945 réponses à ce sujet

[Sblade]

sgriffin0810 wrote...

Still trying to justify the outright deception on Bioware and EA's part regarding their use of Securom?

Check this out: http://www.reclaimyo...ol-Dragon-Age-2

I think you wanted to post THIS link

Won´t repeat myself what I said in the other thread.

Regards to all
Sblade

[Kloreep]

Thandal NLyman wrote...

So... inquiring minds want to know.  What game was it?!?

If you're concerned about 3rd party DRM on Steam, definitely give this site a look.

[Fizzbangblade]

I did 3 things that have helped me get the game to "work"

I updated my Graphics Card Driver Software

I installed the patch 1.01 {Beta i think}

I Registered Dragon Age 2

However, i still have an issue. Even when i leave myself logged in to this Bioware Social Network, i cannot get my game to "login"........

So i cannot get access to my Premium Content, all of which i know i have from my Profile / Registered Game Content.

Am i seriously expected to disable my Firewall ?

[Seifz]

Fizzbangblade wrote...

I did 3 things that have helped me get the game to "work"

I updated my Graphics Card Driver Software

I installed the patch 1.01 {Beta i think}

I Registered Dragon Age 2

However, i still have an issue. Even when i leave myself logged in to this Bioware Social Network, i cannot get my game to "login"........

So i cannot get access to my Premium Content, all of which i know i have from my Profile / Registered Game Content.

Am i seriously expected to disable my Firewall ?

Lucky!  The patch doesn't work for me.

Anyway, you'll probably need to add a firewall exception for DA2.  You should be able to remove that exception once you've downloaded, installed, and authenticated your DLC.  According to the official posts, the game won't ever need to reauthenticate if you play offline.  We'll see.

[holysword2099]

I got a small question. If I un-register the game from my account, is the game sellable to a friend of mine?

[Seifz]

I asked the BioWare folks about unregistering and reselling my game multiple times before release and they chose to ignore the question every time. The absurdly long "contracts" that you agree to state that your serial can only be used once, but I seriously doubt that they could really enforce that in court if you challenged them.

[DoubleXz]

nice, great work!

[Connect]

Stop with this catastrophic online-based DRM and get back to DISC CHECKS for Mass Effect 3. Everyone was happy with Mass Effect 2 and its implementation. Disc check for retail, with the possibility to register the key with EADM in case of disc breaking.

[didymos1120]

TacPlay wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

hotedge wrote...

can any one give me the link for the SecuRom Removal Tool

Yes:

https://support.secu...emovaltool.html

Just a tip: Google would have been much, much faster than waiting around for someone on here to do it.

FWI, I have used that tool and it works for most of it, but it leave behind rouge reg keys and values. May want to look into getting rid of those too.

Yeah, there actually seems to be a bug with it: it's supposed to pop-up a "You must reboot" message if you tell it remove all the registry keys, but sometimes it won't. I had the same thing with the reg keys not going away, so I re-ran the tool and got the reboot message the second time.  After rebooting, they were removed.

Modifié par didymos1120, 17 mars 2011 - 10:41 .

[TacPlay]

didymos1120 wrote...

TacPlay wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

hotedge wrote...

can any one give me the link for the SecuRom Removal Tool

Yes:

https://support.secu...emovaltool.html

Just a tip: Google would have been much, much faster than waiting around for someone on here to do it.

FWI, I have used that tool and it works for most of it, but it leave behind rouge reg keys and values. May want to look into getting rid of those too.

Yeah, there actually seems to be a bug with it: it's supposed to pop-up a "You must reboot" message if you tell it remove all the registry keys, but sometimes it won't. I had the same thing with the reg keys not going away, so I re-ran the tool and got the reboot message the second time.  After rebooting, they were removed.

Not all of them are removed even on a reboot. Not trying to start a flame war with ya, just trying to give the info. It all depends on the game also. Often there are keys left trying to call some dlls or rename some files.

