279 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

I've played the demo a number of times so far and while I enjoy much of it, I was disappointed in the two-handed warrior (THW). I tend to play THW in other games, though I played a sword and shield warrior in DA:O, but the combat just didn't feel right to me in the demo.

The problem seems to be that the THW doesn't fit any niche in the group. Everything I could want to do with a THW, another class/weapon combination can do better, typically much better.

Damage:

I loved the exaggerated bits because my THW felt like a wrecking ball, but even though I pumped strength and went for the more aggressive powers, the THW had lackluster damage. Mages, archer rogues, and DW rogues all seemed to outperform the THW when it came to damage, and in the last battle at the chantry (level 7), the rogue archer and mage do so by a tremendous amount.

DW rogue seems to be more on par but I found that they were better at single, high-threat targets (ogre) while also being just as good with groups. Positioned correctly, my THW could hit three targets in a single swipe but these targets often moved around in combat so on average, I'd end up with only two in range.

For a group of three enemies, my rogue could take them out faster one-by-one than my THW could with the sort-of group damage.

Survivability:

This is where a warrior ought to shine, and Aveline as tank does this wonderfully. She can solo the ogre or Hyden with the occasional health pot. Comparatively, my THW wasn't very impressive.

In order to do effective damage, I need to engage a group of enemies, but if a group of enemies engages me, I start losing large amounts of health.

You might say that the THW has more survivability than the rogue or mage, but I disagree. If four mobs attack me as a rogue, I can stun all of them, kill one and have another at half health before they're conscious again. If things get too hairy, I have a panic button that lowers my aggro.

As a mage, I can damage, lock down, and kite if need be, and I have a panic button. Archer rogues have the same sort of abilities.

As a THW I can… soak up the damage but not well. I have access to a single-target stun and a semi-useful knockdown, but no panic button and I *have* to keep at melee range if I want to be useful. I couldn't even hope to tank the ogre as I constantly get knocked down.

The THW might be better as a tank than mages or rogues, but when it comes to non-tanking survivability, they feel weaker.

Miscellaneous:

The basic THW ability is a group knock-back and this seems horribly wrong. As a THW, I want tight clusters of enemies to attack. At lower-levels, mages and rogues also have a small radius to their AOE abilities, so tight clusters are good.

Imagine one of the first abilities for a DW rogue not being single-target, high damage like backstab, but a moderate damage ability that caused surrounding enemies to attack you.

Summery:
I am sure some of you loved the THW. That's fine and I'm not saying anyone is wrong for enjoying it. I wanted to love it every since I saw the first Lady Hawke selection screen where she steps forward and swings her what-is-she-compensating-for? size greatsword around.

When I play a two-handed warrior, I feel as though I'm being punished for not playing the right class.

If I wanted to tank, I should have picked sword and shield. If I wanted single-target DPS and CC, I should have played a rogue. If I wanted AOE damage and good CC and support, I should have played a mage.

While running up to a mob and thrashing around with my two-hander looks awesome, it quickly becomes unsatisfying if I want my PC to hold her own in the group.
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I'll bet you'll say…

I've noticed a number of common responses in regards to the demo, combat, and classes, so I'm going to try to cover my bases.

Comment: You can't judge final gameplay on an old demo.
Maria: Very true. The THW might have been tweaked since then, I didn't have access to all the abilities, and we only got 25 minutes of combat.

Comment: If you look at the other warrior abilities, you can effectively tank/damage/CC…
Maria: I have looked at the other abilities. The THW can be decent at a number of roles if they invest their abilities wisely. However, they don't seem to be as good at anything as other classes.

Comment: This is not an MMO; classes don't need to be balanced.
Maria: They do need to be fun. Feeling as though you're contributing little to the group isn't fun. Rushing up to a group of enemies, doing mediocre damage, and watching your PC herniate HP isn't fun.

Comment:If you want to X, why not just play a Y?
Maria: I probably will play a Y. As someone who's interested in the THW, however, I'd much rather play one.

[finnugold]

I have to agree with this. I played through the demo once with each class and my 2H war was the only one who managed to die to the ogre.

[DrunkenMonkey]

mmm weaksause i like it on ma warriors

[Jarek_Cousland]

It seems like it'll be the kinda class that doesnt shine until later on. Kind of how DW rogue in Origins wasnt that great until you got the later powers.







But I think the way it is in the exaggerated parts will be close to how it is endgame. Minus the 2 second cooldowns (maybe?)

[Albatroz]

I really enjoyed playing with the 2 hander, enough so that it almost tempted me away from Archer for my first playthrough. Almost. I'll definitely be playing as one and a Templar/tank in my second run, and sure it may not be the most effective build but I'll have fun doing it and I think I'll enjoy the challenge.

[Cuthlan]

Honestly, I felt a bit of the same. And I'm the two-handed loudmouth.



But I had to remind myself just how low your strength is during the unexaggerated demo. In DA:O, my strength was in the high hundreds. At the start, two-handed didn't do much damage either.



I really think that is what is missing. Once strength is up, the damage will be way up. And with Giant's Reach and Whirlwind, that will be huge damage.

[JamesX]

... Well it depends on where you stand. If you are playing the first (high level) part of the demo, 2-H warrior is a beast!!!

[Bruddajakka]

Had no problems with it myself. One thing I noticed is that early on every class ends up feeling a bit weak until you get a handle on their abilities

[Sabresandiego]

There have been a few thread about 2hand warriors being weak. I agree that they are weak in the early game, but judging by their talents it looks like they become quite strong later in the game.

[Polemists05]

I agree, I did it all, bow, damage mage, arcane mage, rogue dual, and sword and shield, and obviously two hander.



