448 réponses à ce sujet

[Zalocx]

SudsyPatriarch wrote...

The combat is not the same in my opinion, its too darn easy. You dont have to pause to think anymore, everything is played out by itself.

perhaps because the demo was locked on "Normal"? When I played Normal in DA:O I didn't need to pause to think, which is why I played on Nightmare and plan to do the same with DA2

[KenKenpachi]

What don't people get about Demo's its like a food cart giving a sample at a grocery store. What do you think it will be a damn buffet table? I have never seen a game that matched up with its Demo perfectly or vise versa. In most cases the Demo's are waaay worse. And if the demo and game is so bad, heres an idea, go to another company, or stop whinning and make your own game.


Wait wow some people had to stop and think to play DA:O? No wonder some of you hate this new game, I think you might want to start looking at E title games.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 24 février 2011 - 05:52 .

[Ryzaki]

Personally I could've done with less note taking from ME especially when thenotes they took in my view are what made ME a weaker game than DAO. 

And if they wanted to copy ME's "cinematic" so badly they should've made cinematic graphics but regardless...

At this point though I'll just take it for what it is. I'm not expecting the same experience I got with DAO and that's fine. I'll judge the game on it's on merits.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 février 2011 - 05:54 .

[Incantrix]

ITT the op is a complainer who has played the game, (I guess he is special) therefor he is now entitled to an opinion. Yes, i know...shocking!

[Atomic Zombie Smasher]

Gosuchobo wrote...

 I just found this on a german gaming site. Seems DA2 has a more fitting title now 

Thanks very much.  That captures my thoughts quite well.

Modifié par Atomic Zombie Smasher, 24 février 2011 - 06:02 .

[Brockololly]

Ryzaki wrote...
And if they wanted to copy ME's "cinematic" so badly they should've made cinematic graphics but regardless...
 

Bingo.

DA2 trying for the ME style presentation is truly a mixed bag, IMO. Its like the nerdy science geek younger sibling
looking up to his jock football captain older brother and subsequently trying out for the football team and abandoning his science geek clubs. Maybe he makes the football team, but at best he's now firmly in the shadow of his older brother whereas if he stayed in science geekdom, he'd have forged his own path and his own identity.

In terms of the wheel and general presentation, DA2 comes across as wanting to be like ME, but due to a whole host of rough edges and little issues, just can't get up to par with ME or ME2.

At least in the demo, that is. Maybe its better when taken in as a whole.

[pezit]

JohnEpler wrote...

pezit wrote...

Purple People Eater wrote...

To answer the question of the OP. What would Bioware pursuing a different game series even do for you?. Are you under the impression that it would have been your dream game come true if it wouldnt have had the title Dragon Age on it?. That somehow, Bioware wouldn't have gone in the same direction with "that" game as they have with DA2?. That makes absolutely no sense. These guys are game designers. Artists. They want to push forward and try new things. Improve upon formulas they created. A new game title wouldnt change the fact that its you with the problem, not Bioware. Just sayin.

Allow me the laugh at your noble thoughts of bioware, they just want to make money. Artists? They just copied everything from ME2, and just as in that game focused all their efforts on making the combat "cooler" and more fast paced completely abondoning their roots.

Wow, that sounds -way- easier than what we did.

Not saying it was easy, otherwise all game companies would produce these top sellers. My point was that you put your focus on the combat more than anything else, which can be clearly seen in trailers and "hype", where combat is pretty much the only thing you hear about. And to me this clearly signals that you're targeting a new audiance, just as ME2 did.

Well looking at the game market this day i guess i should be happy it's not a MMO-game.

[SudsyPatriarch]

KenKenpachi wrote...

What don't people get about Demo's its like a food cart giving a sample at a grocery store. What do you think it will be a damn buffet table? I have never seen a game that matched up with its Demo perfectly or vise versa. In most cases the Demo's are waaay worse. And if the demo and game is so bad, heres an idea, go to another company, or stop whinning and make your own game.


Wait wow some people had to stop and think to play DA:O? No wonder some of you hate this new game, I think you might want to start looking at E title games.

Are we supposed to not have any complaints at all? No points of view? If i am correct, a demo is not only released because people will smile, but to see what people think about the demo. These are peoples opinions about the demo.

[AngelicMachinery]

BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

[PyroJack]

I have no problem with DA2 seems like i'm in the minority though everybody's getting their knickers in a twist about something oh but i forgot that's the general practice when bioware release a new game just my two cents

[Exevier]

I don't understand all this complaining. For one, Bioware has the creative license to do what they want, and that should be end of story. For two, what's wrong with fine-tuning the art style and gameplay so that the game has a more exciting, engaging feel to it? All the numbers are still running, it's still not a hack-and-slash, and Nightmare mode will still make you feel like a little girl.

