945 réponses à ce sujet

[GigantKraecker]

I've played with all dlc origins but I had to delete my save of golems of amgarak so I only had my game was by
origin = awaikening = witch hunt
so I played amgarak of golems was then re-imported my chain so I'm in DA II
old origins = old awaikening = new golems of amgarak = old witch hunt
do is work or i must play witch hunt with my new of golems of amgarak save file

[xexys]

Dirwulf wrote...

Eag07 wrote...

Securom installation leaves traces [...]

I did your test. I have the Steam version. The last time anything was written to this file was 11/10. The only other date in the file in 4/09. So doesn't that mean DA2 isn't using it?

I have the Steam version myself, and I can't find any references to SecuROM
being installed. (Registry entries  / SecuROM analysis tool).

If it's not really being used, and truly is some form of "release control", wouldn't you maybe go with a different vendor that offered a similar solution, and not use a Sony product that presents itself in such a manner that makes it sorta look like the same DRM that caused a gamer meltdown and legal troubles not so long ago? That's just kinda askin' for drama on EA's part.

Who knows. Regardless, it doesn't appear to be on my PC with the Steam version of the game installed.

Modifié par xexys, 12 mars 2011 - 04:15 .

[Zulhardy]

They used Securom Timecheck only. So how is that detrimental? Registry entries are need to make sure the timecheck program works.

Man, I hope next time when Bioware releases a game at 12midnight exactly, No preloading and stuff like that. Can't wait for the ****ing to start when people's downloads stall. HAHA.

[Fernando Melo]

We've already talked about this here, but I'll re-iterate again...

We don't use Securom DRM.
We use a release control product which is made by the same team, but is a completely different product.


The constrast between the two couldn't be greater - it is night and day.

For those not aware, the hype/hysteria around 'Securom' is tied to Securom DRM, a separate product.  This is typically used by many games for disc based drm and can be used for digital as well.  This DRM installs several protected files and registry entries and as part of protecting itself and makes it very hard for a person to manually attempt to remove these - amongst other reasons (as i'm over-simplifying for brevity) that product is essentially what players are concerned about.

The release control software we use does none of this.  As we've said before it simply does a check of the date against an online server when you run the game.  If the street date has passed, it allows you to play and removes itself.   We use this and only this, and not the Securom DRM.

Someone also pm'd me that apparently it leaves behind a couple library files in the temp directory, which are named securom or their signature when examined mentions securom and that this was mentioned on an external site claiming proof that we've snuck securom in. 

I haven't been able to check these files personally yet, but as these are inert files sitting in the temp folder after removing itself, I still don't see the issue.  Most developers (including ourselves) re-use libraries we create all the time.  These are likely common utility files (e.g. contact a server) which do not make any sense to re-write from scratch when you have a perfectly usable generic library that already works.

The fact it leaves some inert files behind (while not great practice) is common with nearly every piece of software on windows.  Again, the files are inert and you can simply delete them manually - sometimes you just can't remove everything as files may be in use as part of the removal step of the program itself (something is running to do the removal).  

But to go from that to say that we've installed Securom DRM is like saying because DA2 uses common Microsoft libraries, we have clearly gone and snuck in Games for Windows Live now.  That's the kind of 'jump' in assumptions we're talking about.

As for the site claiming this (again, I admit I haven't had the opportunity to check yet - I did a while back but just got 403 errors on the page), if that is what they are claiming then sadly they are doing a great disservice to their audience.  Anyone that has ever actually used/installed SecuROM DRM and this, and is reasonably impartial in their assesment (ie. is not jumping to conclusion because they see the word 'securom' on the pop up) should be able to clearly tell the two things apart - and appreciate how far apart they actually are.


Incidentally, since the game is now unlocked world wide, everyone should have this auto-removed already anyway.

In any case, if you are still concerned about the files left behind in the temp folder, then either clear out your temp folder or let me know and I'll dig them up once back in the office and provide the file by file names so you can manually delete these.  (Worth noting that if we were actually using Securom DRM, this would not be possible to do).

F.

[Anakha56]

Thank you for the response Fernando, much appreciated.

