245 réponses à ce sujet

[Maconbar]

I guess it's a plot hole in so much as in DA:O I never had any sense of the passage of time.

[Clonedzero]

hawke / carver were on the front lines, not in some tower. plus they didn't get the luxury of being plucked from the battlefield by flemeth and given a nice safe nights sleep.



there are plenty of reasons why it'd take carver / hawke much longer to get back to lothering than the warden. plus flemeth and morrigan did stuff (i remember them mentioning it) to keep darkspawn from ambushing them.



travel is alot slower when you're sneaking through heavily darkspawn infested forests without any help from the WITCH OF THE WILDS.

[-Freakshow]

What I want to know is why does Flemeth look so different? Her hair, her physique, etc...

[nightcobra]

-Freakshow wrote...

What I want to know is why does Flemeth look so different? Her hair, her physique, etc...

she's a shapeshifter, her original form may not be even of a human.

[biostarfan]

JensenBakura wrote...

I think things get easier if you assume Carver was part of Loghain's forces.

Day 1: Duncan and Warden arrive at Ostagar, Carver is already there in the main camp.
Night 1: The Battle of Ostagar. Carver and the rest of Loghain's forces are told the king has died due to treachery, and they must withdraw if they are to survive the trap. Flemeth rescues the warden.

Day 2: The warden wakes, and sets off with Morrigan and Alistair at high speed, due to Morrigan's knowledge of the land and the party's ability to detect Darkspawn. Carver races home, and gathers his family and begins trying to convince them to gather everything and leave. This is made difficult by your mothers "unwillingness to leave everything your father and I built behind", and the confused reports of what happened at ostagar.

has regrouped and swarms over Lothering and along the roads. The Hawkes, travelling off-road and burdened by baggage, are overtaken, but passed by, as the faster moving horde sticks to the roads. Soon, however, they encounter darkspawn and finally give up their belongings and flee for their lives. Too late, they realise that the horde has begun fanning out again, and they are now cut off. Flemeth decides to take to the skies and ensure that the Warden has made it out of harms way, and happens to see the Hawke's defeat an Ogre.

You know the rest.

great post, but keep in mind that the warden can no longer return to lothering after completing 3 main quests... so the warden can secure 3 allies, or wake arl Damon and secure 2 allies.

[nightcobra]

biostarfan wrote...

JensenBakura wrote...

I think things get easier if you assume Carver was part of Loghain's forces.

Day 1: Duncan and Warden arrive at Ostagar, Carver is already there in the main camp.
Night 1: The Battle of Ostagar. Carver and the rest of Loghain's forces are told the king has died due to treachery, and they must withdraw if they are to survive the trap. Flemeth rescues the warden.

Day 2: The warden wakes, and sets off with Morrigan and Alistair at high speed, due to Morrigan's knowledge of the land and the party's ability to detect Darkspawn. Carver races home, and gathers his family and begins trying to convince them to gather everything and leave. This is made difficult by your mothers "unwillingness to leave everything your father and I built behind", and the confused reports of what happened at ostagar.

has regrouped and swarms over Lothering and along the roads. The Hawkes, travelling off-road and burdened by baggage, are overtaken, but passed by, as the faster moving horde sticks to the roads. Soon, however, they encounter darkspawn and finally give up their belongings and flee for their lives. Too late, they realise that the horde has begun fanning out again, and they are now cut off. Flemeth decides to take to the skies and ensure that the Warden has made it out of harms way, and happens to see the Hawke's defeat an Ogre.

You know the rest.

great post, but keep in mind that the warden can no longer return to lothering after completing 3 main quests... so the warden can secure 3 allies, or wake arl Damon and secure 2 allies.

actually, it's just 1 main quest.

after one of those, lothering bites the dust.


and like i said earlier, carver (and hawke if you're a warrior/rogue) only arrived to lothering 1 month after ostagar, exausted from the battle.
it's in the demo's codex.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 24 février 2011 - 02:47 .

[biostarfan]

my bad, I was confusing the destruction of lothering with the availability of one of the tomes in the bricilian forest... lol.

[LexXxich]

Don't Wynne, when doing Circle of Magi quest (even if you go there first), mentions that a year have passed since Ostagar? Or was it a year since Mage Origin story, meaning Ostagar happened less than a year ago?

