279 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyAvenger]

My first playthrough will be this. Heck I enjoyed the demo build, so the fact they pumped it even more is fantastic.

[Zkyire]

[spam post removed]

Wasn't spam, I was genuinely dismayed at the idea of 1-hit killing BOSSES.

Modifié par IEatWhatIPoo, 24 février 2011 - 02:26 .

[wulfsturm]

Cuthlan wrote...

He still could have said it.

He could have, but if he did the universe as we know it would have imploded.

[Adhin]

MasterSamson88 wrote...

So you mean to say that the 2H warrior build we see in the demo isn't the build in the finished product?

No, the demo is from a much, much older build. It's basically the old converntion demo with some added stuff thats more recent and a tad more balanced. But ultimately most skills (stat wise) and some other base stuff (like starting stats) and overall balance just isn't what we're getting in the full game.

Check this thread out (bioware) to get an idea of the actual skill details. He took on screen photos of the stuff and listed out majority of the skill details. Also if you click the bioware thing you can see tons and tons of information from Peter as to the workings of stuff.

basically think of the demo as a peek at whats to come, and then realize the final game is a much more finished, balanced product. 

[Atmosfear3]

Sabresandiego wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

Two handed isn't suppose to be a tank, that's a job for S&S, two handed is suppose to be more of a glass cannon IE: they deal more damage but they also take more damage.

According to who? Are you telling me the defender tree isnt available for 2 handers? I have news, it is.

Speaking of which, I actually have a 2H tank build in the works though I am skeptical how effectively a 2H war can tank enemies that are tough (i.e. bosses). 

I was thinking something along the lines of:

BATTLEMASTER (4)
Rally
Unite
Battle Synergy
Fearless Synergy

WARMONGER (4)
Pommel Strike
Tremor
Quake
Taunt

DEFENDER (7)
Stonewall
Bulwark
Adamant
Turn the Blade
Raise the Guard
Elemental Aegis
Resilience

TWO-HANDED (5)
Mighty Blow
Scythe
Reaper
Giant's Reach
Whirlwind

This is all of course just speculation and largely incomplete in the grand scheme of things since we don't know how many bonus talent points we would get from a full playthrough but like I said, its in the works

Modifié par Atmosfear3, 24 février 2011 - 02:28 .

[sonsonthebia07]

I generally roll a warrior my first time through but I'm almost certainly going to be doing a DW/archery rogue now. Everything aside, I found it to be much more enjoyable than the 2hwarrior. I think it's like people are saying in that it simply lacks the "oomph" needed to bludgeon groups of enemies about like ragdolls at the beginning of the game. The normal attacks felt like they lacked power and weren't doing much more than the rogue's lightning quick pokes. I expect it will become much stronger once you get deeper into the talent trees.

[Cuthlan]

wulfsturm wrote...

Cuthlan wrote...

He still could have said it.

He could have, but if he did the universe as we know it would have imploded.

Only if he's been putting points into Strength!

[Yrkoon]

Maria Caliban wrote...


The problem seems to be that the THW doesn't fit any niche in the group..

I have a  very strong  hunch that 2h-warriors will be the ultimate tag-team partner for your party's mage.  Even from playing on the low character levels  of the demo, I got the sense that they were practically designed to take advantage of  groups of mobs that your mage just disabled.  Scythe, Whirlwind attack, Giant's Reach,   these are skills made to punish multiple enemies at once.  And if  what I've heard about stagger combos is accurate, a strength based 2h-warrior will have no melee equal in that regard.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 février 2011 - 02:29 .

[Arttis]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

[spam post removed]

Wasn't spam, I was genuinely dismayed at the idea of 1-hit killing BOSSES.

I doubt tis really killing elite bosses in a single attack.
Prolly 5-10 seconds of using the best abilities with the best support.

[ajbry]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Maria, I can sympathize with you. It wasn't too too long ago that the QA content team was doing playthroughs and combat balance testing. I was playing as a 2-handed warrior and felt much the same way you do, that 2-handed warriors are hardy enough and don't do enough damage and don't feel powerful enough. Several discussions were held with combat-specialized QA and bugs were filed. After more discussion, some changes were made to make the 2-handed warrior a more viable and fun class earlier in the game.

