945 réponses à ce sujet

[Dansayshi]

Great news for the majority of us with an internet connection.



I do agree that they should allow some other sort of means to "activate" the game should you not have access to the internet tho, all that does is encourage cracking, rather than taking part in any EA / bioware service. Its also worth noting that cracking is "legal".



Thanks bioware, for not going down the Ubisoft route. Thats just complete bollocks what they did.

[Erika T]

Dansayshi wrote...

I do agree that they should allow some other sort of means to "activate" the game should you not have access to the internet tho, all that does is encourage cracking, rather than taking part in any EA / bioware service. Its also worth noting that cracking is "legal".

Thanks bioware, for not going down the Ubisoft route. Thats just complete bollocks what they did.

what did ubisoft do?

what i dont understand is - why do i even need to activate?  9i dont mind, of course, if/when i can ) - whats the point>  i went to the store, i paid £30+, you took money from my debit card, what else do you want from me?

[Dansayshi]

Erika T wrote...

Dansayshi wrote...

I do agree that they should allow some other sort of means to "activate" the game should you not have access to the internet tho, all that does is encourage cracking, rather than taking part in any EA / bioware service. Its also worth noting that cracking is "legal".

Thanks bioware, for not going down the Ubisoft route. Thats just complete bollocks what they did.

what did ubisoft do?

what i dont understand is - why do i even need to activate?  9i dont mind, of course, if/when i can ) - whats the point>  i went to the store, i paid £30+, you took money from my debit card, what else do you want from me?

To play their games, u had to be connected to the internet at all times. Should your internet shut down, the game would lock you out, even in the middle of a level, until it was once again connected to the Ubisoft servers. Ironically, the Ubisoft servers also go down just like every other peice of hardware, hence, while they are down, you cant play your game.

They;ve softened it a little bit now, it only looks for an internet connection at checkpoints, when you start the game etc. I dont know about this year, but thats  how it was last year.

It was just too intrusive, especially since DRM doesnt really work.

They've reverted this now

[riccaborto]

I think, that the ones having a good connection don't need to buy the retail, as they can easilly download the game.



But those not having a connection, or a bad one, are the ones buying the retail: so asking them continuos checks is quite a stupid thing I believe...



Good thing BioWare and EA finally understood that.

[Sblade]

Glaucon wrote...

Sblade wrote...

kgersen wrote...

Tricky_Rich wrote...
Err...except that SecuROM as a program, is an evil little rootkit that can destroy your PC!

I hate securom as much as anybody but it's not a rootkit, not anymore than Steam or any other DRM scheme.

It's a urban legend that originated from some peoples not knowing how rootkit revealer tools work.

Mark Rusinovich posted on unearthed rootkits article:

Rootkits are Software that hides itself or other objects, such as files, processes,
and Registry keys, from view of standard diagnostic, administrative, and
security software.

Now ask yourself if you can detect Securom without notification, and specially in early implementations (2008 and lower approx) and answer yourself if it enters the definition or not.

I never heard Mark saying that his rootkit revealer detecting Securom was a bug.....

Aside from the philosophycal debate of this. What is commonly accepted is that Securom is invasive


And as for DA2 DRM.... the Release Control technology, where comes from?

A root kit operates at Ring 0 of the kernel.  SecuRom operates at Ring 3.  Ergo not a root kit.  SecuRom was poorly rolled out without first being heavily tested across platforms (nothing new there).  Current implementations of DRM differ only slightly in how SecuRom operates.

I don't wish to be rude to you, but perpetuating untruths helps no one.

You sure ALL the implementations of Securom operates at Ring3?. Although the correct term is highest privileges possible for Ring0

You are mixing potatoes with speed and scripts a bit here. I was pointing at certain article published by Mark Rusinovich, programmer of Rootkit Revealer. That article doesn´t mention the rings. Mentions general behaviour.

In short: I care no longer how securom operates in "ring terms". I care if it hides itself or other objects, such as files, processes, and Registry keys, from view of standard diagnostic, administrative, and security software.

I´m not affirming or denying Glaucon´s sentence, but I´m giving more info so each user makes its own opinion

My opinion is known centuries ago, so I won´t repeat myself

[Voods07]

 No disc in the drive for retail?!?!

WIN!

This has been one of the reasons why I havent bought many retail copies of games(mainly bought through Steam or EADM).

Modifié par Voods07, 26 février 2011 - 03:49 .

[kirkonacid]

That is... amazing!

[AlexMBrennan]

No disc in the drive for retail?!?!

WIN!

Why is that? Do you believe that Steam/EADM/whatever servers will be around for all eternity whilst the game DVD may spontaneously self-destruct if BW/EA/whoever decides to discontinue support for a game?

[StormbringerGT]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Below are the details of the final version of DRM that will be used with Dragon Age 2 for PC and Mac. 

I gotta ask, how much money does it take to set this up and run it? Its stupid that you have to spend additional money to protect your media. Not stupid that you do, but stupid that you even have to.

