245 réponses à ce sujet

[Catalyst38]

mrsph wrote...

Vicious wrote...

Look how long it took Fergus Cousland to get out of the wilds.

And how fast Wynne got to the Circle Tower, which is further than Lothering faster than the Warden.

Characters move at the speed of plot.

i say wynne can teleport just because you never saw it in the game doesn't mean she cant do it .

Modifié par Catalyst38, 25 février 2011 - 02:11 .

[kedcoleman]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

Hawke didn't have a Witch of the Wilds as a guide.

And yet he still got himself out of the Wilds and back home--injured, exhausted, with very little rest and constantly on the run from darkspawn.

You know what Carver and warrior/rogue Hawke are?  BATMAN

There.  Fixed that for you.

[panamakira]

Catalyst38 wrote...

panamakira wrote...

But I remember Flemeth saying to Hawke that she couldn't take the medallion herself since she needed to be somewhere else. I'm assuming this is the day after the fight and Carver and Hawke barely had time to pick up mom and sister and then run away from darkspawn. The following morning when the Warden woke up from injuries, I'm assuming is the same morning Hawke is running away with family. Flemeth needed to be there for the Warden and make sure they were good to go to stop the Blight.

I fail to see the continuity problem here.

your wrong Hawke gets his family out after Lotherings destruction or during the warden woke up far before that.

Fair enough. Then maybe Hawke and family stayed in Lothering thinking it might hold and it didn't so they flee.....

[Kromex]

Teleporting was against magic rules. At least in world of DA1-in the world of DA2 rogues do it.



As for Fergus he was in coma for long time cared for by Chasind.

[Lekwid]

Well, given that the Hawkes have an estate in Kirkwall, I'd take it their family is pretty wealthy. Perhaps they were some kind of noble family in Lothering and the poor people rioted and haters hated and they were stuck fending off the haters. Then the horde swept through Lothering and the rioters acted as a buffer for their escape.

[marcusgs221]

It's hard to say a timeline is off based on a demo that is very limited

[Catalyst38]

panamakira wrote...

Catalyst38 wrote...

panamakira wrote...

But I remember Flemeth saying to Hawke that she couldn't take the medallion herself since she needed to be somewhere else. I'm assuming this is the day after the fight and Carver and Hawke barely had time to pick up mom and sister and then run away from darkspawn. The following morning when the Warden woke up from injuries, I'm assuming is the same morning Hawke is running away with family. Flemeth needed to be there for the Warden and make sure they were good to go to stop the Blight.

I fail to see the continuity problem here.

your wrong Hawke gets his family out after Lotherings destruction or during the warden woke up far before that.

Fair enough. Then maybe Hawke and family stayed in Lothering thinking it might hold and it didn't so they flee.....

Its as i said before 
1. Ostigar happens
2. Warden saved,  Hawke gets lost in the woods(havent i seen that tree before)
3. Warden wakes up and runs off with his guide of the wilds hits lothering and leaves.
4. Hawkes still lost what a loser
5.The warden hits the first plot area, hawke get to lothering and passes the f out.(weeks in the wood seeing the same tree over and over will do that to a guy
6. Wardens doing the plot wherever(Circle, Dailish, Redcliff, Dwarfs) Lothering is under attack by the blight Hawke's Family runs.
7. Hawke meets Flemeth and escapes
8.Warden either finish the Circle Tower or get to it later and confronts Flemeth.

Modifié par Catalyst38, 25 février 2011 - 02:21 .

[Aumata]

tuejmccoy wrote...

for me at least.

I mean both Hawke(if not mage) and the Warden were at Ostagar. While Warden was incapacitated, woke up next morning (or evening, cant tell for sure) and then went to Lorthering from the Korcari Wilds, which are further away from Lothering than Ostagar.
She arrived in Lothering in no hurry, killed some bandits, who misstook her mage robes for the uniform of the local brothel, killed more bandits, bears, spiders, darkspawn, made some traps, some posion, some health potions, intimdated nuns, started a bar fight, recruited Ms. Stabbity and sten a.s.o. And at this point the occupants of Lothering were still uncertain about their options, discusing them in front of the chantry. Noone was in a hurry to leave, some were more concerned about some pests on their fields more than bout the darkspawn. Hell the nuns were still preaching in the chantry.

Meanwhile Hawke was RUNNING since Ostagar, arrived barely in time to grab his/her mother and sister and flee the immidiate darkspawn danger. The darkspawn didnt only had time to flatten Lothering but also to blight-o-form the lands.

