360 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Drachjinor wrote...

Obsidian pretty much said, "Yeah he was Revan. Sorry. These were his plans, the first game was his redemption, and he was always that guy regardless of what your input was." My character in the first became something else entirely in the sequel. He became the character BioWare created before I the player got involved. A mad man with a crazy plot to strengthen the Republic. It made no sense at all. lol

I judge each game on its own merits.  And KotOR2 wasn't very good (it had one good feature - the ability to run a full squad without the Exile in it).

[Falmung]

I am with you. I'm pretty sure even skyrim will continue to use dialogue the same way it has always done not showing the face or voice of the character. Adding a voice to the main character limits what he can say. I would had preferred they kept it as Dragon Age 1 but with better improved cut scenes.

[Fangirl17]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fangirl17 wrote...

Plus playing through ME2 helped get used to a voiced PC.

Playing ME and ME2 only served to demonstrate to me what a bad idea a voiced protagonist is.

I thought it did take away from the roleplaying experience ALOT but it was still enjoyable  Hopefully in DA2 they pull away from defining our character like in ME.

Edit:Not that Im completely for voiced PC Im just being optomistic.

Modifié par Fangirl17, 24 février 2011 - 12:09 .

[Ninotchka]

Mutantsquirrel wrote...

I thought giving the main character a voice (and a name even) was a bad idea.  It puts too many limits on the main character.  I knew I seemed to be in the minority on this, but I can't be the only one can I?

I don't mind a voiced PC and I absolutely love Fem Hawke's voice for my PC.

But I do feel for those RP'ers who don't like this change. It was a big one to accept. Perhaps later on, some tech savvy modder will be able to create some sort of Mute Hawke mod, leaving the subtitled dialogue on the top of the screen. 

[TheRealJayDee]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Mutantsquirrel wrote...

Am I the only one who dislikes the main character having a voice?

Far from it.  I think it's an entirely unnecessary feature, and I think the current implementation of that feature badly harms gameplay.

This.

After playing the demo I know I definetly can't play the male Hawke(s) I planned. The voice just doesn't fit what I had in mind at all. Now I will have to build a character around that voice, which will be fun too, but far less than realising my very own Champion. Worst case is I won't be able to finish more than one playthrough, because I can't seperate the voice from the first Hawke I created. Same with Mass Effect, after my Infiltrator game I really wanted to play a second time with a biotic character, but I just couldn't stand listening to the new Nathaniel Shepard speaking with the voice of the old Jack Shepard. Never had a problem like this with my different Couslands. Well, maybe I'm a little eccentric, but...

[darklordpocky-san]

Kinda sucks that everything my character (though it's a character, rather than mine) says is paraphrased from 3 choices. I rather liked having so many options and being the silent protagonist.



Maybe I'm just old-school about it, but the dialogue wheel worked well in ME, since we were playing Shepard, and in DA it kind of works, now that we're playing Hawke. Before, we were spoiled in Origins, when we were mostly playing our own character, so I think it's more or less a disconnect for us.

[Sereaph502]

Giving a voice to the main character is practically required when telling a story about a character. IE: Mass Effect, Dragon Age 2.



Having a silent protagonist works better when you can create your character from scratch, allowing you to shape your character into whoever you want. IE: Dragon Age: Origins.



If you didn't like ME because the character had a voice, or the DA2 demo because the character has a voice, then these obviously aren't your type of games, and I'd suggest sticking to games such as NWN, NWN2, BG1/2, and all other RPGs that allow you to make a character from scratch.

[darklordpocky-san]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Mutantsquirrel wrote...

Am I the only one who dislikes the main character having a voice?

Far from it.  I think it's an entirely unnecessary feature, and I think the current implementation of that feature badly harms gameplay.

This.

