992 réponses à ce sujet

[Weiser_Cain]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

I think it's incomplete. There's more to my character than good meh and evil.

It's not good, evil, and the middle road. It's personality and tone. These things existed in DA:O, but just weren't as clear cut and obvious to the players

Don't even try to argue with me.

[j_j_m]

A three path system, if not done correctly, can easily appear highly simplistic with stereotypical, almost to the point of cartoony personality choices. For a supposedly "mature" game, it's not a good system, unless you're actively trying to make the three choices as "gray" as possible.

However, a game can provide you the illusion of choice even with limited dialogue paths, just as long as every choice in the game is not dialogue-bound. The first Witcher game did it well by having few more or less grey dialogue paths, and giving the player the option to solve quests in different order for a different outcome. The main character, Geralt, never appeared as Cpt.Jesus, Big MacBad or the Joker.

[mesmerizedish]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

I think it's incomplete. There's more to my character than good meh and evil.

It's not good, evil, and the middle road. It's personality and tone. These things existed in DA:O, but just weren't as clear cut and obvious to the players

Don't even try to argue with me.

That logic is difficult to fight, but it makes you look like even more of an ass than your incorrect assumptions already do, so I'd dial it back a little. Only push it to eleven when you're right*.




*I do this all the time. I'm always right.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 28 février 2011 - 01:37 .

[TEWR]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

I think it's incomplete. There's more to my character than good meh and evil.

It's not good, evil, and the middle road. It's personality and tone. These things existed in DA:O, but just weren't as clear cut and obvious to the players

Don't even try to argue with me.

That logic is difficult to fight, but it makes you look like even more of an ass than your incorrect assumptions already do, so I'd dial it back a little. Only push it to eleven when you're right*.




*I do this all the time. I'm always right.

like with the LIs being all bi?

[mesmerizedish]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

like with the LIs being all bi?

Fact, my friends. Cold*. Hard**. Fact.




*Like the chilles Merrill gets when she looks at my Lady Hawke

**Like Anders and Fenris when they look at each other

[TEWR]

****Like Aveline when she realized ManHawke was better at EVERYTHING than that dork of a husband Wesley.

and by everything, I mean everything

[Weiser_Cain]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

I think it's incomplete. There's more to my character than good meh and evil.

It's not good, evil, and the middle road. It's personality and tone. These things existed in DA:O, but just weren't as clear cut and obvious to the players

Don't even try to argue with me.

That logic is difficult to fight, but it makes you look like even more of an ass than your incorrect assumptions already do, so I'd dial it back a little. Only push it to eleven when you're right*.


*I do this all the time. I'm always right.

This is me at 3 maybe 5, I can't really push it to "the limit" on the internet.

Modifié par Weiser_Cain, 28 février 2011 - 07:41 .

[mesmerizedish]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

This is me at 3 maybe 5, I can't really push it to "the limit" on the internet.

If you like saying things with certainty that aren't true, then I urge you to say that they're not all bi in my betting pool! :happy:

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 28 février 2011 - 07:47 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Priming studies can prime behaviour. For example, you can subliminally flash "ocean-moon" and then ask people their favourite brand of detergent. The group that received "moon" will respond "Tide" more frequently. When asked why, they will give lots of explanations... but the answer is most likely that the word "tide" was primed by the word pair in a semantic network and just happened to be a homonym for a detergent.

I'd say that's evidence that people will claim to have a preference, despite being unable to justify it.  Not that they can actually have that preference, or know that they have that preference (which is what I was saying).

Someone might claim to have a preference without actually knowing it to be the case, and as I've already suggested, some people aren't sufficiently introspective to know their preferences at all.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Vit246 wrote...

Would it be too much to ask for both dialogue wheel and full-text as an option?

Each one requires the writers write differently from the other.  I'm sure we'll see many exchanges in DA2 that simply wouldn't be possible using the DAO dialogue system, primarily because in DA2 sometimes a single wheel option will produce not only a Hawke line and an NPC response, but then a further Hawke response to that.

If you want the player to vet everything Hawke says, you can't ever do that.

[Ellestor]

David Gaider wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Voicing the protagonist ties us to the delivery the writers intended.  This is bad.

You've always been limited to the delivery we writers intended, as even in DAO the world reacted to that intention and not whatever you made up in your head. We select the possible responses and that's all you get.

