307 réponses à ce sujet

[FiveStarGA]

I'm hoping the lack of attachment is simply because of demo purposes. I would like to think you get a few more quality minutes with your siblings before the inevitable.

[Demx]

FiveStarGA wrote...

I'm hoping the lack of attachment is simply because of demo purposes. I would like to think you get a few more quality minutes with your siblings before the inevitable.

Why would removing the emotions for a demo be a good idea?

[Krytheos]

Siradix wrote...

FiveStarGA wrote...

I'm hoping the lack of attachment is simply because of demo purposes. I would like to think you get a few more quality minutes with your siblings before the inevitable.

Why would removing the emotions for a demo be a good idea?

It's an older version of the game, actually. The devs have said this is not the finished product, so some things are subject to change, such as lack of emotion on Hawke, or other things that could very well be in the final product that the demo didn't showcase. 

I'm not sure how old exactly, but it isn't the final product. It remains to be seen what the final product contains that the demo does not, but I suppose all one can do is speculate for the moment. 

[TJPags]

Krytheos wrote...

Siradix wrote...

FiveStarGA wrote...

I'm hoping the lack of attachment is simply because of demo purposes. I would like to think you get a few more quality minutes with your siblings before the inevitable.

Why would removing the emotions for a demo be a good idea?

It's an older version of the game, actually. The devs have said this is not the finished product, so some things are subject to change, such as lack of emotion on Hawke, or other things that could very well be in the final product that the demo didn't showcase. 

I'm not sure how old exactly, but it isn't the final product. It remains to be seen what the final product contains that the demo does not, but I suppose all one can do is speculate for the moment. 

Yea, I got to agree with Siradix here.  What's the point of showing us a version that's missing important aspects of the story?  Sure, old version, maybe there were some graphic tweaks or such, but a storyline change?  Where's the logic?

*marketing rep - let's release a demo, so people can see how good the game is, and want to buy it
*exec - yes, good idea
*marketing rep - and we'll release an old version, which has a truncated story and lacks emotional impact!!!
*exec - .....

That makes little to no sense, IMO.

[Ivolon]

My problem isn´t that Carvers death doesnt evoke any emotions in me but that the lack of reaction pretty much kills the Hakes as believable Characters. One must think that Bioware would use this oppurtunity to intruduce us to the Hawkes, by showing how they deal with the death of a loved one. Enabling us to empathize with those characters we barely know, but should care about.

Just for reference: Gandalfs death in lord of the rings, similiar situation: A character dies but, the group cannot stop and grief because they are beset by enemies:



The way how the different characters react to Gandalfs death matters as much as the death itsself, and tells a lot about who these people are.

This is also the reason why I was far more interessted in Aveline than the whole Hawke bunch.

[Krytheos]

TJPags wrote...

Krytheos wrote...

Siradix wrote...

FiveStarGA wrote...

I'm hoping the lack of attachment is simply because of demo purposes. I would like to think you get a few more quality minutes with your siblings before the inevitable.

Why would removing the emotions for a demo be a good idea?

It's an older version of the game, actually. The devs have said this is not the finished product, so some things are subject to change, such as lack of emotion on Hawke, or other things that could very well be in the final product that the demo didn't showcase. 

I'm not sure how old exactly, but it isn't the final product. It remains to be seen what the final product contains that the demo does not, but I suppose all one can do is speculate for the moment. 

Yea, I got to agree with Siradix here.  What's the point of showing us a version that's missing important aspects of the story?  Sure, old version, maybe there were some graphic tweaks or such, but a storyline change?  Where's the logic?

*marketing rep - let's release a demo, so people can see how good the game is, and want to buy it
*exec - yes, good idea
*marketing rep - and we'll release an old version, which has a truncated story and lacks emotional impact!!!
*exec - .....

That makes little to no sense, IMO.

Such is the way of all demo's, I'm afraid. Most, if not all of them are not the finished product, barring the occasional exception. 

[Vicious]

Just for reference: Gandalfs death in lord of the rings, similiar situation: A character dies but, the group cannot stop and grief because they are beset by enemies:

Bioware didn't pull it off here. And I blame everyone [except momma Hawke's] deadpan dialogue.



God, WESLEY AND AVELINE SEEMED MORE BROKE UP OVER <sibling>'s DEATH THAN HAWKE AND THE SURVIVING SIBLING.





I loved the demo but that was just fiing pathetic.

[FiveStarGA]

Siradix wrote...

FiveStarGA wrote...

I'm hoping the lack of attachment is simply because of demo purposes. I would like to think you get a few more quality minutes with your siblings before the inevitable.

