360 réponses à ce sujet

[Merced652]

Rockworm503 wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

The voice doesn't really limit anything becasue you still only have a few preset dialogue options. Even in Origins you picked what your Warden sounded like. Also, the name is really no different then in Origins because you had a set last name, people just refer to you as it now. I don't really see what the big difference is.

How often you pick on a dialog option only to have it totally mean something else to who you were talking to.
Like saying something to Alistair in the intention of being funny or nice to him only to ****** him off.
It was nice to have no voice for a while because you decide how your character sounded in your head but then people you were talking to misunderstand you and any chance of that goes out the window.

I for one welcome the voice protagonist and understand why there are only 3 options.  The amount of voice recording it would take would take forever.

Because that never happens IRL? :innocent:

If anything picking the line you want to say as a silent protag and then having them misunderstand is just a avenue for more roleplay because now theres that added dimension to your character's relationship with that companion. If you're gayming the system to max approval or something, which seems to me to be the only reason to really care if they misunderstood you, then by all means reload.

Modifié par Merced652, 24 février 2011 - 01:39 .

[Layn]

Wynne wrote...

The error you're making (not to sound like you're alone; it is the  fundamental attribution error after all, so everybody makes it sometime) is asking the wrong (leading) question. If I want to play that kind of roleplaying game, I'll play tabletop D&D because the freedom is infinitely superior in EVERY way. What is not superior is the feeling of actually stepping into the role of an authentic character which belongs in the world; into shoes that are not generic, not one-size-fits-all. That kind of feeling is for Bioware RPGs, and games like the Witcher with an actually defined protagonist (as opposed to Hawke, who is merely semi-defined.) 

i wish i could do P&P RPGs, but i've had a really hard time getting people together to play it and lately it has been hard to find a moment where we all have time to do some RPing... a real shame. That's why i loved DA:O. i can play a RPG like that without bringing a group together for it.

Sereaph502 wrote...

As
I said: Not your type of game.  It's not Bioware's fault in the
slightest for what's happening: DA2 is clearly defined as "X person's
story", not "your own personalized character's story"

it is my type of game. Heck i love most kinds of games, and i still think DA2 will be good... just not what i wanted from the DA franchise.

Sereaph502 wrote...

And why did
I say go back to older games?  Because the newer generation of games
will have voice acting in them.  They will have the main character being
voiced, and the "older" generation of gamers will have to adapt to
this.  I have older in quotes because I also came from the age of BG1/2,
Icewind Dale, and all that stuff.  While I still like games in which
you put your own personality in your character (and hence no voice), I
also like games where the main character is defined and has a voice.

and i still play the old games, it's just, why not make new games like this too? it's not inferior. just because you CAN voice the player character, you don't have to. it gives a completely different experience, a kind of experience that should exist too.

Sereaph502 wrote...

Tell
me I have a short attention span all you want, but I prefer listening
to a game's conversations and everything else, not having to sit there
for a few minutes reading everything.

i don't, it's just a different way to experience RPGs. You like watching the characters talk (me too btw.) but i prefer living in their skin.

Sereaph502 wrote...

It really is a shame that
some people can't seem to move onto the new generation of gaming, voices
and all.  I loath saying this and try not to whenever I can, but you'll
just have to deal with it, or not play the game.  Bioware and other
companies are going to continue moving foward with their games, not move
backwards into the age of no voice acting with text everywhere just
because a few die-hards absolutely hate voice, since the majority of
gamers would rather have voice acting rather than having to read
everything.

how is it moving forward if it's completely altering the game experience? it's going a completely different path. I don't have anything against what you call "the new generation of gaming" (actually i do have something against how games have developed in the past 2 or 3 years. but i don't feel like getting into this, after all, i still like those games) but i really'd like games to not become exclusively interactive movies.

Mutantsquirrel wrote...

