992 réponses à ce sujet

[Threeparts]

Galad22 wrote...

Personally I want to know what I am going to say, If I don't know that I get the feeling that I am just playing as some jackass who just goes around slaughtering random people. Instead of you know roleplaying as someone else.

I can understand some people's worries about the paraphrasing. I don't mind it since I tend to save before most conversions and reload to see what outcomes other options have, but I understand that some people feel that it takes some control of their character from them.
To me, it increases the cinematic feel of dialogue scenes, and gives me a bit more interest in how my character is developing. She starts developing a personality by herself in the way she responds without my interference, which is actually kind of exciting. I'm directing her development, but also discovering who she is at the same time. Cool.

However, I understand that DA:O modders could create their own dialogue trees and edit existing ones, couldn't they? Perhaps a modder will decide to change the paraphrasing to a transcript instead, once the tools to do so are released. It isn't ideal, I know that and I'm sorry, but it's really the best on offer right now.

[Awildawn]

I like the 3 path RPG system because if you know how conversation branching is done, the 3 path can sometime be one (whatever you answer has the same effect) or nine (you multiply the 3 choices that were given by the next three choices, and each combination is meaningful) or anything... To me, these three paths summarize broadly how you can respond to a lot of situations.

[Gavinthelocust]

Would've been better if they used all six of the possible slots for conversation rather than stealing Mass Effects system almost completely, but I don't know. Maybe they'll do just that and give us more options.

[Derax]

wowpwnslol wrote...

It's worse. Made for ADD kids too lazy to read, so they even added pictures. I hate ME style dialogue "wheel" it screams console oversimplification.

+++

[elearon1]

Clonedzero wrote...
in all honesty, its not that different from what origins was like. its just not all listed out ....
its just presented in a wheel this time.

There you go folks, the reality of the situation.  In truth, you have no less freedom now than you ever did, it's simply a matter of how you're perceiving it.

[AkiKishi]

Galad22 wrote...
Personally I want to know what I am going to say, If I don't know that I get the feeling that I am just playing as some jackass who just goes around slaughtering random people. Instead of you know roleplaying as someone else.

Same here especially when the lines do not match the keywords. Happens all the time in ME , happened a few times in the demo so I don't see as DA2 will be any different overall.

elearon1 wrote...

There you go folks, the reality of the situation.  In truth, you have no less freedom now than you ever did, it's simply a matter of how you're perceiving it.

Except it's wrong. In DA what you "clicked" was what you said. It was not something that sort of might possibly resemble the keyword you chose.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 24 février 2011 - 03:44 .

[Derax]

They did it to make it easier for console users to control;



as I am a pc user i hate it ;D

[kreite]

masseffect706 wrote...

Ugh. People keep saying this is an evil/good system. Its not. It is a diplomatic/aggressive system.
For instance, Wesley comes up to you and threatens Bethany. You can diplomatically tell him to calm down, or you could be more aggressive in protection of your little sister. There will be times where the aggressive option could be considered as the morally good option. For an example a demon tries to make a deal with you. You could be diplomatic with the demon, essentially making a deal with the demon. Or you could be aggressive and attack. Aggressive but morally good. And then there is the sarcastic option, which is just full of win.

this, thread over

[Addai]

elearon1 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
in all honesty, its not that different from what origins was like. its just not all listed out ....
its just presented in a wheel this time.

There you go folks, the reality of the situation.  In truth, you have no less freedom now than you ever did, it's simply a matter of how you're perceiving it.

Nothing in Origins was collecting a "personality profile" on my Warden and making dialogue and character decisions based on past choices.  The player was in control of the Warden's responses.  I prefer player control.  If I want my PC to be having a bad hair day, I don't want the fact that she's been a girl scout in other situations to dictate what she does.

[Captain Sassy Pants]

Itkovian wrote...

I like it, mostly because it is coupled with the more cinematic dialogue.
That said, it's not very different from DAO's dialogue. How many paths do you think actually existed in DAO? All this did is formalize the process.
In fact, there is a greater RP involvement in this system because the game actually tracks your character's attitudes and adjusts the dialogue accordingly, allowing you to build a personality for your character that will affect other people's actions towards him. This is something that never existed in DAO and BG2.
And the icons are not there to "dumb down" the selection, that is simply factually wrong. It is to help clarify the paraphrase. Indeed, I imagine those complaining about the icons would complain about the lack of clarity in the paraphrases otherwise.
Hate on the paraphrasing system if you like, that's a valid concern, but bashing the icons or the number of paths is simple nonsense.
Itkovian

Having an icon so I don't even need to read a thing is not "dumbing down"?

I didn't read a thing. I just clicked the one with the icon I wanted. It speeds things up for the ADD kids who just want to get back to the action, taking any thought out of choices.

It's factually correct to say it is "dumbing down" actually, as it was the whole point.

[lv427]

I think the icons for tone are going to be a big improvement. Also, one of the devs posted somewhere (no way I'm going to find it) that you should consider the paraphrase the first part of the dialogue instead of thinking of it as a summary. I started doing that and it makes everything that Shephard or Hawke says after make sense. Between that and the icons, I don't think I'll have any communications problems with DA2.

[elearon1]

Captain Sassy Pants wrote...
Having an icon so I don't even need to read a thing is not "dumbing down"?

Man, they put that in the game because people were complaining in ME2 that intent wasn't always clear from the abbreviated dialogue and people felt they were reading one thing and saying another.  This was meant to help people from misinterpreting the tone of their character's response ... it was a direct concession to complaints made my consumers.  

If you did not have that problem, then it doesn't effect you ... it's okay that not every decision they made in the game was done with players like you in mind.