[StormbringerGT]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

No disc in the drive for retail?!?!
WIN!

Why is that? Do you believe that Steam/EADM/whatever servers will be around for all eternity whilst the game DVD may spontaneously self-destruct if BW/EA/whoever decides to discontinue support for a game?

Do I believe I will play it for eternity? I loved Baldur's Gate, but I moved on from that game so long ago. With the amount of games I own and the little free time I have I can't really keep playing the same games, especially ones I'm going to have to jump through hoops to get it to run on a modern rig anyway.

[Neleothesze]

Glaucon wrote...

Jonp382 wrote...
What happens if one of these 'background' checks fails for whatever reason? Or if the internet goes out while we are playing?

Worst case scenario is that you lose any in-game progress not saved and will have to reload:  As long as you have made the initial one time check (PC) you should be free to play off line.  You can prevent the repeat checks from occurring by disabling your network connections during before game play -- offline game mode if you like.  That's how understand it.

The background checks don't matter. The way I see it it's like your profile having a tiny newsfeed if you chose 'online' gameplay. I think the emphasis should be on tiny... 
As for Steam... Have any of the people complaining about Steam ever played a game downloaded from Steam? Or just getting a vague idea from smth they read about it on the internet? I have Shivering Isles + Knights of the Nine ( Oblivion expansion and DLC pack ) from Steam and a couple of days ago my internet failed halfway through my gameplay. I wouldn't even have noticed if I didn't alt-tab to see why my youtube stopped playing. Nothing happened at all. I didn't lose any progress at all. Why would things be any different with DA:2 ?

On the final version of the DRM, what can I say.... we won! (j/k) I have occasional internet downtimes (like a few days ago) and a regular check once every few days would have pissed me off. If I'm buying the game I'm cool with a one-time check. Even an internet check since odds are I'm gonna pick the Steam version anyway... It's like the old "let's write the omfg-long number and letter code" - a one-time thing. You checked that it's my game now I'll be offline for the rest of my life if I feel like it.
Glad to have this info, I can preorder now.

Modifié par Indolence, 26 février 2011 - 04:50 .

[huwie]

StormbringerGT wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

No disc in the drive for retail?!?!
WIN!

Why is that? Do you believe that Steam/EADM/whatever servers will be around for all eternity whilst the game DVD may spontaneously self-destruct if BW/EA/whoever decides to discontinue support for a game?

Do I believe I will play it for eternity? I loved Baldur's Gate, but I moved on from that game so long ago. With the amount of games I own and the little free time I have I can't really keep playing the same games, especially ones I'm going to have to jump through hoops to get it to run on a modern rig anyway.

BG actually runs fine on Win7-64, I know because I reinstalled it the other day to play through again. Online activation would probably have scuppered that, in the absence of a patch from Bioware to bypass the requirement. Hence my (and others') interest in knowing if Bioware has plans to provide such a patch, in due course, for DA2.

[Twaddlefish]

Bioware, I'm really happy for yo and i'mma let you finish, but Assassin's Creed 2 had the best DRM of all time. OF ALL TIME!

[Mage One]

huwie wrote...

BG actually runs fine on Win7-64, I know because I reinstalled it the other day to play through again. Online activation would probably have scuppered that, in the absence of a patch from Bioware to bypass the requirement. Hence my (and others') interest in knowing if Bioware has plans to provide such a patch, in due course, for DA2.

Bioware has said they have sunset plans in place for the DRM to be patched out of all of their games.  It has been noted, though, that Mass Effect, for example, has yet to receive such a patch, so make of that what you will.

I have a question.  In the EULA it mentions the DRM "may interfere with certain applications, such as debuggers, when such software could potentially be used to circumvent the access-control technology."  Is that a, "We don't see a way this would really happen, but we're putting it in there just in case,"/"This might happen if such a program actively tries to circumvent the DRM, so we'd better put it in there," sort of clause, or is there something in the DRM that can actively monitor/interfere with other programs running on a PC?

Also, you skipped my question regarding second-hand sales/gifting of DA2.  Most people seem to be operating under the assumption that the game is in fact, as the EULA suggests, not transferable.  Could you verify whether or not this is the case?  Thank you.

[TheLiterator]

Twaddlefish wrote...

Bioware, I'm really happy for yo and i'mma let you finish, but Assassin's Creed 2 had the best DRM of all time. OF ALL TIME!

qft

[The Halfman]

Please let me cheer on bioware, even though i will not be able to play (screwy network firewall) it is heartening to see DRM reduction.

[Seifz]

I don't understand this system.

1.  It requires online authentication even though it's a single-player game.  Why?

2.  You can install it on as many PCs as you want and you can play it on as many PCs as you want, but you can only activate 5 in a 24-hour window.  Why?

3.  If you have an Internet connection, it will re-authenticate every so often (doesn't say how often).  If you don't, it won't and that's just fine.  Why?

