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[Aradace]

I laugh my arse off every time I see someone complain, as someone else said, about realism in a sodding FANTASY game. It just boggles my mind

[Dsentinel]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

When you think about how much upper body strength someone would build over time from handling a sword as well, it does make sense... okay leaping into the air with that giant 2H sword doesn't make sense, but being able to handle that thing so swiftly does.

Yeah I for one have learned after handling my thing many times, that my upper body strength has really grown. At least one arm. 

[Ziggeh]

Red Templar wrote...

And as much as "immersion" is buzzword for controversy on the forums lately...

I'm a little glad to hear that there is a perception that immersion as an argument is frowned upon here, I had thought it was just myself furrowing my virtual brow in it's direction. Or rather it's usage. The reason I do so is misuse of the term, which is generally to attempt to support an opinion, to suggest that there is some objective basis for it, therefor increasing it's value.

To avoid a small essay/rant on the topic, I'll just say that while realism can be important to immersion, consistency is more so. If it were just our hero rocking a buster sword there would be quite a problem, but as all weapons (beginning with daggers, which might be the reason for the overall expansion) are consistently large, it only presents a problem under certain circumstances. Like a previously established dislike for oversized weapons.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 24 février 2011 - 09:34 .

[Derax]

Rasputin wrote...

What most people need/desire in a game is something that pulls you in and looks plausible. Guys swinging huge swords around (that are graphically way bigger than they need to be and out of perspective larger than their wielders) is a big immersion wrecker for some people. You know, the logical fantasy ones...

We are our own special breed. Either you get it or you don't.

Small people swinging enormous swords for me always was the immersion breaker in the ff series; now it comes to English rpgs

[LilyasAvalon]

Dsentinel wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

When you think about how much upper body strength someone would build over time from handling a sword as well, it does make sense... okay leaping into the air with that giant 2H sword doesn't make sense, but being able to handle that thing so swiftly does.

Yeah I for one have learned after handling my thing many times, that my upper body strength has really grown. At least one arm. 

...We are still talking about the 2h swords, right? 

[Aradace]

17thknight wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Jet 300 wrote...

It's not unreasonable even in a fantasy game to ask for basic physics non?

Yes...it is...It's called FANTASY

Some of the best fantasy revolves as much about being convincingly realistic as it does by being fantastical. See: A Song of Fire and Ice  and Demon's Souls.

I HATED Demon Souls lol

[Dsentinel]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Dsentinel wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

When you think about how much upper body strength someone would build over time from handling a sword as well, it does make sense... okay leaping into the air with that giant 2H sword doesn't make sense, but being able to handle that thing so swiftly does.

Yeah I for one have learned after handling my thing many times, that my upper body strength has really grown. At least one arm. 

...We are still talking about the 2h swords, right? 

Of course, what did you think we were talking about?

[17thknight]

Aradace wrote...

I laugh my arse off every time I see someone complain, as someone else said, about realism in a sodding FANTASY game. It just boggles my mind

See, but just throwing out the "it's fantasy" excuse constantly doesn't always actually solve a problem.  If you don't think things can be too over the top, then you're being hyperbolic. There's ALWAYS  a line beyond which it is unacceptable (yep, even in fantasy) to take a story or presentation.

A more realistic world makes it easier for a person to sympathize with the characters, as well as enter their world.

If the main character is generic-invincible-badass-no.12,404,672 then there's less tention, less empathy, less concern for the plot.

Does that mean everything eneds to be super-duper real all the time, no, but it certainly has its place and wantonly dismissing such things is pretty ludicrous as a lot of wildly successful games lean far more towards realism than not.

Aradace wrote..

I HATED Demon Souls lol

....

Modifié par 17thknight, 24 février 2011 - 09:36 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Dsentinel wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...
...We are still talking about the 2h swords, right? 

Of course, what did you think we were talking about?

...You're as bad as Ogrhen! 

[Boss Fog]

17thknight wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Jet 300 wrote...

It's not unreasonable even in a fantasy game to ask for basic physics non?

Yes...it is...It's called FANTASY

Some of the best fantasy revolves as much about being convincingly realistic as it does by being fantastical. See: A Song of Fire and Ice  and Demon's Souls.

Demon's Souls has some of the best combat animations I've seen in an action RPG game and still some of the abilities you can do in that game are incredibly over the top unrealistic; especially most attacks involving the largest 2h weapons in the game. 

[Azjurai]

I will admit, people wanting 'realism' and 'realistic attack pattern' type things in a game the includes magic, elves and dragons leaves me slightly amused.