[DocRemo]

So if the insidious DRM known as SecuRom is present after installing DA2, just where EXACTLY is the executable file that launches the program? WHERE is it and how does it affect my computer? To all you "computer experts" who have nothing better to do than complain about how you were lied to, now's the time to show how intelligent you are. Where do I look on my computer (running XP) to find this phantom program? My install of DA2 is running fine. I don't have to insert a disk to play and I get no messages popping up saying, "WARNING! Your computer has just been corrupted by SecuRom." If any of the previous posters demeaning Bioware can't answer these questions, I suggest that you refrain from corrupting these forums with your mindless speculations.

[Sblade]

You must live in another world Doc.

Securom is only on the Release Check. After Securom checks the date, there is no more Securom on DA2. (well some files and some registry entries, but they are not used with a successful date check)

As for where do you have to look for finding Securom. Check my signature.

I would answer your question directly, but the tone of your posts smells prejudices, so I´m not going to give you the instant gratification.

If you really want to learn where they are. Read our article.

Regards

[Sen4lifE]

Fernando Melo wrote...

We've already talked about this here, but I'll re-iterate again...

We don't use Securom DRM.
We use a release control product which is made by the same team, but is a completely different product.


The constrast between the two couldn't be greater - it is night and day.

For those not aware, the hype/hysteria around 'Securom' is tied to Securom DRM, a separate product.  This is typically used by many games for disc based drm and can be used for digital as well.  This DRM installs several protected files and registry entries and as part of protecting itself and makes it very hard for a person to manually attempt to remove these - amongst other reasons (as i'm over-simplifying for brevity) that product is essentially what players are concerned about.

The release control software we use does none of this.  As we've said before it simply does a check of the date against an online server when you run the game.  If the street date has passed, it allows you to play and removes itself.   We use this and only this, and not the Securom DRM.

Someone also pm'd me that apparently it leaves behind a couple library files in the temp directory, which are named securom or their signature when examined mentions securom and that this was mentioned on an external site claiming proof that we've snuck securom in. 

I haven't been able to check these files personally yet, but as these are inert files sitting in the temp folder after removing itself, I still don't see the issue.  Most developers (including ourselves) re-use libraries we create all the time.  These are likely common utility files (e.g. contact a server) which do not make any sense to re-write from scratch when you have a perfectly usable generic library that already works.

The fact it leaves some inert files behind (while not great practice) is common with nearly every piece of software on windows.  Again, the files are inert and you can simply delete them manually - sometimes you just can't remove everything as files may be in use as part of the removal step of the program itself (something is running to do the removal).  

But to go from that to say that we've installed Securom DRM is like saying because DA2 uses common Microsoft libraries, we have clearly gone and snuck in Games for Windows Live now.  That's the kind of 'jump' in assumptions we're talking about.

As for the site claiming this (again, I admit I haven't had the opportunity to check yet - I did a while back but just got 403 errors on the page), if that is what they are claiming then sadly they are doing a great disservice to their audience.  Anyone that has ever actually used/installed SecuROM DRM and this, and is reasonably impartial in their assesment (ie. is not jumping to conclusion because they see the word 'securom' on the pop up) should be able to clearly tell the two things apart - and appreciate how far apart they actually are.


Incidentally, since the game is now unlocked world wide, everyone should have this auto-removed already anyway.

In any case, if you are still concerned about the files left behind in the temp folder, then either clear out your temp folder or let me know and I'll dig them up once back in the office and provide the file by file names so you can manually delete these.  (Worth noting that if we were actually using Securom DRM, this would not be possible to do).

F.

So, what is it that makes SecuROM DRM so dreadful? 

[GreyLord]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Bioware lied about the copy protection.

Before the release Bioware specifically said that Securerom would not be used and that no copy protection will be installed on your PC.
And now it came out that DA2 uses a Securerom derivate which leaves regestry entries on your machine. The use of Secureom is (must?) normally be mentioned on the package and EULA, but it isn't.

