279 réponses à ce sujet

[Adhin]

Well you'll still need to get aggro in besides just the 4-5 your hitting. That said theres more then plane 'taunt'. My build, for instance, will be using Bravery fully upgraded, Bravado upgrade does a threat transfer tick every second that draws in enemies around you in 10m radius.On top of that it'll do 10% attack, 3% crit and 5% dmg (with the 2nd upgrade) per enemy past the 1st. Actually the threat thing is 50%, per target past first so it should ultimately be more effective then base taunt.

Plus you got other classes means of dumping threat and all that. But the main difference in tanking is like I said further up, 2H kills faster and WnS (if you go with the specific tank sustained ability it has) is more about outlasting as you only target 1, and your dmg takes a -25% hit. Think about that you go from doing .7% (not even 1%) more dmg then a 2H warrior with identical stats per target but you give that up for only targetteing 1, and doing less dmg, putting you at about 76% of a 2h'ers total dmg output.

WnS is a better 'tank' at face value, they're ultimately comparable depending on play style.

[ViSeiRa]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

The fact that you think you need to taunt the enemies yourself as a 2-h shows how close minded you are. Nothing is stopping your 2-h warrior from aoeing clusters of enemies your tank has taunted.

The fact that you think you can AOE enemies who are clustered around another characters as effectively as enemies who are around you show how much you have thought of you reply.

Enemies clustered around Aveline, full circle, you'll hit max 2-3 guys, because they're arcing towards her, if they're arcing towards you that means more enemies to hit, did you see the Cone of Cold impact on the Now Playing vid? think along the same line.

[ViSeiRa]

Case in point



What do you see here? do you see the AOE curve on the ground? that'll hit all five enemies, why? because they're facing you, imagine Aveline standing at the other side and these enemies are rushing towards her, you'll easily miss the ones on the far left and right, better yet keep the same combination of enemies and reverse the AOE curve and see what happens. 

That's exaclty what's gonna happen with 2 Handers, they hit in a similar arc, so enemies clustered around you = more enemies to hit, clustered around your tank = less enemies to hit... so yes Taunt would be very useful for 2 Handers.

Modifié par ViSeirA, 24 février 2011 - 06:28 .

[Adhin]

Yup ViSeirA has the right of that one. Its what I was talking about efficiency earlier and maximizing your 2H warriors damage. He's best when HES the one taking all the ****. And I'm gonna LOVE it. Only warrior I'll have with me, currently thinking Merrill and Isabela, swapping out the 4th slot for whoever is required or I feel like at any given time.

If I have Aveline with me I'll be setting her up as what I call the emergency Tank. It's like an off-tank but they only do there job if im getting my ass handed to me. Basically she'll have a fully ugpraded taunt, but AI tactic condition to only use if my HP is below 25%. If it gets that far down for an extended period of time then I'll need the taunt off to get a bit of a reprieve.

Other wise its all on me =D

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

/facepalm



I reiterate your close mindedness. There's nothing stopping you from standing right next to your tank as it gathers mobs if you're really that hell bent on maximizing your aoe.



That said, you clearly do not enjoy playing 2-h warrior. It's ok. The world won't end. Those of us who do will continue on with our happy little lives.

[Zhel_Ryn]

*shrug* Holding the aggro or not as the two hander is up to the player. Positioning is all it's about, and yes, tanking will make that part of the job easier. Me? I'm with Adhin, I will be tanking as a two hander, with Varric and Anders, plus a random for situational story/needs in tow. Fun times ahead, hurry up 8th!

PS: Love the picture. It shows what you're speaking of, but at the same time, it's hilarious knowing that that Cone misses the two closer targets due to them moving passed the mage! =P

Modifié par Zhel_Ryn, 24 février 2011 - 06:36 .

[ViSeiRa]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

/facepalm

I reiterate your close mindedness. There's nothing stopping you from standing right next to your tank as it gathers mobs if you're really that hell bent on maximizing your aoe.

That said, you clearly do not enjoy playing 2-h warrior. It's ok. The world won't end. Those of us who do will continue on with our happy little lives.

LOL, now you really sound absurd, if DA2 minimized shuffling issues you're advertising them, and you do seem like the one who always hit it on casual or normal, try doing what you're suggesting on Nightmare and get back to me after that.

Hawke: "ROAR, I'm damaging my tank!! because he doesn't have enough"

Modifié par ViSeirA, 24 février 2011 - 06:38 .

[ViSeiRa]

Zhel_Ryn wrote...

*shrug* Holding the aggro or not as the two hander is up to the player. Positioning is all it's about, and yes, tanking will make that part of the job easier. Me? I'm with Adhin, I will be tanking as a two hander, with Varric and Anders, plus a random for situational story/needs in tow. Fun times ahead, hurry up 8th!

PS: Love the picture. It shows what you're speaking of, but at the same time, it's hilarious knowing that that Cone misses the two closer targets due to them moving passed the mage! =P

That I agree with, I'll be tanking with my 2 Hander on Hard as well.

LOL, yeah Dan missed them in the video, but in a normal situation they'd be standing attacking either you or your tank not rushing towards something 

Modifié par ViSeirA, 24 février 2011 - 06:43 .