For all we know in Thedas their swords are 20lbs and our 'real world' versions are the crazy made-up things

[Aradace]

Again, you people can ****** and moan all you want, Im not telling you not to. Just dont dilude yourselves into thinking it's going to be changed at this point this close to release (I personally love the new system btw) Either buy the game, cancel your pre-orders, or dont play it, that simple. Only reason I wager that most of the folks ****ing about this are, is because the system isnt a basic carbon copy of origins. Origins system blew donkey danglers and apparently BW agreed on some level hence the change in the system. Remember kiddies, sure, the company may listen to customer feedback at times, but ultimately, in the end, it's what THEY want.

[errant_knight]

Aradace wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

It doesn't matter how heavy they are, because things just don't accerlerate and stop that quickly. Not with human level strength and coordination. I'm equally appalled by the over the top effects in the other classes and talents, not to worry.

Tremor annoys me beyond belief. Yeah. Stick a sword in the ground and cause an earthquake.... Believable!! These things are immersion breaking to me and make it very hard to believe that these are real people in any real danger. It's just a cartoon.

If you want "realism", go play oblivion.  They're not going to overhaul the new system just because you want them to lol.

Uh...when did I say I expected them to? I said I didn't like it, not that I expected them to remove it for me. 'lol'

You know forums are for opinions, right? Not for mimicking yours.

Modifié par errant_knight, 24 février 2011 - 09:41 .

[soteria]

One good reason for over sized weapons I haven't seen mentioned yet: realistic weapons would be a lot harder to see. I'd rather have unrealistic weapons I can easily see moving than realistic ones that are hardly noticeable. Also...

Oh well, I'll ask you the same thing, "Have you ever wielded a 7 pound sword? Have you fought for more than 20 minutes wielding such a weapon? Have you done this while wearing a heavy armor? And if you have done all those thing, ... are you also skilled warrior like Hawke?"

Indeed, it's a bad argument. It's like asking someone if they can run, say 5 miles, in 30 minutes. Maybe not, but have they trained to?

[Ziggeh]

17thknight wrote...

Does that mean everything eneds to be super-duper real all the time, no, but it certainly has its place and wantonly dismissing such things is pretty ludicrous as a lot of wildly successful games lean far more towards realism than not.

Definitely agree, I think it's a balance thing, that the overall approach of the setting needs to maintain a certain amount of realism before crossing some subjective line. Which is why I don't believe individual examples are all that helpful in determination, unless they operate so outlandishly as to break consistency, and that again, is purely subjective.

[Aradace]

17thknight wrote...

Aradace wrote...

I laugh my arse off every time I see someone complain, as someone else said, about realism in a sodding FANTASY game. It just boggles my mind

See, but just throwing out the "it's fantasy" excuse constantly doesn't always actually solve a problem.  If you don't think things can be too over the top, then you're being hyperbolic. There's ALWAYS  a line beyond which it is unacceptable (yep, even in fantasy) to take a story or presentation.

A more realistic world makes it easier for a person to sympathize with the characters, as well as enter their world.

If the main character is generic-invincible-badass-no.12,404,672 then there's less tention, less empathy, less concern for the plot.

Does that mean everything eneds to be super-duper real all the time, no, but it certainly has its place and wantonly dismissing such things is pretty ludicrous as a lot of wildly successful games lean far more towards realism than not.

Aradace wrote..

I HATED Demon Souls lol

....

Let me re-iterate (yes that is probably spelled wrong but oh well lol).  Your opinion is your opinion, more power to you.  As long as you realize it is just that, an opinion.  Just like my liking of the new system is an opinion.  What isnt an opinion is the fact that BW isnt going to overhaul the system, yet again, for a few complainers just because it's not a carbon copy of origins.  As long as you understand that they wont be changing it, then by all means, complain away.

[Shinimas]

Azjurai wrote...

I will admit, people wanting 'realism' and 'realistic attack pattern' type things in a game the includes magic, elves and dragons leaves me slightly amused.

For all we know in Thedas their swords are 20lbs and our 'real world' versions are the crazy made-up things

So how would you feel if humans of Thedas had four arms? And still were depicted as normal humans?

That's where Tolkien's words about the green sun help to see it in perspective. We still project fantasy worlds on our own to understand it.

[Aradace]

errant_knight wrote...

Aradace wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

It doesn't matter how heavy they are, because things just don't accerlerate and stop that quickly. Not with human level strength and coordination. I'm equally appalled by the over the top effects in the other classes and talents, not to worry.

Tremor annoys me beyond belief. Yeah. Stick a sword in the ground and cause an earthquake.... Believable!! These things are immersion breaking to me and make it very hard to believe that these are real people in any real danger. It's just a cartoon.

If you want "realism", go play oblivion.  They're not going to overhaul the new system just because you want them to lol.