In regards to the first point, I understand that we must tie our serial code to our EA account.  I'm actually okay with that since I'd need to do it for DLC and entitlements anyway.  Is there a system in place that allows me to unregister my game so that I can resell it?

In regards to the second point, why bother?  What exactly is this trying to prevent?  Since the game is already tied to an EA account, why does it matter how many PCs that player plays on?  Additionally, how are you enforcing this rule?  What information is EA collecting to determine which PC I'm using?  I've asked this question repeatedly in three topics now and I've never received a response.  That's entirely unacceptable to me.

In regards to the third point, why do some people need to frequently re-authenticate while others do not?  Do I seriously need to disable my Internet connection before I launch the game just to avoid this (obviously) pointless check in?  Can I just block DA2 with my firewall or will the game refuse to play because it knows that my network connection is active and it can't contact EA's server?

Modifié par Seifz, 26 février 2011 - 10:28 .

[Hedera]

Seifz wrote...

Repeated authentication checks are not acceptable to me. Disabling my Internet connection to prevent these obviously unnecessary checks is also not acceptable to me. Thus, the only option appears to still be a cracked executable.

I don't understand this system.

My understanding of this is that it checks in the background IF and only if you are online.  No password required and no pop-up menu thng.  If you paid for the game, it won't impact your experience at all.  However, if you are worried about unnecessary data transfer in you internet bill, I can see the issue.  If you just don't like that it checks, that's your problem.  *shrugs*

[AlexMBrennan]

It requires online authentication even though it's a single-player game. Why?

Because you need to verify that the product key is not already in use.

You can install it on as many PCs as you want and you can play it on as many PCs as you want, but you can only activate 5 in a 24-hour window. Why?

To make life simple for BW - they don't have to provide a way to un-register game installations (difficult e.g. if the hard drive is destroyed). You effectively buy a license to install the game on 5 computers (which is generous; most software can only be installed on a single machine at any given time - e.g. MS Windows, Mathematica).

[Seifz]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

It requires online authentication even though it's a single-player game. Why?

Because you need to verify that the product key is not already in use.

Could you explain this better?  How does online authentication verify that a product key is not in use?  Tying the game to our EA account does this, but authenticating the game every time we install doesn't seem to add anything.  Regardless, the system imposes an extra requirement that would otherwise not be necessary (Internet access).  DA:O was just fine without it.

You can install it on as many PCs as you want and you can play it on as many PCs as you want, but you can only activate 5 in a 24-hour window. Why?

To make life simple for BW - they don't have to provide a way to un-register game installations (difficult e.g. if the hard drive is destroyed). You effectively buy a license to install the game on 5 computers (which is generous; most software can only be installed on a single machine at any given time - e.g. MS Windows, Mathematica).

No, that's not correct.  The license appears to allow us to install the game on as many systems as we want.  The limitation says that we can only install the game on five systems in any 24-hour window.  The limitation seems pointless given that we can install the game on any number of machines.

[Seifz]

cgrimm54 wrote...

Seifz wrote...

Repeated authentication checks are not acceptable to me. Disabling my Internet connection to prevent these obviously unnecessary checks is also not acceptable to me. Thus, the only option appears to still be a cracked executable.

I don't understand this system.

My understanding of this is that it checks in the background IF and only if you are online.  No password required and no pop-up menu thng.  If you paid for the game, it won't impact your experience at all.  However, if you are worried about unnecessary data transfer in you internet bill, I can see the issue.  If you just don't like that it checks, that's your problem.  *shrugs*

Let's say I install the game and go through the one-time authentication process to verify that it's legal (which is ridiculous, but I'll go with it).  At this point, I can disconnect from the Internet and never re-verify the legality of my game.  Thus, the DRM requires only one authentication check.

If that's the case, why is the game re-authenticating for anyone with an Internet connection?  This isn't necessary for the DRM (as I explained above), so why is it happening?  More importantly, what data is EA collecting?

I'd like to know if I can just firewall DA2 to prevent these extra checks.

[AlanC9]

Seifz wrote...

If that's the case, why is the game re-authenticating for anyone with an Internet connection?  This isn't necessary for the DRM (as I explained above), so why is it happening?  More importantly, what data is EA collecting?

Presumably the data they talk about collecting in the EULA and the Privacy Policy.

[Mage One]

Seifz wrote...

[...] How does online authentication verify that a product key is not in use?  Tying the game to our EA account does this, but authenticating the game every time we install doesn't seem to add anything.  Regardless, the system imposes an extra requirement that would otherwise not be necessary (Internet access).  DA:O was just fine without it.

[...]

The license appears to allow us to install the game on as many systems as we want.  The limitation says that we can only install the game on five systems in any 24-hour window.  The limitation seems pointless given that we can install the game on any number of machines.

Actually you can install it on as many PCs you want as often as you want.  You can only play it on five systems within any 24 hour period as a check against allowing it to install it on as many PCs as you want as often as you like.  The check-in that occurs when you're connected to the internet, then, is to check whether it's exceeded it's five systems within 24 hours limit, which, again, is for playing, not installing.