156 réponses à ce sujet

[mikeburns]

Demon Velsper wrote...

c0wb0ycliche wrote...

Xbox 360 and PS3 were designed for HDTV use. Period.

Ah, that must be why there are settings for non-hdmi cables and 4:3 ratio even though HDTV is only 16:9. Great thinking there.

Blu Ray players too lol. Hooking up a 1080p output video device to a SDTV, that's some great thinking also. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

[NinjaMarion]

Nopheros wrote...

NinjaMarion wrote...

c0wb0ycliche wrote...

You hardly have to be a "Bioware sycophant" to defend them in this matter. I have plenty of personal beef with Bioware (specifically over the lack of same-sex romance in the Mass Effect series and the now "Mass-Effecting" of Dragon Age) but this same issue (that of text size on SDTVs) has been brought up in numerous places for numerous games since the dawn of HD game systems.

Xbox 360 and PS3 were designed for HDTV use. Period. I'm sorry that not everyone likes this.The fact that it works on an SDTV doesn't change that. Like a Blu Ray player. You can hook it up to an SDTV and watch a Blu Ray on it, but that's not what it's designed for.

And if the issue relates to a visual impairment, then play on PC where it's easier to read. That's not cold. Being deaf, I wouldn't play a game that didn't have subtitles or relied on sound. That doesn't mean I'd expect every game developer to make every game playable for the hearing impaired. An example that comes to mind is the sound neccesary puzzle in Prince of Persia. Should they have taken that out since I can't hear it? No.

If you can't read the text, get an HDTV, play it on PC, or don't play it.

No, you pretty much do have to be a BioWare sycophant. Here's the breakdown: 

Text in DA:O Readable. No complaints.

Text in ME2: Tiny and hard to read. Lots of complaints. BioWare claims they're listening and will look into fixing. Says it's impossible to fix.

Text in DA2: Tinier and nearly impossible to read. Still lots of complaints. BioWare outright ignored the fact a large enough portion of their fans made a fuss over enough to get their attention and then went with unnecessarily tiny text again. Now they claim that if there's fan feedback warranting it, they'll fix it in this game, magically somehow circumventing the process that made it impossible last time.

Even if you THINK "HD is the standard and pretty much everyone has HD nowadays and the ten people that don't can go to hell", the complaints BioWare's received both this time and last time shows it's a big deal to a big number of people and BioWare's handling of this is callous and proving them to not care about their fans, as well as being bad business. Again, I will ask you, how would slightly larger text (similar to DA:O) that is readable on SD AND HD have possibly been a bad thing or hurt sales? Last time I checked, DA:O sold pretty well and didn't have hundreds of thousands of HD users complaining the font was too big.

So yeah, even if you think you can defend the position that HD is the norm now and everyone should have one (And you can't, as I've already shot that arguement to hell numerous times, but I digress...), you CAN'T defend BioWare being aware of a problem for a large portion of their users, claiming to care about said users but saying they couldn't fix it, then outright ignoring that problem (and in fact, making it worse), only to give the same fan feedback "we'll look into it" line again, when the simple fix would have made everyone happy (And I do mean everyone, as even HD users are finding this text too small to read. Again, you can argue HD use is the norm and everyone should have one, but when people that DO have one and properly prescribed glasses are finding the text to be too small and hard to read, that's pretty much proof BioWare ****ed up and the text is just too damn small).

Why not just get an HDTV? Problem solved 

I hope you're just being sarcastic or mocking the idiots saying this, because if not, you're an idiot.

If you are being serious, you clearly missed the point where I said the text is still too small on many HDTVs. If you're just mocking, then that's something they've missed over and over.

And actually, *I* DID buy an HDTV. I ordered it last Friday when this whole thing was still fairly new simply because it was too good a deal to pass up and I'm a financially irresponsible idiot, because unlike what all the BioWare / HD apologists claim in this thread, I really can't afford it. And even though I did purchase one, as stated many, MANY times in this thread, there's still a chance it'll still be too damn small to comfortably or easily read, even though I have, in fact, bought an HDTV.

