992 réponses à ce sujet

[Savber100]

This is different from Mass Effect with that there's no 'good' or 'bad' option and only sarcasm, peaceful, and aggressive tones. Unless, you believe aggressive tones equal bad evil person, I think the system is fine.
Besides, what's the other option? Have the full dialogue choices at the beginning and have it read BACK to you in the exact same tone?

Why are you guys complaining about the new system in DAII? The Witcher 2 is using a similar system with the paraphrasing choice selections and no one is complaining about the design choice (I like it).

Last, did anyone noticed that when you used aggressive response against Wesley, you gain FRIENDSHIP points with Bethany and Carver? Being peaceful ain't always the option to win friends. This system is more complex than simple bad and good.

Modifié par Savber100, 24 février 2011 - 06:02 .

[Kaeldorn S]

Kappa Neko wrote...

LadyBri wrote...
There were plenty of times in Origins that I messed up my response in a conversation because I thought a certain reply had a specific intent only to find out I was wrong and the NPC misinterpreted my meaning.  I look forward to this game where my intent/tone becomes a part of my response because I feel it will give me more control in conversations to steer the dialogue down the path I am envisioning.  I don't think it's laziness to have such icons - in fact, I think it allows us more control and input to RP with greater effectiveness.

I enjoyed that, actually. Having to figure out what to say to my companions, only to get flamed for being wrong. I didn't mind having to reload over and over again because I I failed to understand what works with Sten. I tried every answer anyway just to see how the character would react.

What I'm hoping for to save the interactions from becoming another ME lobotomy is that you will still be required to figure out how to talk to people. In ME both approaches would lead to success. If coming across too much of a goody two shoes pisses off certain people and only being aggressive will get things done, it won't be that different to DAO and I'll make peace with the dialogue wheel. We'll find out soon how it plays out.

Fully agreed there. While I didn't reload to get the best response all the time (I did it on some occasions, but not often), I found that seeking to understand your companions and NPCs was a challenge of itself. It'd be for the better if it's not done away with. I don't like it if my character 'just knows' what to say in order to get others to get along with him.

[Adhin]

I promised my self I wouldn't respond to you Merced652, cause every post ive seen you ever make has been some horrid troll fest but... I highly question what you consider Roleplaying. The way your making it sound is more like some delusional person who says stuff, then ignores others responses to it and just makes everything up in there head. That's the kinda behavior white-coats come to take people away for, its not roleplaying.

Having a character, a background (background is, granted, pre-provided for you in games), personality, quirks, morals and so forth that guide normal people made up for a character. Making choices and picking responses that best fits what your version of Hawke is - is roleplaying.

[Saibh]

Wulfram wrote...

That's just because Isabella wants him dead.

What I found a bit annoying was Hawke having to go along with it.  Maybe it'll make more sense in the full game, but I'd find it a bit of a jump from making sure someone plays fair in a duel to hunting down and killing someone in a church.

You don't hunt him down. You wait for him in the Hightown square, he betrays you, you find him in the Chantry, he says there will be no negotiations, and Isabela kills one of his lackeys. At this point, you've already promised to help Isabela if things go awry--that's why you're there.

[Nomen Mendax]

David Gaider wrote...

Galad22 wrote...
Did you know that diplomacy is apparently gone for good. So do you suppose you can talk your way out of any fights?

Considering how often you can do that in ME2 I doubt you can talk your way out of anything in DA2.

Also every other non combat skills are gone.

The lack of non-combat skills does not mean you can't talk your way out of fights.

You get bonus dialogue options based on your personality choices-- so someone who's diplomatic most often will occasionally have such options appear. And that's when you aren't already getting choices that can lead to a peaceful resolution regardless of your personality.

But you're free to jump to conclusions, if you wish.

Will this be documented, or indicated as a consequence of repeatedly selecting the same sorts of responses?  If my character is getting more polished as a diplomat it would be nice to know about this in the game.

[MasterSamson88]

 Threads like these I usually just click the Bioware tag to see what the developers are saying and I must say I'm pleased with how Gaider has been handling things. I also agree with him on the conversation wheel.

I just don't see how it's been dumbed down at all. 

[Zigzaggy]

Mykel54 wrote...

I just can´t get my head around why it is so bad to have the written phrases match the actual dialogue.

That's because it isn't...when roleplaying it makes a great deal of sense.

However as they have went with a Voiced Protaganist it isn't necersary.Now not only do you only have a tidbit clue as to what you will say.It's alot easier to write for,If only david would be truthfull instead of offering waffle

[Gabriel S.]