Crrash wrote...

please tell me which recent RPGs allow me to make a character from scratch (btw. in
DA2 it's as much from scratch as in DA:O. the only difference is that
the voice is defined, and the dialog choices are a lot more limited and
its very difficult to predict what the character is going to say)

i don't mind voiced characters. but i was hoping the dragon age franchise would be roleplaying heaven for me

Are
you serious?  Besides the already HUGE differences you pointed out
yourself, don't forget the fact that you could choose between 3 races
and 6 backgrounds.  Also you were alotted a certain amount of attribute
pts to allocate to build your character exactly how you wanted.  Now
this last one may be different in the full game of DA2, but so far in
the demo all I can see for character creation is choose sex, choose
class, choose looks.

oh right, and we only have one origin. i keep forgetting about that detail because i see this as the human commoner origin, who just wasn't included in DA:O because his adventure is completely different.

[hobbit of the shire]

Yes, I think that having voiced dialogue means you have to simplify choices, else you have a gazillion threads one has to record. So, that will impact the dialogue, which, for me, is the most important part of an RPG. Aside from that fact, it does affect immersion. It certainly doesn't feel like the PC is ME anymore. Also, since we only have 1 voice actor, that might pose a problem for those who want their PC to be a certain way. I like to choose the voice of my character. Male Hawke is okay but I don't particularly like FemHawke's voice. That could affect my choice of gender when I first play the full game.

[Last Vizard]

KelsieKatt wrote...

I don't like it either. It limits the number of options you have since there's a limit on recorded dialogue. Other than that, I find it to be very immersion breaking. Rather than feeling like I'm playing the character and using my imagination to have whatever voice I want when I read the text, the game chooses how my character sounds (as well as animates) for me and I feel further disconnected from it. The entire time I played both Mass Effect 1 & 2 and the Dragon Age 2 demo I felt like I was directing a movie, not roleplaying.

I also hate the fact that the spoken lines are completely different from the choices you pick and half the time it's a completely different intent than I was hoping for.

That said, it's not a game-breaker, and I did enjoy Mass Effect 1 & 2, but I felt that they were some of the worst games BioWare has made so far, with Jade Empire being the worst. Although, it's more than just the voice over that lessened their overall appeal, primarily it was the shallow gameplay. Which Dragon Age 2 seems to be heading in the direction of as well...

^This^

[Drachjinor]

LenaMarie wrote...

I think people who get all bent out of shape, and more to the point, really upset enough not to buy a game solely due to PC voice acting are whiners. Really, who cares about voice? Its more atmosphere, the real bulk of role playing comes from Choice, freedom to forge your own path and make decisions.

But the voice adorns a character you didn't create, and didn't have the option to create precisely because the story is centred around that one character, with that one name, and that one voice. Your choices amount to whether or not you make this character good or evil, romance this character or that one. Not to belittle those choices, but obliterating the players' option to donate their own characters... kind of makes these options akin to, "In Gears I went left with Fenix, my mate went right with Dom. Next time, I'm gonna go right. Just to see what happens! What did you do?"

"I went left too, I wonder what does happen when you go right? Did your mate tell you?"

"No, and I couldn't see his screen."

Whereas a genuine RPG offers: My elf sports a noble heritage and background and was heir to a vast fortune, but was almost assassinated by agents of her younger, jealous sibling, but escaped and was forced into exile. In exile she encountered a merry band of dwarves from the far reaches of Fantasy Mountain who took her in and blah blah, here she was trained by a similarly exiled human mage, outcast for reasons I'll go into another time. Now on the road to Neverwhere she encountered so-and-so, and so... my game in a BioWare fantasy setting, in a PC RPG began...

... generic, sure, but for the sake of the point I'm making it had to be. lol I prefer that kind of creative freedom to: You are Hawke. I can get that in pretty much every other genre of game.

LenaMarie wrote...

Besides, in a character driven RPG that centers on a very specific person IE Shepard, Hawke, voicing is needed. When you create a character from scratch with everything defined by the user like in Icewind dale, it does make more sense, but even then voice brings you into the world. Its disconnecting to immersion to have everyone else in a game voiced but your PC mute.