[Lazy Murph]

NinjaMarion wrote...
No. No, no, no. How do you still not get this? When tapes switched over to CDs, any NEW tapes you bought would still work. Just like with your SD compatible Xbox, any NEW games you buy until the next HD-only Xbox, should still be playable on your SDTV. THAT is a valid comparison, and is not the case here. There's never been a case where the old tech just suddenly wasn't good enough even though media was still coming out on a format it could use. Even with the switch from B&W to color, you could still use the TV. Much like with 99% of HD stuff, you just didn't get as pretty a picture, but it was still functional. This tiny-text, unusable by SDTV garbage is NOT the norm.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I do 'get this'. When tapes switched to CD, new tapes still worked, correct. But music started to favour CD's over cassette's, quite quickly phasing out cassette's in only a few years to the point where new music would only come out on CD. This happened in just a few years. Same thing with DVD > VHS. Same thing is happening with HDTV > SDTV.

You keep saying that the game basically doesn't work on your setup as you struggle to read the text...but the game does work on your SDTV, just not the way it's intended to as the game doesn't officially support the resolution you're viewing it at....which is what? NTSC 4:3 is 720x480 right? Going by DAO (so I assume DA2 will be the same), the lowest resolution officially supported is 720p (1280x720) on the 360.

NinjaMarion wrote...
I've pointed out actual figures versus you people's baseless claims of "my gramma has one so everyone must!" and you idiots claim they're not good enough numbers.

Look Statto, your precious statistics and percentages that you've 'provided' are either nearly ten months out of date, guesswork or from some retarded survey of 735 people!

I just did a survey of the 100 people on my 360 friends list (this is a lie, I haven't). 97 out of the 100 said they game on a HDTV, that means 97% of people everywhere have a HDTV! OMFG!!11!!!

^^^ That's about as accurate as your 735 person survey.

NinjaMarion wrote...
You know what? Screw you. You start actually providing facts and proper arguments rather than being trolling retards. The burden of proof is on you idiots making these claims.

I'm not trolling, I'm expressing my opinion which doesn't sit well with you as you seem to think that your opinion is the 'correct' one. And I'm not going to comb the net to find you stats as I really have better things to do with my life. Oh btw, you've managed to neatly side step my previous question:

Why is your opinion the right one just because you won't (or can't) upgrade to a HD set?

Also, I find it extremely funny that you're getting really worked up over this because everyone doesn't fall to their knees in agreement with you.


---------


If you were going to buy the game on PC but your setup only just reached the published minimum requirements (therefore, the game wouldn't run as intended), would you then come to this forum and start a thread entitled: Players with older PCs marginalized again? I don't think you would. You'd either not buy the game as your setup won't run it properly or you'd upgrade your rig, right?

When you turn a 360 game box over, at the bottom there are boxes which have info inside them such as how many players the game supports, how much space a game save takes, the supported screen resolutions, any Live-enabled features etc.

These are the Xbox 360 equivalents of PC system requirements. In the small print below all that is a sentence that includes the words: system requirements.

You are ignoring the games requirements to be utilized properly and then spouting on here that you're basically being victimised!

DAO box:


As you can see in the image above there is nowhere on the box that says SDTV (resolution) that's because the game doesn't officially support SD resolutions. Just because the 360 actually displays in SD doesn't mean it's designed to do so - it's a HD console and is marketed as such.

We can go round and round and round forever quoting posts and rewording the same difference of opinion over and over if you like. But the issue is black and white: it's a game designed to be viewed at a minumum resolution of 720p (on console), simple.

Whether you agree with it or not, like it or not, SDTV's are the VHS/Cassette of today and are being quickly phased out. The entry point to owning a HDTV is no longer the 1k+ price bracket and hasn't been for a long time. The 42" Plasma that I bought 4&1/2 years ago cost just over £1,000 - a 42" Plasma from the same manufacturer that actually has better specs than my current TV costs £399.99 today (I just did a quick search).

Modifié par Old Fecker, 02 mars 2011 - 06:46 .

[Demon Velsper]

c0wb0ycliche wrote...

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

Fact of the matter is that's it's part of the design, nullifying your argument and making it as hollow as your head.

[Lazy Murph]

Duplicate post...dunno how that happened!

Modifié par Old Fecker, 02 mars 2011 - 06:46 .