Now, while 2-handed warrior takes a little getting used to, as it's not the traditional superbad 2-handed warrior that you'd find in other games, it is far more useful early in the game, and warrior players have many options for speccing. Our QA lead min-maxed a two-handed warrior into doing ridiculously massive damage to the point of one-shotting boss creatures.

This may or may not make this class more fun for you, but it was a problem that I am confident we've addressed many of the concerns you've brought up and made the class more fun than what the demo shows. It is still a bit of a slow-starter class, though, as it doesn't have the shininess of mages or the speed of rogues.

YMMV.

The clarification is much appreciated - and now I don't feel like a total idiot for rolling with one during my first run.

[Maria Caliban]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Maria, I can sympathize with you. It wasn't too too long ago that the QA content team was doing playthroughs and combat balance testing. I was playing as a 2-handed warrior and felt much the same way you do, that 2-handed warriors are hardy enough and don't do enough damage and don't feel powerful enough. Several discussions were held with combat-specialized QA and bugs were filed. After more discussion, some changes were made to make the 2-handed warrior a more viable and fun class earlier in the game.

Now, while 2-handed warrior takes a little getting used to, as it's not the traditional superbad 2-handed warrior that you'd find in other games, it is far more useful early in the game, and warrior players have many options for speccing. Our QA lead min-maxed a two-handed warrior into doing ridiculously massive damage to the point of one-shotting boss creatures.

This may or may not make this class more fun for you, but it was a problem that I am confident we've addressed many of the concerns you've brought up and made the class more fun than what the demo shows. It is still a bit of a slow-starter class, though, as it doesn't have the shininess of mages or the speed of rogues.

YMMV.

That is AWESOME to hear. :happy:

I know that it's not easy to make every class shine in a demo. I hate ragging on a class because it doesn't fit my preconceptions of what it ought to do. It takes time for some classes to come into their own and I appreciate the reassurance that THW can hold their own at higher levels.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 24 février 2011 - 02:42 .

[coolide]

I rolled through things with a two-handed warrior. So if anything is weaksauce, it's your skill.

[Taleroth]

Something's wonky with defense. The difference between 12 and 13 cunning was insane. I think my characters had 5% defense with the starting stat. And jumped to 53% (or 57%) from a single point of cunning.

I had survivability problems for a couple of playthroughs.  Until I started increasing cunning.

Modifié par Taleroth, 24 février 2011 - 02:32 .

[Maconbar]

coolide wrote...

I rolled through things with a two-handed warrior. So if anything is weaksauce, it's your skill.

No need to be a jerk about it.

[Arttis]

thats only 53% against normal.

it gets lower and lower vs high rankers.

[Sabresandiego]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Maria, I can sympathize with you. It wasn't too too long ago that the QA content team was doing playthroughs and combat balance testing. I was playing as a 2-handed warrior and felt much the same way you do, that 2-handed warriors are hardy enough and don't do enough damage and don't feel powerful enough. Several discussions were held with combat-specialized QA and bugs were filed. After more discussion, some changes were made to make the 2-handed warrior a more viable and fun class earlier in the game.

Now, while 2-handed warrior takes a little getting used to, as it's not the traditional superbad 2-handed warrior that you'd find in other games, it is far more useful early in the game, and warrior players have many options for speccing. Our QA lead min-maxed a two-handed warrior into doing ridiculously massive damage to the point of one-shotting boss creatures.

This may or may not make this class more fun for you, but it was a problem that I am confident we've addressed many of the concerns you've brought up and made the class more fun than what the demo shows. It is still a bit of a slow-starter class, though, as it doesn't have the shininess of mages or the speed of rogues.

YMMV.

That is AWESOME to hear. :happy:

I know that it's not easy to make every class shine in a demo and I hate ragging on a class because it doesn't fit my preconceptions of what it ought to do. I understand it takes time for some classes to come into their own and I appreciate the reassurance that THW can hold their own at higher levels.

When Stanly claims the min/max warrior was one shotting boss monsters, that makes me wonder if they actually nerfed some of the 2 handed warriors abilities at the high end, and improved some at the low end. Maybe there was a skill in berserker or something that allowed you to 1 shot things, who knows.