(german)
http://www.gamestar....73,2321577.html

WRONG

BioWare clears up the FALSE SecuROM rumors

Actually, that's a falsehood in and of itself.

Securom is not a single type of program in and of itself.  Certain types have taken a notoriety over time, but Securom is more a set of security protocols made by specific companies for game protection.  It has gone from everything from simple disk checks with the program, to a program which opens up the computer to online attacks.

Technically, since it uses the same protocols for some of the release control, though different from the more notorious Securom (at the moment at least, tomorrow there will be some other more restrictive or alternate version of Securom) it is technically, a Securom program. 

In some ways it is less intrusive then some of the ones in the past that checked to ensure the right items were on the disk, but slowed the drive down itself (according to some), but at the same time more intrusive then some of the other "NON-Securerom" series that were actually Securom, but only really did a disk check.

This form of Securom DOES have the signature Securom items of leaving stuff on your computer however...and is detected as Securom.  I feel that it's sort of like saying...Pirates of Carribean isn't a Disney movie because it's not a Cartoon.  Sure...it doesn't have the same items overall...but it's still the basic root control.

However, it doesn't bother me.  I had my question answered on a Sunset policy and found that though BW says they have one, there appears to be none.  So I bought my PS3 version and played DA2.  No problem.

I would normally buy the PC version as well...but BW lost that sale.  That's not a problem either.  I don't have a gripe with their security protocol, it was their choice...or more like EA's choice.  I know plenty seem happy with it, especially because it does away with disk checks (personally I prefer disk checks to online activation, I would have bought one with disk checks, but will not buy one with online activation).  They prefer this method, and more power to them.

I think that if you have a console and a PC, if the DRM/Securom issue disturbs you, it's easy enough to side step the issue by doing as I did and simply play it on Console.

BW pleased plenty of customers by doing the no disk in drive with a one time activation.  In truth BW didn't really lie...as it's NOT the expected SecuRom normally in use, but a down faded version of it that is overall non-intrusive....so more like a non-truth (which some would call a lie...but it's not really an out and out lie).  More likely BW was told there was no SecuRom on it by EA...and it was EA that actually put the security protocols on the disk.  Much more disturbing is the callousness that BW has reacted towards the SecuRom debacle of using the SecuRom protocols in the release control as well as the unwanted files left on the computer.

As I said however, for me, it's a non-issue.  Once I knew of their sunset policy (they say they will, but apparantly non really exists) and what they were using, it was already apparant that the PC version wasn't what I was getting.  I played it on the PS3...and they got at least one sale from me that way.

Hopefully those who continue to have problems with the DRM issues on the PC get them cleared up, but if you have it already cleared up, hopefully just play the game and stop worrying about things in the past. 

Let's just hope that in the future they don't do this type of thing again (but knowing EA...they will.  At least they aren't Ubisoft yet).

[Mihai Hornet]

Connect wrote...

Stop with this catastrophic online-based DRM and get back to DISC CHECKS for Mass Effect 3. Everyone was happy with Mass Effect 2 and its implementation. Disc check for retail, with the possibility to register the key with EADM in case of disc breaking.

I agree. EA should take example from CD Projekt and The Witcher 2, released free of any DRM on gog.com. I wouldn't ask that much from EA but disk check is fine for me.

[WanderingIdler]

DocRemo wrote...

So if the insidious DRM known as SecuRom is present after installing DA2, just where EXACTLY is the executable file that launches the program?...I suggest that you refrain from corrupting these forums with your mindless speculations.

DocRemo, you made exactly the same post here and received a response. It is considered bad manners to spam any forum with identical posts in multiple threads as it results in wasted effort (and divided discussions) for anyone offering a response. Thank you for your future consideration...

Sen4lifE wrote...

So, what is it that makes SecuROM DRM so dreadful? 