Sure, by making the same underlying mechanics a bit more exciting, they may draw in a slightly larger crowd. But isn't this a good thing? Personally, I feel Bioware as a company has some of the most talented artists in the gaming industry, and I'd like to see them profit from it accordingly.

To me, it's a win-win situation. For the original fans, it's still Dragon Age. It's still a strategy game at its core, regardless of all the "sky is falling" talk. For potential new fans, it's a really awesome-looking game set in a really interesting dark fantasy world. Personally, I don't feel that March 8 can get here soon enough.

Modifié par Exevier, 24 février 2011 - 06:14 .

[Purple People Eater]

pezit wrote...

Purple People Eater wrote...

To answer the question of the OP. What would Bioware pursuing a different game series even do for you?. Are you under the impression that it would have been your dream game come true if it wouldnt have had the title Dragon Age on it?. That somehow, Bioware wouldn't have gone in the same direction with "that" game as they have with DA2?. That makes absolutely no sense. These guys are game designers. Artists. They want to push forward and try new things. Improve upon formulas they created. A new game title wouldnt change the fact that its you with the problem, not Bioware. Just sayin.

Allow me to laugh at your noble thoughts of bioware, they just want to make money. Artists? They just copied everything from ME2, and just as in that game focused all their efforts on making the combat "cooler" and more fast paced completely abondoning their roots.

Okay first of all, they pretty much invented the dialogue wheel, so I think they can use it in whatever game, and in whichever way they choose. I assume thats what you're talking about, because that is the only thing even remotely like ME2. The fact that you cant see what tremendously talented artists Bioware is, and can only infer them as money grubbers speaks loudly to your ignorance. You do realize that most artists create art for a living right?, not to further inflate your already overly inflated sense of entitlement over the art itself.. Oh, and the roots your refering to are very much visible throughout every Bioware game, you just have to pull you head out of your a** to see them.

[steelfire_dragon]

in the words of the famous charley brown, GOOD GRIEF

[PsychoBlonde]

JohnEpler wrote...

pezit wrote...

Purple People Eater wrote...

To answer the question of the OP. What would Bioware pursuing a different game series even do for you?. Are you under the impression that it would have been your dream game come true if it wouldnt have had the title Dragon Age on it?. That somehow, Bioware wouldn't have gone in the same direction with "that" game as they have with DA2?. That makes absolutely no sense. These guys are game designers. Artists. They want to push forward and try new things. Improve upon formulas they created. A new game title wouldnt change the fact that its you with the problem, not Bioware. Just sayin.

Allow me the laugh at your noble thoughts of bioware, they just want to make money. Artists? They just copied everything from ME2, and just as in that game focused all their efforts on making the combat "cooler" and more fast paced completely abondoning their roots.

Wow, that sounds -way- easier than what we did.

No kidding.

[Temaperacl]

wolvklawz wrote...
Sorry I dissagree 100%.  Graphics look great IMO.  Course when I was 7 I stood in line for the Original Legend of Zelda, so by today's standards, I am more...open. 

I concur with you in regards to graphics quality - Then again, I'm in the middle of yet another runthrough of the Gold Box series, so I'm also more 'open' in regards to this.  On the other hand, based on the demo I do dislike some of the graphical design changes they made - I think the quality is fine, but I still don't like the look as much. So far, it isn't enough to be a deal breaker, just enough to be a point to complain about.

Second they improved combat, yes combat needed to be more action orientated,

I disagree - I'll go more into it later, but I feel the more action oriented combat is a negative, not a positive.

if you want it to slow down....find a JRPG.

I see where you are coming from with this statement, but I find it humorous, mainly because from the viewpoint of the people who didn't really like the demo, many of the 'problems' of the game, especially combat are viewed as a convergence on the JRPG games. what people are really wanting in combat, I think, is an experience closer to the older classics of Western cRPGs.

 If you can't stand it, go with auto attack.  So far this game is superior to the original in every way, at least from the console point of view.

I won't argue this. But I will state that this is exactly the problem many people have with it.  Many people aren't wanting a "console better" game.  This is probably especially pronounced in DA2 because DA:O was in many ways closer to the classic cRPGS than other games that were recent at the time. What they then see is changes in DA2 that seem to be a shift of the DA series back to the types of games that DA:O was a nice reprieve from.


