215 réponses à ce sujet

[Hathur]

I strongly disagree... DAO was made absurdly easy on Nightmare because you could craft infinite healing salves and they were on a 6 second cooldown only.... you could practically spam them over and over and never die.



First thing I did was mod healing salves in DAO to be on a 1 minute cooldown... so the 20-30 seconds in DA2 is still lightweight in my books, but nonetheless preferred over the old 6 second cooldown.

[Sabariel]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

OMGOMG I can't constantly cast 5s cooldown healing spells and potions to win, somebody call the whambulance.

Seriously? Are we at that point already? All right then...

[TwistedComplex]

maselphie wrote...

Great, we agree that neither game has correct balance. Neither should be faster or slower than each other.

That depends. Do you enjoy fighting or managing buffs more?

[Loc'n'lol]

maselphie wrote...

Great, we agree that neither game has correct balance. Neither should be faster or slower than each other.

Actually, no. The combat has been sped up but the lethality has gone down. Your party requires less healing than in DAO, so it's ok if cooldowns are longer.

[TwistedComplex]

Koiruoho wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

maselphie wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

Either the game is too easy or it's not

Whether you can play the game just fine or not is the game's difficulty, and that will be different from person to person. Thus, your mixed reactions.

Balance isn't necessarily how easy the game is to play, it's about frustration, incontrolability, unexpectedness, etc. The potions and heal spells take too long to recharge. The battle system was sped up, but the buff system was slowed down. That is a flaw, regardless of whether I broke a sweat fighting the ogre or not.

Yeah, the buffs were slowed and the combat was sped up. That's exactly how Bioware made the Dragon Age combat visceral but kept the stratigic depth

In Origins, the combat was slow but the buffs were fast. Which, in my opinion, was it's biggest flaw, you spent the entire time managing buffs and heals, and less time fighting. Look me in the eye and tell me you didn't spend every difficult fight playing Wynne or another healer in the first game.

Nah I just made the AI do that stuff for me so I could watch my melee fighters autoattack

I see what you did there

[Felfenix]

Managing tight or limited resources has always been what's defined skill in an RPG. Faster combat means more things happening, more variables to consider, etc. This adds depth to the combat. Slower healing and limited buffs mean you have to pick and choose how and when to use those resources, and not squander them. This also adds depth. If you find that you "need" them more than you can afford, it means there's a flaw in your gameplay. Whereas in Origins, you didn't have to think, consider, or adjust at all... You just needed to hit the potion button.

[Sabariel]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

maselphie wrote...

Great, we agree that neither game has correct balance. Neither should be faster or slower than each other.

Actually, no. The combat has been sped up but the lethality has gone down. Your party requires less healing than in DAO, so it's ok if cooldowns are longer.

The lethality has gone down? Tell that to the chunks of Aveline the Ogre is currently digesting...

[Koiruoho]

Hathur wrote...

I strongly disagree... DAO was made absurdly easy on Nightmare because you could craft infinite healing salves and they were on a 6 second cooldown only.... you could practically spam them over and over and never die.

First thing I did was mod healing salves in DAO to be on a 1 minute cooldown... so the 20-30 seconds in DA2 is still lightweight in my books, but nonetheless preferred over the old 6 second cooldown.

Agreed. Also the melee classes mostly didn't  have any worthwhile CC compared to how you could absolutely destroy everything with a mage so I was kinda bummed about playing nightmare with the fact that the only tactics shift it made me do was micromanage poultice use and controlling my mages for most of the time.

Modifié par Koiruoho, 24 février 2011 - 01:01 .

[TwistedComplex]

Sabariel wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

maselphie wrote...

Great, we agree that neither game has correct balance. Neither should be faster or slower than each other.

Actually, no. The combat has been sped up but the lethality has gone down. Your party requires less healing than in DAO, so it's ok if cooldowns are longer.

The lethality has gone down? Tell that to the chunks of Aveline the Ogre is currently digesting...

