171 réponses à ce sujet

[Augustei]

So as seen in the building in Denerim, Orsino the person who is seemingly heading the side of the mages (As seen in the picture of him standing opposite the Templar commander at the main menu in the demo) He has Blood Mage Followers... And by exstention of this is quite possibly a Blood mage himself..

Now we see that the Chantry is corrupt and some of its actions are quite questionable such as their treatment of Mages and their claim of Sovereignty over the world..  Allowing them to persue this course of action could definitly be considered evil... So could removing them however since Order would be lost for a while and a massive power vaccum would become evident and people would take advantage of the chaos etc etc.

Anyway, Could siding with this Orsino be a partially evil decision as well since he is a possible blood mage, followed by blood mages and could bring back the ways of Tevinter where blood magic was openly practiced and Mages were viewed as above the rest of society and treated better etc.. which is also not exactly a good thing to put it likely.
 
So we are seemingly given 2 grey choices.. or 2 black choices, trading 1 evil for another.. Possibly worse evil.

What are your thoughts on this?

EDIT: *SPOILERS*

Well it seems Knight Commander Meridith is possessed by a demon... probably a demon of pride, going of a screenshot found of her as the end boss and she has red clowing eyes and red electrical sparks around her body..

So Could you keep the chantry in power, as a result maintaining stability in Thedas but leaving a possible Pride Demon in charge of things and keeping the mages and elves being treated the way they are?

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 04 mars 2011 - 07:36 .

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Good and evil are relative to your own moral compass that was likely shaped by the social environment you were raised in. Making any discussion of the moral implications completely pointless.



On a more meta level, I will enjoy at least two playthroughs to stick it to the mages or the chantry if that is the eventual choice we end up making in the game.

[Augustei]

By own moral compass it could be referring to the player or Hawke. Both of those are potentially different depending on how you play your charecter.. if playing more from hawkes prospective then your own. What view do you think he would form on said situation? That makes a remark on how any discussion of moral implications completely pointless.. Rather pointless in itself does it not? =D

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

I guess my point was that you've already got these preconceptions that blood magic is evil. It's entirely possible (in fact, highly likely), that Hawke, as a character, does not believe blood magic is evil. Which just shows why good and evil aren't absolutes.

[SnowHeart1]

As much as I'm tired of moral relativism, in this case I think it's true. The corruption of some does not mean an entire institution is evil, and blood magic can be fueled with your own blood and does not require pacts with demons. So, neither is per se "evil".



That said, I'll do anything I can to bring down the Chantry for reasons I've discussed ad nauseum in other threads.

[Insom]

Neither one is evil or completely good. Blood magic when used carefully is fine. Grey Wardens use it on darkspawn all the time.

[nightcobra]

orsino is the current first enchanter of kirkwall's circle of magi, i don't know if he'd be a blood mage but i find it unlikely.

[Albatroz]

They're supposed to be morally grey. That's how Dragon Age works. You can choose either one and be confident that you're doing the right thing with a "the ends justify the means" mentality. I know personally, if the choice is there, I'll be siding with the Chantry and the Templars in my first play through.

[Augustei]

Yeah Blood magic is fine, I mean it proves to be of great aid during the blight. The main point of was more focused on was the adoption of the ideals of Tevinter society where mages were placed above normal people.. Which is no better then how they are now being placed below them. Blood magic doesn't seem evil in itself.. But for some mages it seems to be a gateway to evil.. Like Marjuana is a doorway to worse drugs.. lol Like if they try Blood magic they wont place limitations on their practices and it will kind of go downhill from there

[Augustei]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

orsino is the current first enchanter of kirkwall's circle of magi, i don't know if he'd be a blood mage but i find it unlikely.

His symbol is found all over the place in the blood mage hideout in denerim though.. Its not like a family heraldry. Its His Symbol being placed as an object of seemingly high importance to the blood mages

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 24 février 2011 - 03:04 .

[Fallstar]

Personally I'll take down the chantry irrespective of the means used, and my Origins mage used blood magic, as will my mage Hawke playthrough, so I have no qualms there.

[Erani]

SirLogical wrote...

Personally I'll take down the chantry irrespective of the means used, and my Origins mage used blood magic, as will my mage Hawke playthrough, so I have no qualms there.

This. Don't really care how, the Chantry needs to be brought down.

[Augustei]

Poor chantry.. It has so much hate coming its way =/ lol

[Potato Cat]

I highly doubt Orsino is a blood mage since he's the First Enchanter. The Chantry would have destroyed him ages ago. And please remember that the Blood Mage followers, if he has any, I haven't read anything confirming this, won't be EVIL or have blood magic their defining quality. Bioware isn't like this.

[Potato Cat]

And I also see this choice as a Harrowmont/Bhelen situation. Finding the lesser of two evils. Both will obviously lead the world to the brink of war. Side with mages, and the Chantry might not exactly approve. The Chantry will then likely lead an Exalted March or other mages might want similar treatment and get aggressive. Side with the Chantry and Templars and the influence and strength of the Chantry and Templar Order will increase massively and all Circles will be held "in an iron grip" like the Kirkwall Circle and mages everywhere will get fed up and rebel.