I disagree. You could create an entire party in Icewind Dale, and for me it was better even than Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment because you created your own party too. Having characters romance characters wasn't something BioWare conjured up out of the blue. It was something RPG players have been doing with player created parties with pencil and paper and in games with enough options like Icewind Dale. You don't see the details of the romance onscreen, but all the details are there if you ask the involved role-player. Having romances actually onscreen is a good thing though, and you can of course opt out of the party experience and leave all your allies behind, also good, if hard. You can't shirk off your voice or name... however.

Having a set voice can distance what a role-player would want to experience in a character, across multiple characters, because it limits the creativity of that player when it comes to creating a character. "I want to play a stupid dwarf." It used to be the text would reflect your intelligence score, so, "I'm not sure I like the idea of running headlong into a raging horde of Darksawn." Would become, "Uh... me no like dis idea." VA restricts great options like that too. And often we're all conditioned to select the text that hints at our characters sensibility, rather than taking it word for word. Good, evil, neutral, and end convo. The responses from NPCs are usually good enough also.

LenaMarie wrote...
Even in Halo and most other FPS games now the PC is voiced. Perhaps voicing everything is more akin to an interactive movie, but then that is what the mainstream wants.

But I do agree. I'm only whining because I see a good genre being dumped into the action/adventure section but passed off as RPG.  Unless someone buys me DA:O 2 I won't be getting it, it's not my type of RPG. DA:O is though, and it's one I'll hold onto forever and go back to as I do with IWD. It's entered my list of must-plays for fellow RPGers that haven't yet. I'm in the ranks of those guys and gals who kept telling me to get 'round to it while I was playing Vegas and WAR.

Me thinks a vocal console crowd hailing from the Halo generation has somehow managed to pursuade the dev team that the ME format is the way to go for all RPGs. That Rise of the Argonauts attempt at stream-lining RPGs to a point that they're not. Only with ME, done better. According to my brother. That's a depressing thought. lol

Modifié par Drachjinor, 24 février 2011 - 01:56 .

[LenaMarie]

I think I see the problem, some people like using their imagination, pretending its a interactive PnP RPG. Thats rather nerdy, but I digress, we are probably all geeks in some fashion for playing RPGs to begin with



But on a serious note I think some people are stuck in the past and dont want RPGs to progress. In the past we were stuck with non voiced PCs due to limitations in technology and disc space however while it takes some away from the imagination, it doesnt seem like a big deal to me. I'd rather be able to make alot of choices as to what my character would do rather then quirp on voice acting, I think 'choosing your own adventure' is what really defines an RPG.



Though as a storytelling medium voice acting helps alot with immersion, however i think people are going to have to end up going back to PnP if they cant deal with voiced PCs in RPGs. It looks like that is the way of the future, as alot of people pretty much demand it nowadays.

[Drachjinor]

LenaMarie wrote...

... however i think people are going to have to end up going back to PnP if they cant deal with voiced PCs in RPGs. It looks like that is the way of the future, as alot of people pretty much demand it nowadays.

No. I don't think so. Fallout 3 and New Vegas, millions sold, GOTYs, both the same old, tried and tested, true to RPG non-voice format. Both games use set starting locations and offer character backgrounds however, Vegas's is a little more vague leaving room for the player to step in. Although I can't see BGS changing TES any time soon. Not without a riot of angry fans crashing through their gates.

In fact I think the majority of 'top ten RPGs of all time' lists for most gaming mags and websites have a non-voiced RPG sitting at number one. No sign of that changing any time soon. Voiced protagonists is fast become a BioWare affair, not a general RPG affair. It barely qualifies as RPG, IMHO, when the character is pre-cooked and on the plate.

My mentioning RotA earlier for example, not a true RPG but it's the way BioWare are going. You play Jason, he is Jason no matter what your choices in the game. You play Jason every time you play the game. Replayability decreased by a factor of ten. Players who want these characters don't like RPGs, so much as action games with heroes who become flagship characters for studios, and who have series' made in their names. Also known as cash cows. S'less about the setting and more about a character as with any action game.