Compared to the way it was in Origins, personally, I think Investigate is a highly superior method. I can't express how many times I had to quickload to make sure I selected all the 'investigative' options before actually making headway. Very annoying, and ultimately time consuming. Not to mention that it cuts quite some fun out of replays, and for a Terminator-like PC that's can be very, very inconvenient.

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

Merced652 wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

I'd say this is actually a good example of how much it hasn't changed. To me, I would consider option 1 to be agressive, 2 to be snarky, 3 to be polite, and 4 to be Investigate. And the fact that we perceive the tones of each line so differently means that there is already a case for having intent icons. 

But then you're metagaming based on intent instead of roleplaying your charc... nvm. No one RPs.

I do RP, actually. Quite a lot, both in DA and other games.
But how do you see it as metagaming? If I have a City Elf character whose personality dictates that she would make an aggressive response to a human, but I choose a line that turns out to be more humourous than I'd like, is it really metagaming to reload and choose a different option the next time around? I'd consider it being more true to the character, since I had no voice to indicate if she was saying something I thought would be aggressive in a tone that was actually just sarcastic.
With the intent icons I don't need to go through that process of "oh, crap, I wasn't trying to be funny, I was trying to threaten you!", I can already tell that the tone my character will take is the one I intend, regardless of how other characters respond to her.

Yes it is metagaming. You RP like as i described in another thread. With one overreaching event or attitude in mind. Your sole point of reference is "yo i was a slave" so therefore everything is done by your character because you were a slave and its apparently had some huge effect on everything.

Far be it for me to tell you how to RP, but this system forces you in to picking lines not by content(because LOLWHEEL) but by intent because you'll never know what you're actually saying. Thats pretty criminal to me because maybe my character might make an aggressive comment but wouldn't say it so horribly. At least when the intent is unknown and the NPC takes what you thought was an aggressive comment as a joke your character would have to react to that misunderstanding.

That is overlooking the problems with the old system. because you never knew the intent of the old lines some gamer would make chocies they never intended to which would effectively break the roleplaying.

LOL. That doesn't break the roleplaying, THAT MAKES IT. This is why i'm utterly convinced no one RPs because if so then there is absolutely no way you can say that.

that does break the roleplaying. There were times in the game where i would make a dialouge choice and apparently my chracter (that i was role playing as) would say the given dialouge in a diifferent manner than i intended. Now i dont know about you, but in the real world i have full control over my mind. so when i say something i know the intent of what im saying. i understand what i am trying to convey to the person i am talking to. Which means that if i am playing as a character in a rpg i should understand the intent of all chocies in order to effectively role play.

So no one has every missunderstood something you were saying to them or misintepreted your intentions? Wondering what planet you live on.

i never said that i have never been misinterpreted by someone. i said i never misinterpreted MYSELF. i should not be confused by the intent of the protaginist i am trying to role play. i should be allowed to try and convey my intent as best as possible. which the new system is much better at.

[KenKenpachi]

Wow reading some of the RP standards on this forum, I have to ask...



What game short of on pen and paper meets well even half of these? Because I've played alot of ah yes" not" Rpg, RPG's and I haven't seen any of them that allows you to Role play. I can't be an evil overlord in Dragon Age Killing Children and drinking the blood of the innocent now can I? Or can I take my female mage and stop being a Grey Warden and work in the Pearl as ****? Serriously some of the standards I've seen here just arn't in a game.



Serriously I even seen one topic/post that says FF7 isn't an RPG. Wow just wow, I really can't take this forum serriously anymore. Its like watching a text based RPG fight...I'm at a lose of words how quickly a DEMO has ran this place into the ground, not bioware mind you, but the dragon age forums as some of you have starnds and idea's that WERE NOT in DA to begin with. I'm done I'll take a look at the DA2 part forum AFTER the game is released.

[AkiKishi]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

that does break the roleplaying. There were times in the game where i would make a dialouge choice and apparently my chracter (that i was role playing as) would say the given dialouge in a diifferent manner than i intended. Now i dont know about you, but in the real world i have full control over my mind. so when i say something i know the intent of what im saying. i understand what i am trying to convey to the person i am talking to. Which means that if i am playing as a character in a rpg i should understand the intent of all chocies in order to effectively role play.

That's never happened to you in real life ?

You know what it is you want to say. But you don't know how the other person will react.
The point in DA2 Is we don't know what we are going to say before we say it. Because the keywords don't always match the dialogue.

Someone knowing your intent is very bad RP. I'll show you why (don't take this seriously it's just an example).

Your a tool
Your a tool.

