60 réponses à ce sujet

[ArcanistLibram]

I assume Persuasion got folded into Cunning, also known as that attribute that was totally worthless for Warriors and Mages once they'd maxed out Coercion. Did any dev ever comment on that?

[colejossart]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

It looks like we have no persuade skill in DA2, and that our ability to be influential/persuasive with party members/NPCs depends on our party composition and dialogue options rather than a persuade skill. 

I like this change.  I think this is a good change.

I think this makes the game work more like how actual persuasion works in the real world, which is to say it doesn't.

Let no one say I am always negative.

^^ Lol at this

[Sable Rhapsody]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I am kind of interested in the change. It sounds similar to Alpha Protocol's system, which I think was the jewel of the game. And it's still better than the ME2 system, where it's based on how renegade or paragon you are (which doesn't make sense and discourages playing something in between).

There we agree.  I'm not a fan of the Paragon/Renegade system, and TBH I'll usually just cheat in the points if there's a dialogue option I think my character WOULD say but can't because I play mixed characters and don't go strongly Paragon or Renegade.

But if the new system gives extra dialogue options based on how often you pick "diplomatic" or "aggressive" or "sarcastic," isn't that kind of just like a more complicated version of Paragon/Renegade, where the game gives you extra incentive to pick a strong default personality and stick to it?

[Rimfrost]

In another thread one of the Bioware people confirmed that you will occasionally see extra options depending upon how diplomatic you have been earlier. So they do track your "skill of picking the right option" and it will affect game play so in a way the option is still there. I think I like the new system better. Too bad that my hero will not be the diplomatic kind if this is indeed a mage/templar conflict :-)

[Rimfrost]

quote]David Gaider wrote...



[quote]Galad22 wrote...

Did you know that diplomacy is apparently gone for good. So do you suppose you can talk your way out of any fights?



Considering how often you can do that in ME2 I doubt you can talk your way out of anything in DA2.



Also every other non combat skills are gone.

[/quote]



The lack of non-combat skills does not mean you can't talk your way out of fights.



You get bonus dialogue options based on your personality choices-- so someone who's diplomatic most often will occasionally have such options appear. And that's when you aren't already getting choices that can lead to a peaceful resolution regardless of your personality.



But you're free to jump to conclusions, if you wish. [/quote]



This from this thread: http://social.biowar...ex/6192420&lf=8

[Herr Uhl]

As long as you're actually able to smooth talk (most) people regardless of earlier dominant personality, I think this is an improvement. I want at least one of my Hawkes to be a slick bastard.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Rimfrost wrote...

In another thread one of the Bioware people confirmed that you will occasionally see extra options depending upon how diplomatic you have been earlier. So they do track your "skill of picking the right option" and it will affect game play so in a way the option is still there. I think I like the new system better. Too bad that my hero will not be the diplomatic kind if this is indeed a mage/templar conflict :-)

I guess this is just an issue of me being worried about implementation.  Poorly implemented, it'll just function like a more complicated and less mechanically transparent version of ME2's Paragon/Renegade system, where you were rewarded out of combat for sticking with one dominant personality and penalized for not.

Herr Uhl wrote...

As long as you're actually able to smooth talk (most) people regardless of earlier dominant personality, I think this is an improvement. I want at least one of my Hawkes to be a slick bastard.

Agreed.  Though I still would prefer it to be contingent on character "slick bastard"-ness and not player skill at picking out the correct dialogue option for persuasion.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 24 février 2011 - 09:09 .

[Maria Caliban]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

It makes roleplaying harder and metagaming more necessary, because the PC will have skills the player does not.  

For metagaming to be 'more necessary' it would have to be necessary in the first place. It's not.

[MasterSamson88]

I believe you can still talk yourself out of situations in DAII, infact I'm almost sure of it. But I think now it's more about choosing the right options for the right people. Being peaceful or reasonable when you have to and being threatening when you have to to make people back off.



Rather than say, like Origins, where instead of thinking you just choose the obvious option. The one with Persuade written next to it in Italics.

[Crunchyinmilk]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
The persuade option tells me that the character is using HIS/HER persuade skill.  That's the character's skill.  And it's flagged for the player so that I know which dialogue option reflects my character's persuasiveness.

Poking around all the options so I can find the persuasive one is me the player using my ability to reload the game over and over again before I find the option that I think reflects the character.  That's the player metagaming.

No, picking the right dialogue attitude for a particular NPC is you paying attention to the character you're talking to.  Understanding them as a 'person' and couching your response to take advantage of that. If you play by the rules its not metagaming.  Trial and error till you find it, to ensure you pass the coercion because you want the coercion to pass no matter what... that is metagaming and is entirely on the player's shoulders, not the game system.

Knowing the exact amount of coercion skill needed and having the coercion line flagged for you is metagaming,  Only this time the game system is also guilty of encouraging it.  See the ME2 red/blue lines.  You're encouraged to always pick one paradigm  and stick with it to 'win' in dialogue, its terrible.  I have not seen evidence of this part of the dialogue system appearing in Dragon Age 2 (yet).

Given the limited evidence I'm inclined to believe coercing team mates relies on their friend/rivalry levels. Which has multiple ways of being raised and most rely on paying attention to them as characters.  Pulling out the charming coercion line after years spent treating someone as a rival, should fail.

Modifié par Crunchyinmilk, 25 février 2011 - 12:14 .

[WilliamShatner]

I like persuasion skills because I like my character to be a smooth talker. To talk their way out of situations rather than fighting all the time.



And I like my characters to have skills that are useful outside combat, it makes the character feel more real, it allows you to build more diverse characters.



A lot of cool stuff could have been done with the persuade skill.



For example, if you use it a lot you start to build up a reputation for it, and characters will become more skeptical towards you.



Or let's say you lied to someone, they fell for it and it had a bad consequence for them. Later in the game they could come back to get revenge on you.



It's things like this that make the gameworld deeper that I wish BioWare could spent more time on rather than combat.