Limited character creation options is my beef, and the more limited options a developer provides a playerbase that is used to having lots of options, s'not a good thing by any stretch. Since when is removing and culling genre specific features a good thing? I think a lack of imagination from players is the problem, not the advancing technology that could be best used to improve a genre, not limit it.

If I'm being intelligent about it I'd say the majority of feedback has probably come through player profiles/personas in the community. I suppose a majority selected human backgrounds of certain classes in DA:O. BioWare, or perhaps it was EAs call, could probably be justified using that information to cater to those tastes in the sequel. *shrug*

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

The thing about voices are that they make sound,When something makes sound i can hear it thus killing my imagination but that is besides the point because imagination is in your view and not your companions this we know but can't see to accept inthis harsh harsh world why won't we accept tjhis is it fear or something sexier BTW i like how PC limitations are just what is the cause of all things but console dowloads are not that great so to rest my case i want to say thankyou



This Response was created to look smart, the lack of periods attributes to that.

[Crimea River]

KelsieKatt wrote...

I don't like it either. It limits the number of options you have since there's a limit on recorded dialogue. Other than that, I find it to be very immersion breaking. Rather than feeling like I'm playing the character and using my imagination to have whatever voice I want when I read the text, the game chooses how my character sounds (as well as animates) for me and I feel further disconnected from it. The entire time I played both Mass Effect 1 & 2 and the Dragon Age 2 demo I felt like I was directing a movie, not roleplaying.

I also hate the fact that the spoken lines are completely different from the choices you pick and half the time it's a completely different intent than I was hoping for.

^ basically sums up how I feel about it too.

[errant_knight]

While I liked what the voice actors did, I felt like I was playing an NPC with more control. I can't roleplay a character when so much of the characterization is predefined. I wasn't involved with the character at all. It was particularly bad when Hawke had reactions in conversation cutscenes that I had no control of at all.

Modifié par errant_knight, 24 février 2011 - 05:04 .

[Prio]

Vicious wrote...

Purgatious wrote...

The days of emotionless, voiceless characters presenting us with selections of text, making us feel like the NPCs, completely disconnected from the character were interacting with are over. Get over it, or don't either way its gone.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fangirl17 wrote...

I thought it did take away from the roleplaying experience ALOT but it was still enjoyable

I agree entirely that it badly damaged the roleplaying, but since the roleplaying is pretty much the entire reason I play the game, I didn't find it enjoyable at all.

Sereaph502 wrote...

As I said: Not your type of game.  It's not Bioware's fault in the slightest for what's happening: DA2 is clearly defined as "X person's story", not "your own personalized character's story"

Except, they've specifically said that's not true.  They've gone on and on about how they're not defining Hawke for us the way ME defined Shepard.

[In Exile]

Drachjinor wrote...
In fact I think the majority of 'top ten RPGs of all time' lists for most gaming mags and websites have a non-voiced RPG sitting at number one. No sign of that changing any time soon. Voiced protagonists is fast become a BioWare affair, not a general RPG affair. It barely qualifies as RPG, IMHO, when the character is pre-cooked and on the plate.

They do have Planescape Torment there, though, and that was as close as you got to a VO PC in the old days. It was an incredibly fixed character, and many people cite this game as one of the most brilliant achievements in RPG storytelling.

We have, at best, maybe 2 and a half RPGs with VO, depending on how you classify Mass Effect and Alpha Protocol. That the ''best of all time'' is skewed toward a particular implementationd doesn't really mean much at this point.

Limited character creation options is my beef, and the more limited options a developer provides a playerbase that is used to having lots of options, s'not a good thing by any stretch. Since when is removing and culling genre specific features a good thing? I think a lack of imagination from players is the problem, not the advancing technology that could be best used to improve a genre, not limit it.

No. The problem is that what makes an RPG an RPG is not at all clear. You want to say an RPG is about projecting on a blank canvass. I absolutely disagree. An RPG, to me, is about meaningful reaction to a choice. For that to happen, it has to be in the game.

Take this particular encounter:

I go to talk to a peasant, a merchant and a second merchant in a game like IWD and buy a longsword. I equip it to my fighter.

