunt improvised many of her lines including that famous quote at the end of the movie. A good director-actor relationship depends on mutual respect and it's a director's job to encourage actors to give their best performance.

Modifié par Naitaka, 25 février 2011 - 01:46 .

[AllThatJazz]

BobSmith101 wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

I used to love watching my husband play Deus Ex. Sometimes because he was just really good at being a shoot 'em up type, whereas my playthrough was more diplomatic/stealthy so it was great fun to see such a different way of playing. And sometimes so that I could snigger when he died and point out where he'd gone wrong  and how to do it better:devil:. Ah, the joys of being a backseat driver!  

My GF was like that all the time. She hated playing Final Fantasy but loved watching the cutscenes. I hated having someone looking over my shoulder the whole time.

Well he gets his own back by teasing me mercilessly whenever I make one of my attempts at playing a FPS or driving game. He still reminds me of the time we played one of the Halos together. I spent aeons trying to find my way out of a small room, then wandered  off in the wrong direction (by which time he'd almost cleared the level by himself). He left me one enemy, which promptly killed me because I couldn't remember how to reload my gun.  What goes around comes around, I guess.

[Drachjinor]

In Exile wrote...

What you get is to RP a Grey Warden who use to be a City Elf, or a Circle Mage, or a Casteless dwarf.

A Grey Warden Mage who has to return to the Circle s/he was raised in and with full knowledge of what it's like to be under the oppressive gaze of the Chantry and Templars as a Mage. If you play a Warrior Human you don't get that insight, and would possibly side with the Templars as you'd be ignorant to the plight of Mages and the many ways to tell an abomination and apostate from a genuine, free-thinking, true to the Chantry and laws of the Circle-type Mage.

Or you can be a Grey Warden wielding Warden Treaties returning to his dwarven city as a Casteless Dwarf, knowing well how his fellow dwarves feel about the branded Casteless and their place in society, and having a full grasp of what it is to be oppressed and to lack any status at all. It is an interesting position to be in, and an interesting role-play experience. Who will he side with... ?

... DA:2 can't offer anything like this with one human character and a choice of three classes. You get a total of ONE experience, with slight tweaks in decisions you make and replay value sucks a big fat something. Light Side or Dark Side, you decide! The choices are limitless, if two can be considered limitless. But hey you have as many romance options as you got in DA:O so I suppose they're identical, really. Hhmmmlol. Oh and you play the same guy or gal both times! EPIC! There is no character creation here. They stole it away like some kind of... sneaky... witch-thieves!

So I think you're wrong in saying you don't lose anything, and about any problems I have being some magically non-scripted inconsequential things that are all part of my imagination. NPC reactions to dwarves are different to Dalish elves, and noble humans. DA:2 reactions to Hawke will be reactions to the most common race in the setting. No surprises on this front. DA:2 is way more restricted than DA:O. I get a deep understanding from the varying origins and races and can role-play to the strengths and weaknesses of individual characters across replays in DA:O. That's a lot of role-playing.

A warrior having never had a discussion about the relationship between the Circle and Chantry might well side with the Templars in a second flat, ignorance guiding his choice. I'd have to use the dialogue as a guide in the game to decide whether or not my warrior is capable of making an informed decision about who he sides with in this situation, and who he is likely to side with if he can't make an informed decision. Rather than using some out of the game non-scripted knowledge about what I already know from my first Mage play-through. Knowledge my warrior character would never have. A Mage would likely sympathise with the Mages. A dwarf wouldn't fear magic so much, but being from a Caste society might choose the thing he understands, which again would be the warrior, straightforward and to-the-point Templars. "Straight to business, all this hokery-pokery magical nonsense should probably be eradicated." DA:2 is nowhere near 'about the same' as DA:O when it comes to these experiences.

AlanC9 wrote...

You know, for someone who talked about how important replayability is, you don't seem to do that much actual replaying. 

Who am I, Johnny Q Bendstime? The date under my name on this forum is the date I installed DA:O. 80 hours on DA:O, around 20 hours on DA:O-A and on my second play of DA:O now. That's not bad given the time it's been installed on my rig. lol As I said, I'm very late to the party because I've been playing other games all this time. DA:O and Awakening have been sitting on my shelf for months, I nearly installed it a while back when I realised the Shale redeem code had an expiration date, but I didn't, and even though it was apparently out of date the code still worked when I eventually did use it.  I've been playing and replaying Fallout 3 and its DLC as well as dicking around with the GECK, and played New Vegas through three times, and WAR every other day. Heh.

Believe me, DA:O is gonna get some attention and many a replay. I'm still to buy and install a few more DLCs I fancy too. I would normally have hopped straight off given a sequel is around a corner, but now that I've seen the sequel I'm not all that interested. However I got a text from my brother this morning saying he's pre-ordered it for my birthday. Deciding now whether or not I should tell him to cancel it. lol

Modifié par Drachjinor, 25 février 2011 - 02:47 .

[Maconbar]

Naitaka wrote...

 I've said it earlier in this thread and I'll repeat it again. It's all about whether it's our character or an NPC that betrays our expectation. Every time Hawke says a line in a voice that I did not anticipate, it's going to make me view Hawke as a person with a mind of his own, who expresses himself in his own way.

For some, this is not a problem because they're contend to be the director instead of the actor himself. However, it's inconceivable to me to not know exactly what Hawke will say if I'm suppose to be Hawke himself. Often I'd just blurt out something that I totally didn't want to say or reveal information that I did not choose to reveal. This is not to say that the DA:O system is perfect, but it's much more plausible to think that a character might MISINTERPRET my tone instead of me suffering from some sort of multiple personality disorder.

Use the famous Zevran incident for example, it's very possible for someone like him to see sexual innuendo where none existed because he's just that kind of guy. However, I can't feel like that I'm in control of Hawke's character when I choose a compassionate/charming tone and he blurts out something that make him look like a complete and utter unsympathetic ass.

There's nothing wrong with DA2's take on role-playing nor would I call it anything other than an RPG, but it's in essence a different KIND of role playing than what Dragon Age: Origin offered. For those who came in expecting more of the same because that's what EA's marketing been saying the whole time, it's disheartening to see that it's in fact, not. Whether it's inferior or superior is an entirely subjective and a different topic altogether.

I am in the camp that is generally pleased with the shift to voiced PC. When I play most video games, I feel as though I am directing that character. I am currently playing PS:T and feel that way. I am perfectly happy playing PS:T that way. It's a fun game as it is. I don't think that PS:T is a worse game because it lacks a fully voiced PC.

I am glad that DA:2 is switching to voiced because I think that it better fits with the companions. However, I totally understand the sense that many have about loss of player agency. I noticed it in the demo.

I am not sure about the blame toward EA marketing in this case. Voiced PC was one of the first things that I knew of regarding DA:2. I am not an EA marketing apologist, however; they have made tons of mistakes in my mind. Anyone that is interested check out this installment of Extra Credits @ The Escapist

www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2794-An-Open-Letter-to-EA-Marketing