Incidentally, since the game is now unlocked world wide, everyone should have this auto-removed already anyway.

Why is it in the majority of cases these files are not removed automatically?

In any case, if you are still concerned about the files left behind in the temp folder, then either clear out your temp folder or let me know and I'll dig them up once back in the office and provide the file by file names so you can manually delete these. (Worth noting that if we were actually using Securom DRM, this would not be possible to do).

Does the same apply for the Securom registry keys? Will the game function 100% 3 months down the line because I removed every trace of Securom?

[Garak2]

A time release program is Digital Restrictions Management.

[Fernando Melo]

Anakha56 wrote...
Why is it in the majority of cases these files are not removed automatically?

As mentioned above, it could be they were still in use as part of the removal step.  I don't know for sure as we didn't make this.  But the fact they are benign, and residing in the temp folder which are open to deletion/clean up at any time by the user, points to this being the usual stragglers that many programs leave behind as opposed to a purposeful thing.

Anakha56 wrote...
Does the same apply for the Securom registry keys? Will the game function 100% 3 months down the line because I removed every trace of Securom?

If there are new keys with a name/reference to securom then i'm guessing they are also re-used/shared across their products.  But the fact that the Securom DRM product isn't installed, and the release control would have removed itself, then these too will be 'dead' reg entries.

I'll look into the reg entries though.  If after removing itself these are still there then that may be something we can clean up as part of uninstalling DA2. 

Similar to the files, if that is a genuine concern for folks (and are not comfortable removing these manually from registry) we can also look at a quick remove util as well.

F.

[Kloreep]

Thanks for posting Fernando.

Fernando Melo wrote...

But to go from that to say that we've installed Securom DRM is like saying because DA2 uses common Microsoft libraries, we have clearly gone and snuck in Games for Windows Live now.  That's the kind of 'jump' in assumptions we're talking about.

As for the site claiming this (again, I admit I haven't had the opportunity to check yet - I did a while back but just got 403 errors on the page), if that is what they are claiming then sadly they are doing a great disservice to their audience.  Anyone that has ever actually used/installed SecuROM DRM and this, and is reasonably impartial in their assesment (ie. is not jumping to conclusion because they see the word 'securom' on the pop up) should be able to clearly tell the two things apart - and appreciate how far apart they actually are.

In defense of Reclaim Your Game, the site that made the original post, their statement of the facts regarding DA2 are correct and considered: DA2 activation leaves some files in the temp folder; these files show up as being SecuROM-related on a number of counts (file signatures, and also according to DRM scanning utilities like Protection ID or Sony's own SecuROM Diagnostic Tool).

RYG does get hyperbolic from there I'm afraid, when they compare these facts to the statements in the DRM FAQ on this forum. But RYG does provide good information on which people can make their own judgments (like myself ).

You can still see their article in Google's cache here if you want to check it out. The news sites that are running with this, unfortunately, seem to be taking the "OMG it has teh securomz!!11!!" tack. But that does not live up to the sophistication of RYG's original article, even if the tenors are a bit similar.

[Anakha56]

@ Fernando thank you for the response. When I get home much later I shall remove it all. In my case this is on a fresh Win7 x64 install with no other games installed, so this Securom folder and reg keys came from this game alone. I shall remove them and see what happens from there .

[Kloreep]

Anakha56 wrote...

@ Fernando thank you for the response. When I get home much later I shall remove it all. In my case this is on a fresh Win7 x64 install with no other games installed, so this Securom folder and reg keys came from this game alone. I shall remove them and see what happens from there .

So does this mean you have confirmed that you have reg keys? Or just that you expect them to be there?

I have yet to see confirmation from anyone with a previously SecuROM-free machine that DA2 has in fact installed anything SecuROM related. (Unless you count those files that are put in the temp folder and left to rot.) So if you have confirmed that reg keys or the like are actually installed, not just that a few files get copied, that would be important news.

[metalfenix]

So, that's it? Fernando, the registry entries and the files on the temp folder of the user are only remnants of the program, so we can delete them (the reg entries and the files) and no harm/reappear on our systems?