No the enemies do hit for a lot less, but, as a balancing measure, heal and potion cool down was slowed

[Sabariel]

Felfenix wrote...

Managing tight or limited resources has always been what's defined skill in an RPG. Faster combat means more things happening, more variables to consider, etc. This adds depth to the combat. Slower healing and limited buffs mean you have to pick and choose how and when to use those resources, and not squander them. This also adds depth. If you find that you "need" them more than you can afford, it means there's a flaw in your gameplay. Whereas in Origins, you didn't have to think, consider, or adjust at all... You just needed to hit the potion button.

But not every gamer is about the combat and its depth. I'm more of a "story gamer" and I'd like to live to see BioWare's lovely stories.

[Koiruoho]

[ Reply is not edit ]

Modifié par Koiruoho, 24 février 2011 - 12:59 .

[kyles3]

Lot of e-peen swinging going in this thread. Surprised no one's been called a "console kiddie" yet.

[maselphie]

TwistedComplex wrote...

That depends. Do you enjoy fighting or managing buffs more?

Buffs are fighting. A heal spell is as much gameplay as a fireball spell.

[Sabariel]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

maselphie wrote...

Great, we agree that neither game has correct balance. Neither should be faster or slower than each other.

Actually, no. The combat has been sped up but the lethality has gone down. Your party requires less healing than in DAO, so it's ok if cooldowns are longer.

The lethality has gone down? Tell that to the chunks of Aveline the Ogre is currently digesting...

No the enemies do hit for a lot less, but, as a balancing measure, heal and potion cool down was slowed

All my companions did was die, regardless of the enemies hitting for a lot less.

kyles3 wrote...

Lot of e-peen swinging going in this thread. Surprised no one's been called a "console kiddie" yet.

Agh! No! Dude, don't even bring that up in passing! Please!

Modifié par Sabariel, 24 février 2011 - 12:59 .

[WidowMaker9394]

kyles3 wrote...

Lot of e-peen swinging going in this thread. Surprised no one's been called a "console kiddie" yet.

Obvious console peasant is obvious. 

[Felfenix]

Sabariel wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Managing tight or limited resources has always been what's defined skill in an RPG. Faster combat means more things happening, more variables to consider, etc. This adds depth to the combat. Slower healing and limited buffs mean you have to pick and choose how and when to use those resources, and not squander them. This also adds depth. If you find that you "need" them more than you can afford, it means there's a flaw in your gameplay. Whereas in Origins, you didn't have to think, consider, or adjust at all... You just needed to hit the potion button.

But not every gamer is about the combat and its depth. I'm more of a "story gamer" and I'd like to live to see BioWare's lovely stories.

If you just want to mindlessly button mash and ignore any actual gameplay, there's a casual setting, which they say anybody should be able to get through even just controlling only one character and doing so suboptimally with no RPG knowledge. Sounds pretty failproof.

[maselphie]

elektrego wrote...

Since a game like that is all about options, they should not force you to play their "intended" strategy. If someone wants to beat the game with the help of healing powers, they should be able to.

This.

[Sabariel]

elektrego wrote...

Since a game like that is all about options, they should not force you to play their "intended" strategy. If someone wants to beat the game with the help of healing powers, they should be able to.
Personally, i adapted rather quickly and i manage to have my whole pary survive easily, but they still should not take away the option to play it differently. I am all for a cooldown for potions and healing powers, but right now they are definitly too long, imo.

Ugh. Thank-you. Perhaps I shouldn't have asked if the long cooldown wasn't in the game. Instead I should have asked if it was a toggle or if the cooldown decreased/increased with difficulty level.

Felfenix wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Managing
tight or limited resources has always been what's defined skill in an
RPG. Faster combat means more things happening, more variables to
consider, etc. This adds depth to the combat. Slower healing and limited
buffs mean you have to pick and choose how and when to use those
resources, and not squander them. This also adds depth. If you find that
you "need" them more than you can afford, it means there's a flaw in
your gameplay. Whereas in Origins, you didn't have to think, consider,
or adjust at all... You just needed to hit the potion button.