Regarding combat, there are a couple of reasons why the new combat is not liked.  I will try to elaborate on this as I see it.

First, there is the aesthetics of it.  One thing that many people like is for the game world to "feel" real (This isn't to say that they think it is real, but that it does not violate so many assumptions that they are drawn out of the experience).  This is where alot of the combat comparisons to anime come in. In traditional western cRPGs, and many players view the way that it should be in a fantasy setting, humans are generally assumed to be limited to the same physical restrictions as in ordinary life - that is people are not, by default, magic. this is in contrast the the perception (right or wrong - I'm not famliar enough with anime to judge) that in anime, those restrictions do not apply. People will regularly conduct magical feats (super standing jumps, excessive mid-air acrobatics, teleportation, superspeed, etc.).

The exaggerations in combat and the "speed up" abilities - the rogue teleportation that people are mentioning, the excessive height jumping attacks, the super-speed melee rushes - are all factors that violate this assumption that people are limited to human physical feats. This means that the people are not able to believe in game world - it drives home the "video game" aspect of the combat.

This is the same reason that people complain about the "oversized, weightless" weaponry - because it breaks the assumptions that the normal world physical laws are generally going to apply. The same sort of thing happens when we have the excessive gore.  If you had magic that caused the enemies to explode like that, you would not have many people complaining about that - the fact that magic is causing it leads them to accept them with less problems. But when a sword swing causes it, it violates people's assumptions that physical actions are going to behave and cause physically reasonable results.


Second is the pace of the action.  What alot of people are looking for in an RPG is that the abilities and skills of the character are what are important, not the abilities and physical skills of the player.  This is why alot of people have problems with real-time combat, because it moves the physical skills from being purely character based to having a larger emphasis on the player's physical skill. When the realtime combat is sped up even more, this emphasis increases even more.  The pause feature helps a little, but you still have to be able to time the pauses - when is the right time to drink the potion so that you don't waste any of the healing, but are able to complete the consumption before being overcome?.  This often results in either pausing as soon as an action is complete or just all the time, or letting the game play on auto. 

Either way reduces the fun - the continuous pausing because the game is often not really set up for it, and so it either makes the combat too easy and because it means you either have to watch for the completion of the actions (often difficult if your reactions aren't too good, especially if you have 3 or 4 characters to watch), or you are continously pausing, checking if the action is done, and unpausing which slows the combat down exceptionally.  On the other hand, if you just let it run through on auto, it takes away the fun because you are no longer involved in the combat.

In addition, the higher speed detracts from the excitement of combat for some people (me being one of them).  By the time you realize something happens, it is already on to something else - it just becomes one blur that you are detached from.  You never get a chance to just enjoy the actions that is going on.

Third is the aspect of "tactics".  Some of changes reduce the tactical complexity for each combat.  Ignoring for the moment the aspect of the "tactics" settings that can be set and taking each combat by itself, there are a number of changes that reduce the complexity.  In my opionion, first and largest is the removal of Friendly Fire.  I can go into how this (in my opinion massively) reduces the complexity if desired, but otherwise i will assume this one is obvious. 

I would also argue that the real-time combat leads to combat that requires reduced tactics, but I'm not going to press this as this isn't really the thread for RT v. TB discussion.

I'm running out of steam (and immediate time) at the moment, so I'll let it go at this for the present.  But this is a brief overview of some of the reasons why people aren't happy with the changes - because "better" is subjective and, from what they want in a game, this is, as far as they have seen, further from what they want than DA:O was.

One of the reasons some people are tending to react intensely to this change is that DA:O was percieved as a step in the right direction. By being further from their ideal than DA:O and by being percieved as closer to the problems that DA:O was getting away from, DA2 is being viewed as a step backward.

One way I've heard the changes compared is that many of us want more of a focus on mechanics. Instead what we are getting is a focus on appearance.  While I don't think this covers it completely, I do believe it has a point.

One other note - before anyone claims that people are just nostalgic and the old games weren't actually that good. or just not keeping up with the times, i would posit that

(A) Yes, they are nostalic, but that doesn't mean the game wasn't good.
Like I mentioned earlier, I've been replaying the Gold box games. The controls in combat for some of the games have a certain simplicity and elegance that are impressive from the standpoint of a programmer knowing the restrictions that were in place, but are much more clunky and hard to use than a modern interface.  Despite this, the combat is more fun than the Demo combat was - It is slower, but it is more exciting, it feels like the characters are taking larger risks, and  it requires more thought. You don't see the same amount of guts, sure, but in the current terms that are being thrown around it is more visceral - it provokes a much stronger reaction in me than any of the demo combat did.