Two hander was by far the weakest. It's very odd considering it's the cannon shot in so many screenshots, and even when you start as warrior, and are asked to cut through dudes, you blow throw them in the cinematic parts.



Rogue dual wield seems to be the single combat dude of choice, he can avoid damage and do high amounts. Mage has crowd control. Sword and sheild tanks nicely. Even Mage arcane, does a decent job with buffs. I think Archer is more what TH should have been, slow powerful strikes, with some kind of ability that pushed back large groups.



I mean when I think two hander, I think Sten in sacred Ashes trailer, slicing off heads, pushing back large groups with my big sword/axe/mace. Not minor damage, and the occasional charge and one shot kill.



I loved demo, and love this game, but TH just didn't quite live up to expectations.

[panamakira]

I kind of agree with you. I usually play a THW and I had a bit more fun moving around the battle with a rogue and dealing damage all around more effectively, specially with multiple enemies surrounding me.....also when I played warrior with shield and sword, I didn't see my health lower as fast as the THW.....and I felt like I did more damage but I'm not sure~

I will probably play with sword and shield but there is one annoying sustainable ability for it I really don't like as all you do is stab and stab and stab and it drives me nuts....

I'm thinking I'm going with rogue or SSW.

Modifié par panamakira, 24 février 2011 - 01:54 .

[Nonoru]

And i also agree.It was like i wasn't doing damage while i had near to zero resistance with a warrior which should be oriented DPS.



This is probably why i will play as a S&S warrior.(and only once as a warrior)

[Eclipse_9990]

I agree. I saw people talking about how cool 2hand warrior was so I decided to roll one. I didn't enjoy it. He was just so weak compared to my Mage's, and the two rogues I tried out.

Even in the tutorial part I felt dissatisfied with his killing potential.

[The Night Haunter]

Actually, in the beggining portion of the game, if you switch weapons, you switch to a much better weapon. So if you switch from Dual wield to bow, the bow is much higher level than the Daggers. And if you switch from 2hander to sword and board the sword is a higher dps sword. So once we actually play the game and get 'real' weapons it will feel better balanced (i hope)

[Atmosfear3]

Keep in mind we don't have access to the Vanguard skill tree which has a bunch of various damage boosting abilities.



That said, I do agree that 2H wars feel a bit weak in the demo. I'll reserve final judgment when the game is released and I have access to more abilities though.

[NovenseiWarden]

 Did anyone else find archers to be the strongest class??

[stephen1493]

agreed with ^ and OP

Modifié par stephen1493, 24 février 2011 - 01:55 .

[nubbers666]

that is something i noticed to i did a 2hand  mage and rouge archer play through and  2handers sucked compared to them
how do you expect us light cloth to stay safe if we pull agro every couple of sec due to skill use lmao:P

[Funkjoker]

I too think that the 2-Handed style may be the weakest of all if the talents do not improve drastically. Your explanation is really good. Also, wth does the S&S get the indomitable feat (segregated into subfeats) while the 2H seems to have "lost" this ability?! It was the one of the major reasons the 2H kicked asses in DAO!

A very negative point is the stupidity to swing a !heavy! weapon like it weighs nothing. While it was a little bit too slow in DAO, it was really good combatwise. It's so wrong what BioWare did with it in DA2!

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 24 février 2011 - 02:01 .

[Sabresandiego]

Its obvious that 2 handed warriors are weak at level 1-6 compared to mages, archers, dual wield, etc, but I strongly believe that will change once you have whirlwind and some other key abilities.

[ajbry]

I actually loved the performance of my THW in the demo and am probably going to use it for my first playthrough. Your points all seem valid, though; I just think it'll balance itself out as the game goes along.



Never played as a THW in Origins, either. Seemed too slow and deliberate. The demo definitely changed my mind for DA2, however!

[Altima Darkspells]

After playing the demo, I'd really have to see how much defense is added by armor and items.



Because, as it stands, unless you're investing in it throughout the game, it's pointless to add cunning to your two handed warrior. The defense percentage just doesn't scale well, and all those points you're losing just to not get hit a quarter or half a time could be invested in strength to just allow you to kill stuff a lot faster.



I'm beginning to think that the 2handed warrior tanking skills don't live in surviving damage, but simply bringing enemies into a large cluster where they can be nuked from other classes, hit with Miasmic Flask or confusion, put down with Sleep, etc. The warrior may also be able to keep the enemies down for half a minute between skills like Quake or Whirlwind.



It's a bit hard to judge, since the game auto-picks Hawke's skills after the time jump. Still, as of now, I'd have to agree that yeah, the two handers seem to be the weakest weapon choice (again). Now they don't even have Indomitable.

[Icy Magebane]

Cross-class combos are important for maximizing damage... there are some skills that have 200% damage vs. Brittle targets, and one of Whirlwind's upgrades is a 100% critical chance. Depending on what other skills you learn, 2H warriors can be powerhouses. Massacre instantly kills enemies with 20% and 10% health (normal and lieutenants)... plus there are skills to increase attack rate, damage output, critical chance, etc... I think it just depends on how you build the character and whether or not your party can set up combos easily.

[VendettaI154]

NovenseiWarden wrote...

 Did anyone else find archers to be the strongest class??

In my experience, I did a ton more damage than any other class when playing as an archer. Took that ogre down extremely quickly.

[Maconbar]

I think that the one of the developers indicated that a 2handed warrior would do more net dmg when up against 3 mobs (2.5). With fewer mobs the rogue would do more dmg so I think your observation is correct there. Probably best in situations where the s/s warrior can draw aggro and then the 2h is basically stacked on top for max aoe dmg.



Totally agree that aoe knockback doesn't work well with the 2h warrior.



On the whole I found the DA:2 2h warrior to be much more enjoyable than its DA:O version.