OR

I go with Sten and complete his companion quest.

I could easily project the same kind of story (that my companion had a sword that was crucial to her story, that she had it stolen, or lost, or taken from her and this loss defined her life, that we found out where it was after a long bout of travelling, and that in the end we recovered it) onto the first case. But in DA:O. this is scripted in the game.

If you believe (or have an intuitive feeling) that for the above kind of experence to be genuine for you - which is to say that it actually evokes the sense of fulfillment and experience you want an RPG to - it has to be scripted in game and have the in-game characters react to it, then you need implementation like DA:O.

This is the design philosophy that Bioware's taken since Baldur's Gate (just compare it with contemporaries like IWD).

PC VO is another layer of constraint for the sake of reactivity. With a voice, now you can have an active PC. You give the speeches, you drive the dramatic moments, you are the focal point. In DA:O, you had so many wasted moments were you were a passive mouthpiece: if you were a human noble, Duncan explained what happened at Highever. Alistair gave the dramatic speech to the army about how awesome you were. Character banter happend about you, within earshot, without you even being able to say anything.

The voice dramatically changes the relationship between the PC and the game (in a context where other NPCs do have a voice) from passive to active. And that, IMO, makes for a better RPG.

You're certainly entitled to think that silent VO makes a better RPG - but don't try to play it off as if proponents of PC VO aren't fans of the genre, or want to water it down.

[In Exile]

errant_knight wrote...

While I liked what the voice actors did, I felt like I was playing an NPC with more control. I can't roleplay a character when so much of the characterization is predefined. I wasn't involved with the character at all. It was particularly bad when Hawke had reactions in conversation cutscenes that I had no control of at all.

I just don't see this restricton people mention. What part of characterization is taken from you? It certainly isn't the content of what you say, because (unless you're Sylvius) I don't think most people would say the PC says something different from what the selected line says. It can't be facts about your background, because that was predetermined in a game like origins and people in this thread aren't arguing the origins are anti-RP. Is it the fixed tone? That you can't have one voice and two personalities? I've met enough people who sounded the same but where different not to buy this, but is this the complaint?

Just what precisely is the restricton? This is putting the paraphrase aside for a second, because we are talking about VO and characterization here. I'm aware of the objection to the paraphrase as implementation, but that's a whole other can of worms that's independent of whether or not you have VO.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Rockworm503 wrote...

How often you pick on a dialog option only to have it totally mean something else to who you were talking to.

About as often as it happens in the real world.  DAO's dialogue system modelled real-world conversation remarkably well.

LenaMarie wrote...

I think I see the problem, some people like using their imagination, pretending its a interactive PnP RPG. Thats rather nerdy

Look at what RPGs actually involve.  They're for nerds.

Though as a storytelling medium voice acting helps alot with immersion, however i think people are going to have to end up going back to PnP if they cant deal with voiced PCs in RPGs. It looks like that is the way of the future, as alot of people pretty much demand it nowadays.

It would be a fairly small task, I think, to let us turn off the voice.  But for whatever reason, BioWare doesn't want us to do that.

If they really think that most people want the voice, then those people can keep it and the ability to turn it off will have no effect on them at all.  But for those of us who think the voice is a huge problem, the game basically becomes unplayable if we can't turn it off.

[Querne]

Wouldn´t mind it, if the paraphrazed answer options were not that damned short.

As I was afraid before some told sentences, especially the sarcastic were an big AHA?.. when clicked. Wouldn´t haven chosen them if I knew.

Modifié par Querne, 24 février 2011 - 05:47 .

[PPF65]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

How often you pick on a dialog option only to have it totally mean something else to who you were talking to.

About as often as it happens in the real world.  DAO's dialogue system modelled real-world conversation remarkably well.

LenaMarie wrote...

I think I see the problem, some people like using their imagination, pretending its a interactive PnP RPG. Thats rather nerdy

Look at what RPGs actually involve.  They're for nerds.