( The reason that gameplay changed is not due to changes in technology but due to changes in priorities and potentially the audience. The older mechanics are potentially just as valid today as they were a couple decades ago.


[Edit: Try to restore some formatting]

Modifié par Temaperacl, 24 février 2011 - 06:27 .

[Ryzaki]

Brockololly wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
And if they wanted to copy ME's "cinematic" so badly they should've made cinematic graphics but regardless...
 

Bingo.

DA2 trying for the ME style presentation is truly a mixed bag, IMO. Its like the nerdy science geek younger sibling
looking up to his jock football captain older brother and subsequently trying out for the football team and abandoning his science geek clubs. Maybe he makes the football team, but at best he's now firmly in the shadow of his older brother whereas if he stayed in science geekdom, he'd have forged his own path and his own identity.

In terms of the wheel and general presentation, DA2 comes across as wanting to be like ME, but due to a whole host of rough edges and little issues, just can't get up to par with ME or ME2.

At least in the demo, that is. Maybe its better when taken in as a whole.

Yeah it's pretty bad when the close ups and the like only reveal how average the graphics are. ME2 was drop dead gorgeous with multiple environments and worlds. Very pretty, from what I've seen of DA2 it's not even remotely near ME2's league. 

[88mphSlayer]

i don't really get everybody saying DA2 is going for the ME2 style presentation... besides a voiced PC and the dialogue wheel? can't say it's graphics because ME2 was a lot more detailed than ME1

only big difference i see is DA2 seems less colorful, i mean in DAO you still slaughtered waves of generic enemies but you did it in a forest, or a farm, or a colorful cave or in the fade or etc., you've got the poop wastelands but that's about it, the city part looked a lot more promising than Denerim which was a huge disappointment of a location in the first game, i dunno i think i'll wait and judge the game's overall art design when the full game comes out

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 24 février 2011 - 06:31 .

[Temaperacl]

88mphSlayer wrote...
i don't really get everybody saying DA2 is going for the ME2 style presentation... besides a voiced PC and the dialogue wheel? can't say it's graphics because ME2 was a lot more detailed than ME1

To be fair, wasn't the graphics quality setting locked (or maxed) to Medium? Or was that a problem with it's analysis of my machine?

Modifié par Temaperacl, 24 février 2011 - 06:34 .

[pezit]

Purple People Eater wrote...

pezit wrote...

Purple People Eater wrote...

To answer the question of the OP. What would Bioware pursuing a different game series even do for you?. Are you under the impression that it would have been your dream game come true if it wouldnt have had the title Dragon Age on it?. That somehow, Bioware wouldn't have gone in the same direction with "that" game as they have with DA2?. That makes absolutely no sense. These guys are game designers. Artists. They want to push forward and try new things. Improve upon formulas they created. A new game title wouldnt change the fact that its you with the problem, not Bioware. Just sayin.

Allow me to laugh at your noble thoughts of bioware, they just want to make money. Artists? They just copied everything from ME2, and just as in that game focused all their efforts on making the combat "cooler" and more fast paced completely abondoning their roots.

Okay first of all, they pretty much invented the dialogue wheel, so I think they can use it in whatever game, and in whichever way they choose. I assume thats what you're talking about, because that is the only thing even remotely like ME2. The fact that you cant see what tremendously talented artists Bioware is, and can only infer them as money grubbers speaks loudly to your ignorance. You do realize that most artists create art for a living right?, not to further inflate your already overly inflated sense of entitlement over the art itself.. Oh, and the roots your refering to are very much visible throughout every Bioware game, you just have to pull you head out of your a** to see them.

The wheel, the non-existant customization of your companions equipment, the cinematic style with a non-customizable main character, as i said earlier the more action focused kinda gameplay and even the UI reminds me a lot about ME2 but is less refined (and doesn't fit the setting). Both games were made with more the console gamer in mind with both the UI and the gameplay, stuff like zooming out, clicking through your character, auto-attacking after a spell being used and being able to tab to see life bars are all small things but just shows you they didn't spend as much time on the PC version as the console one.

[Lacan2]

To me, cheap cashing in would be making DA2 the same as DAO. Considering the broken, boring combat from DAO, I wouldn't have bought DA2 if it turned out the same.

[PyroJack]

Ryzaki wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
And if they wanted to copy ME's "cinematic" so badly they should've made cinematic graphics but regardless...
 

Bingo.