[TheJist]

Seems like the two hander warrior has changed it purpose less of a single target more of a aoe damage. Kinda wish they would have kept dual wielding warriors in the game they were my favorite.

[RPGamer13]

There's a difference between being a slow starting setup and being severely underpowered.



Thanks to Stanley Woo, my mind is put at ease. One-hit ko boss type enemiea? Sweet, just what I am looking for.



Also, I think the stats in the demo might be glitched.

[Adhin]

Yarr Zhel_Ryn, yarr! 2H warrior slaughter fest

Modifié par Adhin, 24 février 2011 - 07:47 .

[Shinimas]

Just wait till Rogue gets permanent +120% to damage. Question is, is it worth bringing a THW Warrior an offtank of AoE damage dealer?



I don't think so yet.

[Adhin]

-deletes wall of text-

Your thinking of this: Blindside Requires: Level 5
The rogue beceoms capable of more
potent attacks when engaging distracted opponents. Any target not
actively engaging the rogue suffers increased damage from any of the
rogue's attacks.
Damage: 120% vs. enemies engaging other allies
Type: Passive ability

That's 120%, not +120%. What it ultimately means? itas basically +20% dmg. Bravery fully upgraded is 5% per target in a 10m radius around the warrior. You can 'easily' get 5+ targets near him to start wracking up that, 5 enemies in range is +20%. And hes still hitting multiple enemies. So yes Warrior is still king of group fighting.

Modifié par Adhin, 24 février 2011 - 08:45 .

[Shinimas]

Yay for math! Seriously.



By the way, Cleave is PLUS 100% to damage. For 15 seconds with 20 sec cooldown. Hmm, I think I can see the light.

[Zhel_Ryn]

Don't forget other talent trees as well. You could go the Vanguard route and have a +100% damage increase with 75% uptime, on top of +10% attack/crit chance or 10/25% damage/crit damage from the sustainables. I can see a warrior, either weapon style, set up for pure carnage; two handed is just nutty.



Not to say rogues aren't fantastic in their own right. If/when the battle dwindles down to just the boss left, that rogue will be tearing that poor sod a new one, far faster than any warrior build could dream without additional meatbags. Add to that the utilities and easy crit stacking the rogue gets, ouch.

[Purgatious]

class discussion is pointless with what we've seen. For all we know warriors get a spec which makes 2h'ed the most powerful in the game, its unclear.

[Adhin]

Oh yeah in comparison just base dmg, not counting talents or any of that. a 2H warrior vs a rogue is, as Peter said about a 1:2.7 ratio. Rogues DPS nearly tripples a warrior at base so, once them numbers plummet - rogues a ****ing king of 'murder town'.

On a side note i think ive played a tad to much bulletstorm past 2 days.

-edit-
Actually math makes it pretty clear as its the primary driving force behind the game. And Dev. Peter THomas has been kind enough to clear up a lot of that kinda stuff in this thread here. So yeah we can actually be pretty... accurate with some of this kinda stuff, about as accurate as you can be when you look at skills and know how mechanics work anyways.

All thats left is to actually try it and tweak a few things here and there timing wise. That and we don't know any details on specialization skills - that could all be a big game changer.

Modifié par Adhin, 24 février 2011 - 08:58 .

[Ziggeh]

I had pretty much the same feelings as Maria, indeed, both the warrior classes felt a little left behind in the awesome stakes. At least at first. Picking up Giant's Reach changed things a bit for me, and while I'm not entirely convinced to play one, it will definitely be a part of my party makeup (alongside my other 5-6 interests, dammit). Seeing the effect of a modified Mighty Blow on a crowd was impressive.



I think you need to treat them different. Acting more like an AoE reticule than the drill-down-enemies rogue. Attempting to do lots of damage generally rather than to specific targets. This seems counter intuitive to me, but I suspect will be effective.

[marcusgs221]

im not sure why there is even a comparison between THW and rogue? one is single target and one is AOE. they have very different roles in the group. comparing their damage is like comparing their tanking ability. single target the rogue blows it away but if you add up all the damage from AOE attacks it is more even. i dont feel that there should even be a comparison here.

[Adhin]

Agreed marcusgs221, and I'll add that I love how they've split the 3 classes up and think they all bring multiple bits of awesome to the table. It's gonna be a damn pleasure to build all the party members and play on a harder difficulty being forced to use them all to great effect.

[HTTP 404]

the specialization such as warmonger and vanguard will make two handed a power house by mid levels

[Adhin]

I know, I know this is going to be horribly nitpicky of me HTTP 404 but.. Warmonger and Vanguard are base webs not specializations. That's Templar, Reaver, and Berserker.

...but yeah, definitely power houses.

[LilyasAvalon]

I'm agreeing with Maria here. I played through all classes, rogue archer, rogue dual weilder, warrior 2h, warrior shield and mage. And for some reason, Warrior 2h... it felt underplayed compared to the other classes. ._.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the changes they've made but somehow, it just doesn't feel as powerful or potent as any of the other combinations. Perhaps that will change once I am able to play more than just the hour they gave us.

[Mightyg]

personally I felt I was doing more damage overall with 2 hand. I think I prefer the aoe range on it compared to the rogue daggers and archer arrow. Also the beginning scene with the 2 hand where you have all your abilities is absolute destruction.