But
not every gamer is about the combat and its depth. I'm more of a "story
gamer" and I'd like to live to see BioWare's lovely stories.

If
you just want to mindlessly button mash and ignore any actual gameplay,
there's a casual setting, which they say anybody should be able to get
through even just controlling only one character and doing so
suboptimally with no RPG knowledge. Sounds pretty failproof.

Oh, I don't like mindlessly button mashing during combat. It makes my thumbs hurt. I just like to be able to heal when my characters are dying despite all the buffs/defensive spells/aggro de-aggro they have going

Modifié par Sabariel, 24 février 2011 - 01:07 .

[Felfenix]

maselphie wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

That depends. Do you enjoy fighting or managing buffs more?

Buffs are fighting. A heal spell is as much gameplay as a fireball spell.

Limited resources. Learn to manage them. RPG101. What's the point of the health or mana bars if you can just fill them up anytime you want as much as you want?

maselphie wrote...

elektrego wrote...

Since a
game like that is all about options, they should not force you to play
their "intended" strategy. If someone wants to beat the game with the
help of healing powers, they should be able to.

This.

You do have healing and support powers. You just can't mindlessly button mash and spam heal your way to victory... well, maybe on casual. Use them at the right times, and adjust with their limitations in mind. This is like saying you should be able to win with any intended strategy, like putting all your warrior's stats into Magic, never pausing, and rolling your face on the keyboard.

Modifié par Felfenix, 24 février 2011 - 01:08 .

[Fredericol]

Played the mage in Origins?

When I was playing my rogue I rarely had time for the mage (needed to get the rogue behind my chars) its all about good tactics programming, and Wynne was born for that, she could autoheal anything, and it was a rare fight where I had to step in, usually because I forgot to feed her more lyrium pots

[TwistedComplex]

Sabariel wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Managing tight or limited resources has always been what's defined skill in an RPG. Faster combat means more things happening, more variables to consider, etc. This adds depth to the combat. Slower healing and limited buffs mean you have to pick and choose how and when to use those resources, and not squander them. This also adds depth. If you find that you "need" them more than you can afford, it means there's a flaw in your gameplay. Whereas in Origins, you didn't have to think, consider, or adjust at all... You just needed to hit the potion button.

But not every gamer is about the combat and its depth. I'm more of a "story gamer" and I'd like to live to see BioWare's lovely stories.

Then play on easy

[Fidget6]

Sabariel wrote...

Please, please, please tell me this won't be present in the actual game... or will at least be a toggle. Because with the much more frenetic combat having a health potion cooldown that long is... counterproductive to say the least

That bothered me too. For more "casual" (sucky) RPG gamers like myself, I needs my potions! D:

[Koiruoho]

elektrego wrote...

Since a game like that is all about options, they should not force you to play their "intended" strategy. If someone wants to beat the game with the help of healing powers, they should be able to.
Personally, i adapted rather quickly and i manage to have my whole pary survive easily, but they still should not take away the option to play it differently. I am all for a cooldown for potions and healing powers, but right now they are definitly too long, imo.

Uh, just because they are on a long cooldown doesn't mean that healing powers are of no use to you. To me that seems quite similar to saying that I wanted to beat DAO only spamming cone of cold and stone fist so they should remove cooldowns from them altogether.

[Fidget6]

TwistedComplex wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Managing tight or limited resources has always been what's defined skill in an RPG. Faster combat means more things happening, more variables to consider, etc. This adds depth to the combat. Slower healing and limited buffs mean you have to pick and choose how and when to use those resources, and not squander them. This also adds depth. If you find that you "need" them more than you can afford, it means there's a flaw in your gameplay. Whereas in Origins, you didn't have to think, consider, or adjust at all... You just needed to hit the potion button.

But not every gamer is about the combat and its depth. I'm more of a "story gamer" and I'd like to live to see BioWare's lovely stories.

Then play on easy

Tis what I do. I'm also more of a "story gamer."