What I can tell you though is that cooldowns are longer in the more recent builds Ive seen then the demo. Mightly Blow was a 15 second cooldown in the demo, but 20 seconds in the popular thread here. Not sure how that helps warriors besides making them an auto-attack bot (one of the reasons I hate low levels)

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 24 février 2011 - 02:38 .

[Taleroth]

Arttis wrote...

thats only 53% against normal.
it gets lower and lower vs high rankers.

Yeah, but it was a mere 5% before.  Which is simply too low and too drastic a difference for one attribute point.

[Adhin]

My first playthrough is gonna be a 2H'er for sure. Give ya an idea of what it'll look like, add Berserker then Reaver into the mix but heres it to lvl 10.

Kurn Hawke - Warrior / Berserker / Reaver
1: Pommel Strike - A
2: Mighty Blow - A
3: Taunt - A
4: Sunder - P
5: Scythe - A
6: Bravery - S
7:
8: Shattering Blow - U (Mighty Blow)
9: Bravado - U (Bravery)
10: Bravura - U (Bravery)

With Bravery fully upgraded (Bravado/Bravura) you end up getting 10% Attack, 3% crit and 5% dmg for every enemy with in your 10m radius past the 1st. So think about that, say a simple 5 enemy group your looking at 40% attack (thats directly added on, so +40% chance to hit - probably max you out), +12% Crit, and +20% damage bonus. Not only does that effect all basic attacks but (aside from the hit chance) it'll also effect all other abilities you have as well. And the more enemies, the higher the stats!

Plus add in Berserker and Reaver and he'll gain more and more powerful the more hurt he gets, with abilities to self-heal from Devour (which I don't think uses corpses anymore). Gonna be one wreckless son of a **** hahaha! ahh and he'll be my only 'tank', lots and lots of str/con (mostly con).

Keep in mind all forms of healing currently are %based, so actually having a giant HP pool means something this time around, it also factors into if you get knocked back. As being knocked back or playing out animations is %max hp based.

[Beren082]

It actually felt rather nice to me. The 2 hander was able to damage multiple targets, albeit a little less then other classes, but some of the skills caused instant devastation. So they can be hulks when they need to be, but they're not overpowered. I think they're pretty cool.

[Maria Caliban]

coolide wrote...

I rolled through things with a two-handed warrior. So if anything is weaksauce, it's your skill.

It might be that the THW takes more skill to use than the other classes I played with or that their optimal combat style is one I'm not familiar/good at.

I'm glad to know you had a more positive experience than I did.

[The Night Haunter]

After Mr. Woos reassurance that all is well with the universe i have decided to play a 2hander as my first char instead of a dual wield rogue.

[Adhin]

Closest I got to dying in the demo was when I got to cocky with a Rogue DW'er. And I avoided death by you know...running away hehe. And the mage I did that was 100% creation and had no actual attack spells. So lesson to take from that is, gods sakes make sure you got an attack spell as a mage early on. But that aura ability is freakin' sweet, 20% Defense (direct 20% chance they miss you). Definitely hope Merrill has access to that for my Warrior play through.

I did notice though in relation to warrior damage your position matters a good bit. I had a lot of things around me but was only hitting 2-3 sometimes cause one was just a bit to far off in one direction. So I'd often back up a bit to re-group them, try and cluster them more so I could get optimal targets.

[Sabariel]

I didn't play a THW, but I did notice that Carver didn't do much damage and died... a lot.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

2-h was fine. Aoe melee damage was great. Whirlwind is a ton of fun. And, if the exaggerated portion is supposed to be what classes play like at end game...well, all class choices exploded Darkspawn by touching them, so I have no doubt 2-h warrior will be fine at end game as well.



Contrast this (or any melee really) with DA:O where you toggled your five sustained abilities and then maybe had enough stamina to use a skill at the start of a fight.



I really enjoyed things this time around and 2-h warrior will be my first playthrough.

[Veex]

This usually tends to be the case in most games with gear dependent melee classes. Until you've got the weapon, armor and necessary attributes to support your optimum build they can feel a little lackluster. I certainly felt that, as far as scaling, the two handed warrior also felt weakest in the earliest part of DA:O as well. Well, except maybe archers.