As others have commented, this type of DRM carries the increasing likelihood of preventing legitimately purchased games from working in future (especially once no more sales of DA2 are made, making existing installations a liability needing continued expense on server maintenance, bandwidth and technical support).

There is also an element of deception in Bioware's past statements on this, on two fronts in particular:

Chris Priestly wrote...

...Release Control is simply a technology that involves a one-time startup check with a server to confirm that official street date for the game has passed. Once the street date has passed and the check is done, this software is removed.

This has been demonstrated as false, since the check involves EA account verification (as confirmed by Vware's account suspension which would not have been possible with a simple date check - it's also confirmation of an EA policy announced back in 2008). In addition, a straightforward date check does not need online activation with a third party (Sony DADC here) but could be done by checking the system date and confirming it (if online) via a Network Time Protocol server - there are hundreds of these available worldwide so using them would not only offer a more resilient system, but one that would not require payment by EA/Bioware (such a system could be bypassed but then so can online activation).

The fact that EA/Bioware have chosen the more expensive option should indicate that they expect to gain something above and beyond a simple date check - and for their purposes this Release Control allows them to kill the second-hand games market as well as punish those who post things Stanley Woo doesn't like. 

Chris Priestly wrote...

Release Control’s sole purpose is to protect software until its street date, by doing an online server check on initial game startup to confirm the street date has passed, at which point it removes itself.

Aside from Release Control having other purposes as noted above - there is another check involved. Each time the Dragon Age 2 executable is started, it will do a system check to confirm that the system it is running on has not changed "significantly" from the one it was activated on. This is a necessary feature of all online activation systems in order to prevent a game installed and activated on PC1 from being copied en-masse to PCs 2, 3 and 4 (and is noted in SecuROM's FAQ 2.17).

This means that even once installed, activated and working, re-activation may still be required if a "significant" hardware change is detected - SecuROM themselves do not document what hardware is checked but this article on Windows Product Activation should offer an insight as to how in-depth such a check could be.

Aside from that, this whole affair seems like a farcial renaming exercise by both Sony DADC and EA/Bioware. However it is one that can succeed if people get hung up over the SecuROM name - it is not the label that matters, it is what checks are carried out and their dependence on resources that may not be around in a couple of years' time. Shamus Young has an excellent Authorization Servers article pointing out the problems and I would recommend that everyone, whether pro- or anti-EA on this, take the time to check it out...

[Crash_7]

WanderingIdler wrote...

*snip*

  Lots of good stuff

...

Thank you.  Your response to a fellow user had several informative links.  It always saddens me a little when I witness the successful manipulation of public opinion; regardless of its source.  EA/Bioware, to me, do come across as having attempted to control the public reception of Dragon Age 2's DRM scheme, and not in a positive way.

[Kloreep]

WanderingIdler wrote...

This means that even once installed, activated and working, re-activation may still be required if a "significant" hardware change is detected - SecuROM themselves do not document what hardware is checked but this article on Windows Product Activation should offer an insight as to how in-depth such a check could be.

Woah, are you saying that you can confirm this is how DA2 behaves? Because everyone who's checked it out so far, including RYG, did not find any SecuROM traces on the DA2 executable after going through the Release Control.

Mind you, I suppose it's a somewhat academic difference, since that's only if you change hardware while the OS & software are still installed. What Bioware really needs to do is remove the RC completely via patch. I can't imagine it has much value this far past the release date.

[Kloreep]

WanderingIdler wrote...

There is also an element of deception in Bioware's past statements on this, on two fronts in particular:

Chris Priestly wrote...

...Release Control is simply a technology that involves a one-time startup check with a server to confirm that official street date for the game has passed. Once the street date has passed and the check is done, this software is removed.

This has been demonstrated as false, since the check involves EA account verification (as confirmed by Vware's account suspension which would not have been possible with a simple date check - it's also confirmation of an EA policy announced back in 2008).