TL;DR: The timelines of events in both stories seem to diiffer quiet much

Wasn't the warden out for a few days?

[Catalyst38]

Remember you can go back to lothering at anytime till you do 1 main plot quest.

Modifié par Catalyst38, 25 février 2011 - 02:22 .

[Aumata]

DanteCousland wrote...

You do realise that the warden and alistair couldv'e gotten lifted out by flemeth half way during the battlee.
e.g. Battle starts
Cailan dies
Warden is injured and airlifted out
The rest of the army fights a losing battle and splits up.
Carver would have to navigate unfamiliar territory and would have to encounter darkspawn whilst the warden can quickly traverse trhe wilds not encontering darkspawn due to Morrigans knowledge.

Wrden gets to lothering, does their thing and heads off whilst Carver is still in the wilds. Warden goes off to Denerim/ first quest when carver arrives at lothering.
Warden is still doing first quest when lothering is overrun, the Hawkes barely escape in time.
Due to the mass size of the horde and the little resistance southern fereeldan is transformed into the "Blightlands".

You would be correct on that.  Warden was out for a few days.  It also makes since seeing how Wynne and Uldred escape from Ostagar also.  I would imagine that Carver, and Hawke (non-mages) would regroup and heal up and leave.  The problem is that there is no time scale present till the end.  But yeah you have the right time line of events.

[marcusgs221]

I'm sure the darkspawn didn't leave ostegar ten mins after calins death. It takes time to regroup resupply and move an army. One person is much faster than a hord

[AloraKast]

David Gaider wrote...

BTW: Did Flemeth really had an "appointment" after saving Hawke(s) or did she just tell that to enjoy some Morrigan-free time somewhere nice?

Could be. It might also be awesome, and I'm just not going to tell you.

David (insert middle name) Gaider, you are an evil, EVIL man!

As for the time differential... Let me explain how things generally work in such a vast and vibrant world.  This may clarify a few things:

"It takes you nearly a week to get any thing done because of all the favors you agree to. Example: going out to buy milk unlocks a series of quests in which you save the store owners daughter, get the daughters cat out of a tree, bring the cat a can of catfood and drive away the russian mob so the store owner will give you the cat food.

Then on your way home you realize you forgot the milk."

(posted by Lugaru on Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines forums)

Clearly, before his family could leave Lothering behind, Hawke had to run to the store for some milk.

Modifié par AloraKast, 25 février 2011 - 03:06 .

[MorningBird]

panamakira wrote...

Fair enough. Then maybe Hawke and family stayed in Lothering thinking it might hold and it didn't so they flee.....

Well, from the demo, I get the impression they didn't leave immediately.

From my non-mage play-throughs, Carver and Hawke enlisted in King Cailan's army, and barely managed to flee the battle with their lives.

Some things to note from the demo AND DA:O

- The (majority?) of darkspawn remained at Ostagar sometime after the battle was over, devouring the dead and dragging others away into 'holes in the ground'.  I imagine this made it difficult for members of the army to escape north.  The Warden actually may have gotten to Lothering sooner thanks to Morrigan's navigation and Flemeth's magic, something the Hawke siblings would have been without.

- Grey Warden's can sense the darkspawn due to the taint, but regular scouts are easily ambushed (such as the Human Noble's brother and the scouts you run into during the darkspawn blood and treaty collection missions) somewhat proving that regular human beings are at a disadvantage against the darkspawn.  I imagine Carver and Hawke had to fight a few times, and this likely slowed them down.

- Ash warriors seem to be exceptionally good trackers/navigators.  They were the only noteworthy members of the army that I remember being mentioned by the bandits to make it to Lothering.  Bandit Leader (not exact quote): "A band of Ash Warriors came through earlier.  Moved right out of their way."

- We don't actually know where in the Lothering landscape Hawke's family lives, only that it's a remote location to better hide Bethany's apostate status.  It's possible that their farm is harder to reach and further than the village we see in DAO.

When Hawke and Carver do make it home, we know  that they don't immediately evacuate.

Some things to note from the demo:

- Bethany implies as much. (not exact quote:) "We should have left sooner.  Why didn't we leave sooner?"

- If you read the codex entry on the dead sibling, it states that the Hawke family didn't immediately flee, but packed for the long journey ahead.  Regardless, they did leave before they were fully prepared (hurried by the approaching horde) and barely made it out in time.  This, to me, suggests that they left after the Warden had passed through.