[tuejmccoy]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

biostarfan wrote...

JensenBakura wrote...

I think things get easier if you assume Carver was part of Loghain's forces.

Day 1: Duncan and Warden arrive at Ostagar, Carver is already there in the main camp.
Night 1: The Battle of Ostagar. Carver and the rest of Loghain's forces are told the king has died due to treachery, and they must withdraw if they are to survive the trap. Flemeth rescues the warden.

Day 2: The warden wakes, and sets off with Morrigan and Alistair at high speed, due to Morrigan's knowledge of the land and the party's ability to detect Darkspawn. Carver races home, and gathers his family and begins trying to convince them to gather everything and leave. This is made difficult by your mothers "unwillingness to leave everything your father and I built behind", and the confused reports of what happened at ostagar.

has regrouped and swarms over Lothering and along the roads. The Hawkes, travelling off-road and burdened by baggage, are overtaken, but passed by, as the faster moving horde sticks to the roads. Soon, however, they encounter darkspawn and finally give up their belongings and flee for their lives. Too late, they realise that the horde has begun fanning out again, and they are now cut off. Flemeth decides to take to the skies and ensure that the Warden has made it out of harms way, and happens to see the Hawke's defeat an Ogre.

You know the rest.

great post, but keep in mind that the warden can no longer return to lothering after completing 3 main quests... so the warden can secure 3 allies, or wake arl Damon and secure 2 allies.

actually, it's just 1 main quest.

after one of those, lothering bites the dust.


and like i said earlier, carver (and hawke if you're a warrior/rogue) only arrived to lothering 1 month after ostagar, exausted from the battle.
it's in the demo's codex.

i played the demo again, and i couldnt find the entry, where anything about a month is stated. But one month is kinda long, wtf were the darkspawn doing all this time? One previous poster stated, that Carver (and Hawke) returned 1 month after they joined the kings army. That would mean they joined the king, 29 days later Warden arrives, sh*t hits the fan (sh*t tends to do this everywhere the Warde arrives). And on the 30th day Hawke returns home.  

.....or something

[nightcobra]

tuejmccoy wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

biostarfan wrote...

JensenBakura wrote...

I think things get easier if you assume Carver was part of Loghain's forces.

Day 1: Duncan and Warden arrive at Ostagar, Carver is already there in the main camp.
Night 1: The Battle of Ostagar. Carver and the rest of Loghain's forces are told the king has died due to treachery, and they must withdraw if they are to survive the trap. Flemeth rescues the warden.

Day 2: The warden wakes, and sets off with Morrigan and Alistair at high speed, due to Morrigan's knowledge of the land and the party's ability to detect Darkspawn. Carver races home, and gathers his family and begins trying to convince them to gather everything and leave. This is made difficult by your mothers "unwillingness to leave everything your father and I built behind", and the confused reports of what happened at ostagar.

has regrouped and swarms over Lothering and along the roads. The Hawkes, travelling off-road and burdened by baggage, are overtaken, but passed by, as the faster moving horde sticks to the roads. Soon, however, they encounter darkspawn and finally give up their belongings and flee for their lives. Too late, they realise that the horde has begun fanning out again, and they are now cut off. Flemeth decides to take to the skies and ensure that the Warden has made it out of harms way, and happens to see the Hawke's defeat an Ogre.

You know the rest.

great post, but keep in mind that the warden can no longer return to lothering after completing 3 main quests... so the warden can secure 3 allies, or wake arl Damon and secure 2 allies.

actually, it's just 1 main quest.

after one of those, lothering bites the dust.


and like i said earlier, carver (and hawke if you're a warrior/rogue) only arrived to lothering 1 month after ostagar, exausted from the battle.
it's in the demo's codex.

i played the demo again, and i couldnt find the entry, where anything about a month is stated. But one month is kinda long, wtf were the darkspawn doing all this time? One previous poster stated, that Carver (and Hawke) returned 1 month after they joined the kings army. That would mean they joined the king, 29 days later Warden arrives, sh*t hits the fan (sh*t tends to do this everywhere the Warde arrives). And on the 30th day Hawke returns home.  

.....or something

you get the entry after carver dies if you played warrior/rogue

go to journal, the go to the right most category and you should find his entry.