And, yes, I know you like to imagine your own delivery, and resign any failure of the world to heed that as their misunderstanding, as if they are incapable of understanding communication. So, yes, we no longer allow you to play a character with Asperger's.

As someone with AS, I laughed. Inside, of course.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ellestor wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

You've always been limited to the delivery we writers intended, as even in DAO the world reacted to that intention and not whatever you made up in your head. We select the possible responses and that's all you get.

And, yes, I know you like to imagine your own delivery, and resign any failure of the world to heed that as their misunderstanding, as if they are incapable of understanding communication. So, yes, we no longer allow you to play a character with Asperger's.

As someone with AS, I laughed. Inside, of course.

I do like that he's being open about the new limits on character design.

Before, we could play a some types of characters whom, according to the Lead Writer, we now cannot.

That's demonstrably a loss.

[Arttis]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Personally I hate it. In DA I would read through my choices and pick the one that suited my character best. Now much like ME we get the good/evil and middle path. Not only that, but we get little icons to make it even easier...

Now you don't even have to read just look at the icons.

Anyway what does everyone else think ? Better or just lazy?

I use to do this.
You get a ton of options.
Now.
you get 4.
renegade like
paragon like
comdey like
then mix.
THe whole marketing thing they talked about for the first DAO was that this wasnt like ME.
Now the marketing says its not ME but we just took a lot of things from ME were just making it a little different.

[KelsieKatt]

I hate the 3 path system.

As it is, in a lot of cases, it comes down to the following:

"You come across a cute little puppy dog with their paw caught in a bear trap. What do you do?"

A) Save the puppy. +Good Points
Ignore the puppy -No Morality Effects-
C) Kick the puppy and laugh. +Evil Points
D) -Insert random joke option that could do any of the 3, just with humor-

Most of the time the options are so extreme, that they seem unrealistic, and the evil options in particular seem to be pretty immature as well. Why would an evil person care about kicking a puppy? It's not their problem, they have better things to do such as manipulating people for their own gain, what do they get from a worthless puppy? School bullies are more likely to kick it, who aren't evil, they're just stupid and immature.

Other than that, in some cases if you don't pick the black and white extremes enough, sometimes you get punished for it in the future and they won't let you have later choices. Mass Effect 2 in particular really pissed me off, why in the world would a Paragon character want to help Morinth? She's a murderous lunatic, yet apparently my primarily evil, but slightly neutral character didn't have quite enough points to resist her, because my character is apparently mentally weak from having a brain instead of just choosing whatever option gets me points. Yeah, that makes sense.

I want her mind control powers... but I can't justify myself role-playing an extremist character who does stuff for points and acts with no rhyme or reason.

I like playing cold, self-centered manipulative characters, not someone who is brutish and immature, which is what a number of these options seem to come down to. Granted, it was funny to watch that drugged-up Volus get his ass kicked, I did enjoy that.

Modifié par KelsieKatt, 28 février 2011 - 06:01 .

[gilgalad80]

shelledfade wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

It's worse. Made for ADD kids too lazy to read, so they even added pictures. I hate ME style dialogue "wheel" it screams console oversimplification.

Agreed.

I also agree.. One of the aspects I liked so much in Origins is the lore and the full text dialogue.
Having icons really does seem to cater to the lazy type of player who doesn't like to read.
Bring back full text atleast as an option is what I propose.

[Weiser_Cain]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

This is me at 3 maybe 5, I can't really push it to "the limit" on the internet.

If you like saying things with certainty that aren't true, then I urge you to say that they're not all bi in my betting pool! :happy:

Nah, arguing with me doesn't make me want to hang out in your thread.

[Myshovoore]

I was just replaying DA:O and found out another reason to dislike the paraphrase introduced with the dialogue wheel: sometimes there are dialogue options that are not appropriate for the character I want to play, but very funny (or otherwise enjoyable). It's not possible with paraphrase - I won't know what the option is unless I choose it.

For reference, the dialogue which caused me to write this is the welcome I got from Cailan when arriving at Ostagar and a possible response:
- Ho there, friend! Might I know your name?
- I highly doubt it, but anything is possible.
For some reason it caused me to crack up laughing. And since my current mage wouldn't be sarcastic in this situation, I would miss it if it was paraphrased.