Why would removing the emotions for a demo be a good idea?

Who said it was a good idea? Not I. I simply said maybe the lack of emotion was for demo purposes, and to be more specific to what I was referring to was the length of the demo and what was primarily on display. To me, it was to show the new look, combat speed, differences in classes, and dialogue wheel.

I hope in the game that you spend a little bit more time with the siblings before the killings begin. 

[Sierra Crysis]

Think about it this way, when you goto the end of the DeadSpace demo, and the gunship comes out, there's no group of people there to talk to you, it's just instantly gunship.



It leaves out some important story elements, in the demo.



Also, this Carver hate borders on the sadistic, and from what I understand it's..



Haha, Carver dying is funny cause he doesn't have boobs...! HaHa!!! He's upset because he's having to run and doesn't agree with everything you say..! He's a LOSER.



Whereas Bethany's all like.. Oh no she's a girl, and is fairly attractive and agrees with everything you say and you can't get 12 mages on your team.. WHY?!?!?!?!?!?! WHY GOD! KILL THAT LOSER AGAIN CAUSE HE'S NOT BETHANY!



Neither death was particularly horrible, but I can justify the reasoning for acting that way. I would've preferred some verbal abuse of the Ogre as you're mutilating it and before you attack it, and then the darkspawn sweep in before you have a chance to say your words. At this point Flemeth would come down and you could finalize all the emotions while the big dragonlady is there. Wesley wouldn't get to do his akward sending then and with one heavy, somber, sad tune, The Hawkes and Aveline could do their respective mourning; and only be revitalized by the hope that Flemeth brings.

[StreetlightEagle]

I really hope this is different in the final game. The fact that there was a humourous dialogue option after your sibling's death just astounded me. This is a person you grew up with and supposedly cared deeply about, you should have more to say than 'oh well, at least dad's got company. Look at the time, we really ought to get a move on.' I don't care that we the player weren't emotionally connected to the dead sibling, Hawke should have been!

[Onyx Jaguar]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Did anyone actually feel for their sibling when he/she died? I sure didn't. I actually think Wesley's death, a NPC we hardly knew, was sadder. Which isn't saying much.

Yep, WEsley's death was handled with much more weight

Also I'd like to dig up an old post on this topic where I was 100% right in one area and was told "wait and see you may be wrong"

Because I was obviously right

figures

[Ninotchka]

If only Hawke changed facial expression if not for a second or two during that scene......but there was nothing

This is all probably Varric's fault - he's the one telling the story

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

Carver was an ass



Good ridiance

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

I really hope this is different in the final game. The fact that there was a humourous dialogue option after your sibling's death just astounded me. This is a person you grew up with and supposedly cared deeply about, you should have more to say than 'oh well, at least dad's got company. Look at the time, we really ought to get a move on.' I don't care that we the player weren't emotionally connected to the dead sibling, Hawke should have been!

For all we know, Hawke is a sociopath. Normal, well-adjusted people don't usually go on to become legendary heros after all.

[clopin]

Meh, isn't it a Bioware tradition to kill off playable character in the first few minutes? I'm not too worried about it, if we were supposed to care about the sibling, they wouldn't have died in half an hour. If they tried to make us care about them, and then kill them, all in 30 minutes, it would've been played as melodramatic and we would be complaining about how the dialogue feels like a soap opera.

[Korva]

It is perfectly possible to evoke a sense of connection and loss in a short period of time -- not for everyone, sure, but it is possible. In fact, as far as my own experience is concerned, Bioware has done it before and multiple times at that. So why don't they even seem to try here? It's mind-boggling and it's a sign of how the "action >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else" mentality is poisonous and kick in the teeth. Instead of making us sit through what feels like 99% repetetive combat which consists of roughly 90% brainless, boring-as-crap autoattacking, why not give us more than that 1% of character and world building? Anything to relieve the tedium. What is the point of even having family if even a minute of creating and demonstrating the bonds between them is less important than autoattacking yet another wave of faceless baddies?

Okay, it isn't the finished version (thank goodness). But even so, the demo still gives what I only hope is a REALLY BAD impression of what the game is actually like. The point of a demo is to give us a glimpse of the finished product. Well, this demo feels more like Dungeon Siege or Diablo, except with significantly less interesting combat and nonexistent level design. For me it's a real "What the hell were you thinking?!" thing, it's as if they couldn't have made it worse if they tried.

Ivolon wrote...