[aries1001]

Isn't there anyone who can enlighten me as to what the tech problem really is? Is it just a matter of pixelation, e.g. the pixels are too small for the big screen or it something else?

[hamlin69]

NinjaMarion wrote...

Nopheros wrote...

NinjaMarion wrote...

c0wb0ycliche wrote...

You hardly have to be a "Bioware sycophant" to defend them in this matter. I have plenty of personal beef with Bioware (specifically over the lack of same-sex romance in the Mass Effect series and the now "Mass-Effecting" of Dragon Age) but this same issue (that of text size on SDTVs) has been brought up in numerous places for numerous games since the dawn of HD game systems.

Xbox 360 and PS3 were designed for HDTV use. Period. I'm sorry that not everyone likes this.The fact that it works on an SDTV doesn't change that. Like a Blu Ray player. You can hook it up to an SDTV and watch a Blu Ray on it, but that's not what it's designed for.

And if the issue relates to a visual impairment, then play on PC where it's easier to read. That's not cold. Being deaf, I wouldn't play a game that didn't have subtitles or relied on sound. That doesn't mean I'd expect every game developer to make every game playable for the hearing impaired. An example that comes to mind is the sound neccesary puzzle in Prince of Persia. Should they have taken that out since I can't hear it? No.

If you can't read the text, get an HDTV, play it on PC, or don't play it.

No, you pretty much do have to be a BioWare sycophant. Here's the breakdown: 

Text in DA:O Readable. No complaints.

Text in ME2: Tiny and hard to read. Lots of complaints. BioWare claims they're listening and will look into fixing. Says it's impossible to fix.

Text in DA2: Tinier and nearly impossible to read. Still lots of complaints. BioWare outright ignored the fact a large enough portion of their fans made a fuss over enough to get their attention and then went with unnecessarily tiny text again. Now they claim that if there's fan feedback warranting it, they'll fix it in this game, magically somehow circumventing the process that made it impossible last time.

Even if you THINK "HD is the standard and pretty much everyone has HD nowadays and the ten people that don't can go to hell", the complaints BioWare's received both this time and last time shows it's a big deal to a big number of people and BioWare's handling of this is callous and proving them to not care about their fans, as well as being bad business. Again, I will ask you, how would slightly larger text (similar to DA:O) that is readable on SD AND HD have possibly been a bad thing or hurt sales? Last time I checked, DA:O sold pretty well and didn't have hundreds of thousands of HD users complaining the font was too big.

So yeah, even if you think you can defend the position that HD is the norm now and everyone should have one (And you can't, as I've already shot that arguement to hell numerous times, but I digress...), you CAN'T defend BioWare being aware of a problem for a large portion of their users, claiming to care about said users but saying they couldn't fix it, then outright ignoring that problem (and in fact, making it worse), only to give the same fan feedback "we'll look into it" line again, when the simple fix would have made everyone happy (And I do mean everyone, as even HD users are finding this text too small to read. Again, you can argue HD use is the norm and everyone should have one, but when people that DO have one and properly prescribed glasses are finding the text to be too small and hard to read, that's pretty much proof BioWare ****ed up and the text is just too damn small).

Why not just get an HDTV? Problem solved 

I hope you're just being sarcastic or mocking the idiots saying this, because if not, you're an idiot.

If you are being serious, you clearly missed the point where I said the text is still too small on many HDTVs. If you're just mocking, then that's something they've missed over and over.

And actually, *I* DID buy an HDTV. I ordered it last Friday when this whole thing was still fairly new simply because it was too good a deal to pass up and I'm a financially irresponsible idiot, because unlike what all the BioWare / HD apologists claim in this thread, I really can't afford it. And even though I did purchase one, as stated many, MANY times in this thread, there's still a chance it'll still be too damn small to comfortably or easily read, even though I have, in fact, bought an HDTV.

The text will not be small. The people saying its small must be playing on 20 inch HDTVs or are visually impaired.

[hamlin69]

aries1001 wrote...

Isn't there anyone who can enlighten me as to what the tech problem really is? Is it just a matter of pixelation, e.g. the pixels are too small for the big screen or it something else?

The game is developed for HD resolutions. Many game are like this.

[Lucian820]

OpDDay2001 wrote...