[jacobdg]

Carver says "WE" have been running since Ostagar. His whole family was at Ostagar, not just Hawke.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Hawke was a coward and so he sprinted off to Kirkwall. On the way, The Maker blessed him and he gained the power to kill darkspawn and ogres. Refugee - to divine warrior in less than a day...

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 24 février 2011 - 03:19 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

jacobdg wrote...
Carver says "WE" have been running since Ostagar. His whole family was at Ostagar, not just Hawke.

No.  The "we" refers to Carver and the PCHawke.  When you play a mage Carver's "we" becomes "I".

[nightcobra]

jacobdg wrote...

Carver says "WE" have been running since Ostagar. His whole family was at Ostagar, not just Hawke.

again....


only carver was at ostagar if you're a mage

hawke and carver were at ostagar if you're a warrior/rogue.

[VeoLu]

jacobdg wrote...

Carver says "WE" have been running since Ostagar. His whole family was at Ostagar, not just Hawke.

If you are a mage, he says I have been running since Ostagar. Couple this with him saying "You didn't see Ostagar."

The Journal entry states otherwise as well.

[jacobdg]

I never play mages, so oops.

[88mphSlayer]

i guess we'll find out when we play the actual game, maybe they stuck around lothering to fight the darkspawn there and then ran?

[Jarek_Cousland]

For the moment we have no idea what went on prior to the family fleeing save for Carver (And Hawke if warrior or rogue) being at Ostegar. Details are sparse right now and theirs plenty of plausible solutions to make. Also we dont know exactly when Lothering gets raised per say because its gone after our first objective is complete. But it could've been happening prior or during whatever we were doing at that time.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

jacobdg wrote...
Carver says "WE" have been running since Ostagar. His whole family was at Ostagar, not just Hawke.

No.  The "we" refers to Carver and the PCHawke.  When you play a mage Carver's "we" becomes "I".

Further evidence that the dimwitted brother is the reason why you're so late in fleeing from Lothering. I loved how Bethany basically blamed him for that. Poor boy. If the demo was any indicator, he's probably spent his whole life with feelings of inadequacy. No wonder he's a "rival".

[Zeus_Deus]

silver-crescent wrote...

Really? That's pretty stupid. I mean if he is a mage he needs to stay and take care of his mother/sister, but if he is a rogue/warrior they don't need him anymore?

Not really.

Only Circle mages were at Ostagar because non-Circle mages/Apostates would've been hunted by the Chantry/Templars.

Mage Hawke is an Apostate, so he's not going to go to Ostagar and reveal himself by using his magic powers.

Modifié par Zeus_Deus, 24 février 2011 - 03:44 .

[tuejmccoy]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

tuejmccoy wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

biostarfan wrote...

JensenBakura wrote...

I think things get easier if you assume Carver was part of Loghain's forces.

Day 1: Duncan and Warden arrive at Ostagar, Carver is already there in the main camp.
Night 1: The Battle of Ostagar. Carver and the rest of Loghain's forces are told the king has died due to treachery, and they must withdraw if they are to survive the trap. Flemeth rescues the warden.

Day 2: The warden wakes, and sets off with Morrigan and Alistair at high speed, due to Morrigan's knowledge of the land and the party's ability to detect Darkspawn. Carver races home, and gathers his family and begins trying to convince them to gather everything and leave. This is made difficult by your mothers "unwillingness to leave everything your father and I built behind", and the confused reports of what happened at ostagar.

has regrouped and swarms over Lothering and along the roads. The Hawkes, travelling off-road and burdened by baggage, are overtaken, but passed by, as the faster moving horde sticks to the roads. Soon, however, they encounter darkspawn and finally give up their belongings and flee for their lives. Too late, they realise that the horde has begun fanning out again, and they are now cut off. Flemeth decides to take to the skies and ensure that the Warden has made it out of harms way, and happens to see the Hawke's defeat an Ogre.

You know the rest.

great post, but keep in mind that the warden can no longer return to lothering after completing 3 main quests... so the warden can secure 3 allies, or wake arl Damon and secure 2 allies.

actually, it's just 1 main quest.

after one of those, lothering bites the dust.


and like i said earlier, carver (and hawke if you're a warrior/rogue) only arrived to lothering 1 month after ostagar, exausted from the battle.
it's in the demo's codex.

i played the demo again, and i couldnt find the entry, where anything about a month is stated. But one month is kinda long, wtf were the darkspawn doing all this time? One previous poster stated, that Carver (and Hawke) returned 1 month after they joined the kings army. That would mean they joined the king, 29 days later Warden arrives, sh*t hits the fan (sh*t tends to do this everywhere the Warde arrives). And on the 30th day Hawke returns home.  