Modifié par elearon1, 24 février 2011 - 03:55 .

[0rz0]

I think it would be fixed if they removed the colors from the icons (blue/purple/red or whatever). Also to everyone screaming "console dumbing down": Did you not use to save before a dialogue and reload and do the conversation again if you weren't happy with the outcome? And you will still do it when you find sometimes the red option gives blue points and blue option red points.

[Merced652]

kedcoleman wrote...

Maelora wrote...

I hate it personally, but understand it's not 'lazy'.

The game is meant for players who want a lot of combat and simplified RP elements. It was done deliberately.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so; no matter how glib your statement.  Listen.  Imagine Dragon Age 2 with less intricate combat animations and everything on the dialogue wheel presented in list form.  What do you have?  

Dragon Age: Origins.  

Seriously.  It's a change of format more than anything.

No you don't, you still have a voiced douchebag ruining your immersion and screwing up your intent.

[Potato Cat]

In ME I didn't feel any connection to Shepard since it wasn't MY words. In DAO, it was my words, I was connected to the world. But DA is soooo much better than ME in my opinion so I imagine they'll make it work somehow. I like the symbols.

[AkiKishi]

elearon1 wrote...


Man, they put that in the game because people were complaining in ME2 that intent wasn't always clear from the abbreviated dialogue and people felt they were reading one thing and saying another.  This was meant to help people from misinterpreting the tone of their character's response ... it was a direct concession to complaints made my consumers.  

If you did not have that problem, then it doesn't effect you ... it's okay that not every decision they made in the game was done with players like you in mind.

That still applies in DA2 though.

[elearon1]

Merced652 wrote...
No you don't, you still have a voiced douchebag ruining your immersion and screwing up your intent.

And that's what it actually comes down to - trying to hide your hatred for a VA'd protagonist behind other complaints.  Two points, first - whether you're happy about it or not, insulting the actor only makes you look like a jackass.  Second, that's just the way it is ... don't like it, kind of late to do anything buy cry into your cornflakes.  This "VA'd Protagonists are EVIL" line is so tired people have stopped listening to it ... they close their eyes and ears the second they see it ... you only do the argument more harm by bringing it to these forums now.  You really want to do that argument some good?  Take it to a new venue and spread it there.

[Mike2640]

I don't know why anyone is surprised. We already knew it was going to suck, because there was no way it wouldn't suck. An inferior system will always be an inferior system, regardless of the bells and whistles attached to it.

A man with a broken leg is still going to move slowly, regardless of the roller skate you put on his foot.

[Zigzaggy]

I hate it.

[elearon1]

BobSmith101 wrote...
That still applies in DA2 though.

The difference being, the intent behind your line should be clear now.  Personally I don't see the point in being able to read your entire response, then having the VA reread it out loud ... it's redundant.  I would rather be able to read something like the actual first sentance of my response, than an abbreviated version which doesn't always seem to capture the attitude properly; (like the "stay away from my sister" line ... I really wanted to get in Wesley's face with that one) so I can't say I'm absolutely happy with how it works out ... but I still don't understand the beat-your-face-against-the-wall-hatred some people have for the system.

Modifié par elearon1, 24 février 2011 - 04:25 .

[WilliamShatner]

The dialogue system is very limited. There's barely a difference between the choices at all.



For example when you tell Wesley to stay away from Bethany it sounds like a complete paragon response. Where the response that tells him if he goes near Bethany you'll feed his testicles to a marbari warhound?

[RiverLucky]

masseffect706 wrote...

Ugh. People keep saying this is an evil/good system. Its not. It is a diplomatic/aggressive system.
For instance, Wesley comes up to you and threatens Bethany. You can diplomatically tell him to calm down, or you could be more aggressive in protection of your little sister. There will be times where the aggressive option could be considered as the morally good option. For an example a demon tries to make a deal with you. You could be diplomatic with the demon, essentially making a deal with the demon. Or you could be aggressive and attack. Aggressive but morally good. And then there is the sarcastic option, which is just full of win.

This. Thanks for the explanation.

[AkiKishi]

elearon1 wrote...
The difference being, the intent behind your line should be clear now.  Personally I don't see the point in being able to read your entire response, then having the VA reread it out loud ... it's redundant.  I would rather be able to read something like the actual first sentance of my response, than an abbreviated version which doesn't always seem to capture the attitude properly; (like the "stay away from my sister" line ... I really wanted to get in Wesley's face with that one) so I can't say I'm absolutely happy with how it works out ... but I still don't understand the beat-your-face-against-the-wall-hatred some people have for the system.

I'd prefer not having a voice at all. But the reason we are stuck with this system is because they went the single voiced protagonist route of ME2.

I'm withholding judgement till I get the full game but thus far it seems like having a voiced protagonist adversly affects the RP options.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 24 février 2011 - 04:27 .

[ReallyRue]

Clonedzero wrote...

in all honesty, its not that different from what origins was like. its just not all listed out.

(nice continue option)
(snarky continue dialogue option)
(mean continue dialogue option)
(ask clarifying question dialogue option #1 i.e investigate)
(ask clarifying question dialogue option #2 i.e investigate)
(ask clarifying question dialogue option #3 i.e investigate)
(stab the dude dialogue option)

its just presented in a wheel this time.

This.
People just see a wheel and assume it's Mass Effect now.

[elearon1]

WilliamShatner wrote...For example when you tell Wesley to stay away from Bethany it sounds like a complete paragon response. Where the response that tells him if he goes near Bethany you'll feed his testicles to a marbari warhound?

Agreed, I was really looking for that one myself.