From one of the other threads:<br />
<br />

Sesana wrote...<br />
<br />
Well, I finally got what seems to be the final and official answer:<br />
<br />
"Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts Customer Support. I do<br />
apologize that it is difficult to read the text in the demo. I have the<br />
same size TV and play on Xbox 360 and It is difficult to read at times<br />
but this is caused by the game being played on a SDTV not an HDTV.<br />
Playing these games on SDTV will always mean that games become more and<br />
more suboptimal as HDTV's become more and more prominient."<br />
<br />
This is why nobody has answered us here. It's because the answer is, "Screw you, filthy proles. We don't want your stinking SDTV money anyways." Never mind that this is the ONLY game available now that is unplayable on SDTVs. Nevermind that BioWare is the ONLY company that feels secure enough in their market share that they feel they can alienate 10-35% of their potential consumers.<br />
<br />
Yeah, I'm done. With Dragon Age, with Mass Effect, with anything BioWare ever puts out again, regardless of whether or not I get an HDTV at some point. Because I'll still be a filthy prole, and I'll still remember that BioWare doesn't really want my money.<br />
<br />
Shall we go back to discussing the Disney Afternoon?<br />

<br />
<br />
Looks like we're SOL.

I lol'd irl.

Seriosuly, nice way to distort the statement. What is a prole anyways? Go spend the small amount of money an HDTV costs these days and welcome to the early 2000's. They can't keep making games designed that will still look decent on the 386 pentium I's, its just feasible.

[Lazy Murph]

NinjaMarion wrote...
And actually, *I* DID buy an HDTV. I ordered it last Friday when this whole thing was still fairly new simply because it was too good a deal to pass up and I'm a financially irresponsible idiot, because unlike what all the BioWare / HD apologists claim in this thread, I really can't afford it. And even though I did purchase one, as stated many, MANY times in this thread, there's still a chance it'll still be too damn small to comfortably or easily read, even though I have, in fact, bought an HDTV.

I've just reread this post of yours mate, then I went back and read every post you've made in this thread and what I've quoted and bolded is the 1st time you've mentioned that you've bought a HDTV...you certainly haven't 'stated many, MANY times in this thread'  that you've bought a HDTV.
 
If you had then I would've said bloody ages ago wtf are you complaining about then? You've just contradicted everything you've written in this thread with that comment as you're no longer going to be affected by unreadable text...???

[killswitch423]

I will say this: My HDTV is a 19" HDTV and the text is well enough large. Well, considering the size of my actual screen, at least. I have no trouble reading it without wearing my glasses, even with my astigmatism. I think the few people who have stated it's too small even in HD say so because they would like it to be a tad bigger for minor reason, not because it's unplayable. Also, the number of people who say it's not good in HD seems to be grossly overestimated as I've found two, maybe three. If someone would like to correct me, go ahead and show me.

Apparently I'm a retarded troll for disagreeing with an opinion, which I don't even completely disagree with as I wouldn't have any issue with a text size option. But if you can't accept that HDTV is the new standard, despite not being able to buy a SDTV at most retail and electronics stores, then you're just being stubborn. You don't have to like it, but you can at least admit that SDTV's are on the decline, as anyone buying a new TV had nearly no choice but to buy HD.

Now, this argument has gone on for far too long and if you still can't at least admit that HD is today's standard, then we will never reach an agreement there, but we can agree that depending upon the time/resources required to do so, a text size toggle is a win-win. But really, how many games even have this option? Personally, I'd like to make the text in certain games smaller, but I can't do that. I guess the gaming companies are marginalizing those who dislike large, cluttered text again. >_>;

[Stinkface27]

Old Fecker wrote...
I've just reread this post of yours mate, then I went back and read every post you've made in this thread and what I've quoted and bolded is the 1st time you've mentioned that you've bought a HDTV...you certainly haven't 'stated many, MANY times in this thread'  that you've bought a HDTV.
 
If you had then I would've said bloody ages ago wtf are you complaining about then? You've just contradicted everything you've written in this thread with that comment as you're no longer going to be affected by unreadable text...???

Some people don't only care about themselves. =/

[NinjaMarion]

Old Fecker wrote...

