215 réponses à ce sujet

[mintcar]

O - my - God! There are actually people complaining about this? It's the best thing ever! I would be hesitant to even play the game if healing was handled like in the first game. You could win any fight if you had just stopped by the elf town and maxed out potions before. Well, you also had to have saintly patience. It made the game boring. Why would you expect unlimited healing? Did it really seem right to you that a major part of Dragon Age: Origin's gameplay was made up of drinking potions, sometimes dozens during a single fight on the higher difficulties? Why can't you see that this is the best design decision, the only decision, they could have made?

[Xewaka]

mintcar wrote...
O - my - God! There are actually people complaining about this? It's the best thing ever! I would be hesitant to even play the game if healing was handled like in the first game. You could win any fight if you had just stopped by the elf town and maxed out potions before. Well, you also had to have saintly patience. It made the game boring. Why would you expect unlimited healing? Did it really seem right to you that a major part of Dragon Age: Origin's gameplay was made up of drinking potions, sometimes dozens during a single fight on the higher difficulties? Why can't you see that this is the best design decision, the only decision, they could have made?

The italized part is answered by the bolded part.

[Sabariel]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Please, please, please tell me this won't be present in the actual game... or will at least be a toggle. Because with the much more frenetic combat having a health potion cooldown that long is... counterproductive to say the least

Edit: Forget the part asking about it not being in the game. I'll ask this instead: Is it a toggle? Or does it increase/decrease with difficulty? Or is it set?

You are not meant to spam potions. Game looks easymode enough as is. TIme to learn to play.

I don't want to spam potions. I want to be able to heal in a timely fashion

[Loc'n'lol]

Sabariel wrote...
I don't want to spam potions. I want to be able to heal in a timely fashion

One potion, one healing spell and then maybe another potion in the same fight on the same character should be all you'll ever need, really.

[Sabariel]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

Sabariel wrote...
I don't want to spam potions. I want to be able to heal in a timely fashion

One potion, one healing spell and then maybe another potion in the same fight on the same character should be all you'll ever need, really.

So I've been told, several times, in varying degrees of aggressiveness. However, it didn't work out that way for me... and others, I see.

[GunClubGirl]

I have come to realize, and accept, that I will be required to have 2 mages who can heal in my party at all times to get through the game. Hopefully this will make the cooldowns less annoying and less debilitating.

[Melduran]

Johnny20 wrote...

I don't mind the cooldown, just the length.

Is this a riddle?

[GunClubGirl]

Felfenix wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Managing tight or limited resources has always been what's defined skill in an RPG. Faster combat means more things happening, more variables to consider, etc. This adds depth to the combat. Slower healing and limited buffs mean you have to pick and choose how and when to use those resources, and not squander them. This also adds depth. If you find that you "need" them more than you can afford, it means there's a flaw in your gameplay. Whereas in Origins, you didn't have to think, consider, or adjust at all... You just needed to hit the potion button.

But not every gamer is about the combat and its depth. I'm more of a "story gamer" and I'd like to live to see BioWare's lovely stories.

If you just want to mindlessly button mash and ignore any actual gameplay, there's a casual setting, which they say anybody should be able to get through even just controlling only one character and doing so suboptimally with no RPG knowledge. Sounds pretty failproof.

By the same token there is a nightmare difficulty for people who want the battles to be extremely challenging... and why not go ahead and have a long cooldown timer on THOSE difficulties.

I had no trouble surviving the demo - the AI characters perished but I had no problem surviving and finishing the enemies off. But on these games the more customization, the better. If people are paying $60 for a game why shouldn't they be able to play it however they want? Frankly, I'm not excited about the concept that I will be forced to have 2 mages in my party at all times instead of having the option for an alternative, but it looks like it will be necessary. Instead of telling people to play on casual, why don't you just play on nightmare? I've also noticed that some people don't mind dying and having to repeat battles over and over but I find that boring and tedious. I want to survive the first time through - maybe 2 times on super hard bosses. Healing is just as much part of strategy as attacks, and is a perfectly legitimate action during a battle.