Uh...when did I say I expected them to? I said I didn't like it, not that I expected them to remove it for me. 'lol'

You know forums are for opinions, right? Not for mimicking yours.

Yea, I know precisely what they're for lol.  And perhaps you arent expecting them to change it.  However, there ARE people that frequent these forums that DO thing ridiculous thoughts like that every time they express their discontent with something BW has done.  Again, perhaps not you specifically, but a few none the less.

[ManiacalEvil]

Shinimas wrote...

Azjurai wrote...

I will admit, people wanting 'realism' and 'realistic attack pattern' type things in a game the includes magic, elves and dragons leaves me slightly amused.

For all we know in Thedas their swords are 20lbs and our 'real world' versions are the crazy made-up things

So how would you feel if humans of Thedas had four arms? And still were depicted as normal humans?

That's where Tolkien's words about the green sun help to see it in perspective. We still project fantasy worlds on our own to understand it.

I'd personally be OK with that. Why wouldn't I be if that was how the setting was?

[Aradace]

Shinimas wrote...

Azjurai wrote...

I will admit, people wanting 'realism' and 'realistic attack pattern' type things in a game the includes magic, elves and dragons leaves me slightly amused.

For all we know in Thedas their swords are 20lbs and our 'real world' versions are the crazy made-up things

So how would you feel if humans of Thedas had four arms? And still were depicted as normal humans?

That's where Tolkien's words about the green sun help to see it in perspective. We still project fantasy worlds on our own to understand it.

Admittedly, I can see what you're saying here.  There are limits to a degree.  But IMO, swinging huges weapons ala FF style is NOT it.  However, the four-armed human reference you made, WOULD cross that line for me.  A green sun? That wouldnt bother me either as long as they were on a planet other than earth. 

Modifié par Aradace, 24 février 2011 - 09:49 .

[17thknight]

Shinimas wrote...

So how would you feel if humans of Thedas had four arms? And still were depicted as normal humans?

That's where Tolkien's words about the green sun help to see it in perspective. We still project fantasy worlds on our own to understand it.

Indeed, and it's necessary to have lines of commonality otherwise it's impossible for the audience to sympathize.
And anything not explicitly stated to exist otherwise will be assumed by the audience to be the same (Which is a trick that skilled writers often use to trick/manipulate people).

The very fact that these people speak recognizable languages is unbelievable.

There's give and take with realism in a fantasy world, and everybody recognizes that, but I agree with above posters that consistency is highly important. I didn't see anything in the demo that really broke from the original game's presentation.

That being said, I loathe the "anime" (or WoW or whatever you want to label it) style where the hero is dancing around in 75lbs worth of equipment like it's as light as air. A few years in the military, actually dressed out in that much crap, will quickly teach you how silly such sights are.

[Aradace]

17thknight wrote...

Shinimas wrote...

So how would you feel if humans of Thedas had four arms? And still were depicted as normal humans?

That's where Tolkien's words about the green sun help to see it in perspective. We still project fantasy worlds on our own to understand it.

Indeed, and it's necessary to have lines of commonality otherwise it's impossible for the audience to sympathize.
And anything not explicitly stated to exist otherwise will be assumed by the audience to be the same (Which is a trick that skilled writers often use to trick/manipulate people).

The very fact that these people speak recognizable languages is unbelievable.

There's give and take with realism in a fantasy world, and everybody recognizes that, but I agree with above posters that consistency is highly important. I didn't see anything in the demo that really broke from the original game's presentation.

That being said, I loathe the "anime" (or WoW or whatever you want to label it) style where the hero is dancing around in 75lbs worth of equipment like it's as light as air. A few years in the military, actually dressed out in that much crap, will quickly teach you how silly such sights are.

Been there done that with the full battle rattle.  But I still enjoy the "over the top"ness of the new system.  That's the reason I play "fantasy" games like this, to break from reality.  It's real simple, as I stated before, if you dont like the new system, dont play the game.

[Velvetmeds]

Captain Sassy Pants wrote...

I think the complaints are more due to the fact that all of the transitionary animations have been cut out, leaving only an arc graphic to portray the movement.

Best thing they could have done

[Aradace]

Velvetmeds wrote...

Captain Sassy Pants wrote...

I think the complaints are more due to the fact that all of the transitionary animations have been cut out, leaving only an arc graphic to portray the movement.

Best thing they could have done

Im primarily greatful that we no longer "ice skate" into position when going to attack an ememy lol

[Red Templar]

Aradace wrote...

Im primarily greatful that we no longer "ice skate" into position when going to attack an ememy lol

http://social.biowar...1/index/6174705