NinjaMarion wrote...
And actually, *I* DID buy an HDTV. I ordered it last Friday when this whole thing was still fairly new simply because it was too good a deal to pass up and I'm a financially irresponsible idiot, because unlike what all the BioWare / HD apologists claim in this thread, I really can't afford it. And even though I did purchase one, as stated many, MANY times in this thread, there's still a chance it'll still be too damn small to comfortably or easily read, even though I have, in fact, bought an HDTV.

I've just reread this post of yours mate, then I went back and read every post you've made in this thread and what I've quoted and bolded is the 1st time you've mentioned that you've bought a HDTV...you certainly haven't 'stated many, MANY times in this thread'  that you've bought a HDTV.
 
If you had then I would've said bloody ages ago wtf are you complaining about then? You've just contradicted everything you've written in this thread with that comment as you're no longer going to be affected by unreadable text...???

Oh, for once, you're actually right. It was the other thread about this that I mentioned that in. You have a point for once in this arguement.

Again though, you're proving yourself to be an idiot though. This doesn't contradict a single thing. Does it contradict the part about how HDTVs are super cheap and everyone can afford them? Because I'm actually putting this on my credit card and then selling my car to pay that off.

Does it contradict the part about how a bunch of users with HDTVs have said it's hard to read on their screens and thus, even though I bought one, I might still have this problem, just to a smaller degree?

I'd also like to know how being able to be a ****ing person and empathize with those that also can't afford an HDTV but aren't financially irresponsible, impulsive idiots like me and are going to be stuck with an SDTV contradicts anything I've said. Or the fact that I played through the demo and had a ****ing migraine by the time I was done with it. Nothing is contradicted. I have an SDTV in my room still right this second and the demo is utterly unreadable without giving myself an aneurysm. And the full game would be unplayable, necessitating the cancellation of my preorder. I'm also capable of arguing on behalf of the SD users because... well, I ****in' feel like it.


And once again, I'll point out your extreme idiocy regarding the numbers. When you people throw out "Everyone's got HD TVs", it's up to you to support that statement. I actually found actual numbers. Yes, they're a little out of date, but they're a lot better than what you have to back your bs up with. I've asked you about ten or so times, if you can find any more recent numbers or any actual proof that HD is as universal as you think, by all means, go ahead and provide it. Until then, you've provided nothing and made no valid arguement. You lose.

[NinjaMarion]

Stinkface27 wrote...

Old Fecker wrote...
I've just reread this post of yours mate, then I went back and read every post you've made in this thread and what I've quoted and bolded is the 1st time you've mentioned that you've bought a HDTV...you certainly haven't 'stated many, MANY times in this thread'  that you've bought a HDTV.
 
If you had then I would've said bloody ages ago wtf are you complaining about then? You've just contradicted everything you've written in this thread with that comment as you're no longer going to be affected by unreadable text...???

Some people don't only care about themselves. =/

Nope. Screw you, pal. I got an HDTV now. My previous points are irrelevant, haven't you heard! SD users can all die for all I care! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HD! <_<

[JustinDP]

Don't worry. I may have an HD Television, but it is all a clever rouse.

I am secretly a general in the underground SD resistance.

[killswitch423]

I never said "everyone's got an HDTV," I said "HDs are the new standard." There IS a difference. I haven't insulted you so I'd appreciate it if you'd lay off doing so to me. Have a good one, good luck and all.

[Lazy Murph]

NinjaMarion wrote...

Old Fecker wrote...

NinjaMarion wrote...
And actually, *I* DID buy an HDTV. I ordered it last Friday when this whole thing was still fairly new simply because it was too good a deal to pass up and I'm a financially irresponsible idiot, because unlike what all the BioWare / HD apologists claim in this thread, I really can't afford it. And even though I did purchase one, as stated many, MANY times in this thread, there's still a chance it'll still be too damn small to comfortably or easily read, even though I have, in fact, bought an HDTV.

I've just reread this post of yours mate, then I went back and read every post you've made in this thread and what I've quoted and bolded is the 1st time you've mentioned that you've bought a HDTV...you certainly haven't 'stated many, MANY times in this thread'  that you've bought a HDTV.
 
If you had then I would've said bloody ages ago wtf are you complaining about then? You've just contradicted everything you've written in this thread with that comment as you're no longer going to be affected by unreadable text...???