[Sabariel]

Melduran wrote...

Johnny20 wrote...

I don't mind the cooldown, just the length.

Is this a riddle?

It shouldn't be

[TeamLexana]

Yeah, it's pretty long. If the heal spell cooldown wasn't as long it wouldn't be so bad but then again if the potion cooldown wasn't long then the heal spell cooldown wouldn't be bad, lol. The spell's cooldown is so bad that's it's not even worth training it in my opinion.

If everything goes perfectly to plan and there's no weird mess ups where Hawke goes "no, I can't attack that. nope, nada. leave me alone. I'm on a coffee break, ****** off." ten times in a row, then u really don't need any health potions or heal spells but since things don't always go perfectly to plan, u need a wee bit of back up healing. 

Maybe at least, different strength potions with seperate cooldowns? Yeah? I could see that be in the full game, wouldn't be as bad then. I know it'd finally stop me from just carrying one stack of the strongest potion I can make and dumping the rest off to the shops for gold, lol.

[Sabariel]

TeamLexana wrote...

Yeah, it's pretty long. If the heal spell cooldown wasn't as long it wouldn't be so bad but then again if the potion cooldown wasn't long then the heal spell cooldown wouldn't be bad, lol. The spell's cooldown is so bad that's it's not even worth training it in my opinion.

If everything goes perfectly to plan and there's no weird mess ups where Hawke goes "no, I can't attack that. nope, nada. leave me alone. I'm on a coffee break, ****** off." ten times in a row, then u really don't need any health potions or heal spells but since things don't always go perfectly to plan, u need a wee bit of back up healing. 

Maybe at least, different strength potions with seperate cooldowns? Yeah? I could see that be in the full game, wouldn't be as bad then. I know it'd finally stop me from just carrying one stack of the strongest potion I can make and dumping the rest off to the shops for gold, lol.

Ah, now that's something to ponder. Perhaps if the heal cooldown wasn't so long the potion cooldown wouldn't be such a pain in the arse...

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I guess I'll have to play on easy in DA II. This cooldown is absolutely absurd. I can't imagine that it was done like this on purpose.

[mione]

There's a cooldown? >.< I thought I just kept running out of potions yeah then 30 sec is way too long

[Sabariel]

DAO cooldown times:



Potions (all strengths): 0.5s

Heal: 5s

Group Heal: 20s

Revive: 120s

Lifeward: 20s



So the cooldown times have gone up a considerable amount. I'm still hoping for at least a middle ground in the actual game.

[0rz0]

I think it's a good idea. If you wanna have a pure damage dealer with no defensive stats you will need to take care of them, not just rush and obliterate everything before they touch you. As far as I know healing potions/spells are there to help during unexpected events that put you in a pinch, to give you some chance to change your approach on the fly instead of reloading. That and keeping the tank alive (and I think a tank doesn't need so much healing anyway).

[Orchid-Haze]

I think it is slightly to long a cool down, especially in a group of 3+ people.

People seem to be saying its too easy as it is, but they are only going from their own point of view. Not everyone is really good at tactical games and that does not mean they shouldnt be playing them.

It is wrong to ask to keep the cooldown high just because some find the game easy as it is. A middle ground is needed or make cooldowns high on harder levels. ie hard/nightmare.

My problem is not only the cool down, but the AI tactics. DA:O was terrible at tactic healing and I had to give my mage a few heals as Wynn occasional wouldnt do it!

Modifié par Orchid-Haze, 25 février 2011 - 10:43 .

[Tom_Valencia]

GunClubGirl wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Managing tight or limited resources has always been what's defined skill in an RPG. Faster combat means more things happening, more variables to consider, etc. This adds depth to the combat. Slower healing and limited buffs mean you have to pick and choose how and when to use those resources, and not squander them. This also adds depth. If you find that you "need" them more than you can afford, it means there's a flaw in your gameplay. Whereas in Origins, you didn't have to think, consider, or adjust at all... You just needed to hit the potion button.

But not every gamer is about the combat and its depth. I'm more of a "story gamer" and I'd like to live to see BioWare's lovely stories.