After playing the demo I know I definetly can't play the male Hawke(s) I planned. The voice just doesn't fit what I had in mind at all. Now I will have to build a character around that voice, which will be fun too, but far less than realising my very own Champion. Worst case is I won't be able to finish more than one playthrough, because I can't seperate the voice from the first Hawke I created. Same with Mass Effect, after my Infiltrator game I really wanted to play a second time with a biotic character, but I just couldn't stand listening to the new Nathaniel Shepard speaking with the voice of the old Jack Shepard. Never had a problem like this with my different Couslands. Well, maybe I'm a little eccentric, but...

I kinda see what you mean. I usually like to replay a game and appreciate the differences from one class/morality choice/race/etc. In ME, you can usually get passed the "been there, done that" by either going male/female or paragon/renagade. Although in DA:O, we got several unique opening missions, 3 races, gender choice, 3 classes and a plethora of other choices, that helped to make replays fun and always unique.

I will say this though; the first character is always the one I usually connect with more (Reina Amell)

Modifié par darklordpocky-san, 24 février 2011 - 12:30 .

[FieryDove]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I judge each game on its own merits.  And KotOR2 wasn't very good (it had one good feature - the ability to run a full squad without the Exile in it).

You forgot they improved blasters a bit. I had fun running a *blaster* Jedi.

And Kreia was cool. imho

Edit:

OP, Voice is all well and good if you like the voice and voice direction. If not the game goes in the trash or many foul words are spoken to your poor innocent monitor.

Modifié par FieryDove, 24 février 2011 - 12:32 .

[_Somebody]

I agree with you, OP.

It helps though if the character has a good voice. So far femhawke and malehawke seem good. But in all I prefer silent main characters. 

Modifié par Somebody, 24 février 2011 - 12:34 .

[Layn]

Sereaph502 wrote...

If you didn't like ME because the character had a voice, or the DA2 demo because the character has a voice, then these obviously aren't your type of games, and I'd suggest sticking to games such as NWN, NWN2, BG1/2, and all other RPGs that allow you to make a character from scratch.

please tell me which recent RPGs allow me to make a character from scratch (btw. in DA2 it's as much from scratch as in DA:O. the only difference is that the voice is defined, and the dialog choices are a lot more limited and its very difficult to predict what the character is going to say)

i don't mind voiced characters. but i was hoping the dragon age franchise would be roleplaying heaven for me

[Malanek]

Eurypterid wrote...

Cat Lance wrote...

Yeah, voiced prot is definitely not something I'm looking forward to. I hated it in Mass Effect. It was usually fine, but when it wasn't right it stuck out so bad it usually had me yelling at my screen.

I actually really like having my protagonist voiced. I'm not too bothered about whether or not she/he sounds like I imagined, but what really grinds my gears is when they don't actually voice what the dialog choice makes you think they're going to. Yeah, I can see getting into a bit of a yelling match with the screen on that one.

So I don't think it's so much an issue with having the protagonist voiced as it is with not giving the player a proper idea what any particular choice is going to make the character say.

Agreed. Playing a voiced main character does not require the paraphrased dialogue wheel. The are related but individual game aspects.

[Fromyou]

To be honest I was actually upset about the main character in Dragon age 1 not having a voice. I like the voice because it just seems more real to me then picking a set of words and it helps with tone. Don't get me wrong I was fine with Dragon Age 1, but still I prefer the voice.

[Vaeliorin]

Drachjinor wrote...
I suppose later, probably around the time I was playing KotOR II: Sith Lords I started to hate the choices BioWare made for KotOR. It allowed Obsidian to pretty much **** on the character of the first game (my character) from an immense height. It wasn't in doubt any longer if he accepted that he was who BioWare said he was... or that his new indentity and new experiences shaped him anew, and belonged to the player.

Obsidian pretty much said, "Yeah he was Revan. Sorry. These were his plans, the first game was his redemption, and he was always that guy regardless of what your input was." My character in the first became something else entirely in the sequel. He became the character BioWare created before I the player got involved. A mad man with a crazy plot to strengthen the Republic. It made no sense at all. lol

To be fair, that wasn't Obsidian, that was LucasArts.  The Star Wars Universe always has canon for everything.

On topic...I greatly dislike having the main character voiced in a game that claims to be an RPG.