I don't have any trace of securom on my PC, and I expect to keep it that way (that's why I play most of my games on consoles).

[Anakha56]

I can confirm that this is a fresh Windows x64 install and that I have reg keys that say Securom. No other game has been installed. Drive died Wednesday, new install Thursday evening, DA2 install straight after Win7 install and that is how the machine is currently set. Checked the registry this morning and I have Securom entries wish I could get a screenshot but I am at work for the whole day...

[metalfenix]

Anakha56 wrote...

I can confirm that this is a fresh Windows x64 install and that I have reg keys that say Securom. No other game has been installed. Drive died Wednesday, new install Thursday evening, DA2 install straight after Win7 install and that is how the machine is currently set. Checked the registry this morning and I have Securom entries wish I could get a screenshot but I am at work for the whole day...

Please Anakha, keep us informed, I'm very interested on your results too.

[Kloreep]

Edit: Crosspost with Anakha. Never mind, it sounds like things are a bit more complicated.

metalfenix wrote...

So, that's it? Fernando, the registry entries and the files on the temp folder of the user are only remnants of the program, so we can delete them (the reg entries and the files) and no harm/reappear on our systems?

Again, I'd be interested if someone who certified their system SecuROM-free prior to DA2 could look and see whether there are any registry entries, or anything at all outside the Temp folder, left around by it. If the Release Control software is so self-contained, I would expect there are no registry entries made by it - at least, nothing for SecuROM; there may be some related to DA2 itself.

Modifié par Kloreep, 12 mars 2011 - 05:59 .

[Anakha56]

I shall do in fact let me get the fiance on the line and try and talk her through the process . Lets see what happens .

[Fernando Melo]

Kloreep wrote...
In
defense of Reclaim Your Game, the site that made the original post,
their statement of the facts regarding DA2 are correct and considered:
DA2 activation leaves some files in the temp folder; these files show up
as being SecuROM-related on a number of counts (file signatures, and
also according to DRM scanning utilities like Protection ID or Sony's
own SecuROM Diagnostic Tool).

RYG does get hyperbolic from there
I'm afraid, when they compare these facts to the statements in the DRM
FAQ on this forum. But RYG does provide good information on which people
can make their own judgments (like myself ).

You can still see their article in Google's cache here
if you want to check it out. The news sites that are running with this,
unfortunately, seem to be taking the "OMG it has teh securomz!!11!!"
tack. But that does not live up to the sophistication of RYG's original
article, even if the tenors are a bit similar.

Thanks for the links!  Hmm, I'm still not seeing on google but i'll keep trying - now i'm genuinely curious.

Looking at your post though, I can see if we're examining at that level (files left behind as it doesn't clean up after itself) where our info varies. 

As for those tools detecting securom - I don't know for sure until I try it myself, but I am guessing they are actually looking for how the file is signed, or have code patterns they match again and seeing these files are likely common to both products it would come up as positive.

Fundamentally (and I think your post alludes to this), for anyone who has installed an actual securom drm game before - that is a very different product from what we're talking about here.

Anakha56 wrote...

@ Fernando thank you for the response. When I get home much later I shall remove it all. In my case this is on a fresh Win7 x64 install with no other games installed, so this Securom folder and reg keys came from this game alone. I shall remove them and see what happens from there .

Definitely let us know.

F.

[Lux]

Fernando Melo wrote...

The release control software we use does none of this.  As we've said before it simply does a check of the date against an online server when you run the game.  If the street date has passed, it allows you to play and removes itself.   We use this and only this, and not the Securom DRM.

SecuROM has a really bad rep. It is unfortunate that the company hired to make the date check still uses that name for things other than the DRM. For someone on the inside, this might be nothing. For players aware of the name "SecuROM", how could they not make the connection? Even usual detection tools indicate the left over from the date check as the real article.

It would help if in the upcoming patch the left overs could be removed.

Modifié par Merkar, 12 mars 2011 - 06:37 .

[Anakha56]

One thing I know for sure, I need to send my future wife on a computer crash course .