DA2 trying for the ME style presentation is truly a mixed bag, IMO. Its like the nerdy science geek younger sibling
looking up to his jock football captain older brother and subsequently trying out for the football team and abandoning his science geek clubs. Maybe he makes the football team, but at best he's now firmly in the shadow of his older brother whereas if he stayed in science geekdom, he'd have forged his own path and his own identity.

In terms of the wheel and general presentation, DA2 comes across as wanting to be like ME, but due to a whole host of rough edges and little issues, just can't get up to par with ME or ME2.

At least in the demo, that is. Maybe its better when taken in as a whole.

Yeah it's pretty bad when the close ups and the like only reveal how average the graphics are. ME2 was drop dead gorgeous with multiple environments and worlds. Very pretty, from what I've seen of DA2 it's not even remotely near ME2's league. 

graphics aren't everything though i go for personality Mass effect 2 is like a supermodel whose personality leaves a lot to be desired whereas dragon age 2 is a girl who people would say she isn't the best looking but to me she's beautiful and to me her personality is funky and cute so i prefer dragon age 2 (did that actually make sense? haha) oh and before anyone has a go that was an EXAMPLE it doesn't necessarily describe my feelings on ME2 i like both Mass effect and Dragon age i just prefer Dragon age yes i have an opinion what a shock

Modifié par PyroJack, 24 février 2011 - 06:38 .

[Sereaph502]

PyroJack wrote...

I have no problem with DA2 seems like i'm in the minority though everybody's getting their knickers in a twist about something oh but i forgot that's the general practice when bioware release a new game just my two cents

No no, the complainers are the minority.  They're kicking and screaming because they can't handle change, and they don't realize the full game will have more than one difficulty level unlocked, the inventory system unlocked, and the character generator unlocked.

When the game actually comes out I gaurentee you 90% or more of everyone complaining will go, "Gee, that wasn't as bad as I thought!" with only a few hardcore complainers left who will complain regardless of anything.

Hell, if Bioware gave in, recalled DA2, and remade it to be more like origins and BG1/2, you know what would happen?  The very same people who complained about DA2 not being like DA:O will start complaining about DA2 being too much like DA:O and not expanding on anything.

[Iberius]

Sereaph502 wrote...

PyroJack wrote...

I have no problem with DA2 seems like i'm in the minority though everybody's getting their knickers in a twist about something oh but i forgot that's the general practice when bioware release a new game just my two cents

No no, the complainers are the minority.  They're kicking and screaming because they can't handle change, and they don't realize the full game will have more than one difficulty level unlocked, the inventory system unlocked, and the character generator unlocked.

When the game actually comes out I gaurentee you 90% or more of everyone complaining will go, "Gee, that wasn't as bad as I thought!" with only a few hardcore complainers left who will complain regardless of anything.

Hell, if Bioware gave in, recalled DA2, and remade it to be more like origins and BG1/2, you know what would happen?  The very same people who complained about DA2 not being like DA:O will start complaining about DA2 being too much like DA:O and not expanding on anything.

[LadyBri]

nelly21 wrote...

Skyrim looks really good. And its release date gives me ample time to play through DA 2 multiple times.

Best ****g year EVER!

So much this!

I am excited to have 2 really awesome and exciting RPGs to tackle this year, especially considering that they are sequels to two of my favorite games ever.

[pezit]

Sereaph502 wrote...

PyroJack wrote...

I have no problem with DA2 seems like i'm in the minority though everybody's getting their knickers in a twist about something oh but i forgot that's the general practice when bioware release a new game just my two cents

No no, the complainers are the minority.  They're kicking and screaming because they can't handle change, and they don't realize the full game will have more than one difficulty level unlocked, the inventory system unlocked, and the character generator unlocked.

When the game actually comes out I gaurentee you 90% or more of everyone complaining will go, "Gee, that wasn't as bad as I thought!" with only a few hardcore complainers left who will complain regardless of anything.

Hell, if Bioware gave in, recalled DA2, and remade it to be more like origins and BG1/2, you know what would happen?  The very same people who complained about DA2 not being like DA:O will start complaining about DA2 being too much like DA:O and not expanding on anything.

And in comes the guy with the "they're just afraid of change" "argument". If you cannot see the fault of this argument i feel sorry for you but i'll try to make you understand anyway. This statement pretty much says "they cannot change anything to the worse", and that all change is good. Can you really not realise that some people prefer slower combat? Or the previous UI? Or the more varied options in conversations? Of course almost everyone will appreciate something that is clearly an upgrade from the previous, but when it's just a change from slower paced combat to faster paced combat you will have people disagreeing.

Modifié par pezit, 24 février 2011 - 06:49 .