How has that statement been demonstrated as false? You quote Chris' statement about RC, and that quote is true as far as I know. (Depending, of course, on what your definition of "removed" is. As has been discussed to death in these threads, registry entries, or trash left in the temp folder, apparently count for some people.)

DA2 does have two layers of DRM, yes, the other one being an EA Account layer that remains on the game forever. That was also covered in the same DRM FAQs the RC was announced in, I believe.

[TooTiredToSleep]

To be clear, I was going to preorder DA2 but all the noise about SecuROM stopped me from doing so. Now that I've seen the information presented here, I am confident that I can buy this product without inadvertently installing a rootkit on my machine. Thank you for clearing this up and for not installing unwanted software on my PC.

[WanderingIdler]

Kloreep wrote...

Woah, are you saying that you can confirm this is how DA2 behaves? Because everyone who's checked it out so far, including RYG, did not find any SecuROM traces on the DA2 executable after going through the Release Control.

I've not bought DA2 but have no need to here - it should be obvious since not including a system hardware check would make DA2 effectively DRM-free post-activation with users able to copy it at will or upload it to the file-sharing site of their choice. You see EA/Sony making a slip-up like that? The SecuROM FAQ item I linked to previously is further confirmation, for those who took the time to read it.

To be fair, this will apply to every online activation system (including Valve's Steam, Stardock's Impulse, Gamersgate and Direct2Drive) so it isn't SecuROM online specific, but it is another factor against such DRM, since it isn't possible to predict when re-activation may be required. Just changing the way the disks are connected on your system (and hence their drive letter assignments) could be a trigger as could a partition change or a RAM upgrade.

Anyone wanting verification of this can do so by copying all the files and registry entries to another PC and seeing what happens when DA2 is run while that PC is offline. In the case of Stardock's DRM (which I had the misfortune to encounter after applying a patch to GalCiv 2), the data is held in a file named sig.bin so renaming this (or altering its contents after making a backup copy) will trigger a re-activation prompt also, if offline.

Kloreep wrote...

Mind you, I suppose it's a somewhat academic difference, since that's only if you change hardware while the OS & software are still installed. What Bioware really needs to do is remove the RC completely via patch. I can't imagine it has much value this far past the release date.

If the DRM was solely intended to control pre-release usage, then it would indeed be valueless now. You can judge EA/Bioware's true intentions on this by seeing how long they maintain it - though since the 2008 release Spore still needs it, the likelihood of a change isn't great in my view.

It is also worth noting that a patch alone couldn't remove the online activation requirement - the code is in the installer (which will be permanent for those with a DVD version of DA2) so a replacement installer would have to be supplied along with an updated .exe to skip subsequent hardware checks.

Kloreep wrote...

How has that statement been demonstrated as false? You quote Chris' statement about RC, and that quote is true as far as I know. (Depending, of course, on what your definition of "removed" is...

The key word in Chris' statement is "simply". As we have seen, the check does involve the date but it also includes EA account status - so anyone banned from these forums finds themselves unable to install the game again (there was a thread started by Tez20 on this which appears to have been removed by the mods, subsequently discussed here). Then there is also the component that checks hardware every time DA2 is run, though I suspect EA/Bioware may try to relabel that as something else.

Modifié par WanderingIdler, 20 mars 2011 - 08:34 .

[Kloreep]

WanderingIdler wrote...

I've not bought DA2 but have no need to here - it should be obvious since not including a system hardware check would make DA2 effectively DRM-free post-activation with users able to copy it at will or upload it to the file-sharing site of their choice. You see EA/Sony making a slip-up like that? The SecuROM FAQ item I linked to previously is further confirmation, for those who took the time to read it.

Again: DA2 had two forms of DRM applied. The Sony DADC/SecuROM release check, which is indeed removed, and so is not going to be doing a system scan every time because it won't be there to. And then there is EA's own EA Account-based DRM. You are probably correct that the EA DRM has some way of trying to judge if it's
been moved between computers.