[Wynne]

Eurypterid wrote...

I actually really like having my protagonist voiced. I'm not too bothered about whether or not she/he sounds like I imagined, but what really grinds my gears is when they don't actually voice what the dialog choice makes you think they're going to. Yeah, I can see getting into a bit of a yelling match with the screen on that one.

So I don't think it's so much an issue with having the protagonist voiced as it is with not giving the player a proper idea what any particular choice is going to make the character say.

I could not agree with you more. I love voice, but even I had some moments during ME1&2 like Cat did, what with the yelling at the screen. It has to be clear what you're going to say or it's inevitably frustrating.

foam wrote...

Oh, and I don't get the "boring" or
"lifeless" protagonist thing. If you lack the imagination to do some
roleplaying in a game, why play a role playing game?

The error you're making (not to sound like you're alone; it is the  fundamental attribution error after all, so everybody makes it sometime) is asking the wrong (leading) question. If I want to play that kind of roleplaying game, I'll play tabletop D&D because the freedom is infinitely superior in EVERY way. What is not superior is the feeling of actually stepping into the role of an authentic character which belongs in the world; into shoes that are not generic, not one-size-fits-all. That kind of feeling is for Bioware RPGs, and games like the Witcher with an actually defined protagonist (as opposed to Hawke, who is merely semi-defined.) 

I have plenty of imagination. I used to write little novellas as a kid, I ran my own RPG group, I still regularly play D&D and Vampire with my own originally created characters. So why on earth would I ask a game to deliver a pale shadow, a lifeless illusion of freedom of dialogue and character when it ensures that every option must be as bland as possible so as not to interfere with what the player might want to imagine? If you think the freedom to imagine awesome things happening is the only thing that's fun in a CRPG, seriously go to the Elder Scrolls forums right now, because that's what you're looking for and you'll be much happier there. 

As for me, I don't ask a game like this to deliver a tabletop or LARP experience because that's simply not even possible. It will always fall short if that's what a person requires. What I ask is to be entertained and given a certain amount of freedom. So, personally, I'm happy to let the writers set some limits and borders if it improves my character's involvement in the world and makes her more lifelike, more a part of her environment.

I can imagine a protagonist anytime I want. I can write fanfiction if I want to detail my Hawke to my own specifications. But if I'm playing a game, I'd rather have a clear set of choices at my fingertips than an almost-undefined protagonist who never speaks or emotes lest that offend someone's delicate sensibilities.

[Sereaph502]

Crrash wrote...

Sereaph502 wrote...

If you didn't like ME because the character had a voice, or the DA2 demo because the character has a voice, then these obviously aren't your type of games, and I'd suggest sticking to games such as NWN, NWN2, BG1/2, and all other RPGs that allow you to make a character from scratch.

please tell me which recent RPGs allow me to make a character from scratch (btw. in DA2 it's as much from scratch as in DA:O. the only difference is that the voice is defined, and the dialog choices are a lot more limited and its very difficult to predict what the character is going to say)

i don't mind voiced characters. but i was hoping the dragon age franchise would be roleplaying heaven for me

As I said: Not your type of game.  It's not Bioware's fault in the slightest for what's happening: DA2 is clearly defined as "X person's story", not "your own personalized character's story"

And why did I say go back to older games?  Because the newer generation of games will have voice acting in them.  They will have the main character being voiced, and the "older" generation of gamers will have to adapt to this.  I have older in quotes because I also came from the age of BG1/2, Icewind Dale, and all that stuff.  While I still like games in which you put your own personality in your character (and hence no voice), I also like games where the main character is defined and has a voice.

Tell me I have a short attention span all you want, but I prefer listening to a game's conversations and everything else, not having to sit there for a few minutes reading everything.

It really is a shame that some people can't seem to move onto the new generation of gaming, voices and all.  I loath saying this and try not to whenever I can, but you'll just have to deal with it, or not play the game.  Bioware and other companies are going to continue moving foward with their games, not move backwards into the age of no voice acting with text everywhere just because a few die-hards absolutely hate voice, since the majority of gamers would rather have voice acting rather than having to read everything.