Though as a storytelling medium voice acting helps alot with immersion, however i think people are going to have to end up going back to PnP if they cant deal with voiced PCs in RPGs. It looks like that is the way of the future, as alot of people pretty much demand it nowadays.

It would be a fairly small task, I think, to let us turn off the voice.  But for whatever reason, BioWare doesn't want us to do that.

If they really think that most people want the voice, then those people can keep it and the ability to turn it off will have no effect on them at all.  But for those of us who think the voice is a huge problem, the game basically becomes unplayable if we can't turn it off.

Are you being a devil's advocate or do you acctually want to play without a voiced character?

[Agamemnon2589]

Personally, I love having a fully-voiced character. It was what made Mass Effect so fun for me, and it was part of the reason I wasn't as big of a fan of DA:O as I could have been.

[Sabariel]

I prefer a mute protagonist as I can give them whatever voice I want. However voiced protagonists are "the wave of the future" so I'm screwed

[Sylvius the Mad]

PPF65 wrote...

Are you being a devil's advocate or do you acctually want to play without a voiced character?

Absolutely I do.  Until I see a voiced PC that doesn't take away anything I got from an unvoiced PC, I don't want the voice.

I want to be able to have different characters mean different things when delivering the same lines.  I want to be able to impart the tone I choose rather than the tone the writers expect me to want.

Until a voiced PC gives us these things, a voiced PC is a bad idea that needs to be immediately discarded.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

I just don't see this restricton people mention. What part of characterization is taken from you? It certainly isn't the content of what you say, because (unless you're Sylvius) I don't think most people would say the PC says something different from what the selected line says. It can't be facts about your background, because that was predetermined in a game like origins and people in this thread aren't arguing the origins are anti-RP. Is it the fixed tone? That you can't have one voice and two personalities? I've met enough people who sounded the same but where different not to buy this, but is this the complaint?

Ignoring the paraphrasing, I'd say it's the tone.  And it's not just that I can't have two different PCs deliver the same line differently, but having any fixed tone at all breaks many character designs.

Most PC voices sound self-assured and confident.  But if the player's character design was one of an uncertain character who presented everything with a rising tone as if it were a question, then that voice doesn't work.

And that's just one example.  There are any number of possible character designs which simply don't suit any given voice.  Imagine an overly excitable character being stuck with FemShep's voice.

[Drachjinor]

In Exile wrote...

The voice dramatically changes the relationship between the PC and the game (in a context where other NPCs do have a voice) from passive to active. And that, IMO, makes for a better RPG.

You're certainly entitled to think that silent VO makes a better RPG - but don't try to play it off as if proponents of PC VO aren't fans of the genre, or want to water it down.

But it is watering it down.

Obviously it's watering it down. You're missing more than several character creation options and background choices, and a plethora of long-standing RPG elements for the sake of the PC having a voice. The trade-off is nowhere near worth it, especially when it comes to replayability IMO. Just a creaking door opening for more DLC that the players will demand when they get fed up of playing Hawke for the third time around.

Imagine a DA:2 multiplayer server filled with Hawkes like Chuck-central in Dead Rising 2. Hey look, it's Hawke with blue hair, ha ha. Brilliant. So much different from my Hawke, mines evil and has red hair. What's his background you ask? Haven't you played it? Even forums filled with Hawke threads: Show Off Your Hawke. Minor differences on each character. Seems so... shallow. I like reading about peoples characters, I do.

The voiced character seems like an experience catering to a player who wouldn't mind choosing "Quick Play" or "Generate a Character" in any RPG, and "Auto-Level" at every step. They don't much care they just want to get down and into it. Pick up and play, once, drop it and move on until a DLC comes out. That's great too. But do you see how they get that option? To skip the RPG core stuff, that is there for the people who like it?

Now that need to dive in and have everything on a plate is infringing on the extended options that make the majority of RPGs great. The stuff that was kind of painstakingly implemented and made great by studios like BioWare. "Hey, look, now people want it fast, and ready to go, these other features and options have gotta go. Besides, it sure makes writing an epic sweeping tale a whole lot easier if we approach it like an action game and add our own character."