.....or something

you get the entry after carver dies if you played warrior/rogue

go to journal, the go to the right most category and you should find his entry.

OK, got it. The info appears if u re playing mage, not the other way around. It just states, that Carver comes back 1 month after he joined kings army. It doesnt say anything about how long it took him to travel between Ostagar, after its fall, and Lothering.

[Addai]

I have no trouble with the timing. People are assuming the Warden wakes up within 24 hours, while I never perceived that to be the case. Your injuries were severe, as Morrigan tells you. You could have been out for days. In Lothering, there have already been survivors of Ostagar come through by the time you get there. Bethany asks "why did we wait so long?" That's a good question, but there could be any number of reasons people with land and emotional investment in a place don't evacuate it until the last possible moment.  They said that the templars had abandoned Lothering.  That wasn't the case when the Warden is there, but Ser Bryant ("Hawke, I am your father") tells you they are preparing to do so.  I think the timing works out just fine.

What stretches my belief is that both Carver and Aveline, and warrior Hawke as well, were all survivors, apparently unscathed, and yet not part of Loghain's army (unless the Hawkes were and deserted on the way home). But those are the sorts of questions where you have to suspend disbelief. As Flemeth says, is it fate or chance- neither, it's the Maker's will.

Flemeth's appointment I take to be the Warden coming to confront her. Toolset indicates Flemeth expected you back (something about "she's impressed that Morrigan actually got someone to do it"). Whether she and Morrigan had that planned or it was foresight on Flemeth's part, don't think we can say.

Modifié par Addai67, 24 février 2011 - 04:06 .

[Maconbar]

I thought that the sense of time passing was terrible in DA:O.

[David Gaider]

tuejmccoy wrote...

for me at least.

I mean both Hawke(if not mage) and the Warden were at Ostagar. While Warden was incapacitated, woke up next morning (or evening, cant tell for sure) and then went to Lorthering from the Korcari Wilds, which are further away from Lothering than Ostagar.
She arrived in Lothering in no hurry, killed some bandits, who misstook her mage robes for the uniform of the local brothel, killed more bandits, bears, spiders, darkspawn, made some traps, some posion, some health potions, intimdated nuns, started a bar fight, recruited Ms. Stabbity and sten a.s.o. And at this point the occupants of Lothering were still uncertain about their options, discusing them in front of the chantry. Noone was in a hurry to leave, some were more concerned about some pests on their fields more than bout the darkspawn. Hell the nuns were still preaching in the chantry.

Meanwhile Hawke was RUNNING since Ostagar, arrived barely in time to grab his/her mother and sister and flee the immidiate darkspawn danger. The darkspawn didnt only had time to flatten Lothering but also to blight-o-form the lands.

TL;DR: The timelines of events in both stories seem to diiffer quiet much

"Running since Ostagar" is not the same as "we ran directly here after the battle".

They (or simply Carver) got there as soon as they could, while evading darkspawn, and arrived well after the Warden (who, at this point in time, would have been completing his/her first major world quest). I suppose we could have Carver and/or the player stop and outline exactly what they've been up to since Ostagar, but I'm not sure who that would be of interest to aside from people who like to call everything that isn't explicitly explained to them a plothole.

[Blastaz]

DarthCaine wrote...

I choose to believe that Hawke and Carver spent some time hiding from the darkspawn and avoiding them and Hawke arrived at the same the Warden did. I also choose to believe the darkspawn attacked right after the Warden left

This. You didn't run straight back from Ostagar, you spent some time hiding in the woods, picking your way through darkspawn patrols etc... Meanwhile the Warden was dragged out of the battle by Flemeth and got their just before you, spends a day or so in town then heads out never to return. as the place burns behind him.

Plus I think a bit of the backstory has been cut for the demo. In the video at the end they show you in more pesant/simple clothes fleeing from Lothering itself. I guess the very begining of the game may be a tiny bit slower than the demo.