[String910]

I liked the DAO dialogue sistem but i love the one from DA 2.

[_Somebody]

Crrash wrote...

Sereaph502 wrote...

If you didn't like ME because the character had a voice, or the DA2 demo because the character has a voice, then these obviously aren't your type of games, and I'd suggest sticking to games such as NWN, NWN2, BG1/2, and all other RPGs that allow you to make a character from scratch.

please tell me which recent RPGs allow me to make a character from scratch (btw. in DA2 it's as much from scratch as in DA:O. the only difference is that the voice is defined, and the dialog choices are a lot more limited and its very difficult to predict what the character is going to say)

i don't mind voiced characters. but i was hoping the dragon age franchise would be roleplaying heaven for me

This. I liked DAO for what it was. Didnt like the dialogue wheel, or the voiced PC in ME.

Modifié par Somebody, 24 février 2011 - 12:50 .

[Mutantsquirrel]

Crrash wrote...

please tell me which recent RPGs allow me to make a character from scratch (btw. in DA2 it's as much from scratch as in DA:O. the only difference is that the voice is defined, and the dialog choices are a lot more limited and its very difficult to predict what the character is going to say)

i don't mind voiced characters. but i was hoping the dragon age franchise would be roleplaying heaven for me

Are you serious?  Besides the already HUGE differences you pointed out yourself, don't forget the fact that you could choose between 3 races and 6 backgrounds.  Also you were alotted a certain amount of attribute pts to allocate to build your character exactly how you wanted.  Now this last one may be different in the full game of DA2, but so far in the demo all I can see for character creation is choose sex, choose class, choose looks.

[Ex_Everest]

I don't object; I can swing both ways. Now the dialogue wheel which is difficult to interpret (for me), is another case.

[DanteGunZ]

I liked Shepard in Mass Effect, I have no problem with voiced or non-voiced characters. I'm perfectly fine having either.

Modifié par DanteGunZ, 24 février 2011 - 12:53 .

[PyramidHead15]

I dislike Silent Protagonists. Even when I can pick their choices it just feels lifeless to me with their blank stares into space..

[Teh Chozen Wun]

His voice is sexier then Chuck Norris's voice. So I don't object. Although I'd prefer to have Liam Neeson as the narrator but beggars can't be choosers. Also silent protagonists don't make sense at all in video games. At least in dice you can imagine your character talking whatever looking lifeful but in video games silent characters are devoid of emotions and are purely just puppets.

Modifié par Teh Chozen Wun, 24 février 2011 - 12:57 .

[Drachjinor]

Sereaph502 wrote...

Giving a voice to the main character is practically required when telling a story about a character. IE: Mass Effect, Dragon Age 2.

But... when you create an RPG setting, you don't sit all the players down as the DM/GM and then tell them who they're playing. That's not a role-playing setting. You simply don't write RPGs that way. If you're writing an action/adventure or survival horror, or turn-based strategy game, fine, give the player a character like Marcus Fenix, or Lara Croft, or Jill Valentine, or Cloud, and write the story accordingly.

Me thinks the ability to provide a good story that a player created character (generated from a vast array of classes, and races, and alignments and skill sets) can occupy successfully IS a sure indicator as to the talent of a good RPG writer. Seems the writers at BioWare have lost that ability in their own settings. When they're handling the licensed stuff from genuine RPG origins like Forgotten Realms it doesn't seem to be a problem, though.

I know PC RPGamers who have characters that relate to one another over different play-throughs, lol, with their  backgrounds written out, and everything from their extended family to their tiny pet peeves either written down or locked in some mental treasure chest that opens if you ask about their characters. Beats the hell out of 'alleged' role-players starting every conversation about their characters with, "Well, my Hawke..."

IMHO

Modifié par Drachjinor, 24 février 2011 - 01:01 .

[Wrathra]

No, you're not. I hate it.