[Augustei]

Elfman wrote...

I highly doubt Orsino is a blood mage since he's the First Enchanter. The Chantry would have destroyed him ages ago. And please remember that the Blood Mage followers, if he has any, I haven't read anything confirming this, won't be EVIL or have blood magic their defining quality. Bioware isn't like this.

They had blood soaked alters and were keeping dragons and killing people. How is that not evil?

[Potato Cat]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Elfman wrote...

I highly doubt Orsino is a blood mage since he's the First Enchanter. The Chantry would have destroyed him ages ago. And please remember that the Blood Mage followers, if he has any, I haven't read anything confirming this, won't be EVIL or have blood magic their defining quality. Bioware isn't like this.

They had blood soaked alters and were keeping dragons and killing people. How is that not evil?

Yes, those ones were evil, but they also weren't all that vital to the plot. Also, being a blood mage doesn't make you do those things, look Merrill. Bioware seems to WANT us to side with the mages, with our mage sister and father among other things.

[Wulfram]

I currently rather doubting you get any meaningful choice.

[LobselVith8]

Blood magic is a powerful tool; it's the edge that the revolutionists believed would give them the means of emancipating themselves in "A Broken Circle." Although there have been people who abused blood magic abilities, we also know that there are Grey Wardens who have had to resort to such abilities in order to combat the darkspawn. If Orsino is a blood mage, I don't think that it means he'll be the evil choice; it might simply be that he is using a powerful tool in order to see his people emancipated from those he views as their oppressors.

[Red Templar]

Wulfram wrote...

I currently rather doubting you get any meaningful choice.

Seeing as Varric implies that the Chantry's power is broken no matter what you do, that part is probably fixed.

I hope it isn't too fixed though. I'll be very annoyed if I'm railroaded down the anti-Chantry bandwagon no matter what.

[LobselVith8]

Red Templar wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I currently rather doubting you get any meaningful choice.

Seeing as Varric implies that the Chantry's power is broken no matter what you do, that part is probably fixed.

I hope it isn't too fixed though. I'll be very annoyed if I'm railroaded down the anti-Chantry bandwagon no matter what.

If Hawke supports the Chantry, maybe the line can mean that "her Chantry" is broken while his is supplanting it?

[XX-Pyro]

In my opinion, freedom is to be valued above forced peace. Peace is grown into, freedom should always be there.



That's my logic in siding with the mages on my "good" playthroughs.

[Purgatious]

I really do hope we get to blow the whole chantry up, as that whole neo-smith court yard scene in the trailer with hawke and the templars.

[Eclipse_9990]

Blood Magic is not evil. There are multiple sides to it. Read this

"Blood Mage: Nothing inspires as much wild-eyed terror as the Blood Mage. Mages of this type take the raw energy of life and twist it to their own purposes. They can corrupt and control, and sustain their power by consuming the health of others, willing or not. The effects can be vile, but this specialization isn’t limited to madmen and monsters. Many see it as the only form of magic that is truly free, because it’s tied to the physical, not favors to spirits or demons. It remains an undeniably violent and self-destructive discipline, however, and the Blood Mage must be careful. The temptation to take just a little more is always there."

Blood Magic is not inherently evil. Its mostly a independent form of magic unlike the Spirit Healer who relies on spirits to use their healing abillities. That being said it is very powerful, and has to potential to be abused. But the same can be said for any form of magic. A person who is evil, and loves killing people is going to use blood magic for bad stuff. A person who is good, and likes to protect will use blood magic for good. The only "bad" thing is that it uses your own life force, and can potentially kill you if you go too far with it. But thats nobodies buisness but yours. 

Blood Magic is not good or evil. I believe its a magic thats rooted in the grey area. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 25 février 2011 - 04:10 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Making moral (or ANY decisions for that matter) without keeping in mind that Thedas is a medieval-like setting with ALL that it implies - is ill advised.





Some hate the Chantry/templars because they can judge mages based soley on what someone said.

Those same people forget that witness accounts is pretty much THE main type of evidence that was avilable at that time. It's not only the templars that judge based on witness testimony - EVERYONE does it. There is no CSI, no DNA analysis, no fingerprint ID. Heck, such a thing as "human rights" or "rules of engagment" didn't exist.



The people of Thedas work with what they have - the Landsmeet pretty much proves it, as practicly all evidence you brought was testimonies (except that paper signed by Loghain, but it was considered the weakest piece of evidence!). The number of weight of your witnesses was what won the case.



Similar thing with DSims and Aenerin. There is little that can be done NOW about such things, let alone back then. A smart police officer can kill in the field and avoid getting caught, even with all our modern forensic marvels. Resources and time are limited, there's plenty of cases to go around. Most cases will have only a basic forensic check.

With military matter, even with all of our rules, oversight and modern sensibilities, in war, horrible things continue to happen.

And yet some of us are appaled when something like this happens in medieval times?



Again, TheDAs is a setting that is technologicly, culturally and in many other ways different from our own. And too many people are too quick to judge without taking that into account.

By their own standards, they'd have to not only destroy the Chantry, but the whole worlds of Thedas.