S'like a majority of games lacking HUDs instead of making a Dead Space design choice of upgrading the HUD elements players need, and expect, and making them a part of the overall concept. Fable II having a quest trail for the eternally slow who can't take half a second to access a map, great there's a trail for the slow gamers, but ho ho, no option to turn it off. How annoying, and oh look, its glitched as well. Double trouble. It makes no sense to remove elements or lack options.

Where an RPGamer doesn't mind sitting for a few minutes to think about a build, or to generate a background, or in more recent times shape a character's appearance, there are players who want rapid access. They get rapid access, or appeased with a PC voice, but where's the flip side? Options aren't being added to cater to one crowd, or even added to improve the overall features of a title in this particular genre. They're being removed. Starving the genre until its so thin it barely looks like it belongs any more. lol DA:2 - play as Hawke in the Leliana DLC/or ME style with a fully voiced PC. Or create your own character and play in the style you are accustomed to as in DA's first outing. Cool.

S'one or the other it seems though, not both. Who is getting the short end here? Considering the second option is essentially the original DA:O style that more than a few people bought into, and enjoyed, you'd think that would be the standard you're set to improve on by adding features, and attempting a more epic storyline involving player created characters. Not completely changing the way a story is delivered. I kinda think its a cop out to change core elements to match a different game in your library that is somewhat easier to write for... and so much less RPG... there's so much less to do.

If Alistair delivering a speech makes the PC look a little artarded, don't have the PC standing next to him when he's delivering the speech. lol That's the flaw, not the silent character. On my play-through he was set to be king so it seemed fine to me that he was delivering a speech. I don't need my character to be the central hero, or the centre of attention for the entire world, so long as the character or party is involved in world changing events... I don't need to be applauded by a crowd, given an achievement, or patted on the back after every major fight. I'll go down like Duncan next to the king, who more NPCs are upset to see gone than the Grey Warden at his side. Yo!

I liked Planescape Torment, but I gotta admit, most of the voice-acting left me dry. If I could have crushed a particular floating skull with its crappy VO, I would have done it at a click. Icewind Dale on the hand, good VO throughout, and party of my creation most without voice-sets. If I didn't like the characters in my party, that was my fault, I never disliked them though. Heh.

Modifié par Drachjinor, 24 février 2011 - 06:39 .

[Drachjinor]

Oops, clicked post instead of edit. Double post. My bad.

Modifié par Drachjinor, 24 février 2011 - 06:39 .

[Mordaedil]

Mass Effect 1 and 2 are basically cancer on RPG's.



Before those came out, I never had to look to the GOTHIC games to find a better RPG fix. And it made me feel dirty.

[AlanC9]

Drachjinor wrote...
Obviously it's watering it down. You're missing more than several character creation options and background choices, and a plethora of long-standing RPG elements for the sake of the PC having a voice. The trade-off is nowhere near worth it, especially when it comes to replayability IMO. Just a creaking door opening for more DLC that the players will demand when they get fed up of playing Hawke for the third time around.

You probably shouldn't use background choices to make that case. DAO is very much an outlier in terms of having, you know, origins. I can't actually think of any other RPGs with something like this except for Star Saga, which had multiple predefined characters.

Imagine a DA:2 multiplayer server filled with Hawkes like Chuck-central in Dead Rising 2. Hey look, it's Hawke with blue hair, ha ha. Brilliant. So much different from my Hawke, mines evil and has red hair. What's his background you ask? Haven't you played it? Even forums filled with Hawke threads: Show Off Your Hawke. Minor differences on each character. Seems so... shallow. I like reading about peoples characters, I do.

Again, backgrounds? If that's the argument then BG1, NWN2,  and Fallout are just as watered-down as DA2. (In BG1 and NWN2 you could have a different race, but not a different background)

Where an RPGamer doesn't mind sitting for a few minutes to think about a build, or to generate a background, or in more recent times shape a character's appearance, there are players who want rapid access.

As a long-time RPG player, I have never liked making up backgrounds in a CRPG. I liked having an actual home town in BG1.