In summary:

I really don't see any continuity errors? XD

[Urazz]

Essentially, it can be said the prologue in DA2 takes place during the time the Warden is in the middle of his/her first treaty mission. So it's after the Warden leaves Lothering and is unable to go back but before he/she is able to confront Flemeth so there is no continuity problem.

Modifié par Urazz, 25 février 2011 - 02:43 .

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

not really a plot hole until someone plays the full game and its not explained. and right now there are feasible explanations anyways

[Baiolit]

Sorry if this has been explained in detail during this thread, (I didn't read the whole thing) but if you are warrior/rogue Hawke did you fight with Carver in Ostagar? I just thought that since Carver was in the army you might be as well, or maybe I just got the whole story messed up. Thanks in advance to anyone who might answer.

[MorningBird]

Baiolit wrote...

Sorry if this has been explained in detail during this thread, (I didn't read the whole thing) but if you are warrior/rogue Hawke did you fight with Carver in Ostagar? I just thought that since Carver was in the army you might be as well, or maybe I just got the whole story messed up. Thanks in advance to anyone who might answer.

Yes, if your Hawke was a warrior/rogue, they were also at Ostagar.  If they were a mage, they stayed on the farmhold. =)

[panamakira]

Catalyst38 wrote...

panamakira wrote...

Catalyst38 wrote...

panamakira wrote...

But I remember Flemeth saying to Hawke that she couldn't take the medallion herself since she needed to be somewhere else. I'm assuming this is the day after the fight and Carver and Hawke barely had time to pick up mom and sister and then run away from darkspawn. The following morning when the Warden woke up from injuries, I'm assuming is the same morning Hawke is running away with family. Flemeth needed to be there for the Warden and make sure they were good to go to stop the Blight.

I fail to see the continuity problem here.

your wrong Hawke gets his family out after Lotherings destruction or during the warden woke up far before that.

Fair enough. Then maybe Hawke and family stayed in Lothering thinking it might hold and it didn't so they flee.....

Its as i said before 
1. Ostigar happens
2. Warden saved,  Hawke gets lost in the woods(havent i seen that tree before)
3. Warden wakes up and runs off with his guide of the wilds hits lothering and leaves.
4. Hawkes still lost what a loser
5.The warden hits the first plot area, hawke get to lothering and passes the f out.(weeks in the wood seeing the same tree over and over will do that to a guy
6. Wardens doing the plot wherever(Circle, Dailish, Redcliff, Dwarfs) Lothering is under attack by the blight Hawke's Family runs.
7. Hawke meets Flemeth and escapes
8.Warden either finish the Circle Tower or get to it later and confronts Flemeth.

lol it is probable he got lost in the woods and took forever in leaving Lothering.....There are a lot of options and neither so far has shown how there's a problem of continuity in the story since they dont really explain~

[Morgora]

David Gaider wrote...
"Running since Ostagar" is not the same as "we ran directly here after the battle".

They (or simply Carver) got there as soon as they could, while evading darkspawn, and arrived well after the Warden (who, at this point in time, would have been completing his/her first major world quest). I suppose we could have Carver and/or the player stop and outline exactly what they've been up to since Ostagar, but I'm not sure who that would be of interest to aside from people who like to call everything that isn't explicitly explained to them a plothole.

Well, then, I suppose I'm one of the few that likes explicit explanations. Storylines drive my enjoyment of RPG's. If I perceive a plothole, then I will try to fill in the blanks to make the story work for me. If I can't make it work, then I'm left feeling disconnected.

Modifié par Morgora, 25 février 2011 - 04:59 .

[White_Buffalo94]

It could easily go like this:

1) Warden was in fact, just in time in arriving, and leaving, Lothering.

2) Fereldans are quite dumb as guards from Loghains army and the refugees just sit on their asses basically complaining about Chasind Wilders taking their food. I think it is safe to say they underestimated the speed of the horde.

3) Carver (Maybe Hawke?) was at Ostagar and most likely left before the Warden, but Flemeth gave them something that would allow them to get past the 'spawn, so the Warden may have surpassed Carver.





Anyway, we don't know how long it takes Blighted lands to form, I'd guess the pestilence from the 'spawn kills the land very rapidly.

HOWEVER, that appointment Flemeth tells the group about that she needs to keep, if I am correct in assuming that appointment has something to do with the Warden, then idk how that ties in, unless it is to prepare for the ritual of possessing Morrigan

[Sprocker117]

I think you technically spend a day in Lothering. For the main quests, I can see that some of them would take a day too, like the Mage's Tower & Redcliffe village.