307 réponses à ce sujet

[Riona45]

jamirflyd2 wrote...
But I mean I didn’t feel as bad for Wesley because his seemed all over dramatic when he acted like an a** when he was just saved.

In that case I felt sad mainly for Aveline--after all, Wesley barely says anything, and at least in that case he's supposed to be a complete stranger, unlike your siblings.

[jamirflyd2]

Riona45 wrote...

jamirflyd2 wrote...
But I mean I didn’t feel as bad for Wesley because his seemed all over dramatic when he acted like an a** when he was just saved.

In that case I felt sad mainly for Aveline--after all, Wesley barely says anything, and at least in that case he's supposed to be a complete stranger, unlike your siblings.

I have to agree with you there I did feel for Aveline. Maybe becuase I know she is going to be with your or just becuase when you meet her I felt a sense of kindness and understanding from her. So I like her!

[Sentox6]

Riona45 wrote...

But not sad?  OK, whatever.

There's only so much they can do. Sure, the response dialogue probably could have been better, but either way, it's never going to be truly sad unless the player has a reasonable amount of time to get attached to the character.

[jamirflyd2]

Sentox6 wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

But not sad?  OK, whatever.

There's only so much they can do. Sure, the response dialogue probably could have been better, but either way, it's never going to be truly sad unless the player has a reasonable amount of time to get attached to the character.

Um I mean I would think if you had a brother or sister there death would mean something really any death but your family? Regardless of the game you should connect right away with family if you don't they were not made as best as they could have been which is not any of our faults.

[AlexXIV]

Sentox6 wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

But not sad?  OK, whatever.

There's only so much they can do. Sure, the response dialogue probably could have been better, but either way, it's never going to be truly sad unless the player has a reasonable amount of time to get attached to the character.

I don't know if someone dies it is always sad and tbh I can't relate to all the people who say it's just an npc. If some strangers runs into your arms on the street and dies you don't just say 'It's just a stranger'. I have not seen many posts in the topic about the earthquake in newzealand that said 'well I have no attachment to anyone there'.

It's just a matter of empathy and understanding what happened. That a life is lost, one moment they are right here next to you, thinking, talking, doing, and next moment they are just a lump of flesh, blood and bones. Death is always sad. I find it a bit funny that people refer to in game characters, even party members as 'just an NPC' and then ask Bioware to touch their emotions. I mean if you are not even trying to be immersed, how is Bioware supposed to drag you in?

I just agree that Hawkes reaction was far from satisfying. I didn't expect tears but at least see the pain in his face or in his gestures or hear it in his voice. But honestly in the whole demo the cutscenes seemed to be just cut very fast and the NPCs rather just stood around than moving or gesturing. It reminds me a bit of popstars who can't really dance so the director makes alot of cuts from many directions to make it look as if. So that the watcher thinks there is alot of action going on, but in thruth it is just alot of camera switching.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 24 février 2011 - 02:51 .

[Riona45]

Sentox6 wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

But not sad?  OK, whatever.

There's only so much they can do. Sure, the response dialogue probably could have been better, but either way, it's never going to be truly sad unless the player has a reasonable amount of time to get attached to the character.

I'm responding to the assertions some made that that scene didn't merely fail to be sad, it wasn't even intended to be sad.  I'll also note that no one linked to a dev post backing up those assertions.

[Sabariel]

Hawke and the surviving twin didn't seem to care all that much either.



However I assume that once you've played the game and gotten to know your siblings their death might be "sadder" later.

[Riona45]

AlexXIV wrote...
It's just a matter of empathy and understanding what happened. That a life is lost, one moment they are right here next to you, thinking, talking, doing, and next moment they are just a lump of flesh, blood and bones. Death is always sad. I find it a bit funny that people refer to in game characters, even party members as 'just an NPC' and then ask Bioware to touch their emotions. I mean if you are not even trying to be immersed, how is Bioware supposed to drag you in?

Indeed.  I think we are at least supposed to accept the premise that Hawke would be pained at the death of Bethany or Carver even if we only see them alive for a minutes and know that they are "only" video game characters.

[chunkyman]

It's weird, Wesley's death had more of an impact on me. I don't even like him, either. He strikes me as a "I-art-holier-than-thou" stereotypical templar. I kind of chuckled when Carver's sword just clanked against the ogre's armor, and then the ogre proceeded to beat him to death. Also, I'm not sure if it was poor VO work or facial animation, but Hawke didn't seem sad to me.

[Russalka]

Wesley was probably told since childhood that all mages are potentially evil and it is definite with illegal ones, hence the reaction.

[TJPags]

Riona45 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
It's just a matter of empathy and understanding what happened. That a life is lost, one moment they are right here next to you, thinking, talking, doing, and next moment they are just a lump of flesh, blood and bones. Death is always sad. I find it a bit funny that people refer to in game characters, even party members as 'just an NPC' and then ask Bioware to touch their emotions. I mean if you are not even trying to be immersed, how is Bioware supposed to drag you in?

Indeed.  I think we are at least supposed to accept the premise that Hawke would be pained at the death of Bethany or Carver even if we only see them alive for a minutes and know that they are "only" video game characters.

For me, the problem wasn't so much that *I* didn't feel anything - I didn't expect to, it's my nature - but the fact that HAWKE didn't seem to feel anything - nor did the surviving sibling.  Sure, mom broke down over the corpse, but Hawke and surviving sibling were both kind of "okay, s/he's dead . .time to go".

That's how I saw it - and that's what my problem is with it.