Right we have deleted the %temp%mtka_tmp folder and all files within. We have deleted this registry key [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\Software\\SecuROM] I did make a backup just to be safe. We then launched the game, it connected to my account and we were able to resume my last saved game. My character was moved around by the fiance so all in all everything appears to be working fine. However please be aware this was just a load and launch not a full game session because I dont need my fiance to kill my character . It will need a full game session to be sure that there are no issues.

[Anakha56]

Lol my apologies for the double post. My first one did not appear to have gone through so I redid it only to find it did go through . Could one of the mods please delete the first one? Thank you

[Fernando Melo]

Merkar wrote...

SecuROM has a really bad rep. It is unfortunate that the company hired to make the date check still uses that name for things other than the DRM. For someone on the inside, this might be nothing. For players aware of the name "SecuROM", how could they not make the connection? Even usual detection tools indicate the left over from the date check as the real article.

The more I look at it, I think what they've done is make it so both products play nice together if you happen to have both.

So if you have a game that uses SecuromDRM, let's say it creates entries in registry: A, B and C
And same game or other uses release control, it either makes the same entry B above or uses it if the SecuromDRM already exists from another game.

Or you can layer the two products on top of one another.

Regardless, I agree - given the whole hoopla over this confusion, we should look for even mention of the name if we go this route in future.

Merkar wrote...
It would help if in the upcoming patch the left overs could be removed.

I'm away from a PC that I can load DA2 on to over this weekend - but now I'm curious.  If you uninstall DA2, do we still leave the files/reg entry there?  Or is it removed?

If they are still there, then this is something I can ask us to look into for patch - not next patch (1.01 is already available as beta test and we hope to release it very shortly - e.g. Mon), but will look into next one.

F.

[Garak2]

First patch is about ready to go. Cool.

[Lux]

Fernando Melo wrote...

I'm away from a PC that I can load DA2 on to over this weekend - but now I'm curious.  If you uninstall DA2, do we still leave the files/reg entry there?  Or is it removed?

If they are still there, then this is something I can ask us to look into for patch - not next patch (1.01 is already available as beta test and we hope to release it very shortly - e.g. Mon), but will look into next one.

F.

RYG people have indicated that the reg entries remain even after the game is removed.

Considering that the date check is well integrated with their other product, removing the reg entries could create problems with other software using the DRM. Being that the case, a separate fix might be less problematic.

Thanks for your input Fernando, as always.

[Fernando Melo]

Merkar wrote...

Fernando Melo wrote...

I'm away from a PC that I can load DA2 on to over this weekend - but now I'm curious.  If you uninstall DA2, do we still leave the files/reg entry there?  Or is it removed?

If they are still there, then this is something I can ask us to look into for patch - not next patch (1.01 is already available as beta test and we hope to release it very shortly - e.g. Mon), but will look into next one.

F.

RYG people have indicated that the reg entries remain even after the game is removed.

Considering that the date check is well integrated with their other product, removing the reg entries could create problems with other software using the DRM. Being that the case, a separate fix might be less problematic.

Thanks for your input Fernando, as always.

Ok, will get our guys looking at that.  I think you're right though, if we did that we could end up breaking other products that are using the drm version.  We'll likely need to get Sony to fix that on their end.

In the meantime, we could still look at providing manual instructions for removing this.

F.

[xxxestaxxx]

Ok, so i just read about the drm and Im kinda sad. Im in Iraq right now and will be till the summer, wonder job perks and such, and I had DA2 ordered and sent to me out here.  But if Im not mistaken Ill have to now find some way to get internet for my personal pc (100 a month to get a bastardized version of the net in our housing units which is why Im using the net cafes) to play the game?  Lame .  Please tell me there is a way I can still play the game without the one time validation? Or am I limited to the options of drop 100 clams for the internet for a one time validation or let the game collect the ample dust of this enviroment till I get back home?

[Synthetic Frost]

I personally hate all forms of DRM. And SecuROM is one of the WORST forms of DRM out there right now. It has bricked my PC more than once. But aside from that, I'm just sick of the pirates getting a better product than the paying customers.

SecuROM is impossible to get off a machine without formatting the drive, buggy as hell, and is just overall badly written software. Goodbye Bioware. You will not be missed.