I was specifically responding to the part of your post where you quoted Chris, who posted the FAQ item about how the RC removes itself after a succesful activation, and then stated that that point "been demonstrated as false." That quote from Chris has not been demonstrated as false. It is a statement about the RC DRM alone, which is indeed removed after a successful run. Even in the portion you quote, it is clear the subject is "Release Control," not "all DRM on Dragon Age 2." In the full FAQ post, this is made even clearer by its placement under a "Release Control (non-Steam versions)" heading following headings for the other kinds of DRM used.

Anyway, I feel silly posting this much about such a minor point. But the fact is, it was never stated that the EA DRM would be removed at any point, much as I wish they would give us an actual sunset plan.

WanderingIdler wrote...

It is also worth noting that a patch alone couldn't remove the online activation requirement - the code is in the installer (which will be permanent for those with a DVD version of DA2) so a replacement installer would have to be supplied along with an updated .exe to skip subsequent hardware checks.

As I think has been discussed in the other thread, the RC check is run the first time you try to run the game, not during installation. People who buy the first disc pressing are indeed going to have to be careful if it's important to them not to go through the RC, but the patch should be adequate if they use it before ever running the game.

[WanderingIdler]

Kloreep wrote...

Again: DA2 had two forms of DRM applied. The Sony DADC/SecuROM release check, which is indeed removed, and so is not going to be doing a system scan every time because it won't be there to. And then there is EA's own EA Account-based DRM.

Sorry, but where has it been said that the DADC/SecuROM release check had been removed? Seifz confirmed in the other DRM thread that an online check was still needed and the only thing the patch notes say is that it was "amended". It may clear up after itself better but as long as it is needed, there will always be the risk of failure (and blocked installs) should SecuROM or its servers go offline.

Kloreep wrote...

I was specifically responding to the part of your post where you quoted Chris, who posted the FAQ item...it is clear the subject is "Release Control," not "all DRM on Dragon Age 2." In the full FAQ post, this is made even clearer by its placement under a "Release Control (non-Steam versions)" heading following headings for the other kinds of DRM used.

Reviewing Chris' post I can see that my comments should have been on the first section: "After each new install there is a 1-time online check needed the next time you play, requiring a log in to your EA account to verify game ownership" (some confusion on my part with Chris' other post which only detailed Release Control). As such I do withdraw my specific criticism of Chris' post but the objections I have raised about this DRM generally and its implementation in DA2 still remain. It would appear that the most objectionable part is EA's check-on-first-run account verification and it is this which has been used to deprive some game owners of the product they paid for.

Kloreep wrote...

Anyway, I feel silly posting this much about such a minor point. But the fact is, it was never stated that the EA DRM would be removed at any point, much as I wish they would give us an actual sunset plan.

No need to feel silly - it's worth getting the details absolutely correct. After all, who would want to be confused about the exact name of a poison they'd just swallowed?

Kloreep wrote...

As I think has been discussed in the other thread, the RC check is run the first time you try to run the game, not during installation. People who buy the first disc pressing are indeed going to have to be careful if it's important to them not to go through the RC, but the patch should be adequate if they use it before ever running the game.

I'm not sure that has been verified - Seifz has been able to confirm the clean-up of registry entries and temp files but that alone is not confirmation of the check being removed. An examination of the network traffic sent out (specifically to see if anything was sent to SecuROM's servers) would be needed to do this.

What he has been able to confirm is that the checks are done on first-run (and not install which I incorrectly assumed) so removing them should be easier, if EA ever choose to bother.

[didymos1120]

WanderingIdler wrote...
An examination of the network traffic sent out (specifically to see if anything was sent to SecuROM's servers) would be needed to do this.

Doing so is trivial.  Just install MS Network Monitor.  For the lazy: no, it doesn't contact any Securom server.