Oh, for once, you're actually right. It was the other thread about this that I mentioned that in. You have a point for once in this arguement.

Again though, you're proving yourself to be an idiot though. This doesn't contradict a single thing. Does it contradict the part about how HDTVs are super cheap and everyone can afford them? Because I'm actually putting this on my credit card and then selling my car to pay that off.

Does it contradict the part about how a bunch of users with HDTVs have said it's hard to read on their screens and thus, even though I bought one, I might still have this problem, just to a smaller degree?

I'd also like to know how being able to be a ****ing person and empathize with those that also can't afford an HDTV but aren't financially irresponsible, impulsive idiots like me and are going to be stuck with an SDTV contradicts anything I've said. Or the fact that I played through the demo and had a ****ing migraine by the time I was done with it. Nothing is contradicted. I have an SDTV in my room still right this second and the demo is utterly unreadable without giving myself an aneurysm. And the full game would be unplayable, necessitating the cancellation of my preorder. I'm also capable of arguing on behalf of the SD users because... well, I ****in' feel like it.


And once again, I'll point out your extreme idiocy regarding the numbers. When you people throw out "Everyone's got HD TVs", it's up to you to support that statement. I actually found actual numbers. Yes, they're a little out of date, but they're a lot better than what you have to back your bs up with. I've asked you about ten or so times, if you can find any more recent numbers or any actual proof that HD is as universal as you think, by all means, go ahead and provide it. Until then, you've provided nothing and made no valid arguement. You lose.

I love the way you throw around the insults but don't actually answer the questions put to you.

Your precious numbers that you constantly bang on about are TEN MONTHS out of date...and you call me an idiot. You bleat on and on and on about percentages and penetration rates, surveys etc. like they prove your pathetic argument about people not actually having HDTVs. I was totally bored of this difference of opinion a while ago but just kept quoting you as your replies are amusing in your blinkered belief that you are right and others who don't share you viewpoint are wrong.

Your pathetic attempts at sarcasm are the icing on the cake though...especially the "I've got a HDTV now, SD owners should die"  one in your last post. Great way to deflect the fact that you contradicted yourself and didn't realise mate, bravo.

I don't need stats to backup the fact that HD is the current standard, you can go into any high street store and I guarantee you will either not be able to find a single SD set for sale or you will struggle so hard to actually find one that it's not even worth the effort. You also game on a system(s) that are marketed as HD systems yet refuse to see that fact! I'm also never going to bother to find statistics as I really can't be arsed, as unlike you, the % symbol doesn't do it for me.

Sit at your computer in your own little world with your blinkers on believing that you are right mate, crack on don't let me stop you. Better still Statto, why don't you comb the internet in search of surveys, percentages and pie charts you sad, sad little man.

Oh one more thing, you constantly call me an idiot but you yourself have said you sat through the entire DA2 demo even though it was giving you a migrane...Intelligent? Keep self-censoring your own swear words as well if it makes you feel big about yourself, like that's going to back up your 'arguments'.


What a bellend!

Modifié par Old Fecker, 02 mars 2011 - 08:16 .

[killswitch423]

Oh and you want stats? Here you go. A few years old, but even in '07 it shows that most GAMERS were hooked up to HD.

http://gamrconnect.v...id=12652&page=1

Percentage of consoles hooked up to an HDTV

Wii: 65%

XBox 360: 66%

PS3: 71%

Only a small fraction of people are using SDTVs or standard TV speakers.

There are a lot of implications of this, which could have (and have had) threads of their own. At the very least though, I hope this ends the myth that HDTV and HD support don't matter. HD is already the norm; in five years, it'll be almost ubiquitous.

This was all the way back in '07. Seriously. If you don't think those numbers have gone up since, then... ~shrug~.

[NinjaMarion]

N7_killswitch wrote...

I will say this: My HDTV is a 19" HDTV and the text is well enough large. Well, considering the size of my actual screen, at least. I have no trouble reading it without wearing my glasses, even with my astigmatism. I think the few people who have stated it's too small even in HD say so because they would like it to be a tad bigger for minor reason, not because it's unplayable. Also, the number of people who say it's not good in HD seems to be grossly overestimated as I've found two, maybe three. If someone would like to correct me, go ahead and show me.