My problem isn´t that Carvers death doesnt evoke any emotions in me but that the lack of reaction pretty much
kills the Hakes as believable Characters. One must think that Bioware would use this oppurtunity to intruduce us to the Hawkes, by showing how they deal with the death of a loved one. Enabling us to empathize with
those characters we barely know, but should care about. Just for reference: Gandalfs death in lord of the rings, similiar situation: A character dies but, the group cannot stop and grief because they are beset by enemies:

Full agreement. The way Gandalf's death is handled in these still-lethal circumstances works. Yes, at that point the viewer knows Gandalf a lot better than we know the Hawkes. But the point is that the other characters show a range of real emotion from shock to tears to silent grief to resigned pragmaticism.

Vicious wrote...

God, WESLEY AND AVELINE SEEMED MORE BROKE UP OVER 's DEATH THAN HAWKE AND THE SURVIVING SIBLING.

Heh, I had the same impression, which is one reason why I actually liked Wesley better than "my" own family. Aveline, of course, takes the cake as the only character from the demo whom I actually connected with and cared about because she showed maturity and humanity in what few lines she had. Wesley's death was a bit rushed for my liking too but it worked a hundred times better than the sibling death.

Sierra Crysis wrote...

Also, this Carver hate borders on the sadistic, and from what I understand it's..

Haha, Carver dying is funny cause he doesn't have boobs...! HaHa!!! He's upset because he's having to run and doesn't agree with everything you say..! He's a LOSER.

Yeah, gotta agree there, especially about the boobs. But it's nothing new, really, so I can't say I'm surprised.

Personally I didn't care about the Hawkes one bit because of the absence of character-, world- and family-building, but that's just it. I don't care. I don't hate them, I don't dislike them, they're just "meh".

Modifié par Korva, 24 février 2011 - 11:50 .

[Persephone]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Xrissie wrote...

There's a new trailer depicting a more emotional sibling death.

I KNOW! I'VE SEEN IT! OMFG I HOPE THAT'S THE FINAL VERSION 

Where? WHERE? :O:O:O

[MorrigansLove]

YES! THE DEATH SHOULD'VE BEEN LIKE LOTR! I NEED THIS TO BE ANSWERED!

[Johnny Shepard]

Persephone wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Xrissie wrote...

There's a new trailer depicting a more emotional sibling death.

I KNOW! I'VE SEEN IT! OMFG I HOPE THAT'S THE FINAL VERSION 

Where? WHERE? :O:O:O

Here!

[Celtic Latino]

Actually, I felt pretty sad seeing Bethany's death, Carver not so much. It's not supposed to be sad though, it's an introduction to the story, and like any Bioware story, some relative or person you knew you're whole life has to die within the first hour of the story.



Wesley's death didn't sadden me, but I did find it pretty powerful with the musical score, especially if you *spoiler* have Aveline finish him off.

[MorrigansLove]

Erm, FYI, in origins, the human noble's parent's death is very sad.

[maselphie]

That trailer couldn't be the "new version", it's very rendered, meaning it was made for the trailer only. Methinks. Because the scenario isn't even the same.

[Mlaar]

not sure what kind of emotion people are expecting from this death!! do you expect a breakdown wailing to the heavens about how cruel the maker is!! what did you expect?

I held the body of my closest friend many years back, to look at me you wouldnt have known he had passed away, life went on, I was pragmatic and carried on, it took over a week before greif hit me and I broke down.

hawke came across as pragmatic in the demo surrounded by darkspawn in the vicinity he knew thier would be time to grieve later so carried on.

people need to stop being so judgemental and saying ohh it didnt make me feel like i thought it would as death effects us in different ways.

[maselphie]

Mlaar wrote...

I held the body of my closest friend many years back, to look at me you wouldnt have known he had passed away, life went on, I was pragmatic and carried on, it took over a week before greif hit me and I broke down..

Okay, that is true and I have personally felt that way before. It doesn't even hit you until a while down the road.

However, that seems like a sentiment that can only be recreated by us knowing that. Not everyone has lost someone and felt that, so it doesn't come off in the scene. Not even to me, who totally knows what you're talking about. That seems more appropriate for a novel where you can describe Hawke's inner feelings about it. But they're taking the movie route, and every nuance we get is from the actors dialogue, and body language though that is harder for game sprites than people.

Music, more time, a more sensible reason to go charging into the beast-- there are plenty of ways this could have been fixed.

Modifié par maselphie, 24 février 2011 - 01:44 .

[Suron]

well hopefully we end up seeing more in the full game (IT WAS JUST A DEMO) - though I doubt it.



still I agree...we have no reason to care about the sibling....other then Bio saying "CARE IT'S YOUR BROTHER OR SISTER DUUUR HURRRR"