Which one would someone find more offensive?

[Nomen Mendax]

MasterSamson88 wrote...

 Threads like these I usually just click the Bioware tag to see what the developers are saying and I must say I'm pleased with how Gaider has been handling things. I also agree with him on the conversation wheel.

I just don't see how it's been dumbed down at all. 

I agree with you (and DG) that it's not dumbing down.  But I still would much prefer a non-paraphrase version.

[Threeparts]

Merced652 wrote...

Yes it is metagaming. You RP like as i described in another thread. With one overreaching event or attitude in mind. Your sole point of reference is "yo i was a slave" so therefore everything is done by your character because you were a slave and its apparently had some huge effect on everything.

Wow. I would respond to this, but I'm kind of at a loss. That's some huge assumptions about me on your part, and I don't appreciate being told by a complete stranger that I'm doin' it wrong. 

Far be it for me to tell you how to RP, but this system forces you in to picking lines not by content(because LOLWHEEL) but by intent because you'll never know what you're actually saying. Thats pretty criminal to me because maybe my character might make an aggressive comment but wouldn't say it so horribly. At least when the intent is unknown and the NPC takes what you thought was an aggressive comment as a joke your character would have to react to that misunderstanding.

If the dialogue was transcribed instead of paraphrased, would you ignore your character's aggressive personality and pick something nice because the mean option was too mean? In that case, is it not still meta-gaming?
Whereas if I, the player, misinterpret the Origins mode of conversation and click an option that is kind rather than cruel, it is not simply a misunderstanding between my character and another, but a lack of clarity with the system itself that is forcing an out-of-character choice on my avatar.

[Wulfram]

Saibh wrote...

You don't hunt him down. You wait for him in the Hightown square, he betrays you, you find him in the Chantry, he says there will be no negotiations, and Isabela kills one of his lackeys. At this point, you've already promised to help Isabela if things go awry--that's why you're there.

Going to the chantry is hunting him down.  It's a fairly straightforward case of murder on Isabela's part.

[Aroya]

MasterSamson88 wrote...

 Threads like these I usually just click the Bioware tag to see what the developers are saying and I must say I'm pleased with how Gaider has been handling things. I also agree with him on the conversation wheel.

I just don't see how it's been dumbed down at all. 

Omg explain this Bioware tag please.  My take on the wheel is that I just wish beyond all wishes that I could see exactly what i was going to say.  Instead of the three words.  I don't care about the symbols or anything.

Modifié par Aroya, 24 février 2011 - 06:04 .

[TGFKAMAdmaX]

Zigzaggy wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...

I just can´t get my head around why it is so bad to have the written phrases match the actual dialogue.

That's because it isn't...when roleplaying it makes a great deal of sense.

However as they have went with a Voiced Protaganist it isn't necersary.Now not only do you only have a tidbit clue as to what you will say.It's alot easier to write for,If only david would be truthfull instead of offering waffle

actaully the new system is more true to life than the old system...

[Adhin]

I totally should of done that Samson. I've been letting some obvious trolls get to me.

[Merced652]

Adhin wrote...
Having a character, a background (background is, granted, pre-provided for you in games), personality, quirks, morals and so forth that guide normal people made up for a character. Making choices and picking responses that best fits what your version of Hawke is - is roleplaying.

You've obviously never RP'd a character that had any of those aforementioned quirks, and seeing intent further limits the small amount of choice you had in terms of RPing. Quite literally all you have now is A, B, and C.

[Gerudan]

Merced652 wrote...

Like how ME2's inventory wasn't gone, just streamlined. 

And it was better that way. It was just annoying to open the inventory after every damn fight or every damn chest, just to look up, if the new weapons mod or ammunition, you just picked up, was slightly better, than the ones, you already had installed. 

[MasterSamson88]

Nomen Mendax wrote...

MasterSamson88 wrote...

 Threads like these I usually just click the Bioware tag to see what the developers are saying and I must say I'm pleased with how Gaider has been handling things. I also agree with him on the conversation wheel.

I just don't see how it's been dumbed down at all. 

I agree with you (and DG) that it's not dumbing down.  But I still would much prefer a non-paraphrase version.

While I don't really see the point since your character would un-paraphrase it anyway, I will say that if they didn't paraphrase on the wheel then they would have to shrink the font to fit it all on the screen.

Thus making more people complain about how they've alienated standard definition television sets. 

[JohnstonMR]

The Big Nothing wrote...

I think it could be improved upon, but on the whole, I like it. It's not as clumsy or random as a sprawling menu; it is an elegant system, for a more civilized age.