If you just want to mindlessly button mash and ignore any actual gameplay, there's a casual setting, which they say anybody should be able to get through even just controlling only one character and doing so suboptimally with no RPG knowledge. Sounds pretty failproof.

By the same token there is a nightmare difficulty for people who want the battles to be extremely challenging... and why not go ahead and have a long cooldown timer on THOSE difficulties.

I had no trouble surviving the demo - the AI characters perished but I had no problem surviving and finishing the enemies off. But on these games the more customization, the better. If people are paying $60 for a game why shouldn't they be able to play it however they want? Frankly, I'm not excited about the concept that I will be forced to have 2 mages in my party at all times instead of having the option for an alternative, but it looks like it will be necessary. Instead of telling people to play on casual, why don't you just play on nightmare? I've also noticed that some people don't mind dying and having to repeat battles over and over but I find that boring and tedious. I want to survive the first time through - maybe 2 times on super hard bosses. Healing is just as much part of strategy as attacks, and is a perfectly legitimate action during a battle.

This!
Make the game hard on hard, and let peeps enjoy the easy ride on casual and normal. scrap the cooldown already!

[Exzander1]

Where IS the cooldown?



I don't really mind the cooldown, so long as I can see how freaking long it is until the thing is over. I couldn't find a single way, out of multiple plays in the demo, to see how many seconds are left on the cooldown?



Can someone tell me where it shows how much is left in the cooldown? I'm either dumb, or they made it really, really irritating and aren't letting you see when you can or can't use a potion.

[Count Viceroy]

The cooldown is fine. It just forces people to actually tank with the tank. Not running around willy nilly with their mage who should be made out of paper.

[rumination888]

Proper use of crowd control(ie. pommel strike, shield bash, evasion) and buffs/debuffs(ie. winters grasp, heroic aura) made everything a breeze in the demo. BioWare has created a system where CC and buffs/debuffs matter more than heals. Understand this and adapt.

[mintcar]

GunClubGirl wrote...

I have come to realize, and accept, that I will be required to have 2 mages who can heal in my party at all times to get through the game. Hopefully this will make the cooldowns less annoying and less debilitating.

Have two sword and board fighters instead, if you want it to be easier. I found that to be the easiest way to play the demo at least. And looking at the talents, they can seemingy become very resilient to damage. Then you can focus on damage output with your mage and rogue.

[TeamLexana]

rumination888 wrote...

Proper use of crowd control(ie. pommel strike, shield bash, evasion) and buffs/debuffs(ie. winters grasp, heroic aura) made everything a breeze in the demo. BioWare has created a system where CC and buffs/debuffs matter more than heals. Understand this and adapt.

Ideally most of the time yes but there is the odd time when the tank doesn't catch all the aggro fast enough which is where healing is suspose to come in so u can last enough to kill what's being difficult and attacking what isn't the tank esp early game when u don't have that many abilities yet to cc and aggro manage.

[Sabariel]

Count Viceroy wrote...

The cooldown is fine. It just forces people to actually tank with the tank. Not running around willy nilly with their mage who should be made out of paper.

My tank got crushed no matter what I did as my healer couldn't keep up with the pace of battle and keep said tank alive. So not much help there

[Sabariel]

Ada Wong wrote...

You shouldn't even need to heal much in
the demo. It's not that hard. Your best bet is to kill enemies faster,
instead of chugging potions to prolong the fight.

Oh, and did people forget that Cunning is now the defense stat?  Your warriors will survive much longer with decent cunning.

Just because I enjoy repeating myself... repeatedly...

Sabariel wrote...

Even with Shield Defense Aveline was getting her butt kicked and if you
redirect the aggression to Carver he dies in roughly 10 seconds
because... you can't keep him alive. I also tried bouncing the enemies
back and forth between Aveline and Carver and... they both died
because... my healer couldn't keep up with the pace of the battle. Then
my healer was eaten for a snack [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]

Throw me a bone, BW. Middle ground? Toggle? Scaling cooldowns? Something? :innocent:

Modifié par Sabariel, 25 février 2011 - 11:32 .