[AlexXIV]

Wes was in a terrible state from start. About the first thing you see of him is when he almost gets killed. And even when he starts his 'The order dictates' he is in no shape to fight anymore. So naturally people feel rather sorry for him. I do too, and his death scene is really disheartening as well. I still don't know if it is better Hawke kills him or Aveline. It seems kind of hard to ask of his wife to do it but the same time it's not much better to kill her husband while she is standing next to you.

[Sentox6]

Riona45 wrote...
I'm responding to the assertions some made that that scene didn't merely fail to be sad, it wasn't even intended to be sad.  I'll also note that no one linked to a dev post backing up those assertions.

Ah, I see. Well, if the developers intended it to be sad, they were more ambitious than I would have been in their shoes.

AlexXIV wrote...
I don't know if someone dies it is always sad
and tbh I can't relate to all the people who say it's just an npc. If
some strangers runs into your arms on the street and dies you don't just
say 'It's just a stranger'. I have not seen many posts in the topic
about the earthquake in newzealand that said 'well I have no attachment
to anyone there'.

Interesting example, since I'm a New Zealander. I can't honestly say I'm sad. Expressing empathy doesn't necessarily correlate to personal emotion. Yes, it is a sad thing, but I'm not personally torn up.

If anyone wants to villify me for this, well, consider for a moment that a child dies every five seconds from hunger. You've got a lot of feeling sad to do.

My point is that making people feel sad about the death of a fictional character they just met, and who isn't developed beyond a few meaningless lines of dialogue, just isn't going to happen. It takes a great developer to create characters players can get attached to over the course of an entire game. To invoke sadness at the death of a paper-thin NPC doesn't take a great developer, it requires a very interesting sort of player.

[chunkyman]

Russalka wrote...

Wesley was probably told since childhood that all mages are potentially evil and it is definite with illegal ones, hence the reaction.

I can understand that under normal circumstances, but Hawke&Company pretty much saved their lives! He didn't show any gratefulness, instead immediately being antagonistic. 

[Vahe]

http://social.biowar...1/index/6163219

[Riona45]

TJPags wrote...
For me, the problem wasn't so much that *I* didn't feel anything - I didn't expect to, it's my nature - but the fact that HAWKE didn't seem to feel anything - nor did the surviving sibling.

I guess I wasn't too clear, but that was really what I was talking about.

[JrayM16]

THe moment is deflated by two things: One, that we didn't get enough time to know the characters and two, because we knew of it in advanced, there was no surprise.



The writing could have been better, sure, but these are the two main reasons.

[TJPags]

Riona45 wrote...

TJPags wrote...
For me, the problem wasn't so much that *I* didn't feel anything - I didn't expect to, it's my nature - but the fact that HAWKE didn't seem to feel anything - nor did the surviving sibling.

I guess I wasn't too clear, but that was really what I was talking about.

I was responding more to Alex than you.  I thought that's what you were going for, but I wasn't sure, which is why I quoted you, too.

[Riona45]

Sentox6 wrote...
My point is that making people feel sad about the death of a fictional character they just met, and who isn't developed beyond a few meaningless lines of dialogue, just isn't going to happen.

But we're talking about how Hawke doesn't seem especially shaken up.  Even if you don't care, isn't Hawke at least supposed to care?

Modifié par Riona45, 24 février 2011 - 03:14 .

[Sentox6]

Riona45 wrote...

TJPags wrote...
For me, the problem wasn't so much that *I* didn't feel anything - I didn't expect to, it's my nature - but the fact that HAWKE didn't seem to feel anything - nor did the surviving sibling.

I guess I wasn't too clear, but that was really what I was talking about.

Alright, this makes a lot more sense.

[marshalleck]

Riona45 wrote...

Sentox6 wrote...
My point is that making people feel sad about the death of a fictional character they just met, and who isn't developed beyond a few meaningless lines of dialogue, just isn't going to happen.

But we're talking about how Hawke doesn't seem to feel that pained.  Even if you don't care, isn't Hawke at least supposed to care?

Maybe, but that's not what the thread was about when it started. Besides, different people react differently to death. Some completely break down and lose their minds, others remain stoic and keep their minds on the looming threat of painful death and dismemberment for everyone at the hands of darkspawn horde.

Modifié par marshalleck, 24 février 2011 - 03:17 .

[Riona45]

Vahe wrote...

http://social.biowar...1/index/6163219

No where in that post does Mike Laidlaw state that the scene wasn't intended to be sad.

[Riona45]

marshalleck wrote...
 Maybe, but that's not what the thread was about when it started. 

So what?  You don't get to police which posts I respond to and why in a 10 page thread.

Modifié par Riona45, 24 février 2011 - 03:17 .

[Riona45]

marshalleck wrote...
Some completely break down and lose their minds, others remain stoic and keep their minds on the looming threat of painful death and dismemberment for everyone at the hands of darkspawn horde.

That's a good argument for having Hawke react in other ways besides calm and stoic, or callous ******.

[AlexXIV]

marshalleck wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

Sentox6 wrote...
My point is that making people feel sad about the death of a fictional character they just met, and who isn't developed beyond a few meaningless lines of dialogue, just isn't going to happen.

But we're talking about how Hawke doesn't seem to feel that pained.  Even if you don't care, isn't Hawke at least supposed to care?

Maybe, but that's not what the thread was about when it started. Besides, different people react differently to death. Some completely break down and lose their minds, others remain stoic and keep their minds on the looming threat of painful death and dismemberment for everyone at the hands of darkspawn horde.

Well I think if Hawke didn't react so ... unemotional ... then the scene as a whole would have been sadder. If I just think how it goes on, that Flemeth comes swooping down and Hawke talks how impressive she is and if she can learn dragon form, which is a ridiculous thing to say to begin with but especially when your brother or sister just died a minute ago. Bioware lost it at this point, simple as that. And I hope it was not the final version.