This

[Saibh]

Merced652 wrote...

Adhin wrote...
Having a character, a background (background is, granted, pre-provided for you in games), personality, quirks, morals and so forth that guide normal people made up for a character. Making choices and picking responses that best fits what your version of Hawke is - is roleplaying.

You've obviously never RP'd a character that had any of those aforementioned quirks, and seeing intent further limits the small amount of choice you had in terms of RPing. Quite literally all you have now is A, B, and C.

Who says I can't be a, then b, then a, then a, then c? You are not constricted at all, they're simply telling you how you sound now.

If you say something like "Thanks for that", and don't know the tone, it can be anything from sincerity, to sarcasm, to anger, to flirtatious. Being told the tone is not limiting your roleplaying abilities, because you never had that choice to begin with.

[Merced652]

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

TGFKAMAdmaX wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

I'd say this is actually a good example of how much it hasn't changed. To me, I would consider option 1 to be agressive, 2 to be snarky, 3 to be polite, and 4 to be Investigate. And the fact that we perceive the tones of each line so differently means that there is already a case for having intent icons. 

But then you're metagaming based on intent instead of roleplaying your charc... nvm. No one RPs.

I do RP, actually. Quite a lot, both in DA and other games.
But how do you see it as metagaming? If I have a City Elf character whose personality dictates that she would make an aggressive response to a human, but I choose a line that turns out to be more humourous than I'd like, is it really metagaming to reload and choose a different option the next time around? I'd consider it being more true to the character, since I had no voice to indicate if she was saying something I thought would be aggressive in a tone that was actually just sarcastic.
With the intent icons I don't need to go through that process of "oh, crap, I wasn't trying to be funny, I was trying to threaten you!", I can already tell that the tone my character will take is the one I intend, regardless of how other characters respond to her.

Yes it is metagaming. You RP like as i described in another thread. With one overreaching event or attitude in mind. Your sole point of reference is "yo i was a slave" so therefore everything is done by your character because you were a slave and its apparently had some huge effect on everything.

Far be it for me to tell you how to RP, but this system forces you in to picking lines not by content(because LOLWHEEL) but by intent because you'll never know what you're actually saying. Thats pretty criminal to me because maybe my character might make an aggressive comment but wouldn't say it so horribly. At least when the intent is unknown and the NPC takes what you thought was an aggressive comment as a joke your character would have to react to that misunderstanding.

That is overlooking the problems with the old system. because you never knew the intent of the old lines some gamer would make chocies they never intended to which would effectively break the roleplaying.

LOL. That doesn't break the roleplaying, THAT MAKES IT. This is why i'm utterly convinced no one RPs because if so then there is absolutely no way you can say that.

that does break the roleplaying. There were times in the game where i would make a dialouge choice and apparently my chracter (that i was role playing as) would say the given dialouge in a diifferent manner than i intended. Now i dont know about you, but in the real world i have full control over my mind. so when i say something i know the intent of what im saying. i understand what i am trying to convey to the person i am talking to. Which means that if i am playing as a character in a rpg i should understand the intent of all chocies in order to effectively role play.

So no one has every missunderstood something you were saying to them or misintepreted your intentions? Wondering what planet you live on.

i never said that i have never been misinterpreted by someone. i said i never misinterpreted MYSELF. i should not be confused by the intent of the protaginist i am trying to role play. i should be allowed to try and convey my intent as best as possible. which the new system is much better at.

But without that, the NPC will never misinterpret what you're saying unless the writer specifically writes it that way.

[thecomichero]

Daniteh wrote...

 I love it, forget everyone else, like Mike said, you wouldn't always know exactly what you were choosing, like for example, i actually recruiting Loghain by accident thinking that it was going to just let him go free. Then alistar hated me, even in awakening.

i agree, i tend to be sarcastic in real life and had trouble figureing out what was sarcastic and what was blatantly beligerant in origins as well as my first playthrough of ME

[JohnstonMR]

keginkc wrote...

It's hard to tell with so little to go on, but I think it might be an improvement over the Mass Effect system. I like it because it leaves some mystery in terms of what the character is going to say. You know the jist, the tone of it, but you don't quite know for sure what he's (you're) going to say. It makes the cinematic sequences a little more interesting, and to me makes the game more engrossing.

And you can call me an ADD kid if you want, but I'm almost 40, have been playing BioWare games for literally years and have always found blocks of text in video games somewhat tedious. I find that I'm much less likely to lose interest/tune out/get bored and think it's time for a break with a system like this.

What I'm curious about is how noticeable the lack of a persuasion skill will be.

QFT