Apparently I'm a retarded troll for disagreeing with an opinion, which I don't even completely disagree with as I wouldn't have any issue with a text size option. But if you can't accept that HDTV is the new standard, despite not being able to buy a SDTV at most retail and electronics stores, then you're just being stubborn. You don't have to like it, but you can at least admit that SDTV's are on the decline, as anyone buying a new TV had nearly no choice but to buy HD.

Now, this argument has gone on for far too long and if you still can't at least admit that HD is today's standard, then we will never reach an agreement there, but we can agree that depending upon the time/resources required to do so, a text size toggle is a win-win. But really, how many games even have this option? Personally, I'd like to make the text in certain games smaller, but I can't do that. I guess the gaming companies are marginalizing those who dislike large, cluttered text again. >_>;

I've actually never said that. In fact, I've acknowledged it. Yes, HDTVs are what's generally available in stores and is becoming the standard. The thing you people aren't acknowledging though, is that they aren't ALL that's around and supported still. Most cable companies still have far more SD channels than HD. Most games are still perfectly fine in SD. There's still a lot of people with a lot of functional SDTVs that aren't going to upgrade until those need replacing. That's what I've been stating. Yes, HDTVs are the majority. But not by such a wide margin that SDTVs belong in museums and are the thing of legend just yet.

[Mustang678]

N7_killswitch wrote...

Oh and you want stats? Here you go. A few years old, but even in '07 it shows that most GAMERS were hooked up to HD.

http://gamrconnect.v...id=12652&page=1

Percentage of consoles hooked up to an HDTV

Wii: 65%

XBox 360: 66%

PS3: 71%

Only a small fraction of people are using SDTVs or standard TV speakers.

There are a lot of implications of this, which could have (and have had) threads of their own. At the very least though, I hope this ends the myth that HDTV and HD support don't matter. HD is already the norm; in five years, it'll be almost ubiquitous.

This was all the way back in '07. Seriously. If you don't think those numbers have gone up since, then... ~shrug~.

Cutting out 30-40% of your market is just a bad idea

[killswitch423]

Well, of course not. I myself have five SD tvs in my house and one HD. However, I'm also the only gamer in the house. But you have to look at the gamer demographic, not the entire TV market. The stats above show that. Even on the back of the box of these games, as has been pointed out, 720p has been set as the optimal viewing setting. SD is not officially supported. While these games can be played on an SD screen, they are developed and tested for HD because that's what's going to be around for the coming years. HD isn't like the 3D gimmick which may or may not disappear completely; HD is here, proven to be better, and is getting more and more advanced (and cheaper). The developers have to think ahead, not look at what's being phased out. Many may not be happy about it, but there it is.

If you were developing a game, would you really optimize it for SD, or HD? I think it all has something to do with the resolution difference as far as pixels go between HD and SD. I'm not sure how large the text has to be to look good in SD and HD, or the resources required to make two different "modes", but seeing how things are going with many different games, there may be a lot more to it than we think. If it's such a no-brainer for us, I'm sure the devs have thought about it so maybe it's not as simple as we'd like to think.

Though DA:O was fine, it might have something to do with more advanced engines or whatever. Just don't expect to be able to keep on using SD for too much longer without seeing more and more of this, sorry.

[Dimwitt]

You guys can keep beating the dead horse all you want fact is.
The game went gold it won't be changed before release. A patch after release is unrealistic since it would require every single bit of text in the game to be altered.

Solutions have been offered but your nerd rage seems to be blocking your ability to read the posts here to. HDtv's are not that expensive anymore as many have stated you can get low end one's here at wal-mart for like 150.00 US for a 19''

[SorenTrigg]

Dimwitt wrote...

You guys can keep beating the dead horse all you want fact is.
The game went gold it won't be changed before release. A patch after release is unrealistic since it would require every single bit of text in the game to be altered.

However, they have stated that if feedback shows it needed, a patch could be put out (we will just have to take their word on it). And other games have before put out patches to enlarge the text, so this will not be the first time it has ever happened.

Plus, we *need* to keep this topic alive so they actually know we want this.

[Ser Isely]

hamlin69 wrote...

NinjaMarion wrote...

Nopheros wrote...

NinjaMarion wrote...

c0wb0ycliche wrote...

You hardly have to be a "Bioware sycophant" to defend them in this matter. I have plenty of personal beef with Bioware (specifically over the lack of same-sex romance in the Mass Effect series and the now "Mass-Effecting" of Dragon Age) but this same issue (that of text size on SDTVs) has been brought up in numerous places for numerous games since the dawn of HD game systems.

Xbox 360 and PS3 were designed for HDTV use. Period. I'm sorry that not everyone likes this.The fact that it works on an SDTV doesn't change that. Like a Blu Ray player. You can hook it up to an SDTV and watch a Blu Ray on it, but that's not what it's designed for.

And if the issue relates to a visual impairment, then play on PC where it's easier to read. That's not cold. Being deaf, I wouldn't play a game that didn't have subtitles or relied on sound. That doesn't mean I'd expect every game developer to make every game playable for the hearing impaired. An example that comes to mind is the sound neccesary puzzle in Prince of Persia. Should they have taken that out since I can't hear it? No.

If you can't read the text, get an HDTV, play it on PC, or don't play it.

No, you pretty much do have to be a BioWare sycophant. Here's the breakdown: 

Text in DA:O Readable. No complaints.

Text in ME2: Tiny and hard to read. Lots of complaints. BioWare claims they're listening and will look into fixing. Says it's impossible to fix.

Text in DA2: Tinier and nearly impossible to read. Still lots of complaints. BioWare outright ignored the fact a large enough portion of their fans made a fuss over enough to get their attention and then went with unnecessarily tiny text again. Now they claim that if there's fan feedback warranting it, they'll fix it in this game, magically somehow circumventing the process that made it impossible last time.

Even if you THINK "HD is the standard and pretty much everyone has HD nowadays and the ten people that don't can go to hell", the complaints BioWare's received both this time and last time shows it's a big deal to a big number of people and BioWare's handling of this is callous and proving them to not care about their fans, as well as being bad business. Again, I will ask you, how would slightly larger text (similar to DA:O) that is readable on SD AND HD have possibly been a bad thing or hurt sales? Last time I checked, DA:O sold pretty well and didn't have hundreds of thousands of HD users complaining the font was too big.

So yeah, even if you think you can defend the position that HD is the norm now and everyone should have one (And you can't, as I've already shot that arguement to hell numerous times, but I digress...), you CAN'T defend BioWare being aware of a problem for a large portion of their users, claiming to care about said users but saying they couldn't fix it, then outright ignoring that problem (and in fact, making it worse), only to give the same fan feedback "we'll look into it" line again, when the simple fix would have made everyone happy (And I do mean everyone, as even HD users are finding this text too small to read. Again, you can argue HD use is the norm and everyone should have one, but when people that DO have one and properly prescribed glasses are finding the text to be too small and hard to read, that's pretty much proof BioWare ****ed up and the text is just too damn small).

Why not just get an HDTV? Problem solved 

I hope you're just being sarcastic or mocking the idiots saying this, because if not, you're an idiot.

If you are being serious, you clearly missed the point where I said the text is still too small on many HDTVs. If you're just mocking, then that's something they've missed over and over.

And actually, *I* DID buy an HDTV. I ordered it last Friday when this whole thing was still fairly new simply because it was too good a deal to pass up and I'm a financially irresponsible idiot, because unlike what all the BioWare / HD apologists claim in this thread, I really can't afford it. And even though I did purchase one, as stated many, MANY times in this thread, there's still a chance it'll still be too damn small to comfortably or easily read, even though I have, in fact, bought an HDTV.

The text will not be small. The people saying its small must be playing on 20 inch HDTVs or are visually impaired.

lol I play on a 19" lcd TV I didn't have any problem.

[mikeburns]

I'd be shocked if they patched it for this reason. It's not going to happen. And I love how the people who keep harping on what a huge deal it is are the ones who are insulting those who are saying it's not a huge deal.

Yes, saying my head is hollow, that's the high road. I never insulted those who want the text bigger, only said that the game was developed for high resolution HD game systems, designed to be hooked up to HD televisions or computer monitors.

God. If people can complain about something, they will. And throw around insults. Mature!